Mini 809 ~ Mafia ViPod (Game Over!)

[VP Baltar]

I can't believe you don't remember Right Said Fred, EK. I love the SNL skit where Conan O'Brien plays one of the guys.

On a serious note, I want to hear from Moriarty (hopefully) before anyone hammers.

[Sotty7]

I can't believe you don't remember right said Fred maybe they weren't as big over seas as they were/are in England. They had a couple of hits nothing huge past those two records.

Emp's claim doesn't really inspire me either way. I still think Juls is a better lynch at this point.

[Juls]

Finished my read...I still have to put it in a coherant post. Expect my post within the next couple hours.

unvote

So no one hammers before my post.

[Vi]

He stands like a statue, becomes part of the machine
Feeling all the bumpers, always playing clean
He plays by intuition, the digit counters fall--
That deaf, dumb and blind kid sure plays a mean pinball!

Vote Count XXIV:

How do you think he does it? (I don't know!)

Empking (L-2) ~ forbiddanlight, elvis_knits, X,

Juls,

tubby216

Juls (L-3) ~ VP Baltar, Sotty7, Empking
image (L-5) ~ hasdgfas

Minimum (L-6)

Not Voting:

image,

Moriarty147

, Juls
[size=0]image 0 PROD1 5 PROD1 1 | e_knits 0 | Empking 0 | f-light 2 | hascow 0 | Juls 0 | tubby 0 PROD1 2 | Mo 4 PROD0 1 | Sotty7 0 PROD1 1 | VP Baltar 1 | X 0 PROD1 1[/size]

-Prodding the System Reboot button near Moriarty147...

Battery Power:

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(26%)

[Juls]

My notes are organized by players and some of it may be redundant but I did a fresh reread so I apologize. I have at least a few notes on everyone but I am only going to hit the big notes being that we are so close to deadline. This has also taken me a bit longer than I had hoped because midway through my daughter has decided to test my patience so I have had to show her who is boss.

elvis_knits

My initial impression of ek was town. I didn't have a problem with her attack on VP. It felt genuine. But there are some things I started noticing later.

Anyway, I see a possible connection between image and X, and also a connection between pesco and juls. Also FL possible connection to pesco/juls, for similar reasons as I see juls with pesco. This is sort of unimportant until one of these people pops up scum. I don't present it as evidence against any of them, but just for later use if it becomes pertinent.

Just to condence this post ek says Pesco/Tubby, image, X, FL, Juls are possible scum. She says it isn't "evidence" but seriously come on...thats 5 of 11 possible players she sees as scum. I have further problems with the fact that Empking and VP aren't on this list and they are high on mine.

If he didn't have anything to hide, he should have said backstreet boys from the beginning, and also should have put his lyrics up when asked for flavor. Anyway, it's done now.

What would lyrics have changed?

====================================

Empking

I didn't really make any new notes on Empking in this read. I still find his actions to be begging for a lynch. But I do want to explain my position on Jesters.

I have been in very few games where the mod explicitly states there may be a Jester in the game. Therefore I am keeping it in the back of my head. That said, I have never been in a game where there actually was a jester. So when people are telling me it is ok to lynch a jester and nobody seems to have a problem with this, I will defer to the general opinion until I get more experience with it. Same with playing Miller. I have been miller twice now and I now feel confident I could play it better if I received the role again. If Empking does turn out to be Jester (or anyone does) in this game I will take a lessons learned out of this to ignore Jesters in general and if I suspect someone is then just lynch them. I still don't agree with it but why stick my neck out there and have people think I am scum because I like my team to be the sole-winner. That will just distract us from winning because attention will be on me. So that was my thought process and why I went back to voting Empking.

I see Empking has claimed Right Said Fred. I am indifferent to this claim. I am not really sure flavor is telling us anything in this game.

====================================

Forbiddanlight

Much like ek, FL lists 5 suspects in one post in post 209. Four she wants to vig and one that some how falls second on her lynch list. Not sure I understand that. Why does someone deserve a lynch but not a vig kill? How does one obtain that status?


====================================

X

FL shouldn't have voted Empking that early, considering how Empking usually is.

This whole arguement that X and ek (and possibly others?) are trying to put out that Empking is always scummy therefore he should be ignored is ridiculous. I think FL said it and I agree that even people who are generally scummy players roll scum sometimes and Empking seems to be worse than usual this game.

====================================

VP Baltar

Saved the best for last...

On the topic of slow activity, however, I would move that the scum would be going especially out of their way to lurk in this game since it would actually have an effect upon the deadline. To that end, I move that lurking not be tolerated in the slightest for this game.

One of your first serious posts. This seems like an attempt to appear townie. However, I can't really see you taking a hard stance on lurking after this.

I didn't say it was good logic to softclaim on D1. Also, I didn't know asking a couple questions to better understand someone's reasoning and to actually get the game moving in an actual direction is considered "pushing it so hard".

Explain how I forced others to talk about it? I never asked for anyone else's opinion on the matter. In fact, you're the one who continues to bring it up after I've answered your questions for nearly two pages to the point where you are asking the same questions again. Does that mean you are now trying to get people to "give more information about who might be power roles and who might not be"?

In rereading the VP/ek arguement I don't see where ek was pushing this fight anymore than VP was. I particularly don't like how VP plays the innocent victim in post 87. Of course you forced people to talk about it the minute you voted has. Most people noticed his comment but you shined a flashlight on it. Of course that is going to start conversation. Further, you contradict yourself. In post 66 you claim that you were getting the game moving and in 87 you act like you didn't invite opinions on the matter.

(I realize I am flipping between 3rd and 2nd person speech here, sorry).

I never said I wanted him lynched as far as I recall. And in fact, once he answered my questions I pulled off of him immediately. I would like you to quote me where I wanted him lynched.

The problem was you left your vote on has while saying you believed that he just wanted an explanation of the rules. Why did you feel the need to let your vote ride there?

Once again, you appear to be trying to have it both ways simultaneously.

This is a misrepresentation of what Pesco was saying. I read what Pesco was saying as there are things that could change his opinion during night but that if we lynch one of you and you flip scum we have a lot to go on by ways of finding links; not necessarily that you two are linked because of it. I realize I said something different on my first read through but I will fully admit that my vote on Pesco was me playing lazy. I had a lot going on during that time. I had my anniversary weekend followed by getting ready for and going on vacation. If I get lynched because of that I will have to accept that but I would rather this be seen as how I felt when paying attention in the event of my untimely death.

So, she's posting frequently and making good posts, but because people aren't following up on what she says you think there is the potential she could be scum?

Another misrepresentation by VP. I don't see anywhere that has says flight could be scum for this. IIRC this was cleared up but this just speaks to the way you are misrepresenting people in this game.

Logic Point, Juls!

This is minor but I have difficulty accepting someone who pays me a compliment in mafiascum as sincere. I immediately see things like this as buddying and makes me suspicious of the person paying the compliment. I felt this way about Vi in Cowboy Bebop briefly.

Hold the phone. I thought Juls had never played with him before or something? If this is true, then Juls definitely needs another look because I think one game with Emp is enough to understand you can't expect any better out of him. Do you know which game this was Sotty?

This just seems so over the top. Really? This changes your opinion that significantly of my comments on Empking D1? You follow with...

I'm a bit torn on you not knowing Emp's meta because, well, that is like someone saying they don't know zwet's meta. These are people who are generally mentioned together and their reputations tend to proceed them in most every game I've seen or played with them in. If you were newer I could understand, but you've been around long enough for me to believe you would have at least heard of Emp and his awful play.

For the record. I am completely aware of his meta. Completely. At no point did I pretend that I was not aware that he tends to be useless and short. But both he and zwets aren't this completely useless all the time. What I see in this game is rebellion and lazy, nonchalant posting. Even shorter than normal. That is why I initially asked about post restrictions. I considered asking him to post a 3-4 paragraph post (not quoted) that he cut and paste from the internet but I know his type and he gets off on pissing people off. I knew my efforts would be futile so I decided not to.

So you are saying that you'd be good with following through with the Emp lynch right now without hesitation?

Anytime VP starts a sentence like this I immediately am suspicious. If you start a sentence with "So you are saying..." it feels like you are setting them up and putting words in their mouth. This example is no exception. FL was making a point that I thought myself during this reread. Why does being a typical scummy player regardless of alignmnet preclude this person from never being scum. No where did FL say that she wants to lynch without hesitation. You are misrepresenting yet again.

Then, when I ask her who her other options would be, she ignores my question. I call her on backing off of emp easily and she is quick to throw her vote back on. Her flipping with the slightest bit of questioning looks scummy to me.

I did not ignore the question. I thought it was pretty clear I was V/LA and was only posting quick short posts. EVERYWHERE on the site, not just here. I simply didn't have the time to do analysis of others at that point. I also explain my switch to Empking earlier in this post (see the Empking section).

Because she could now be trying to distance herself from a townie lynch. Obviously, hypo-scum Juls has already been on one townie lynch and would potentially not want to be on another because late game wagon analysis would implicate her as scum for this.

Does everyone else not see that VP is setting me up as tomorrows lynch no matter WHAT Empking flips? If Empking flips scum, I am his scumbuddy. If Empking flips town, I am trying to distance myself from a townie lynch. Classic.

====================================

Again, I apologize for my admittedly lazy play up to this point. I got a little busier than I expected to. I hope to participate at a stronger level for the duration of the game. For those I didn't mention, like I said, I have some notes on them but this post is pretty long and some may or may not be worth mentioning until there is more to add to it.

My gut tells me to vote VP but I know we are very close to deadline and I still see Empking as scummy. I am going to sleep on it before deciding where to place my vote. I would like to hear other peoples opinions of what I have said before deadline.

mod: is there any mechanism for an

extension

jolt to the battery meter?

The battery meter won't go up.
The deadline, however, extends itself. Remember, activity-based deadlines. ~Vi

TL;DR: Read my post, I spent a lot of time on it!

[VP Baltar]

However, I can't really see you taking a hard stance on lurking after this.

Really? I've been asking people to post when I feel they have been lagging. I don't know what else I can do unless they give me their addresses and I can literally force them to type a post.

Most people noticed his comment but you shined a flashlight on it. Of course that is going to start conversation. Further, you contradict yourself. In post 66 you claim that you were getting the game moving and in 87 you act like you didn't invite opinions on the matter.

It was getting the game going, but saying I forced people to talk about it is BS. If someone thought it was scummy to talk about it then they were welcome to abstain. My main issue was using the word "force" because that is simply trying to scapegoat somebody.

The problem was you left your vote on has while saying you believed that he just wanted an explanation of the rules. Why did you feel the need to let your vote ride there?

Pretty sure this came up already. I guess your reread conveniently skimmed over that part. I like to always have my vote on someone and it certainly wasn't hurting hascow being there. I moved it as soon as I found a better option.

This is a misrepresentation of what Pesco was saying.

No it wasn't. He was directly asked if he thought we were both scum, iirc. Guess you missed that in your reread as well.

I felt this way about Vi in Cowboy Bebop briefly.

So, you are saying I'm scum because of a tell you read against a town player in Cowboy Bebop? That's some pretty sound logic.

For the record. I am completely aware of his meta. Completely. At no point did I pretend that I was not aware that he tends to be useless and short.

Even more reason to lynch you! You make no attempt to asses him on actual logic points or based on his actions in the game towards other players, but you would rather lynch him because he is being "useless and short" more than you expected. That reeks of scum trying to push an easy lynch in my eyes. If you were town you'd be looking at who he is voting for and when, and try to actually determine his alignment rather than just saying 'oh, hey, this guy isn't posting very much. he must be scum.'

Anytime VP starts a sentence like this I immediately am suspicious.

So, you are saying...jk

No where did FL say that she wants to lynch without hesitation.

Actually she answered that question in the affirmative. More things missed on this reread you were doing. tsk tsk.

I did not ignore the question. I thought it was pretty clear I was V/LA and was only posting quick short posts. EVERYWHERE on the site, not just here. I simply didn't have the time to do analysis of others at that point. I also explain my switch to Empking earlier in this post (see the Empking section).

Because it certainly would have taken you forever to name people you thought were suspicious, which was all I asked you to do.

Does everyone else not see that VP is setting me up as tomorrows lynch no matter WHAT Empking flips?

Actually, I would prefer you died today. Hence the vote.

-------------------------

More people vote Juls.

[Moriarty147]

JUST got back, literally minutes ago. Doing a full read of the thread since I left and posting, nobody hammer until then.

[Juls]

Saying over and over that I "missed" things in my reread is a mudslinging tactic I would expect from scum.

I did not miss where you said you "like to have your vote on someone all the time" I just don't buy it. A quick glance of the vote counts in Cowboy Beebop shows me that a good portion of D2 and D3 you were not voting anyone. It's not a huge point of contention but noteworthy that your claimed stance is not your M.O.

When I said you were misrepresenting Pesco I was noting that your comment brought up two quotes that you were trying to paste together as a contradiction. When the two statements were not a contradiction. Pesco was asked if he thought both you two were scum and he left the option open that you two

could

be scum together but I got the impression he thought it could be one or the other. I have no problem with this sort of conjecture on D1.

So, you are saying I'm scum because of a tell you read against a town player in Cowboy Bebop? That's some pretty sound logic.

There you go again with that "So you are saying". First of all, I pointed out that it was minor but I do find it suspicious when someone compliments me. I later found out that Vi was agreeing with me (i.e. supporting my role claim) because her role also had the same format (e.g. Corrupt Townie Name). And I didn't imply you are scum because of it although your hypersensitivity is noted.

If you were town you'd be looking at who he is voting for and when, and try to actually determine his alignment rather than just saying 'oh, hey, this guy isn't posting very much. he must be scum.'

Now who is selectively reading? As I said in my previous post, I made no

new

notes on Empking. That does not take away from what I have already said about him. You say I am not looking at who he is voting and why but if you look at my first vote on him I voted him because he voted you with only the claim of "rolefishing" and being middle of the wagon. And all his votes have been parroting what someone else said. Lack of scum hunting is a big scumtell to me. Even Empking scum hunts in other games even if it is unconventional.

Actually she answered that question in the affirmative. More things missed on this reread you were doing. tsk tsk.

It doesn't matter how she answered after the fact. The point was that isn't what she said and you twisted it into that. Just because FL didn't mind this characterization doesn't mean that is what she said initially.

Because it certainly would have taken you forever to name people you thought were suspicious, which was all I asked you to do.

You don't get it. It's not that I didn't have time to write a few names down. It was that I was not paying close enough attention to have any other suspects. I needed to do this reread to form some more solid opinions.

Actually, I would prefer you died today. Hence the vote.

From what I can tell, every vote or suspicion on me has to do with 1) my interaction with Empking and 2) my change of stance on Jesters. Yet you don't even comment on my explanation of my behavior concerning these two things.

Vote: VP Baltar

. I am willing to vote Empking if deadline is approaching (under 10%) but VP is certainly top of my list right now so this is where my vote should be.

[hasdgfas]

Hmm, for some reason, Right Said Fred doesn't feel like a Townie role to me.


This current Juls-VPB argument is giving me bad vibes. It feels really weak from both of them for some reason.

I also think I want to reread f-light, because I think it's a good idea.

[X]

I have been in very few games where the mod explicitly states there may be a Jester in the game. Therefore I am keeping it in the back of my head. That said, I have never been in a game where there actually was a jester. So when people are telling me it is ok to lynch a jester and nobody seems to have a problem with this, I will defer to the general opinion until I get more experience with it. Same with playing Miller. I have been miller twice now and I now feel confident I could play it better if I received the role again. If Empking does turn out to be Jester (or anyone does) in this game I will take a lessons learned out of this to ignore Jesters in general and if I suspect someone is then just lynch them. I still don't agree with it but why stick my neck out there and have people think I am scum because I like my team to be the sole-winner. That will just distract us from winning because attention will be on me. So that was my thought process and why I went back to voting Empking.

Okay, I think I believe this.

FL shouldn't have voted Empking that early, considering how Empking usually is.

This whole arguement that X and ek (and possibly others?) are trying to put out that Empking is always scummy therefore he should be ignored is ridiculous. I think FL said it and I agree that even people who are generally scummy players roll scum sometimes and Empking seems to be worse than usual this game.

Um, the key word in my quote was "early." He definitely shouldn't be ignored now that he's been consistently unhelpful.

I particularly don't like how VP plays the innocent victim in post 87. Of course you forced people to talk about it the minute you voted has.

This is very true.

Once again, you appear to be trying to have it both ways simultaneously.

This is a misrepresentation of what Pesco was saying. I read what Pesco was saying as there are things that could change his opinion during night but that if we lynch one of you and you flip scum we have a lot to go on by ways of finding links; not necessarily that you two are linked because of it. I realize I said something different on my first read through but I will fully admit that my vote on Pesco was me playing lazy. I had a lot going on during that time. I had my anniversary weekend followed by getting ready for and going on vacation. If I get lynched because of that I will have to accept that but I would rather this be seen as how I felt when paying attention in the event of my untimely death.

I have to agree with VPB here. While I didn't think he wanted to lynch both of them at first, he later said that his FoS was an intent to lynch. And Juls, the second half of your paragraph is very wishy-washy.

If you start a sentence with "So you are saying..." it feels like you are setting them up and putting words in their mouth.

Not if you end with a question mark and give them a chance to respond.

However, I can't really see you taking a hard stance on lurking after this.

Really? I've been asking people to post when I feel they have been lagging. I don't know what else I can do unless they give me their addresses and I can literally force them to type a post.

As far as I know, a hard stance on lurking is that you will vote for someone you think hasn't been posting enough.

[tubby216]

Hmm, for some reason, Right Said Fred doesn't feel like a Townie role to me.


This current Juls-VPB argument is giving me bad vibes. It feels really weak from both of them for some reason.

I also think I want to reread f-light, because I think it's a good idea.

Bleives in Cow.

[VP Baltar]

Saying over and over that I "missed" things in my reread is a mudslinging tactic I would expect from scum.

Or pointing out how you are conveniently skimming over things to fit your argument.

I did not miss where you said you "like to have your vote on someone all the time" I just don't buy it. A quick glance of the vote counts in Cowboy Beebop shows me that a good portion of D2 and D3 you were not voting anyone. It's not a huge point of contention but noteworthy that your claimed stance is not your M.O.

You using one game as meta against me is ridiculously narrow-sighted. Also, it doesn't even make sense. You are saying I did not to have my vote out at certain points in that game as scum, but the fact that I do have my vote out makes me scummy. I suggest you look at some of my town games if you plan to actually use this as an argument.

Pesco was asked if he thought both you two were scum and he left the option open that you two could be scum together but I got the impression he thought it could be one or the other. I have no problem with this sort of conjecture on D1.

Or it looks like chaining lynches, which I was under the impression you had a problem with. Isn't that what you said I was doing with you and Emp? Why the double standard for Pesco?

There you go again with that "So you are saying"

Get over yourself. It's just how I talk. It is a phrase that is seeking clarification. I'm not asking rhetorical questions with a preconceived conclusion. When I read what a player writes I interpret it a certain way, and if I feel it could be interpreted an alternative way I will ask something along these lines for clarification. I fail to see how that is scummy.

I didn't imply you are scum because of it although your hypersensitivity is noted.

Well, it was in your case against me, so I assume you were trying to say it was at least potentially scummy behaviour. If that isn't what you were saying, then what were you implying from it? Also, your attempt to paint me as "hypersensitive" by simply responding to a point you made is noted.

Even Empking scum hunts in other games even if it is unconventional.

Not really.

It doesn't matter how she answered after the fact. The point was that isn't what she said and you twisted it into that. Just because FL didn't mind this characterization doesn't mean that is what she said initially.

It most certainly does matter. How is that not what she said when she confirmed my interpretation of her statement? How are you the all knowing master of what f-light meant by her statement? Again, seeking clarification of a point is not a scumtell and you are certainly reaching a great distance to make me appear scummy.

You don't get it. It's not that I didn't have time to write a few names down. It was that I was not paying close enough attention to have any other suspects. I needed to do this reread to form some more solid opinions.

Meh, perhaps. I was under the impression you were at least skimming along though. My point at that time was that you hadn't really expanded upon your suspicions beyond Empking. You had read all of day 1, and i would think from that you could have at least given a second or third potential suspect even if you weren't completely caught up. More often than not it is the scum who focus on one target at a time because they are only concerned about the next mislynch.

Yet you don't even comment on my explanation of my behavior concerning these two things.

You going V/LA didn't exactly help. I plan to have the full response up today.

Right now my feeling is that Juls is either 1) scum OMGUSing hard because she was nailed in her interaction with Emp, or 2) town that is being seriously biased by me being scum in the recently completed Cowboy Bebop Mafia.

[elvis_knits]

elvis_knits

My initial impression of ek was town. I didn't have a problem with her attack on VP. It felt genuine. But there are some things I started noticing later.

Anyway, I see a possible connection between image and X, and also a connection between pesco and juls. Also FL possible connection to pesco/juls, for similar reasons as I see juls with pesco. This is sort of unimportant until one of these people pops up scum. I don't present it as evidence against any of them, but just for later use if it becomes pertinent.

Just to condence this post ek says Pesco/Tubby, image, X, FL, Juls are possible scum. She says it isn't "evidence" but seriously come on...thats 5 of 11 possible players she sees as scum. I have further problems with the fact that Empking and VP aren't on this list and they are high on mine.

Lots o' problems here!

Misrep. I saw a possible connection between 2 players and a seperate connection between 3 others. I did not think they were all scum together, nor did I say that.

Also, why is 5 players too many to suspect? I know they can't all be scum, but I have to question and pressure everyone who seeme like they might be scum. What is the problem?

And I did not suspect empking at the time, but I do now. I am trying to lynch him, meanwhile you are trying everything you can to vote/lynch somebody other than empking. If empking is so high on your list of suspects, why have you just unvoted him?

If he didn't have anything to hide, he should have said backstreet boys from the beginning, and also should have put his lyrics up when asked for flavor. Anyway, it's done now.

What would lyrics have changed?

It would have seemed like a more believable claim to me. I am always suspicious when people don't claim everything pertinent at the time of their claim. It is either an error of their part, or a sign that they are scum faking the claim.

---

So, am I the only one who thinks it's really weird how Juls long post had a bunch of parts where she attacks people for their treatment of empking (like they didn't think he was scummy when she did), but now she's voting VP and attacking the people who want empking lynched?

I could go for a Juls lynch at this point too.

[Sotty7]

Juls admitting she is fully aware of emp's site wide meta makes my skin crawl. Juls what do you think of emp's play today so far? Better, worse, the same as yesterday?

[elvis_knits]

Juls admitting she is fully aware of emp's site wide meta makes my skin crawl. Juls what do you think of emp's play today so far? Better, worse, the same as yesterday?

I agree. I think previously she was like "whenever I've played with him he's been better than this and that's all I know" [/paraphrase of my memory]

Also, her attack on VP is very lame.

[Empking]

Any games where you haven't been?

Sure.

Really? There are games where nobody has found you scummy? Links?

Also, can you explain why Juls would be a better lynch than you today?

Juls would be a better lynch that me because I'm town.

[VP Baltar]

Really? There are games where nobody has found you scummy? Links?

viewtopic.php?t=10946
Mafia 91. I was scum and was basically unsuspected other than an OMGUS from Harvey Pew, until Vi outted me through an investigation.
viewtopic.php?t=10726
Open 122. I was town and everyone knew it except some OMGUS from dejkha and kreriov.

Sotty and EK can also attest to Amnesia Mafia. I was scum in the game, but wasn't really suspected with any seriousness until the final day when town confirmations and a roleclaim were my undoing.

I have a couple of ongoings that I was killed D1 for being too town and having no suspicion on me. I won't link them, but you can find them through my wiki.

So yes, it is possible to play without being suspicious.

Juls would be a better lynch that me because I'm town.

That is thoroughly unhelpful.

[Empking's Alt]

Really? There are games where nobody has found you scummy? Links?

viewtopic.php?t=10946
Mafia 91. I was scum and was basically unsuspected other than an OMGUS from Harvey Pew, until Vi outted me through an investigation.
viewtopic.php?t=10726
Open 122. I was town and everyone knew it except some OMGUS from dejkha and kreriov.

Sotty and EK can also attest to Amnesia Mafia. I was scum in the game, but wasn't really suspected with any seriousness until the final day when town confirmations and a roleclaim were my undoing.

I have a couple of ongoings that I was killed D1 for being too town and having no suspicion on me. I won't link them, but you can find them through my wiki.

So yes, it is possible to play without being suspicious.

Aside for the fact that you were lynched in two of them and had two people vote you in the other.

[VP Baltar]

Getting a vote and being legitimately considered scummy are not the same thing. If those votes are from people OMGUSing me after I make cases against them (Juls) I don't consider it very serious as much as I do an emotional response.

Being lynched by confirmations or a cop investigation is not the same as being scummy either.

Try again.

[Vi]

Oh, you're so condescending - your gall is never-ending!
We don't want nothin' - not a thing from you!

Vote Count XXV:

If that's your best, your best won't do!

Empking (L-2) ~ forbiddanlight, elvis_knits, X, tubby216

Juls (L-3) ~ VP Baltar, Sotty7, Empking
image (L-5) ~ hasdgfas
VP Baltar (L-5) ~ Juls

Minimum (L-6)

Not Voting:

image, Moriarty147,

Juls

[size=0]image 1 PROD1 6 PROD1 2 | e_knits 0 | Empking 0 | f-light 3 PROD1 0 | hascow 0 | Juls 0 | tubby 0 PROD1 3 | Mo 0 PROD0 2 | Sotty7 0 PROD1 2 | VP Baltar 0 | X 0 PROD1 2[/size]

-Prodding f-light out of her bondage chair...

Battery Power:

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[Juls]

You using one game as meta against me is ridiculously narrow-sighted. Also, it doesn't even make sense. You are saying I did not to have my vote out at certain points in that game as scum, but the fact that I do have my vote out makes me scummy. I suggest you look at some of my town games if you plan to actually use this as an argument.

You are mixing apples and oranges. I know that you were in that game so that is the game I went back to look at. I'm not saying VP-scum doesn't keep his vote on someone or VP-town doesn't keep his vote on someone. Your claim is you like to keep your vote on someone. I expect that to mean that VP-alignment-independent always leave your vote on someone. I am saying you claiming it as your M.O. was a convienant excuse. But this argument has gone down such a side path. My initial point was that you aren't really pushing lurkers even though you seemed to feel so strongly about it in the beginning.

Or it looks like chaining lynches, which I was under the impression you had a problem with. Isn't that what you said I was doing with you and Emp? Why the double standard for Pesco?

Please see my post 404. I admitted that I wasn't playing to my full potential due to outside circumstances.

Get over yourself. It's just how I talk. It is a phrase that is seeking clarification. I'm not asking rhetorical questions with a preconceived conclusion. When I read what a player writes I interpret it a certain way, and if I feel it could be interpreted an alternative way I will ask something along these lines for clarification. I fail to see how that is scummy.

First...you know me from last game. I do not appreciate the "Get over yourself" part and I think you know that. I would prefer we have a civil conversation and that to me is a personal attack. This is me, asking you as politely as possible, to keep the discussion civil.

Second, let me try to explain what I see. I listen to Sean Hannity. I know...this is a lynch worthy offense in of itself, I am not republican but I live in the south and enjoy torture...hence me playing mafia. But, I hear day in and day out Sean Hannity say phrases like "So you are saying that our troops who fight for our freedom and make the world a better place are murders?". Now clearly, that is NOT what the caller said but some people come out of that going...wow, liberals hate our troops. So I am seeing a very similar thing with you here. You are planting the ideas that you want others to see because most of us read a game and don't take notes all the time. When it comes time to lynch, say FL for example...you could go back and say something like "On D2 FL wanted to lynch Empking without hesitation...I knew she was scum!". That is what I am trying to get across. You have planted that seed to water later on.

Also, why is 5 players too many to suspect? I know they can't all be scum, but I have to question and pressure everyone who seeme like they might be scum. What is the problem?

It's more the fact that you have 5 players that you saw as scummy and I know that at least two I see/saw as scummy weren't on your list. If we are on completely different pages it makes me wander if we hold the same alignment.

And I did not suspect empking at the time, but I do now. I am trying to lynch him, meanwhile you are trying everything you can to vote/lynch somebody other than empking. If empking is so high on your list of suspects, why have you just unvoted him?

No, I have every intention of voting Empking if we get close to deadline. Empking is #2 on my list right now. But I think VP is scum. I unvoted Empking so that I could complete my post and decided after I want to vote VP right now.

So, am I the only one who thinks it's really weird how Juls long post had a bunch of parts where she attacks people for their treatment of empking (like they didn't think he was scummy when she did), but now she's voting VP and attacking the people who want empking lynched?

Other than VP I don't think I really attacked anybody in my post. I have some mild suspicions of you but it's not like I am beating the ek drum here. I really am anxious for the reveal at the end of this game because I am baffled at how difficult it is for me to get anyone to understand my points. I feel like because I went V/LA and talked about Jesters that nothing else I say matters. But my goal here is if I do get lynched that I leave behind enough information for the town to see my intentions were sincere.

Juls admitting she is fully aware of emp's site wide meta makes my skin crawl. Juls what do you think of emp's play today so far? Better, worse, the same as yesterday?

About the same. I haven't seen anything to convince me he is trying any harder. I want to point out though that I have a pretty quick temper and people like zwets / Empking rub me the wrong way. I have played numerous games with zwets where I have voted him early and often. So I often take this stance of being annoyed enough by these type of players to vote them.

[Moriarty147]

The amount of votes VP got in the RVS combined with e_k's comment about how "Apparently your buddies are reluctant to buss you, VP." (every time someone has made a comment about buddies not bussing someone in D1 so far it has turned out that they were scumbuddies with that person, which is worrying in this case, especially considering the VPB/e_k argument D1) makes me a bit nervous.

D1 wagon analysis has turned up something interesting:
Both VPB and Juls never voted PP at all. Juls wasn't around much near the end of D1, which explains that, whereas VPB claimed to want to do a reread before the day was cut short by the hammer. As a result, I'm starting to think that VPB might be Town, given that PP was perfect lynchbait at that time and a vote would not be seen as strange at all around this time in D1.

Early D2 we start out with a turbolynch of Empking. Really no issue here, the way Empking is playing is hateful and there is virtually no way to properly read him barring a cop investigation of some form, not to mention I do not want him in endgame at all. As a result, I'm quite comfortable with his lynch, especially when he thinks that e_k is scum for reasons "he cannot recall". I mean seriously.

Looking back at VPB's wagon peak analysis in 295, we come across some interesting questions. Like PP's wagon: he was basically lynchalicious, he had made enough mistakes to justify a lynch of himself easily, and from that point onwards he just kept putting his foot in his damn mouth. So as a result, scum would likely be near the beginning of that wagon, which gives more reason to suspect image.

From post 306,

Side Note: Empking not dying N1 means that either

Empking is NK immune

or that there is no Vig. If there is another alternative, I am oblivious to it.

Buh? What about the third possibility, that Empking simply wasn't the NK target? If I was scum he certainly wouldn't be on my priority list for NKs given how he's a free lynch. Or the fourth one, that Empking himself is scum. No matter how many times I read this sentence, it seems very horribly weird and I can't seem to explain it away as either something Town would say or something Scum would say.

I really don't give a crap if Empking's a Jester or not, Jester's a hateful role that can go die in a fire for all I care, and therefore I can't see why Juls would get +1 scumpoint

for bringing the point up at all

in post 310, forbiddanlight?

Furthermore, your vote for Juls in 324 seems a bit out-of-nowhere, VPB.

hascow:

First off, we have the /sarcasm tag. While I understand that people use this, I always find it scummy, because one thing that I've found is that subconsciously, scum want to tell you they're scum, and will say something only scum would say, but hide it as a joke.

This is the relevant quote from image:

I too am suspicious of Elvis for reasons Empking can't recall; this seems like a very iron-clad case, and I'm wondering why Elvis hasn't been lynched yet.[/sarcasm]

This isn't trying to "hide something scum would say", this is openly mocking an absolutely idiotic statement of Empking. How does this give image scumpoints? The second point I do agree with, image is getting a bit wary about Empking (I brought this up in post 345, and it seems to not have been answered in a satisfactory manner by image yet)

In 339, X makes a bunch of points about Juls being scum

that are all dependent on Empking being scum

, but does put his money where is mouth is and votes Empking, even going as far to ask others why they are voting Juls instead of Empking. +1 goodposting, though the fact that he did not elaborate on that quote from 306 despite it being brought up on the previous page by VPB is slightly strange.

Not getting your logic in 348, VPB. I'm not sure why it's "obvious" that this would implicate her as scum, given how mafia works by definition there are always going to be some townies on townie wagons, and therefore I'm not sure why the threat of *gasp* being on TWO WHOLE TOWNIE WAGONS, especially on people who are either being suspicious as all hell (PP) or playing beyond horribly (Empking) in earlygame would make her be worried enough to try to make a really awkward wagon jump off of Empking on D2.

Wrong. Empking isn't really trying to protect himself.

Buh? What? What the heck do you mean by this? Empking seems to be quite adamant at least by what he says that he's Town and does not want to be lynched because then you'd be lynching a Town player.

Even Empking scum hunts in other games even if it is unconventional.

Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyno.

So my final conclusions? Empking needs to die today, if solely for the fact that he seems to be completely unwilling to play, is not readable at all, cannot seem to do any analysis beyond "jump on the leading wagon" and "attempt to save self by means of jumping on any other wagon that's developing" and does not seem to attempt to correct this and try harder, despite us trying to get him to actually

play the damn game

. This combined with his claim basically means that I am not averse to lynching him at all, and as a result am comfortable with hammering him if the battery meter drops below 10% at any time.

After that? Head says Juls, Heart says VPB. Juls is incredibly wishy-washy, and has created a really awkward attack on VPB, all while not doing much to endear herself at all. However, a lot of what she's done

can

be explained away by Jester-paranoia and general laziness at playing the game, and as a result I'm not terribly sure if she is that likely of a scum. VPB...despite the evidence making him look Townie, for some reason I'm very nervous about him for some reason gut-wise. I'm not sure why, but it's definetly something to keep my eye on for the rest of the game.

Other than those 3, image is still unnerving for being quasi-lurktastic, combined with the fact that he's been playing this game from an observer's standpoint to some degree. Definetly want more posts from him, ideally soon.

Finally, people in general need to post more. Also, X, are you a math major as well?

[hasdgfas]

hascow:

First off, we have the /sarcasm tag. While I understand that people use this, I always find it scummy, because one thing that I've found is that subconsciously, scum want to tell you they're scum, and will say something only scum would say, but hide it as a joke.

This is the relevant quote from image:

I too am suspicious of Elvis for reasons Empking can't recall; this seems like a very iron-clad case, and I'm wondering why Elvis hasn't been lynched yet.[/sarcasm]

This isn't trying to "hide something scum would say", this is openly mocking an absolutely idiotic statement of Empking. How does this give image scumpoints?

Maybe it's just one of my quirks, but anytime someone uses sarcasm in this game, I feel it shows their inner feelings.
Him saying sarcastically what he did, makes me think he actually wants to lynch anyone for any reason.

I don't expect people to listen to me on this, but it's something I always look at.

[Juls]

D1 wagon analysis has turned up something interesting:
Both VPB and Juls never voted PP at all. Juls wasn't around much near the end of D1, which explains that, whereas VPB claimed to want to do a reread before the day was cut short by the hammer. As a result, I'm starting to think that VPB might be Town, given that PP was perfect lynchbait at that time and a vote would not be seen as strange at all around this time in D1.

I actually hammered PP. I would have voted him immediately but VPB had asked for a "flavor" claim so I thought I would respect that. His flavor claim didn't help his case though.

[X]

Empking, please post as yourself, not as your Alt. And please post content. Such as, what do you think of Juls? Me? Moriarty147?

I'm not getting anything out of the the Juls v. VPB argument.

So you are saying that our troops who fight for our freedom and make the world a better place are murders?

Well, yes, but a better term for them would be Mason Vigilantes.

"Vigilantes" would depend on what kind of justice you think the US dispenses to the rest of the world. ~Vi

The amount of votes VP got in the RVS combined with e_k's comment about how "Apparently your buddies are reluctant to buss you, VP." (every time someone has made a comment about buddies not bussing someone in D1 so far it has turned out that they were scumbuddies with that person, which is worrying in this case, especially considering the VPB/e_k argument D1) makes me a bit nervous.

So you think that VPB and EK are scum together?

From post 306,

Side Note: Empking not dying N1 means that either Empking is NK immune or that there is no Vig. If there is another alternative, I am oblivious to it.

Buh? What about the third possibility, that Empking simply wasn't the NK target? If I was scum he certainly wouldn't be on my priority list for NKs given how he's a free lynch. Or the fourth one, that Empking himself is scum. No matter how many times I read this sentence, it seems very horribly weird and I can't seem to explain it away as either something Town would say or something Scum would say.

You do realize what a Vig is?

Fixed. ~Vi

Wrong. Empking isn't really trying to protect himself.

Buh? What? What the heck do you mean by this? Empking seems to be quite adamant at least by what he says that he's Town and does not want to be lynched because then you'd be lynching a Town player.

Read the thread, please.

Also, X, are you a math major as well?

Technically, no. I have another month and a half before I enter college. But I will be.