Newbie 803 - Game Over.

[Einlanzers]

I don't like when people preemptively opt out of responsibility for a possible lynch. I think Ein is probably a townie, yes partly because of his recent posting, but mostly because this game is never that simple. Scum in newbie games like to fall back on 'textbook scum tells' to lynch newer players, and there aren't really any consequences to railroading them since you have cited your sources. However, you also have cases where the scum get to just watch townies lynch eachother, but I get the feeling the Ein wagon had some scum squatting on it. And I think Santos is one of them. A lot of his posts for a while were just comments on how the role I replaced into was not active, and he was even called on posting without really saying anything and was just kind of snarky in response.

vote: Santos

Actually,

unvote

calling it. Chia/Jammer. Read over their games, see their interactions.

vote: chiarosicada

I am not as certain about jammer, he is not reciprocating the love as much as chia's giving it.

yeah, chi thing isn't happening. I guess my deal with Santos was partly that he seemed almost too perfect as a scum candidate, and hitting scum for strong reasons day one is still kind of my white whale. Let's find out.

unvote vote: santos

do or die

Here's what I get out of this (this is what Head Honcho is thinking):
1) I point the blame at Santos to deter attention away from myself (and possibly Porkens)
2) I get annoyed with Chia and think that possibly pushing a bandwagon after him would be a good idea.
3) The bandwagon on Chia has failed to pick up steam and Santos is now at L-1. I can hammer him!

So it would appear most logical that the pair of HH/Porkens would make the most sense at this time.

[Col.Cathart]

@ Col- You brought up the fact that Santos posted in "useless one liners" and was making the game chaotic, so thus even if he was town you would be happy with his lynch. So my question is has Porkens been more beneficial in this game then Santos was? What about my witty one liners?

Porkens - I cannot believe

it's not butter

he's an IC player. Definitely he's not acting like one. Low post frequency, usually no real explanation following his decisions. His posts about lynching Ein were really confusing (Joke? Knowledge, only he has?). Right now, he's in an obvious wagon against Santos. IMO he has high probability of being a scum, and yet, still not as high, as Santos...

Here's your answer. Actually, his last post, while truth, still brings nothing to the discussion, so once again he's not helping himself.

And about you. Well, I assumed that Santos was the ignition spark of the 'Bandwagon Wars" stupidity, so I tried to Ignore yours and Baltars *khem* 'witty one liners'. The next few threads will show, if I was right or wrong.

And BTW HV: I assume, that Porkens is still your main suspect, and I know your reasons to think so. Anyone else looks suspicious to you?

[Zorblag]

Vote Count 2.1

The numbers by the voters indicate the order in which the vote was cast. If two or more players are tied for the most votes to lynch at the deadline the tiebreaker will be the player who has the earliest active vote.

Head_Honcho: 2: Chiarosicada (1), Einlanzers (2)

Not voting: Col.Cathart, Head_Honcho, Hurleys_Van, jammer, Porkens

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Currently Head_Honcho would be lynched at deadline. Deadline is 3:00 PM EDT/12:00 PM PDT on Tuesday, July 28th.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Hurleys_Van]

@Col.

I think that the cases brought up against HH have good riddance, but I'd still be more happy with a Porkens Lynch...at least Head_Honcho tries to defend himself =\

and with that said

Vote: Porkens

[Porkens]

I've played like crap; I won't deny it. However, I defy you to point out any non-lurker related scumtells.

[Santos]

9. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.

[jammer]

@HH, The question was why did you wait that long with refering to a meta of Santos. While I already pointed out his meta was scummy. Why not refer or check it yourself earlier?

As you put me together with Chia as the scumpair. I can miss something obvious. Is this only becouse Chia puts me low in his scumlist?


@Porkens, it helps if you start giving your thoughs. And not continue playing like crap.

[Head_Honcho]

Oh, you thought his meta was scummy? I thought at worst it was a null tell, and a slight yet weak town tell. I checked it when he posted it, I didn't bring it up because I thought it was weak on its own. Doot doot doot. HV: What do you mean by the case having good riddance? Does that mean it's a good case?

Ein: That doesn't make any sense at all. Frankly, I don't think people would have cared if I had stuck with the Santos lynch, and I think the Santos lynch still would have happened. Does any of this actually make sense as to

why

that would make me scum? I notice you happen to use the word 'annoyed', how does that come into play? What leads you to think that?

[Einlanzers]

HH, I just re-read the past 5 pages and didn't see any Chia/Jammer cooperation going on at all. In fact I don't see anything overly scummy about Chia from any of it. To me this makes you look MORE scummy. Furthermore after reading over it...you seem to be defending Porkens an awful lot. At this point a HH/Porkens pair seems quite possible.

[Head_Honcho]

You're ignoring my point. You think I'm wrong, okay, why does that make me scum? I also think you'll notice I didn't so much defend porkens as I did point out the flaws in the case against him, which Chia just recently admitted was bad. So why does that make me scum?

[Chiarosicada]

I'm just popping in to say that I'll be leaving for LA tomorrow night and won't be able to post again until Saturday morning. I'll try to make a post with decent length tomorrow, before I leave.

[jammer]

HH: I thought his meta was scummy->some actions null-tell.

I just refered to it, becouse it was a argument why you doubted Santos as mafia. I wondered why you didn't mention the doubt at all until that late in the day when the lynch was not stoppable.

If you make the meta a null-tell, then it seems you though Santos was town on a gut level. Not quite sure what to make out of that.

[Head_Honcho]

You realize that I didn't bring it up yesterday, right? The meta was what gave me doubt in the first place, but I didn't think it was a good point to argue his towniness. I wasn't even necessarily convinced he was a townie at that point, I just thought he was less scummy than Chia since his play had been pretty consistent under pressure. I brought up the meta in retrospect because I was being told there was no way I could have called him as a townie unless I had extra knowledge, so I provided the meta as part of my process towards that, which it was.

[jammer]

Basically Santos gave consistant anwsers, altrough scummy. Made you think he was less mafia. I find it a little weak, to be honest.

And Chia was inconsistant with some statements. You think he is mafia for that reason. You do have some points, but far from Santos in scummyness at that time.

Maybe your gut-level is just better then mine. But I find it hard to believe you found Chia more scummy then Santos.

[Head_Honcho]

Yes, because some of those scummy things he was being called on specifically but he still continued to do them. So that had me thinking if he was scum he would be less apt to continue SPECIFIC behavior that had been listed, and to be frank I started to feel like we were lynching someone for being what some might call a bad poster and kind of a stubborn jerk off more than lynching for scum.

Look bro, I'm not trying to say I was betting the farm on him being town. Hell, I hammered him. I had legitimate doubts, and you probably know as well as I do that generally you have to look deeper for scum than who is loudly posting themselves into a corner. But I decided to go with my initial impression and hammer him, as to some extent I had a lot vested in the Santos wagon and I felt like I was just letting myself lose my nerve when it was actually getting close to flipping time.

So maybe my 'gut-level' is better than yours. What of it? Chia declared my actions to be the logical scum actions. Are they? Does that really make any sense?

I would really love it if some more people were posting.

Especially

Porkens. You're our IC, there's definitely stuff to talk about, please get with it.

[Head_Honcho]

I've played like crap; I won't deny it. However, I defy you to point out any non-lurker related scumtells.

Here's a scum tell, you choose to post this instead of responding to the vast number of game related posts already made this day.

[jammer]

About your actions being "logical scum actions". Santos made "logical scum actions" and was town. I could see the actions flipping both sides.

I'm actually more interesting why Chia, Ein, HV and Col.(I think, could be wrong about him). Are voting or leaning towards voting you. Becouse I don't see yet how the case against you, is strong enough to make you a lynch candidate.

I'm more leaning towards Chia as mafia, but I would like to be confinced.

I've played like crap; I won't deny it. However, I defy you to point out any non-lurker related scumtells.

Here's a scum tell, you choose to post this instead of responding to the vast number of game related posts already made this day.

Lurker-related.

[Porkens]

You realize that I didn't bring it up yesterday, right? The meta was what gave me doubt in the first place, but I didn't think it was a good point to argue his towniness. I wasn't even necessarily convinced he was a townie at that point, I just thought he was less scummy than Chia since his play had been pretty consistent under pressure. I brought up the meta in retrospect because I was being told there was no way I could have called him as a townie unless I had extra knowledge, so I provided the meta as part of my process towards that, which it was.

This sounds really round-about and evasive to me.

vote; head honcho

fine with this lynch.

[Head_Honcho]

color me underwhelmed

[jammer]

Just the way Porkens votes, seems without much though to put someone at L-1.
Porkens, anything else to add, anything?

Ok, while we wait for the other players to post something.

HH,
What do you think about the intentions of the players on your wagon?
I.E. Chia, Ein and Porkens.

[Einlanzers]

Unvote

Vote: Porkens

OK I got what I was looking for . I do think H_H is scummy but I was waiting for Porkens to hop on the wagon to prove that they are not partners as I think Porkens is the scummier one at this point (for obvious reasons).

[Col.Cathart]

I'm actually more interesting why Chia, Ein, HV and Col.(I think, could be wrong about him). Are voting or leaning towards voting you.

You're right. I mean, you are wrong about me

Though I don't like any single bit of HH sudden hammer and his weird vote-switching on day 1, it's still definitely not enough to even lay FoS on him, not to mention any vote.

In fact...

You realize that I didn't bring it up yesterday, right? The meta was what gave me doubt in the first place, but I didn't think it was a good point to argue his towniness. I wasn't even necessarily convinced he was a townie at that point, I just thought he was less scummy than Chia since his play had been pretty consistent under pressure. I brought up the meta in retrospect because I was being told there was no way I could have called him as a townie unless I had extra knowledge, so I provided the meta as part of my process towards that, which it was.

This sounds really round-about and evasive to me. vote; head honcho

fine with this lynch.

Oh come on. That wast extremely weak. Following your logic, everyone who defends himself against accusation is evasive and round-about.

Not to mention, that actually YOU are the person who avoids answering accusations thrown by the others. HH's answers are more or lest consistent, but we can at least get his point, whether we are accepting it, or not. You on the other hand? Someone points you're lurking (as we know, scummy thing). Your response? 'There's no other scumtells on my part'. Well, duh. That's pretty obvious, since you are lurking so much, that no one can actually tell anything about you, except from the fact, you're lurking. Maybe we don't have any non-lurker related tells, but your lurker-related are IMO big enough to place a vote on you. And now this sudden L-1 vote on HH. Are you hoping, that someone will drop random hammer, so you're safe for day 3 (impossible now, as Ein changed his vote, but how could you know that)?

Heavy FoS - Porkens

If you're a townie, then defend yourself. Explain properly your vote on HH. Analyze other people plays. ANYTHING. Just play this goddamn game. If you're a scum, then we're lucky, because that would mean, you're playing scum really crappy.

I'm giving you 48 hours. Defend yourself (and I expect something more, than just another one-liner). Otherwise, my FoS will change into vote.

[Hurleys_Van]

Well, I'm not sure what really else needs to be said about Porkens to be honest.

I'd like too see if he ever manages to get the cat to let go of his tongue.

[Porkens]

I'm fine with lynching HH; and this "gambit" by lazers has put him as my #2 suspect. 90% of the time, in my experience "traps" are sprung by scum.

[Chiarosicada]

Eh this relentless wagoning by Porkens makes me want him lynched, but at the same time I want his vote for HH's lynch...

I suppose the bottom line is that it'll be easier to determine HH's alignment over Porkens' alignment on day 3 (assuming we lynch one of them), but I find HH individually scummier than Porkens. A generous explanation for Porkens' behavior could just be that he's a bored IC or something. Does anyone know if it's consistent with his meta?

What I had mentioned as one of my big points, and something you still haven't really answered, is how exactly you thought the Santos wagon was scum driven.

I think that the wagon went too quickly to not have scum on it. Although town has good reason to vote Santos, it's also an excellent time for scum to slip a vote in with the momentum. In my limited experience, quicker wagons tend to be powered by scum. In this particular game, it's Porkens that I see on both wagons that I don't like.

This, plus a bit of gut.