Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, I already answered all of the things you mentioned. Why are you using Zazie's post-style anyway?

Sorry, I wasn't caught up. As for the way I've been posting, I have been doing this lately, because commenting on more posts at once isn't quite as fast as one at a time IMO.

[molestargazer]

Yes, I'm here. Just about.
Sorry.
Damn, this day's already longer than I thought it was, so time to get back on the little hamster wheel and catch up.

Kise totally had Zazie at post 232 or so.. Zazie's over the top defence about how she knew there were two scumgroups was obvscum.

This just caught my eye. It's easy to say that it was obvscum NOW, but I'm wondering if you did so at the time. I'll put it on my 'To-Read' list (Currently about 4000 items long, but I'll get there! ).

At the bottom of the page there is a drop down tab where you can select a specific user to view in isloation. By default it is set to "all users". Just click on the down arrow and scroll to select a specific player.

Oh, god, how have I not spotted that before? That is amazingly useful.

oh look, someone who was mindlessly pushing a khan wagon flipped scum. i am in no way surprised. now can we stop all discussion of ever lynching khan, finally?

vote: hayker

Could you please give a bit of explanation as to why you cast this vote?

Interesting. What is a neighbour?

This jumps out as a lack of reading (Ironic coming from me, but there you go). This had already been covered since the start of this day, just a page before this post.

I read ckool iso last night too, and I got a scum read from him

Jumps out as an "Oh, yeah, me too" kinda going with the flow. I will, however, continue reading and will await the results of both Wicked's and VP's iso reads.

Also I don't consider my thanking buddying because I'm Canadian and thank people for assisting people. (And no I'm not trying to say other people in other countried don't thank people.)

To those accusing Hayker of buddying - Is this thanking the only reason you think this buddying's taken place? If not, could you please explain a little more so we can get a response?

An observation. I know, kill speculation, kinda bad/possibly rolefishing, but this is interesting info.
Sotty7, Emerald Townie - Slaughtered Night Zero
elvis_knits, Emerald Jailkeeper - Murdered Night Zero
Konowa, Cerulean Mafia Doctor - Annihilated Night Zero
Seryna Kise, Emerald Townie - Slaughtered Night One
nadroj15 ZazieR, Vermillion Mafia Goon - Murdered Night One
Mufasa, Emerald Neighbour - Annihilated Night One

-Some stuff cut out-

In my eyes, I am seeing evidence that further supports my theory of four killing factions with one of them being blocked.

You see three kills BOTH nights and still assume four killing factions? Do you honestly believe that someone was blocked both nights?

I think it is a VERY real possibility that he was blocked in his nk attempt N0.

Why do you think this is such a real possibility? The odds against it happened are massive.

can we lynch mastin now? he's just going to continue trying to use his fake rb claim to spin farfetched theories and try to score mislynches with them.

He's made one post today, and that wasn't trying to lynch anyone. I'm sure you have a convincing case somewhere, but at least show it us.

Vote: roflcopter

I'm pretty sure Khan is indeed a miller now.

What makes you think miller?

I have to go now, not going to have much time to catch up tomorrow, but it should happen.

[Xylthixlm]

molestargazer, do you think Mastin is scummy? Why or why not?

[VP Baltar]

Reading ckool in iso, here are the main things I see as screaming scum:

But first of all, yay! A mafia doctor (or whatever it is) has been eliminated!

This irks me, especially since it was his first post in the game. Could be read as either noob town or noob scum.

He makes excuses for Mastin a lot early in the game. Mastin or ckool, have you guys played a game together before?

In this post he attacks Kise over saying "lol", which is pretty much a BS reason to attack a player. This is six pages into the game too. It seems like an RVS reason to be questioning someone over.

This post looks like playful banter and coaching from Zazier.

He plays the noob card quite a lot. Not necessarily a scum tell considering how badly Faraday claims his history is, but I still don't like it. I know I did it as noob scum at times to get a pass for my mistakes.

On the whole "piggy-backing my evidence" thing, I wasn't exactly trying to convince everyone that Kublai was scum, I was just saying "WTF?" to my computer repeatedly... Because Kublai had mixed up what I had said. If you find that and whatever else is in his post a scum-tell, then go right ahead and vote for him...

You know what? After looking at everything, I will too.

Vote: Kublai Khan

^^^This post is pretty much the extent of actual suspicions he mentions of KK before voting him. Meanwhile, Zazie had been trumpeting around about how scummy he was. Looks like sheeping with his senior scumpartner.

More playful banter with Zazie here

I'm going to fully post these next three posts because they are quite interesting juxtaposed:

FoS: ckool

In case I haven't done that already.

You FoS''ed than HoS''ed and now FoS''ed, so I''m pretty sure you have done it already >.<

Woopsie!

Kise, you're starting to seem pretty scummy to me.

Why did him FoSing you again make him seem suspicious to you?

You know what amazes me? ZazieR has been posting a majority of the posts on the last few pages, and she hasn't gotten a single fos or anything... Of course, there's not much about her posts that could really seem suspicious... For a second, I thought I was on a roll with my thought process, but I'm not even really sure what I'm saying now...

I'm starting to think less and less that Kublai is town. I still have my vote on him, but there's something that bothers me about it: Wouldn't a scum, if they were faking a miller, say that, yes, they were a death miller, if somebody asks? Of course, that may seem scummy in some people's eyes, so that would make them not really want to do that, but wouldn't it be in their best interest? So that way, nobody could be 100% sure if they were town or scum? Now look at Kublai. He doesn't really know, but thinks it's an ordinary miller role....

I'm starting to confuse myself. The point is, I'm starting to suspect Kublai a little lesser, but I still have my vote on him.

I'm going back and forth a little bit about this post. The first part about Zazie definitely seems weird and potentially scummy banter. The part about KK is where it gets sketchy. On the one hand he is backing off the lynch while Zazie is still pushing hard for it, but on the other hand it wasn't gaining any traction and he could have been eyeing a vote switch to the Johnny Rotten wagon which was going very strong at that point.

When I make my cases against MM and Mastin, ckool says this:

You had lots of good points, and now that I think of it, I'm not 100% sure why I'm still voting for Kublai...

and this

I'm seriously considering changing my vote to Mastin or MafiaMann (what's up with M's and S's arouind these forums?), but if you need anymore reasons to vote for Kublai, just look at Zaz's posts.

Clearly he has no clue why he actually wants to vote for KK, but he knows it sounds good!

He then votes Mastin and disappears for awhile. When Mastin claims roleblocker ckool unvotes him after many other players had begun to back off and he returns with this:

Hmmm... I'm not sure if I want to vote for Kublai, VP, or MafiaMann...

He said he didn't even really know why he was voting Kublai earlier, he never even mentioned any suspicions on me at this point, and his reasons for voting MM were all mine, none of his own. I know my alignment, KK is more than likely town, and we all know MM was town....so this definitely seems like lost scum searching for a wagon to join.

He gives his reasons for suspecting us later when questioned:

Kublai- For reasons already stated before, thank you.

VP- Something just doesn't seem right about his posts to Mastin, and it seems like he's purposefully leaving out important info... Like the one's that Mastin bolds and increases in size.

MM- Um... To be honest I don't know. For some reason there's a bandwagon... And it all sounded like he was scummy...

I didn't see hardly any clear reasons for him suspecting KK on this reread. He had pretty much been agreeing with me whole-heartedly on the Mastin wagon until the claim, so why wouldn't all this ingenuousness on my part have stuck out before? And well, he doesn't know why he is thinking about voting MM

Switches his vote to Mufasa because I, someone he was thinking about voting for, pointed out why he should.
Do you typically follow people you think are scummy in their suspicions ckool?

---------------------
Ok, that is pretty much the stuff that stood out on an iso read of him. Some definite connections between him and Zazier in there. I want to look at Kise in iso as well and see where his suspicions were at.

[Kmd4390]

I'm pretty sure Khan is indeed a miller now.

What makes you think miller?

Maybe it was the miller claim.

------------

VP, interesting. I saw ckool as scummy before, but I didn't see the connection to Zazie.

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #33=-

Mastin (4) - roflcopter, Xylthixlm, Kublai Khan, curiouskarmadog
roflcopter (3) - Hayker, Kmd4390, molestargazer
VP Baltar (2) - Mastin, Namttam
ckool5000 (2) - VP Baltar, Wickedestjr
Hayker (1) - Lowell

Not Voting (5) - Achilles, ckool5000, Empking's Alt, Faraday, SerialClergyman

9 to lynch.

[SerialClergyman]

I'm re-reading form last night and only just got up to 1023, but VP pastes cKool cold so I'm voting right now.

vote cKool

I'll post a content post if I get time after a read.

[SerialClergyman]

Hehe

I'm now epically embarrassed, seeing that there was only 2 posts to go. Nothing to see here people, move along...

[SerialClergyman]

OK content -

KMD - how did you not see a connection between cKool and Zazie when it was discussed right at the start of the day? Check out post 1041

What was impressive about VPs case to me was that it wasn't just drawing a link to Zazie, it used that coupled with his terrible posts about voting KK. He is always confused about KK, always confused about why he's voting KK. He looks absolutely like he's being led by Zazie, and puts the coaching and defending relationship he's had with her all game into context. It's perfectly clear to me that he was voting KK because Zazie was pushing so hard for it and he didn't really know what else.

In addition, did the Kise kill come out of the blue for anyone else? He didn't really do anything in the game, except he did manage to find both ckool and zazie scummy. Would be a perfect time to off him.

-----

rofl - I am finding the relationship between you and Xyl something ot keep an eye on. Xyl is more than ready to clear you on meta, gives us one idea of how we could not clear you (ie if you start explaining your actions more) and then, as far as I can tell, you start explaining your actions more and he says you're protown again. For example:

Based on what I recall from going over a few of his scum games, he tends to explain what he's doing more when he's scum.

i'm still paranoid about people attempting to save mastin. however, i'm virtually positive baltar is town so his attempt to get the alternative wagon going isn't as unsettling as kmd's.

^ this is town-roflcopter to my eye

Those two seem to contradict each other. rofl actually posts some of what he's thinking and why for once in the game, and you latch onto it as being rofltown, which seems to be against your original point.

Even this post:

If he was scum and not explaining what he's doing? I'd look for a few things. You need a high tolerance for suspicion to pull off that playstyle, so I'd look for evidence that he cares if people find his playstyle scummy. I'd also look for signs that he's holding back opinions or lurking more than normal. And I normally have some idea what he's thinking, so I'd get worried if I didn't have any.

Things like holding back opinions or lurking more than normal seem to be exact opposites of explaining what he's doing.

This could just be a lost in translation thing, but I dont' like the relationship between Xyl and rofl. It looks like Xyl could clear anything based on an ill-defined meta read.

-----

Some things of note from Mastin's game as scum in Polygamist mafia:

He gets prodded multiple times, his activity wanes. That's definiteily similar to this game.
He OMGUS votes a bit

On the other hand,
He talks down policy votes, where he semi policy votes Kahn in this game.
He seems less over-the-top frustrated and intense in his posts, he seems more genuine in his scumhunting this game.

Overall, I think analysing this then analysing our game definitely hurts Mastin's meta argument, well worth a read.

At the moment though, cKool is the play of the day for me by a long shot.

[Kmd4390]

KMD - how did you not see a connection between cKool and Zazie when it was discussed right at the start of the day? Check out post 1041

Probably skimmed it.

[Xylthixlm]

This could just be a lost in translation thing, but I dont' like the relationship between Xyl and rofl. It looks like Xyl could clear anything based on an ill-defined meta read.

Try reading some of roflcopter's town games to see how he usually plays as town.

[havingfitz]

Interesting. What is a neighbour?

This jumps out as a lack of reading (Ironic coming from me, but there you go). This had already been covered since the start of this day, just a page before this post.

Sorry, I did not notice.

I read ckool iso last night too, and I got a scum read from him

Jumps out as an "Oh, yeah, me too" kinda going with the flow. I will, however, continue reading and will await the results of both Wicked's and VP's iso reads.

I had been waiting until I had enough time to post my results, and I explained that I had read the first six players in the player list in iso. I am pretty sure I gave my results from reading him in iso.

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry, the last post was mine. I was on a relatives account and they hadn't logged out.

[iamausername]

-=Achilles and ckool5000 have been prodded=-

[Namttam]

Namttam - why the VP vote? Did Zazie's flip surprise you or influence your decision in any way?

Continuation, I voted for today just like I voted him yesterday, I don't like his actions.
The flip didn't influence my decision at all and it did surprise me. I hadn't had the chance to read Zaz in ISO when I last posted but now I have.

Namtam--stop being lazy. your case sucked yesterday and it continues to. Also, who are your suspects now that we have another scum flip?

Just because my case sucks doesn't make you town. You got me on the lazy part though, I couldn't find the time for this game during the week but I'm caught up now. The obvious suspect from the flip is ckool as everyone and their mother has realized. I've never played with Zaz before so I don't know if she typically watches out for her partners or would tend to try to buddy with town. I had a town reading on ckool before the flip so I would lean toward the latter explanation being true. However when you take into account ckool's behavior towards Zaz ckool's situation becomes even worse. So in the end I have to conclude that ckool is likely to be a scum partner of Zaz.
Mastin. I was on his side all of yesterday because I felt his post style was making him an easy lynch target when I got a town read from him. Zaz's flip paints him in a poor light. Zaz's indifference to Mastin who was a large object of discussion says a lot more to me than Mastin's obvious buddying to Zaz. I have to add him to my suspect list.
Zaz's flip doesn't negate the case against KK but that's a dead horse since no one wants to vote the claimed miller.
I don't like rofl at all. I find it incredibly contradictory that he will policy not vote a claimed miller but will vote a claimed role-blocker.
Some other suspicions I'll throw out there are Wickedestjr and still Achilles.
For now I think I will

Unvote, Vote: roflcopter

Xyl and Namtam, what are you opinions on ckool?

See above.

@rofl-could you explain to me why it is wrong to lynch the claimed miller but correct to lynch the claimed roleblocker?

[ckool5000]

Whoa..... This game has gone fast. I'll try to catch up....

[Wickedestjr]

Some other suspicions I'll throw out there are Wickedestjr and still Achilles.

Can you please explain these suspicions please?

And also, what are your thoughts about Kmd, KK, and VP?

[molestargazer]

What makes you think miller?

Maybe it was the miller claim.

Touché.
Been very busy past few days, will do my best to keep up and carry on from where I left.

molestargazer, do you think Mastin is scummy? Why or why not?

I will get back to you as soon as I've caught up.
If I don't, remind me, I'll have forgotten.

[Achilles]

I'm on page 46, going to post thoughts soon

[iamausername]

-=Empking's Alt has been prodded=-

[Kublai Khan]

Okay, we're not really getting anywhere with multiple half-ass bandwagons that aren't causing a lick of pressure. We need to work together.

Now, Mastin has already claimed and I think that there are several problems with his claim. Mastin has not addressed anything. He still hasn't even addressed the initial skepticism of claim made back on Day 1.

So at this point we can wait until he gets caught up, or tire of his stalling and lynch him. Deadline isn't for 2 weeks, so I think we can afford putting him on the backburner for now and try to focus on some other targets.

Now, we're also waiting for several other people to get caught up. Achilles, ckool5000, Empking's Alt have all posted only a single post since Day 2 started a week ago. C'mon people. Kmd4390 read something like 40 pages in a single afternoon and you guys can't find a single afternoon to read like 5-6 pages? The non-input is looking scummier and scummier.

This is especially true for ckool5000. There's a good case built up on him and I really think he's avoiding having to answer for it, and he's hoping that attention will shift to someone else.

So at this point I'm switching bandwagons to ckool5000 and I'm imploring the Mastin wagon to follow my lead. Nobody is going to respond to the piddly 3-4 votes we're giving people with 9 to lynch. Let's get this game going in a positive direction by forcing ckool5000 to post by putting 7-8 votes on him.

unvote
Vote: ckool5000

[ckool5000]

Augh! I'm so confused!... I have no idea what to say to this.... Why are you guys voting me? I'm having a lot of trouble understanding what you all are saying....

And I've been extremely busy in the past few days, alright?...

[VP Baltar]

I agree with KK.

ckool, I made a lengthy post regarding my reread of you and several other people have posted their suspicions of you as well. I suggest you find those posts and start addressing those points. You being busy isn't much of an excuse when you already said you were going to try and catch up.

[Hayker]

/unvote

I still suspect rofl, but it seems that many agree that rofl is playing to his meta. I will most likley make another atempt later in the day phase.

/vote:ckool

There have been several arguments made towards you ckool, answering some might give us a clearer read on you being scum or town. KK makes sense to me, we don't need to lynch you right now, just pressure you.

[ckool5000]

...I'm seriously crying right now...

I have no idea what arguements to answer, since none of them make a lick of sense to me.