Mini 817: Chosen (Game Over!)

[TDC]

/confirm

[TDC]

vote: Archon

[TDC]

Was this:

vote: Archon

in response to this:

I refuse to random vote to get conversation started.

?

Pretty much.

[TDC]

I like how he accuses you of something and in your reply, you do it again.

[TDC]

I don't see anything unusual in it.

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I have modded afatchic.

Disappointed that Zorblag doesn't write in third person in games.

[TDC]

I've also modded ah2190, though it ended just like here, with me replacing him during confirmations.

[TDC]

I have modded afatchic.

Disappointed that Zorblag doesn't write in third person in games.

Weren't we in a game together as well?

Having searched through your games, yes, we were both replacements in Chain Reaction Mafia.

[TDC]

Click on search, enter name into the author field. It will display a list of all threads that user has posted in.

[TDC]

Also, select "Mafia Games" from Category.

[TDC]

Call.

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As in, if this was poker I'd like to see Papa Zito's hand because I think it's emtpy.

[TDC]

You feel pressed?

[TDC]

Also, how could he possibly "pursure this pressure" without explaining his vote?
Post "Why is Nuwen still alive?"?

[TDC]

Can you cite an example where this technique actually worked?

[TDC]

vote: Archon

First post, TDC votes Archon using Nuwen's argument.

Yes.

I don't see anything unusual in it.

"Opinion" on my bandwagon. Nuwen mirrors this later, as discussed.

Do you disagree? If you think it's unusual, why do you not comment on it?

Call.

Another TDC-Nuwen tie. TDC doesn't like that Nuwen has been voted.

My post clearly references the post directly preceding it (which as you may remember, was several posts of either of us after your vote), in which you fish for other people to give you reasons why you voted her instead of, you know, just saying them yourself.
Why are you singling me out on this? Several people enquired.

We should keep these in mind if one of them flips scum.

Is that the royal we?

[TDC]

Will you grace us with your own opinion on your wagon?

[TDC]

Well, would be boring if everyone was as good as you at this, right?

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Not sure what you mean, I didn't feel insulted by the 100:1 ratio.
Apologies if you read my reply as "disprespectful", though I have no idea how it could be.

[TDC]

I've been thinking about what Zorblag said and the connections that we all have had to each other before this game. It's very likely that one of us that have played a lot with others in this game are probably not the choosen one. That might narrow it down a bit. As, we want to keep that person alive....having them alive is a big asset to us.

Why would we want to keep someone alive who we think is not the Chosen?
That goes directly against what we should actually try to do, which is keeping alive the Chosen.

I'll be V/LA for 2 days. Posting this in all my games.

What, so you go three straight days without posting anything and then inform us of two days v/la?

I agree with PZ's analysis regarding TDC and Nuwen. Nuwen's argument is flawed from the very beginning, yet he pursued that with haste. TDC is making decisions based on others arguments and such. Seems like an easy way out for him possibly.

I pursued what? I didn't vote Archon for anything meta-related (which seems to be Nuwen's argument you qualify as flawed, correct me if I'm wrong), I voted him for refusing to "random" vote, yet offering nothing else to start off discussion.

[TDC]

One reason that I wanted Nuwen to chime in before I did this is that no one claims to have been in a game with her which is odd as apparently I found 4 people she's played with or had modding interactions with by one party or the other.

My game with Nuwen is on-going and started just a few days before this one, hence I didn't count it as "experience".

Actually, another question for everyone in the game: If you had to choose any 4 of the following players to exclude as the chosen who would you pick and why?

Archon
AshMC1984
BloodCovenent
afatchic
MiteyMouse
nadroj15
Nuwen
Papa Zito
TDC

That should be ah2190 and ClockworkRuse instead of Archon and afatchic, shouldn't it?
I need to look at games of everyone before I can say much.

[TDC]

Actually:

Mod: Can you confirm whether the Chosen was chosen before or after ah2190 and ClockworkRuse had been replaced?

[TDC]

Makes sense, I guess.

I've had a glance at how often everybody's been lynched as town, and from that I'd think:
Papa Zito, BloodCovenent and myself (though I realize I'm hardly objective on that one since I've only looked how often people got lynched (and how late in the game), while of course I know

why I

got lynched when I did.
Fourth spot could go to either Nuwen or nadroj (who is a bit of a wild card, with as far as I can see, only one completed newbie game?)
Backup if there's two scum in the above: MiteyMouse.

[TDC]

The "Makes sense, I guess" was directed at the Troll.

[TDC]

Well, afatchic also seems to get replaced rather often, so that might gain him a spot as well, hm.

[TDC]

Well what's even better than mislynching non-Chosens is lynching nobody.

Though I guess scum are not forced to nightkill either, so that would just make the game never ending. Still, seems a bit of a flaw in the setup that we don't have to lynch (rules post explicitly allows no-lynching)?

[TDC]

based entirely on my prior impression (without having done any research) of those players' relative levels of experience or skill.

You mean from this thread? I don't remember playing with you.

[TDC]

Troll: Considering that Nuwen also was in the other game, do you think that our lists have any value if she was scum?

[TDC]

I do think that the lists have value even though Nuwen was in the other game. Unless Nuwen was scum in this game her being in the other game doesn't change anything at all. Even if Nuwen was scum (and Raivann is now) the four players that Raivann lists will give us information later on to look at when determining if he was trying to manipulate us.

If we lynch someone we're pretty sure is not the Chosen (based on being hard to lynch) and that person ends up actually being the Chosen, I think it would point into Nuwen's direction.
Of course anyone could've read along with that game (or perhaps come to that conclusion without doing so), but she was actually there.
At least, it would rather speak against a scum team consisting of two relative newbies.

[TDC]

BloodCovenent, how do ClockworkRuse and MiteyMouse differ from nadroj15

and TDC

there?

Seconded.

[TDC]

Mighty Mouse : Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Nadroj15 : Joined: 25 Apr 2009
afatchick : Joined: 04 Aug 2008

Meant to write AfatChick Accidentally deleted the wrong one when I copied the list from post number 1.

How do I fit into that picture? My join date predates any of the three, yet my result is the same as nadroj's.

[TDC]

Mighty Mouse : Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Nadroj15 : Joined: 25 Apr 2009
afatchick : Joined: 04 Aug 2008

Meant to write AfatChick Accidentally deleted the wrong one when I copied the list from post number 1.

How do I fit into that picture? My join date predates any of the three, yet my result is the same as nadroj's.

Not sure, was just going down the list, didn't really research anyone's games or anything. I've heard that you were a relatively pro-town player. I'd rather have players in the keep category that were known to be clumsy and make mistakes, or ones that i have no knowledge about.

This is still making no sense, because you put me in the keep category.
Based on what you've just said (and the earlier join date argument) I should've been in other.
I'm not really sure what your motiviation would be to mislabel me, but still.

[TDC]

Why's that specifically directed at me?

Can you post the link to that game?

[TDC]

Why's that specifically directed at me?

Can you post the link to that game?

Kubrick

I don't see anything that would suggest he replaced out because he was scum.
Furthermore I remember seeing games in which he was lynched as scum (i.e. didn't replace out).
Kind of moot now that Ash's gone though..

Anyway,

unvote; vote: Raivann

. Pressure produces results.

I don't think a vote that is declared to be for pressure, actually produces pressure.

I meant we as a game there.

Second slip of that kind. Does this happen often to you?

I didn't read rule 11, and i was thinking 2 scum= no QT thread.

I didn't read the scum Pm's on the first page, and didn't realize they knew who the Chosen 1 was until Papa Zito just pointed it out.

I'm not liking this "look, I must be town, I have no idea about things scum would know" theme you've going there.

Nuwen jumped in to answer it for him and stop the line of discussion before Ash could make a slip.

You do realize that this line of thought only makes sense if Ash is scum?

[TDC]

Mighty Mouse : Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Nadroj15 : Joined: 25 Apr 2009
afatchick : Joined: 04 Aug 2008

Meant to write AfatChick Accidentally deleted the wrong one when I copied the list from post number 1.

How do I fit into that picture? My join date predates any of the three, yet my result is the same as nadroj's.

Not sure, was just going down the list, didn't really research anyone's games or anything. I've heard that you were a relatively pro-town player. I'd rather have players in the keep category that were known to be clumsy and make mistakes, or ones that i have no knowledge about.

This is still making no sense, because you put me in the keep category.
Based on what you've just said (and the earlier join date argument) I should've been in other.
I'm not really sure what your motiviation would be to mislabel me, but still.

This is still bugging me, and I don't think you've replied to it.


I agree that Raivann's list doesn't look all that random.

I also agree that the mafia's power to influence the list Troll has compiled is limited. For it to be hugely inaccurate, they would've needed to purposely reverse select the excluded.
Which, as I said, is something I would, if from anyone, expect from Nuwen. Raivann's "random" list kind of ties into that.
It allows him not to give reasons for his choices and still further the current trend (which if they reverse selected, is exactly what he'd want to do).

unvote

, I think I was still voting Archon.

Can we have a vote count?

[TDC]

It looks like Special Ed and TDC are the only ones who aren't voting at this time according to the last vote count. TDC just unvoted; I wonder who his top suspect is at the moment and why he's not voting.

I wouldn't mind a Raivann lynch. I agree that he's the best lynch of those that are really unlikely to be the Chosen.

Would still like to hear from BloodCovenent before we end the day, though.
I do realize that he's in a bit of an gray area with you and afatchic in regards of whether he could or could not be the Chosen.

I wasn't voting because I didn't know whether it'd be the hammer and I didn't want to end the day just yet.

vote: Raivann

.

First describing your experience with Mafia on this site and i total, as well as some general impressions on how Day 1 usually goes here.

You can look up all my games in my wiki, too.

Mod: With lynches now mandatory, are night kills mandatory, too? Seems unfair if they aren't.

[TDC]

Right now who would you say on your own are the least likely to be the chosen (apparently Raivann makes that list based on your vote.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

PapaZito, me, Raivann. If any of us three is the Chosen, the scum have either purposely reverse-selected or not made any effort at all to steer who the Chosen was going to be.
I had put BloodCovenant above Raivann, but I appear to be pretty alone on that.

--

BloodCovenent: Why are you ignoring my question?

[TDC]

Basically everyone has selected the above three, so I really don't see how this could've happened if it didn't make sense.

[TDC]

TDC, in that case, what are your thoughts about MiteyMouse as potential scum or the chosen at this point?

Both possible as far as I'm concerned. I don't really have a read on her, though.

As far as 2:7 mountainous goes, that's worse than F11 (the current newbie setup), and scum win that one pretty often.

[TDC]

Saying things like a random lynch "won't hit scum but might hit the Chosen one" is a scare tactic. And it's also factually incorrect: a random lynch is twice as likely to hit scum as it is to hit the Chosen.

@Mod: Could you clarify this? Are the scum potential targets for the random lynch?

Either way, I think it should be avoided, but knowing is better than not knowing.

concerned?

Can. You. Answer. My. Question.

[TDC]

Mighty Mouse : Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Nadroj15 : Joined: 25 Apr 2009
afatchick : Joined: 04 Aug 2008

Meant to write AfatChick Accidentally deleted the wrong one when I copied the list from post number 1.

How do I fit into that picture? My join date predates any of the three, yet my result is the same as nadroj's.

Not sure, was just going down the list, didn't really research anyone's games or anything. I've heard that you were a relatively pro-town player. I'd rather have players in the keep category that were known to be clumsy and make mistakes, or ones that i have no knowledge about.

This is still making no sense, because you put me in the keep category.
Based on what you've just said (and the earlier join date argument) I should've been in other.
I'm not really sure what your motiviation would be to mislabel me, but still.

This is still bugging me, and I don't think you've replied to it.

[TDC]

What I don't like about this answer (besides that it took so long to get it) is that you don't want to actually change your list, despite it being obvious it's wrong.

Whom will you exchange me with?

[TDC]

Okay, so the synposis of the past page is that MM plays slightly differently on facebook.

I still agree with the Troll that given how little information we have, not lynching the Chosen is much easier (both by pure chance and through deduction) than lynching scum.
And provides much more information if it fails.

[TDC]

Raivann

:

Zorblag

,

afatchic

,

Nuwen

,

Papa Zito

(random as he doesn't know the players in the game)

Did anyone else notice that Rai excluded himself?

Which tells you what?

[TDC]

Hooray.

Not sure about the balance. But if you add a third goon, you probably need another townie, too?

[TDC]

dj: But dry-fit's problem was not mitey anyway. Had mitey been lynched, he still would've lost. He needed to get Hero lynched.
Hero's choice didn't matter either. The game was decided when Hero was confirmed.
Which makes dry-fit's mitey vote pretty much a losing strategy, because it was bound to do just that.

[TDC]

Hm, didn't consider that. Good point.
Either way, at that point 2 of the 3 possible lynches ended in town win.