The Sopranos: A Deadly Game (GAME OVER!)

[zwetschenwasser]

Zwet: as has been asked before, what information is this? Why the soft claim now?

FoS: Zwet

Blatant rolefish. It's enough for me to confirm that being in a different mafia family than Soprano's does not automatically label someone as scum.

[al_kohaulec]

Zwet: as has been asked before, what information is this? Why the soft claim now?

FoS: Zwet

Blatant rolefish. It's enough for me to confirm that being in a different mafia family than Soprano's does not automatically label someone as scum.

I'm not trying to rolefish, Zwet, but I do want clarification.

When you say a different mafia family than the Soprano's, are you talking about Soprano's literal immediate family? Soprano's crew? The DiMeo family?

I would like you to clarify what you mean by being in a different family.

[Dr. Melfi]

Vote Count #3:

al_koaulec (8) - ashmc1984, fuzzylightning, zoneace, millar13, Locke Lamora, inHimshallibe, mneme, CJMiller

millar13 (2) - Monkeyman576, rajrhcpfreak
Kise (2) - hohum, elvis_knits
Empking (1) - porochaz
CJmiller (1) - SirTornado
zoneace (1) - al_kohaulec
inHimshallibe (1) - Empking
zwetschenwasser (1) - Kise

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

[millar13]

What are peoples thoughts on role-claiming?

[Kise]

I think we shouldn't trust cops in this game. Just a funny thought, though.

Or did you mean character-claim?

[Kise]

I wasn't getting anything out of emp, sure. That's why I jumped off. But it still isn't your place to tear down other people's wagons.

If you knew nothing was going to come out of that wagon, then why were you constantly complaining about me "tearing it down" for as long as you did? All I said was that it was a waste of time if you wagoners expected to pressure Emp into saying something so early on. He couldn't have had anything worthwhile to say that early on, so the reason you gave as to why you pressure-voted Emp does not make sense. You even admit that wagoning on Emp was going nowhere.

As for the rest of your diatribe, meh: you don't really seem to be asking me anything as much as telling me off.

Shut 'em down.

However, I don't like the OMGUS reaction from Kise.

Someone makes a trivial case on me, and I automatically start digging in their ass. I went into Mastin-mode and was about to make a wall-of-text, but I kept making jokes out of hohum's posts and decided not to use it. I got it saved in notepad, and I'll probably pull that

bad boy

out if I feel warranted. Anywho!

Hohum says kise isn't doing anything, and kise's reaction is: neither are you.

I didn't use the word "neither," because I do not fall in the category that hohum wants to place me in. I flipped the script in a way to label him a hypocrite. He called my posts mere busy/activity) posts, but all he's been doing is asking people questions and not following up (nothing but gristle). So, in other words, he's the one who is making busy posts and

not going anywhere

with these questions.

1) kise didn't defend himself by saying he is scum hunting.

Do you believe I was scumhunting?

Trying to have it both ways on Al.

His mother took it both ways. I had the rear, Jr. took the mouth.

Also, looking through his posts, his early presence on the empking wagon and then lecturing posts about how wagoning is bad. Seems insincere since he was on empking too.

July Fools, anyone?
*smh*

[ZONEACE]

more al death please

[MonkeyMan576]

I'm sorry, I find it unlikely that Al and Millar are both scum, and I think that Millar has been much more scummy.

[ZONEACE]

I'm sorry, I find it unlikely that Al and Millar are both scum, and I think that Millar has been much more scummy.

more al death please

[millar13]

If Al flips town, i would be more than happy to let you kill me

[rajrhcpfreak]

You should always talk about more than one person on day one. Or if you going to stick to just one person....have a big case.

we are all different people. you gain info by observing reactions of players. with such a big game i dont have enough info to say alot. its like playing poker and constantly talking. its just not my style, i prefer to hold my cards close and lay them down when i feel more certain or if telling my opinion will help the game.
and in the theme of cards, this isnt go fish where you can ask me to reveal something to you. especially when im not the one under suspicion.


Now this is relevant and should help the town:
I think the alko bandwaogn is bollocks. there is no real evidence to support it, from what i remember (if there is tell me). i suspect some heavy busing from scum. hence my vote on millar. if the bandwagon does get bigger i would support a claim, that would be very helpful.

[millar13]

I agree i may be totally wrong, but this came really has offered very little.

[hohum]

As for the rest of your diatribe, meh: you don't really seem to be asking me anything as much as telling me off.

Shut 'em down.

I'll let you think that if it soothes that giant ego of yours.

[hohum]

I'm sorry, I find it unlikely that Al and Millar are both scum, and I think that Millar has been much more scummy.

more al death please

I'd rather see kise lynched than al at this point.

[al_kohaulec]

What are peoples thoughts on role-claiming?

Umm.. no.

Why would we all want to role-claim? It's day 1. Mass claim can be very good down the road towards the end of the game, but this early it is bad.

I think we shouldn't trust cops in this game. Just a funny thought, though.

more al death please

How about you make a decent case? The only "reason" I've seen is that players misunderstood what I said.

[ZONEACE]

no, people understood what you said. What you said, and what you claimed to have said didn't mesh.

[Kise]

Actually, just thinking out loud, character-claiming could break the game. If you watch Sopranos, then you would know who has the DiMeo family's best interest in their hearts and who's an antagonist or backstabber, snitch, etc. I'm pretty sure we could narrow down the obv-town from the possible-scum. But, the biggest problem I have with doing that is exposing Tony Soprano, or any other Capos for that matter.

Ahem.

Besides, if I may paraphrase, you said it yourself: "Early in the game, no one really has anything to go off of." So then... what did you expect to hear from Emp?

[Kise]

That quote was for you, hohum.

[ZONEACE]

Actually, just thinking out loud, character-claiming could break the game. If you watch Sopranos, then you would know who has the DiMeo family's best interest in their hearts and who's an antagonist or backstabber, snitch, etc. I'm pretty sure we could narrow down the obv-town from the possible-scum. But, the biggest problem I have with doing that is exposing Tony Soprano, or any other Capos for that matter.

Ahem.

Besides, if I may paraphrase, you said it yourself: "Early in the game, no one really has anything to go off of." So then... what did you expect to hear from Emp?

you really think that if that was the case that MOS (and co-mod) wouldn't have given the "mafia" safe claims?

[hohum]

I expected him to whine and bitch and drop scum tells like he usually does. I did to him what you're doing to zwet. I picked an easy target.

Since he barely reacted at all I decided it was time to move on.

[Kise]

@ZONE - Safe claims tend to be obv-fakeclaims, but who knows.(?) It's more fun/challenging if we play this game the normal way.

@hohum - Are you saying that you hoped/expected Emp would set himself up and look scummy (yes or no)? Then you dropped it after seeing that plan wouldn't work (yes or no)?

[hohum]

yes, and yes.

Also, before you get all uppity and bent out of shape again, look at the timing of your own fucking posts. You were already bitching about the wagon before Empking even had a chance to respond.

[Kise]

And again, you're trying to characterize/represent me without my consent. I'm not voting zwet because he's an easy target.. That's implying that I'm scum who wants to go for an easy (mis)lynch on zwet if he's town. If that's what you did with Emp.. then you're not going to make it to Day 2, that's all I'm going to say.

Regarding zwet: I have a serious feeling he is mafia. I am not voting him because I expect him to spill his guts and reveal this inside info he talked about. I already stated the possibility with zwet-scum, as he could either be trying to make himself look good "in the event" Al flips town, or he's trying to save his scumbuddy, Al. I watched zwet respond (poorly) to myself & others after we expressed our concern with his needless softclaim, and his behavior earned a vote.

[hohum]

I don't need your consent to make observations. I don't answer to you.

That's implying that I'm scum who wants to go for an easy (mis)lynch on zwet if he's town. If that's what you did with Emp.. then you're not going to make it to Day 2, that's all I'm going to say.

I'm not implying that. You're putting words into my mouth now. You explained the vote for zwet and I can accept that, but you have failed to explain anything else.

Votes are an effective way to get people responding as wagons are an effective way to put pressure on people to respond -- yes, even early wagons. You're invalidating the only tool the town has to pressure people by preemptively saving people. Pack mentality in this game is a GOOD thing, not a BAD thing.

The whole ever loving point is that he had no incentive to respond to ANYONE voting for him with you RUSHING in to be his knight in shining armor.

Your stance on Zwet is in defiance of Occam's Razor in that you're assuming too much. You really don't have a whole heap of proof, and if you weren't so vocal about Empking's wagon I would have kept that opinion to myself.

[al_kohaulec]

I went back through the thread again...

with Ash being the last person who joined the bandwagon, I voted for him because he oughtta know better (if he's townie) that you don't needlessly hop on a baseless voting-party.

It may take a bigger case to get Ash lynched,

but between him, inHim & yourself, one has to be scum

.. I just don't see a townie player hopping onto a now-5-person wagon so nonchalantly. Mafia more than likely would join the party since they can cover up the fact that 4 other people voted for Empking also. And from there, it's a chaotic case of "which one(s) out of the 5 are scum?"

Poro's vote can lightly be taken as an obv-joke vote.. but it's the bandwagon that follows that raises suspicion.

This didn't seem to be covered very well, but why do one of those three

have

to be scum? I would agree that it's a wagon that scum likely would have jumped onto to push a quick and easy lynch, but with the number we need to actually lynch somebody, and everybody on the wagon looked like they were bandwagoning onto a joke vote much moreso than a real bandwagon, I want to hear why you think one of those 3 players are definitely scum?

Vote: al_kohaulec

when you said FAMILY, everyone was thinking "The Tony Soparano Family/Crew so suggesting anything else afterward is just scum scum scummytastic

Why did you wait until players started piling votes onto me before deciding to vote me? You were posting, and even commented on it, but waited until 3 other votes and more other players commented on being suspicious before you decided to add your vote. Trying to see if a bandwagon formed before trying to push it?

unvote
vote: al_kohaulec

Seemed to be the popular thing to do at this time.

This is just suspicious because you joined the bandwagon with no reason. You still haven't put any reason. You've jumped between a few players so far, but have added no content to the game at all, and fuzzylightning is the only vote you posted any sort of a reason on for voting.

elvis: I agree there's been some confusion about 'goon' and 'family' in this situation, but I don't think that's only why al is scummy. This is what I don't like about al's vote on zoneface:

I said you're part of the family, the

DiMeo

family. I never said you were part of Tony's crew. And you said "No", as in you're not part of the DiMeo family.

All zoneface said was 'no', as he pointed out. Going from saying no to the suggestion that he was the goon from the family to taking no as an indication he's not part of the DiMeo family at all is too much of a leap for me. That goes beyond just confusion; al has tried to make zoneface's one-word reply into something it wasn't.

Whether it was a stretch or not, it was an opportunity to push zoneace for more information. His response, saying he was part of the family but not the crew, was a plus in his favor. When he said no, I read it as saying "He's not part of the family" is false, but his post in response to mine clarified that he was responding to my "he's the goon in the family" sentence, more specifically, he's not a goon. So it gave me more information on zoneace by me pushing that.

zwet usually full claims. This is an improvement.

This is an improvement? hmm, well, fuck.

I agree with ek's assessment of zwet's play.

In other news:

unvote, voke elvis_knits

just to reiterate my point about her "case"

I'm still lost on this post. Could you elaborate on your vote and your "point"?

@kise:

Your posts don't really contain much content. You're simply posting in order to look busy. Uncool.

Major scum points for your State the Obvious post earlier.

This post does surprise me. Kise has been posting content, and there are many other players who are barely even posting. From first view, hohum is the player I'd say isn't posting content. But reading his posts more focused, I can see some content in them, it's just hard to pull out what he's saying with how he says it. His push against Kise for "busy" posts is a little suspicious.

I wasn't getting anything out of emp, sure. That's why I jumped off. But it still isn't your place to tear down other people's wagons.

How would you be able to reward me these points if you can't prove it? This is nothing more than a needless mischaracterization. There was no point in bringing this up, unless this is your petty attempt to throw another handful of dirt on my name.

You seem to just not get it. I'm not trying to be funny. I actually keep a point log in my journals when I play Mafia. It would probably serve you (and anyone else) a little better to pay attention and take notes on all your games. Point logs seem to nail scum better than 75% of the time as the game progresses, because the scum tend to stand out eventually.

As for the rest of your diatribe, meh: you don't really seem to be asking me anything as much as telling me off.

I originally quoted this for your comment on e_k, which is a few points in your favor. It's consistent with what you've said from the beginning, and follows good play. You stuck to a bandwagon for information, nothing was coming from it, so you left it.

Looking over this post again, though, I saw you saying you keep a point log. I agree this is very good and is something everybody should do. It's one of the best ways to catch players' contradictions.

Actually, just thinking out loud, character-claiming could break the game. If you watch Sopranos, then you would know who has the DiMeo family's best interest in their hearts and who's an antagonist or backstabber, snitch, etc. I'm pretty sure we could narrow down the obv-town from the possible-scum. But, the biggest problem I have with doing that is exposing Tony Soprano, or any other Capos for that matter.

Ahem.

Besides, if I may paraphrase, you said it yourself: "Early in the game, no one really has anything to go off of." So then... what did you expect to hear from Emp?

I've never seen The Sopranos, so I wouldn't know. But if Character claiming could break the game, we should consider it. I hate mass-claims in the sense that it kind of "ruins" the game and takes all the fun out of it, but if we can use it to our advantage to scumhunt, we should definitely use it. I'll leave it up to players who are familiar with The Sopranos to determine if this is the case or not.

Actually, just thinking out loud, character-claiming could break the game. If you watch Sopranos, then you would know who has the DiMeo family's best interest in their hearts and who's an antagonist or backstabber, snitch, etc. I'm pretty sure we could narrow down the obv-town from the possible-scum. But, the biggest problem I have with doing that is exposing Tony Soprano, or any other Capos for that matter.

Ahem.

Besides, if I may paraphrase, you said it yourself: "Early in the game, no one really has anything to go off of." So then... what did you expect to hear from Emp?

you really think that if that was the case that MOS (and co-mod) wouldn't have given the "mafia" safe claims?

You should take a look at Clue Mafia. 3 games, all running simultaneously, with 3 different setups. Happened to correlate to the movie perfectly. Character claim would win the game for the town, and none of the scum were given safe claims. This game was modded by MoS.

So yes, I really think that if this game could have been broken by a character claim, that the mods wouldn't have necessarily provided safe claims. I don't know if MoS has ever done this before.



=====================

Of all the players, millar has acted the most scummy so far.

Unvote, Vote: Millar

zoneace has acted somewhat scummy, but I'm getting a feel for his attitude in how he plays, and that may be all that I'm reading.

hohum is wavering between scum/town, a bit more towards town.

inhim is looking suspicious. I want him posting more so we can gather more information on him.

Just about everybody else is neutral or townish, so I don't feel I need to go through them.