Mini 810: Infection! Mini - Game over!

[Kid Know Nothing]

The problem comes from you assuming that someone is a "misguided townie." Yes, you can read into things such as status and motivation. But when it comes down to it, you can't really rely on that to be an indicator of town. Newbie scum could just as easily have proposed the same plan. The motivation goes both ways.

You become a good mafia player when you can rely on small things being indicator of town. Ive done this every game.

Why exactly does this make me suspicious?

Do you think that people that also dont find scummy motivations on Paperpeguin proposal are also scum?

No, I don't if they have more reasoning to back it up. However, assuming hurts the town and thats why I'm suspicious of you. Originally, the way you calling for the lynch of FA worried me. I had seen little in the way of a case from you but you already seemed sure. You still do, he's "obvscum" correct?

Please answer my question; why is he obv. scum?

[Xylthixlm]

Day 1 Vote Count

Mokina -

2

(Kelly Chen, Battle Mage)
veerus -

2

(Rally Vincent, Shotty to the Body)
fallen angel -

2

(populartajo, Kise)
Kise -

2

(fallen angel, charter)
populartajo -

1

(Kid Know Nothing)
Rally Vincent -

1

(veerus)

Not voting: malthusis, Mokina
With 12 alive it will take 7 to lynch

Deadline: July 21

[Mokina]

Mokina, do you think anybody is scummy? Since you unvoted Kid I don't see any concrete suspicions except once of BM; do you think he's scummy or do you just want him to start posting again? I'm looking at your last post of course.

What do you think of BM, Kelly? Lurkish town or lurkish scum?

I don't want to lynch lazy townies ... and on the other side of the coin, I don't want to pass up on scum just because there aren't any quotes. BM's rare, single-sentence posts bother me, but in the end they're not an actual alignment tell. All very well to cite meta and say that "BM-scum lurks hardcore," but without any regular posts to go on, I can neither confirm my suspicions nor lay them to rest.

So yes, I'd love to see him posting again.

[Kise]

Well, for what it's worth, Tajo, I have no clue what the hell PP was talking about when he said all vanillas should commit suicide. Like, was he trying to round up the power roles by separating them from those who claimed VT?

Help me for personal knowledge. Is there a suicide-mechanic in this game?

[Kid Know Nothing]

No. There is no suicide-mechanic in this game. To my knowledge at least.

[Kise]

Ok, so PP wanted to narrow down who was vanilla and who was 'other' by massclaim?

[Kid Know Nothing]

I think he wanted people to be mass modkilled. But I don't know. And really there isn't a point to discussing it in my eyes.

[fallen angel]

I think he wanted people to be mass modkilled. But I don't know. And really there isn't a point to discussing it in my eyes.

This. His suggestion was for all the plain ole' vanillas to die, making it easier for the guard to vig the scum. It seems impossible, would probably lose the game anyway, and isn't worth discussing as he isn't even here to provide reasoning anymore.

[Kise]

He wasn't misguided townie then. He was simply...



For what it's worth, BM is catching up in another game of ours.

[charter]

I am pretty sure Kise is scum. He needs more votes. Incidentally, we need to stop with this two votes on everyone bs, or else nothing is ever going to get done. We need to determine a lynch candidate well before deadline.

[Kise]

Forgot to address this:

I don't think you've interacted with/mentioned half the people here. How can you complain about nothing to discuss when you haven't discussed with a lot of the players in this game?

What is it with you and numbers, seriously? There are a dozen players here and I'm fairly certain I've spoken to a decent amount. Don't try to slap gristle onto your case. Meat, or GTFO.

The players I haven't [directly] spoken to gave me no reason to spark a convo that would expose them as possible-scum. Kelly & KKN were trying to understand what the other was saying. I had no reason to get in-between that. Others are having discussions with each other in order to understand the other person's independent mindset. Is there a particular reason I should feel contrived to corroborate others? I'm already having exchanges with others, you included. Scum aren't great in number, and I've got FA & veerus in my sights, so I have no reason to unjustly instigate anyone else if I feel like those 2 are the Infected.

[Rally Vincent]

Tajo

- are you going to answer my question?

Rally, I think you are scum for your relation with fallen angel, which I think is very obvscum. It seems that you and fallen are growing suspicions together. You even admitted that some of your reasoning are very similar.

I also dislike your push of the veerus situation. Do you still think he is prob scum?

What do you think of the others?

Why don't you like that I want someone I think is scum to be lynched? What has veerus done that would change my mind? Maybe you missed it, as you always reduce me on voting veerus for a "plan scum would not come up with" so he's town. I voted veerus not for his NL plan only, but for his intention to not have day 1 discussion. Again, he vouched NL, which I take as a discussion killer. veerus said discussion could still occur, but he did his best to not be involved in any. I only see scum wanting to have no discussion on Day 1 when we have the starting positions. Tajo, take the NL aside and tell me if veerus is town with what he has actually done in this game. Did he hunt scum by your standards?

[charter]

Forgot to address this:

I don't think you've interacted with/mentioned half the people here. How can you complain about nothing to discuss when you haven't discussed with a lot of the players in this game?

What is it with you and numbers, seriously? There are a dozen players here and I'm fairly certain I've spoken to a decent amount. Don't try to slap gristle onto your case. Meat, or GTFO.

The players I haven't [directly] spoken to gave me no reason to spark a convo that would expose them as possible-scum. Kelly & KKN were trying to understand what the other was saying. I had no reason to get in-between that. Others are having discussions with each other in order to understand the other person's independent mindset. Is there a particular reason I should feel contrived to corroborate others? I'm already having exchanges with others, you included. Scum aren't great in number, and I've got FA & veerus in my sights, so I have no reason to unjustly instigate anyone else if I feel like those 2 are the Infected.

The numbers don't mean anything, it's the fact that you're posting about there being nothing to do, when there is stuff to do. It's active lurking.

[populartajo]

The problem comes from you assuming that someone is a "misguided townie." Yes, you can read into things such as status and motivation. But when it comes down to it, you can't really rely on that to be an indicator of town. Newbie scum could just as easily have proposed the same plan. The motivation goes both ways.

You become a good mafia player when you can rely on small things being indicator of town. Ive done this every game.

Why exactly does this make me suspicious?

Do you think that people that also dont find scummy motivations on Paperpeguin proposal are also scum?

No, I don't if they have more reasoning to back it up. However, assuming hurts the town and thats why I'm suspicious of you. Originally, the way you calling for the lynch of FA worried me. I had seen little in the way of a case from you but you already seemed sure. You still do, he's "obvscum" correct?

Please answer my question; why is he obv. scum?

Ive told you. I see scum do all the time what fallen did in this game. Going for an easy target that is at first glance scummy. I can give you links if you want. In those games, I was also attacked for assuming someone was town. Guess not all share my deductive powers. Or they are scum.

Now, answer the questions:

What is so scummy in thinking that someone is prob town?

Do you think that people that also dont find scummy motivations on Paperpeguin proposal are also scum? You said no, if they have more reasoning to back it up. I also do have my reasoning. Why is my reasoning scummy?

Do you think paper penguin is scum? Do you think fallen angel is town?

[populartajo]

Tajo

- are you going to answer my question?

Rally, I think you are scum for your relation with fallen angel, which I think is very obvscum. It seems that you and fallen are growing suspicions together. You even admitted that some of your reasoning are very similar.

I also dislike your push of the veerus situation. Do you still think he is prob scum?

What do you think of the others?

Why don't you like that I want someone I think is scum to be lynched? What has veerus done that would change my mind? Maybe you missed it, as you always reduce me on voting veerus for a "plan scum would not come up with" so he's town. I voted veerus not for his NL plan only, but for his intention to not have day 1 discussion. Again, he vouched NL, which I take as a discussion killer. veerus said discussion could still occur, but he did his best to not be involved in any. I only see scum wanting to have no discussion on Day 1 when we have the starting positions. Tajo, take the NL aside and tell me if veerus is town with what he has actually done in this game. Did he hunt scum by your standards?

No.

I think its pretty clear how I play this game. Not all townies in this game are excellent scumhunters or excellent debaters. But there is something that cant be faked. Yes (its starting to get repetitive) the motivation to do things.

Veerus and paperpeguin both proposed things that at first glance look scummy but as you deeply analyse them, they become just bad ideas.

Ill give you something to analyse. Besides your veerus hate, what else have you actually done in this game?

[Kid Know Nothing]

The problem comes from you assuming that someone is a "misguided townie." Yes, you can read into things such as status and motivation. But when it comes down to it, you can't really rely on that to be an indicator of town. Newbie scum could just as easily have proposed the same plan. The motivation goes both ways.

You become a good mafia player when you can rely on small things being indicator of town. Ive done this every game.

Why exactly does this make me suspicious?

Do you think that people that also dont find scummy motivations on Paperpeguin proposal are also scum?

No, I don't if they have more reasoning to back it up. However, assuming hurts the town and thats why I'm suspicious of you. Originally, the way you calling for the lynch of FA worried me. I had seen little in the way of a case from you but you already seemed sure. You still do, he's "obvscum" correct?

Please answer my question; why is he obv. scum?

Ive told you. I see scum do all the time what fallen did in this game. Going for an easy target that is at first glance scummy. I can give you links if you want. In those games, I was also attacked for assuming someone was town. Guess not all share my deductive powers. Or they are scum.

Now, answer the questions:

What is so scummy in thinking that someone is prob town?

Do you think that people that also dont find scummy motivations on Paperpeguin proposal are also scum? You said no, if they have more reasoning to back it up. I also do have my reasoning. Why is my reasoning scummy?

Do you think paper penguin is scum? Do you think fallen angel is town?

So your only reasoning is his vote?

And I never said thinking someone was prob. town was scummy. I said Town Lists hurt the town. If you think someone is town, it's better to keep it to yourself then say it out loud. Saying who you think is town just helps the scum manipulate you. Especially in this game.

You would think someone of your... deductive skills would be able to deduce that.

And we've been over why your reasoning is scummy, it assumes that someone is town. Tell me why a good townie should ever assume someone is town. Giving me "Its an experience" is a lame excuse, if you want someone lynched you should be able to back up your reasoning with more than what is essentially gut feeling.

Do I think PP is scum? He wasn't in the game long enough for me to say. And Kise has barely said anything, which itself speaks volumes. I've already said before that I've got my eye on Kise.

Is FA town? The second time this game; In my eyes, no one is town until proven otherwise.

[populartajo]

Tell me why a good townie should ever assume someone is town.

You really have no idea how to play this game, do you?

Giving me "Its an experience" is a lame excuse, if you want someone lynched you should be able to back up your reasoning with more than what is essentially gut feeling.

You are being obnoxious on purpose? My reasoning is more than gut feeling. Voting for an easy target its a freaking scumtell, ffs. Scum do it ALL the time.

Do I think PP is scum? He wasn't in the game long enough for me to say

Tell me then why fallen angel thought it deserved a vote.

[fallen angel]

Ok, going V/LA. Good luck, I'll hopefully have some good stuff to post when I get back.

[Kid Know Nothing]

Tell me why a good townie should ever assume someone is town.

You really have no idea how to play this game, do you?

Giving me "Its an experience" is a lame excuse, if you want someone lynched you should be able to back up your reasoning with more than what is essentially gut feeling.

You are being obnoxious on purpose? My reasoning is more than gut feeling. Voting for an easy target its a freaking scumtell, ffs. Scum do it ALL the time.

Do I think PP is scum? He wasn't in the game long enough for me to say

Tell me then why fallen angel thought it deserved a vote.

I'm being obnoxious? You might want to re-read your posts sometime and count how many times you are overly condescending. I can point that out, but there's no real point in it.

And I don't answer for FA, as such a great player I would think you would know that. I'm not defending FA's vote, something I've already said. I'm attacking you because I find you scummy.

[Shotty to the Body]

Shotty, is veerus the lynch?

Very possibly, I'm leaning towards him or FA, though I nee to reread Charter's posts about Kise. I'm coming home from vacation tomorrow I'll be writing up a more thoughtful post then.

[Rally Vincent]

No.

I think its pretty clear how I play this game. Not all townies in this game are excellent scumhunters or excellent debaters. But there is something that cant be faked. Yes (its starting to get repetitive) the motivation to do things.

Veerus and paperpeguin both proposed things that at first glance look scummy but as you deeply analyse them, they become just bad ideas.

Ill give you something to analyse. Besides your veerus hate, what else have you actually done in this game?

And that's where I disagree with you. I may be repeating myself as much as you do, but I fail to see any town motivation in veerus' plan. Now, let's take a look why you see a town motivation:

Upon re-reading the infected role, do the scum

have

to infect someone at night? How do the previous theories hold up if the scum just let the town lynch each other without bothering to infect anyone?

I think it makes more sense to vote no-lynch and let the security guard & scientist roles shoot it out with the scum at night.

This way we don't risk accidentally lynching those roles and we don't force them to claim and out themselves either.

When you consider the fact that there are test subjects in the mix who may or may not be infected, I must say I like our chances.

unvote; vote: no lynch

There you go, the motivation at bold.

The bolded part is more or less something I would expect town not to say in a game like that. Which mafia game does not bear the chance of "accidently" lynching a Power Role? Day 1 is in no matter different then any other Mafia Game - in fact, it's the only Day that gives us the oppurtunity of collecting information with the original alignments. And while NL won't "force a PR to claim", it is perfect for scum as they won't be in need to avoid slipping. This whole plan favors scum so much more then it would be beneficial for town. You get it as town-motivated - fine, but I don't. And I will push a lynch on someone who is sending scum vibes.

I already said that it's something different with PP's plan, and I understand your approach. Still, I am not voting veerus for his plan alone as you assume, but also for his contradictive behavior, which is exactly what I think you are ignoring. I'm not an excellent scumhunter nor debater myself, as you call it, but at least I tried.

As for what else I've done: I contributed to the game mechanics discussion, commented on FA vs PP. And I thought about how much truth is in what PP said here:

I agree, where is the rest of the town? =P

Trying as hard as possible not to get lynched. This game is strange in that people want to be NKed.

I'm afraid the truth isn't that far away. I admit I have difficulties reading the others. We're all either circling around the same "You're scum" - "NO U" - not just us two, but the others as well. I think I'll have better insight when I see who gets lynched and who'll die at night.

But this is what I've got so far:

FA: Already commented on him. Possible scum.

Mokina: still neutral, but: With the votes spread evenly, this gives a great oppurtunity to get things going with voting the players she finds scummy. Why?

Malthusis: Likely scum. I didn't realize that he didn't do much either. He's totally flying under the radar. Almost no content, just a few tiny posts about FA. But, not voting, not even FA. I could go with a malthusis lynch if veerus gets no majority.

BM: I did get some town vibes from him in the early stage, but I don't like his abscence. Will have better insight after he posted.

Kise: Considering FA possible scum with PP more likely town, Kise is town.

charter: Neutral. I think he's on the wrong track with Kise, but it looks genuine. What I don't like about charter are his comments about veerus (obviously).

Kelly Chen: Can't read her that good, but I like her attention on malthusis. IIRC, she's the only one (or did anyone else point him out?). So I'd say rather town.

Tajo: I'd see him rather leaning town, but: if veerus somehow turns to be town, and PP/Kise too, he'd have a pretty nice position as scum defending those two.

Shotty: Neutral, with rather town. Of course I like his vote on veerus, but I got some mixed vibes from him, especially over why he unvoted BM.

KKN: neutral. I don't agree with what he said about PP's plan; I don't agree with "town lists hurt town". But I can see why he questions Tajo; I think both are either misunderstanding each other. Tajo makes a good point with this, though:

Do I think PP is scum? He wasn't in the game long enough for me to say

Tell me then why fallen angel thought it deserved a vote.

[Kelly Chen]

It's going to storm here I think, but a couple of quick posts.

Mokina, do you think anybody is scummy? Since you unvoted Kid I don't see any concrete suspicions except once of BM; do you think he's scummy or do you just want him to start posting again? I'm looking at your last post of course.

What do you think of BM, Kelly? Lurkish town or lurkish scum?

I liked BM, but I'm starting to be able to see him as scum who got worn out pretty quickly playing good townie. This disappoints me for a reason you can probably guess.

Alright so now here's your opinion on BM:

I don't want to lynch lazy townies ... and on the other side of the coin, I don't want to pass up on scum just because there aren't any quotes. BM's rare, single-sentence posts bother me, but in the end they're not an actual alignment tell. All very well to cite meta and say that "BM-scum lurks hardcore," but without any regular posts to go on, I can neither confirm my suspicions nor lay them to rest.

So yes, I'd love to see him posting again.

Alright, so pretty meh, but still, is anybody

else

in this game scummy to you?

I find it bizarre that I ask you if anybody is scummy here, and you not only don't answer, you ask me if I think BM is being scummy.

Is there something about your playstyle that someone could fill me in on?

[Kelly Chen]

I'd have to say I actually don't have a very good feeling about PP/Kise.

why?

I don't think I can answer this very well. Just from their posts I don't have any feeling that they're more likely town than scum. That makes me more reluctant to focus on fallen.

Really if anything, looking over Paper's entire oeuvre, my gut wants to say "incompetent flaking newb scum" more than "incompetent flaking newb town."

I give fallen no credit for that though, because it doesn't look like he considered anything other than Paper's last post, which on its own does not reek in my opinion.

I wonder about this comment:

I agree, where is the rest of the town? =P

Trying as hard as possible not to get lynched. This game is strange in that people want to be NKed.

I wonder what line of thought led to this. Maybe I just haven't thought about this setup hard enough. I think just Shotty and Mokina responded to this comment but not very directly.

[Kise]

V/LA starting tomorrow, up until sometime Monday.

[populartajo]

Tell me why a good townie should ever assume someone is town.

You really have no idea how to play this game, do you?

Giving me "Its an experience" is a lame excuse, if you want someone lynched you should be able to back up your reasoning with more than what is essentially gut feeling.

You are being obnoxious on purpose? My reasoning is more than gut feeling. Voting for an easy target its a freaking scumtell, ffs. Scum do it ALL the time.

Do I think PP is scum? He wasn't in the game long enough for me to say

Tell me then why fallen angel thought it deserved a vote.

I'm being obnoxious? You might want to re-read your posts sometime and count how many times you are overly condescending. I can point that out, but there's no real point in it.

And I don't answer for FA, as such a great player I would think you would know that. I'm not defending FA's vote, something I've already said. I'm attacking you because I find you scummy.

You find me scummy because:

a)I think paperperguin is prob town. I gave my reasons. You are free to disagree with me and others. Assuming someone is prob town for scumhunting purposes is not scummy AT ALL.

b)I think fallen angel is prob scum. I gave my reasons. You are free to disagree with me and others.

There is something I am missing. How the hell am I scummy for doing what I am doing?