Mini 811: Foggy Londontown Mafia - Over!

[SerialClergyman]

Goddammit Hero, take a deep breath ><

WOW WHEN DID I SAY HE COULDN'T BE SCUM PLEASE POINT IT OUT

Hero argument: He acts like an idiot all the time, I don't think he's scum
SC's argument: Just because he's acting like an idiot doesn't mean he's not scum this time.

See? No need to get your panties in a twist. I'm just pointing out that your meta argument doesn't clear him, which we agree on. So now we're in agreement that the meta argument doesn't clear him, we can point out his scumminess, what's significant in this game compared ot his general meta approach, detailed in my first posti n the game at 391.

He's not an idiot for telling us he's scum, it's a slip. His point about the meta was made in relation to a completely different matter. He didn't realise that in telling us his idea of optimal scum play he was specifically describing his own play so far. Luckily for us, he did and we can analyse his play in that context rather than in a meta context and see he is playing exactly how he thinks scum should play.

Your kind inrepretation is in 73, 79, 86, 102, 108, 131, 244. This is what I mean when I use those words. You don't have to go over how legit you think they are, I know you don't agree you were interpretting him kindly, but I think you did.

You still neglect to address what was significant about my history made it significant,

Your kind interpretations of him and defending of him make you specifically derailing his wagon more significant because it completes a pattern. You seem to do whatever you can to draw suspicion away from FC. It was so significant, kiku thought you must be masons with him to justify just how much you don't want him lynched. I can't answer that question any more thoroughly.

I think I'm guilty of Albert's noob sin, trying to convince those you're attacking. And in addition, I'm spamming the thread. So this'll be my last post until there's some more input from some more people, I think. I'll be around though, os if you say something utterly outrageous you might draw me in to another post, Hero

Vote Count Ten

Far_Cry: 5 (kikuchiyo, nadroj15, qwints, SerialClergyman, dank)
nadroj15: 3 (Hero 764, Far_Cry, Lowell)
qwints: 1 (iamausername)

Not Voting: 3 (Mokina, Nikanor, Tenchi)

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

Current deadline: Saturday, July 18th 8:10 AM EST

[SerialClergyman]

Welcome also. I just replaced in too. The re-read isn't bad (replaced into a game with Mastin a week or two ago)

[Nikanor]

Anyway, I'm going to try to get through this topic tonight, and post late tomorrow night.

[Nikanor]

replaced into a game with Mastin a week or two ago

You poor sap. ^_^

[DraketheFake]

Those of you who understand what I'm talking about: That person is not actually a replacement in this game. Deleted and edited where I thought necessary.

Also, I

prodded

nadroj15.

[Hero764]

Goddammit Hero, take a deep breath ><

Sorry It just gets frustrating when you

still

misunderstand me after all of this.

Hero argument: He acts like an idiot all the time, I don't think he's scum
SC's argument: Just because he's acting like an idiot doesn't mean he's not scum this time.

That isn't what it sounded like you said.

He's not an idiot for telling us he's scum, it's a slip. His point about the meta was made in relation to a completely different matter. He didn't realise that in telling us his idea of optimal scum play he was specifically describing his own play so far. Luckily for us, he did and we can analyse his play in that context rather than in a meta context and see he is playing exactly how he thinks scum should play.

I personally just don't see that as a slip. I know you might, but I just don't. I can't explain it any more than I already have.

Your kind inrepretation is in 73, 79, 86, 102, 108, 131, 244. This is what I mean when I use those words. You don't have to go over how legit you think they are, I know you don't agree you were interpretting him kindly, but I think you did.

First three - maybe. I admit it was a newb moment of mine, not realizing the consequences of answering for someone. The last ones though, I'd like you to explain how I was interpreting his statements, kindly or not.

Your kind interpretations of him and defending of him make you specifically derailing his wagon more significant because it completes a pattern. You seem to do whatever you can to draw suspicion away from FC. It was so significant, kiku thought you must be masons with him to justify just how much you don't want him lynched. I can't answer that question any more thoroughly.

Again, dank was responsible for derailing the wagon, not me. And kiku was simply wrong, I don't see how what she thinks should dictate how significant it is. If I was so concerned with drawing suspicion from FC, why have I attacked him numerous times in this thread?

[SerialClergyman]

No worries mate, I know how it feels!

True to my word, I'll leave off ocmmmenting for fear of spamming + going around in circles.

You poor sap. ^_^

[kikuchiyo]

Yeah because I didn't know if CJMiller was just an idiot in general or if he was just acting incredibly scummy. I know FC is just an idiot in general, and there's no reason to lynch him just based on his playstyle.

No. You don't know that. You are masons with Mokina, remember?

Besides FC's meta, which makes nadroj much scummier, the bolded worries me.

Why would the bolded worry you if you are not scum? Also, why would the bolded worry you one bit if you think FC is town? i.e. if he flips town, SC has said that would most likely clear you, if he flips scum then town would have lynched scum on day 1. What's the part that "worries" you? That you will be under scrutiny tomorrow if town nails scum day 1. Seems like a worthwhile trade off to me. Not wanting to lynch scum to keep yourself out of the limelight is something scum does. Please explain this.

Remember our newbie game with CJMiller? He acted just as bad, if not worse than Far_Cry, and ended up getting lynched for it. He flipped townie. It wasn't that his posts were scummy, his playstyle was just terrible. Far_Cry is in the same boat.

I remember this game. Town won. FC isn't exactly in the same boat imo. This is a different game. Its day 1. Let's lynch FC and move on. His flip will only help us.

[Hero764]

No. You don't know that. You are masons with Mokina, remember?

What does me being a mason have to do with anything?

Why would the bolded worry you if you are not scum? Also, why would the bolded worry you one bit if you think FC is town? i.e. if he flips town, SC has said that would most likely clear you, if he flips scum then town would have lynched scum on day 1. What's the part that "worries" you? That you will be under scrutiny tomorrow if town nails scum day 1. Seems like a worthwhile trade off to me. Not wanting to lynch scum to keep yourself out of the limelight is something scum does. Please explain this.

I'm not completely against the lynch because of that, but obviously if it could potentially lead to my lynch(as a mason) it would worry me. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

I remember this game. Town won. FC isn't exactly in the same boat imo. This is a different game. Its day 1. Let's lynch FC and move on. His flip will only help us.

It doesn't matter who won. We made a mistake based on someone's playstyle and lynched a townie for it. I never once said lynching FC would guarantee a townie lynch or that we would end up losing the game because of him. nadroj is just the better lynch candidate.

[Far_Cry]

Yeah because I didn't know if CJMiller was just an idiot in general or if he was just acting incredibly scummy. I know FC is just an idiot in general, and there's no reason to lynch him just based on his playstyle.

No. You don't know that. You are masons with Mokina, remember?

Besides FC's meta, which makes nadroj much scummier, the bolded worries me.

Why would the bolded worry you if you are not scum? Also, why would the bolded worry you one bit if you think FC is town? i.e. if he flips town, SC has said that would most likely clear you, if he flips scum then town would have lynched scum on day 1. What's the part that "worries" you? That you will be under scrutiny tomorrow if town nails scum day 1. Seems like a worthwhile trade off to me. Not wanting to lynch scum to keep yourself out of the limelight is something scum does. Please explain this.

Remember our newbie game with CJMiller? He acted just as bad, if not worse than Far_Cry, and ended up getting lynched for it. He flipped townie. It wasn't that his posts were scummy, his playstyle was just terrible. Far_Cry is in the same boat.

I remember this game. Town won. FC isn't exactly in the same boat imo. This is a different game. Its day 1. Let's lynch FC and move on. His flip will only help us.

From my understanding of wat u said, kiku, I'm a worthless piece of shit that needs to be thrown out the window for the sake of yourself and others. Seems to me ur attempting to push a mislynch.

[qwints]

I'm a worthless piece of shit that needs to be thrown out the window

QFT

[iamausername]

It's definitely possible Hero wanted to vote Nadroj because he thought he was scummy. But the timing of it is extremely suspicious to me, isn't it to you?

In a word, no. He voted nadroj at that time, because that was when nadroj did something scummy. It wouldn't make sense for him to vote nadroj at any other time.

@ all Can anyone give me a good reason why we shouldn't lynch FC given he's the scummiest player on the town and his death would either close to confirm two townies or two scum?

Him being the scummiest player in the town is a matter of opinion that I happen to disagree with you on. (Although I will say that your point that the way he says he would act as scum is exactly how he is acting, that's a good point. I am a lot more sold on an FC lynch than I was before you brought that up.)

His death confirming two townies or two scum, that is total tripe. Well, no, if FC flipped scum, I think that would more or less confirm Hero (and by extension, Mokina). As TOWN. Because it makes absolutely zero sense for scum Hero to come under attack for defending one of his scum partners, and claim mason with his

other

partner. If Hero was scum with FC, he would not have claimed mason with anyone but FC. No way, no how.

---

FC, while you're here, I think this:

Well... I'm just saying that, if I were mafia, pushing so openly for a lynch would be against my playing style. I mean, if I were mafia, I wouldn't want to draw so much attention. Who would want to? As mafia, I would contribute, but not try to be SO open and draw suspicion to myself.

Why hasn't he been lynched yet?

Far Cry has been the most consistently scummy player all game and he SPECIFICALLY DESCRIBES HIS OWN SCUMMY PLAYSTYLE AS HOW HE WOULD PLAY IF SCUM. He hasn't pushed openly for a lynch, he has deliberately posted wishy-washy crap like 61, 96, 171, 271, 337, 340....

is a very good point. Do you have anything to say about it?

[Lowell]

The way farcry says "attempting to push a mislych" in 434 is strange. It's a dumb way of looking at things if you're town, as you'd know there's a chance your accuser is town too.

unvote, vote farcry

. He's rattled. I'm sold.

[dank]

If we lynch FC, who has been scummy all day (although being scummy is apparently his meta):

A- He flips scum. Yay. Lots of leads.

B- He flips town.
1. His play was flat out antitown and not helping us anyway, it was only a huge distraction.
2. We can more or less confirm the masons.
3. Bandwagon analysis- FC was the easiest target in the game, it wouldn't be surprising at all if at least one of the scum jumped on at some point.

I voted nad instead of FC because FC's meta was holding me back, kind of like hero's reasoning lately has been (he's like this in every game). When you think about it more, like others have said, not only can we gain the most from his lynch, but we can also remove an anti-town player who frankly doesnt help us. Think about it, if we excuse FC's scummy play now, will we excuse it for the rest of the game? Just because he has a horrible gameplay doesn't mean we let him slide through if he's acting scummy. The meta reasoning for his lynch was keeping me more towards nad, but with more thought, I think its more of a reason to lynch him than not.

Not that nad isn't suspicious. I think they're about even, but the reasons above pushes FC over nad for me. Hence the change.

L-1 now. FC, claim.

[Far_Cry]

It's definitely possible Hero wanted to vote Nadroj because he thought he was scummy. But the timing of it is extremely suspicious to me, isn't it to you?

In a word, no. He voted nadroj at that time, because that was when nadroj did something scummy. It wouldn't make sense for him to vote nadroj at any other time.

@ all Can anyone give me a good reason why we shouldn't lynch FC given he's the scummiest player on the town and his death would either close to confirm two townies or two scum?

Him being the scummiest player in the town is a matter of opinion that I happen to disagree with you on. (Although I will say that your point that the way he says he would act as scum is exactly how he is acting, that's a good point. I am a lot more sold on an FC lynch than I was before you brought that up.)

His death confirming two townies or two scum, that is total tripe. Well, no, if FC flipped scum, I think that would more or less confirm Hero (and by extension, Mokina). As TOWN. Because it makes absolutely zero sense for scum Hero to come under attack for defending one of his scum partners, and claim mason with his

other

partner. If Hero was scum with FC, he would not have claimed mason with anyone but FC. No way, no how.

---

FC, while you're here, I think this:

Well... I'm just saying that, if I were mafia, pushing so openly for a lynch would be against my playing style. I mean, if I were mafia, I wouldn't want to draw so much attention. Who would want to? As mafia, I would contribute, but not try to be SO open and draw suspicion to myself.

Why hasn't he been lynched yet?

Far Cry has been the most consistently scummy player all game and he SPECIFICALLY DESCRIBES HIS OWN SCUMMY PLAYSTYLE AS HOW HE WOULD PLAY IF SCUM. He hasn't pushed openly for a lynch, he has deliberately posted wishy-washy crap like 61, 96, 171, 271, 337, 340....

is a very good point. Do you have anything to say about it?

About wat u said last, wat SC said was true, but I don't rly have anyone to openly push a lynch on, yet.

If we lynch FC, who has been scummy all day (although being scummy is apparently his meta):

A- He flips scum. Yay. Lots of leads.

B- He flips town.
1. His play was flat out antitown and not helping us anyway, it was only a huge distraction.
2. We can more or less confirm the masons.
3. Bandwagon analysis- FC was the easiest target in the game, it wouldn't be surprising at all if at least one of the scum jumped on at some point.

I voted nad instead of FC because FC's meta was holding me back, kind of like hero's reasoning lately has been (he's like this in every game). When you think about it more, like others have said, not only can we gain the most from his lynch, but we can also remove an anti-town player who frankly doesnt help us. Think about it, if we excuse FC's scummy play now, will we excuse it for the rest of the game? Just because he has a horrible gameplay doesn't mean we let him slide through if he's acting scummy. The meta reasoning for his lynch was keeping me more towards nad, but with more thought, I think its more of a reason to lynch him than not.

Not that nad isn't suspicious. I think they're about even, but the reasons above pushes FC over nad for me. Hence the change.

L-1 now. FC, claim.

Let me ask u question. What if I flip up Jester? Then wat would u do?

Many of this is, if he flips up town, this and this will happen. If he flips up mafia, then this and this will happen. And what about third-party roles?

Now, I have to say this. I won't deny that dank is right. Even if I flip up town, I was still a worthless nothing and not contributing. However, wat if i flip up a town power role? That's still bad for town, right?

And tell me. If I flip up town, how will kiku look?

[dank]

Thats why i'm asking you to roleclaim right now.

[qwints]

Claim or die.

[Far_Cry]

I

claim: doctor

[dank]

fair enough.

unvote

[kikuchiyo]

Unvote

Any breadcrumbs from you?

[qwints]

B.S.

but

unvote

for now.

[kikuchiyo]

I'd lynch him with a counterclaim, but otherwise I can't see it as B.S.

[dank]

^^Agreed. Doc is such a ridiculously common role that I can't see scum trying to fake claim it when they're backed into a corner. Even if they do, chances are there's a counter.

[dank]

qwints- why do you think its BS?

[qwints]

^^Agreed. Doc is such a ridiculously common role that I can't see scum trying to fake claim it when they're backed into a corner. Even if they do, chances are there's a counter.

You've never seen someone fake-claim doc? I've seen it at least twice.

On the counter issue: the real doc (if there is one) should not counter-claim. FC (assuming he's scum) is trying to trade his life for the docs. Don't let him. The doc should only counter the day before lylo.