Webcomic Wars Mafia: D7- Be Thankful I'm Not The Author

[Santos]

hence, the debate of: was it right or wrong to use it in the newbie thread. I now lean towards not using it because it is a newbie thread. I don't know how to make that make sense to you, but it just isn't 'right' you know?

anyway, back to you having the most votes...

[Lamont_Cranston]

I have seen him play well before

My meta of Santos, spanning 2 games, is the exact opposite.

He has a tendency to, as Town, think he's coming into Mafia with ideas no one has ever had before, and that he's completely solving the game.

Well the entire quote is:

I have seen him play well before and

he might just be using this as a cover for his soft-claim

...

[Santos]

My meta of Santos, spanning 2 games, is the exact opposite.

He has a tendency to, as Town, think he's coming into Mafia with ideas no one has ever had before, and that he's completely solving the game.

While you were an IC, I expected more constructive criticism. However, you were pounding on the townies that were lynched. You had no problem with that. Hence, why I said you were not scum hunting in that game, Sens.

I could say the same is apparent in this game, but more with the players who have longer tenure at this site. They're all going after Lamont saying he is spastic and has no clear line of thought(s). So they vote him.

[Santos]

I have seen him play well before

Haha! Highly debatable and probably not even worth saying, Lamont. May I ask where you've seen this?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I have seen him play well before

Haha! Highly debatable and probably not even worth saying, Lamont. May I ask where you've seen this?

Funny thing. That's the same thing the scum said in the other game when I pointed out he was playing better than a first-time newb. As it turned out he HAD put in some effort in studying other games.

I have seen you in a couple of games and you have a better understanding of the game than a newb. I suspect you have offsite experience.

[Santos]

oh, change 'tenure' to 'experience' as I'm sure Lamont and myself don't fall under either category.

[Gorrad]

I would like to take this opportunity to remind the assembled players that any quoting of role PMs is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is allowed, as it would be in a typical Mafia game.

A rule of thumb: If what you say about your role PM breaks the game in any way, shape, or form, it's not allowed. If what you say does absolutley anything other than divulge flavor and ability information, it's not allowed.

Things that are allowed:
Role Name
Flavor Text (paraphrased)
Ability name
Ability description
The link to the comic your character comes from, as included in everyone's role PM.

Anything that does not follow the above may constitute a banning offense. If you have any question as to whether something is allowed, send me a PM.

Thank you!

-Gorrad

[Santos]

I will tell you I play on another site and have hosted mafias before. Everyone is a newbie and have to play several newbie games before venturing elsewhere here. Also, just because I have experience elsewhere doesn't mean I'm any good. Why do you think I continue to play Newbie games and not try to become an IC? I'm not that great at playing yet.

[Santos]

well crap, never mind on the confirming you by part of your role PM, Lamont.

I often have trouble discerning the rules between here and where I play. Things like paraphrasing the role pm here has a harsher punishment if done incorrectly. Also, things like posting the win conditions in the OP gives everything away. its like a scum's wet dream to have that information.

[Vino]

I was on the fence about whether Santos was a foundering newbie or an obvious scum. I'm going to go with SensFan for now, since he knows the meta better than I and it seems to match.

[the silent speaker]

I never said "everyone" on the bandwagon was town. And I never claimed you claimed everyone was scum.

Bollocks. You said:

A

town

starts a wagon on another

town

and then

a bunch of other town

join it and somehow it's a setup for something?

Clearly assuming that everyone who joined was town. If you concede that some of the people who joined could have been scum, then why

shouldn't

it be a setup of something on their part?

@Everyone else: ask yourselves this -- if I'm completely off the mark, why did Korlash react with such vehemence to a post not even directed at him? If Korlash is town, why fly off the handle the way he did?

[Lamont_Cranston]

I definitely support the overall theory that scum would be on the Vino wagon. That would be someone from the list of:

Korlash, Rofl, Tajo

[Korlash]

Clearly assuming that everyone who joined was town. If you concede that some of the people who joined could have been scum, then why shouldn't it be a setup of something on their part?

Where in the English dictionary does the phrase "A bunch of" mean the equivalent of "Everyone"?

And if the wagon was started by a town it can't have been a setup by the mafia. Unless you're telling me the town who started the wagon talked with them beforehand and set it up.

@Everyone else: ask yourselves this -- if I'm completely off the mark, why did Korlash react with such vehemence to a post not even directed at him? If Korlash is town, why fly off the handle the way he did?

It was directed at me. I was on the Vino wagon at the time. You suggesting it was a scum set-up directed it specifically at me and the other wagoners. You don't even know who you are talkiing to when you post?

And explain where I "flew off the handle"? When you accused me and three others of being scum with a masterplan, or the part where you FOSed yourself?

[Korlash]

Double posted for your viewing pleasure!

I definitely support the overall theory that scum would be on the Vino wagon. That would be someone from the list of:

Korlash, Rofl, Tajo

You support the theory that out of 25 players one specific RANDOM wagon of 4 people HAS to have at least one scum? In a 12 player game, sure. Probability wise I suppose it makes sense. But a 4 person wagon in a 25 player game doesn't carry that same weight.

Also it being a random wagon increase the odds town is on it because it wasn't made on real reasons, thus there was nothing preventing town from joining.

This is also assuming Vino is town and Fishy is town, which neither has even been suggested with evidence. Unless you know something I don't....

[Lamont_Cranston]

Double posted for your viewing pleasure!

I definitely support the overall theory that scum would be on the Vino wagon. That would be someone from the list of:

Korlash, Rofl, Tajo

You support the theory that out of 25 players one specific RANDOM wagon of 4 people HAS to have at least one scum? In a 12 player game, sure. Probability wise I suppose it makes sense. But a 4 person wagon in a 25 player game doesn't carry that same weight.

Also it being a random wagon increase the odds town is on it because it wasn't made on real reasons, thus there was nothing preventing town from joining.

This is also assuming Vino is town and Fishy is town, which neither has even been suggested with evidence. Unless you know something I don't....

Very nicely said. I would say that the odds increase of the player being scum for each player already on the wagon. So the least chance would be Fishy & the greatest chance would be Tajo.

[Percy]

I would expect better arguments from an accomplished player with his reputation. The poor quality on some of them raises my suspicion.

The reason you think they are bad arguments is that they're directed at you. I haven't seen any other player even suggest that they think Tar's points are weak. In fact, they're pretty good, for the most part, and your reactions aren't.

I have queried Vino and found the accused link between him and Rofl to be false and thus the motivations for lynching him to be false.

The motivations for lynching him had nothing to do with this connection. You asked fishy this question, and he answered you.

I think it was a scum attempt to manipulate the playerbase because it did manipulate the playerbase. Look what happened right after: a big spike in Lamont voting.

As far as I can tell, there is no case on Vino. Fishy came out with a vote on him for no reason given, which by itself is perfectly fine, and a whole bunch of people jumped right in line with "yep, uh-huh, Fishy is wise." For Sens to say even now that Vino is so terribly scummy that the only thing worse is Lamont's defense is just not true.

Whilst I can concede that Sens didn't have much to go on in declaring Vino scummy, you have a long way to go if you want to prove that his actions were

deliberately designed

to get people to vote

Lamont

. I just don't buy it.

However, Korlash did imply that the others "joining in" were town, which was not implied by you - in fact, the exact opposite. Hmmm.

Actually no, in order to mislynch Fishy town are needed. In fact in order to mislynch Vino town are needed. In order for it to be a set-up, town must also join the bandwagon. If only scum vote, no one is mislynched. are you following me?

Oh, sure, I follow you, but that's not what you said. In fact, the silent speaker mentioned this in his latest post:

I never said "everyone" on the bandwagon was town. And I never claimed you claimed everyone was scum.

Bollocks. You said:

A

town

starts a wagon on another

town

and then

a bunch of other town

join it and somehow it's a setup for something?

Clearly assuming that everyone who joined was town. If you concede that some of the people who joined could have been scum, then why

shouldn't

it be a setup of something on their part?

Now the 1-2 mislynch theory is bullshit, because it's just too damn hard to pull that off with a 13 player lynch today and an 11 player lynch tomorrow. But you didn't say what you suggested you said...

Your original post seems to suggest that you thought the others joining in were town as well, at that time. You mentioned this to disprove the theory that the scum were jumping on to hasten a bad wagon started by another townie - you basically said that the scum didn't jump on.

Oh, and good grief people.

Soft claim for the fucking lose.

I pointed out their poor quality, should I have congratulated him for scumhunting?

False dichotomies: favourite logical fallacy of evangelical preachers and scum.

While I agree with most of Percy's 129

Ideally, everyone should be posting once per day with critical analysis of the game. That would be awesome.

is just naive and idealistic.(I realize he says "ideally", but still) That's never going to happen.

Oh yeah, for sure. I don't want anyone getting the impression that it's OK to post less because this is a big game, though.

I've been conditioned not to care much about what I say in Mafia because it gets interpreted as scummy no matter what. Possibly due to my personality.

FoS

.

Post 146 by Vino: I'm not sure why you're voting for SensFan here? at all?

Because I want to. I sense a subtle defense of SensFan from you, what's the deal?

Because you want to?

Also, I see no defense.

Double FoS

.

The motivation I'm seeing from Lamont is an attempt to discredit my case against it by using spin

QFT.

Once again a player of your talents making such a big deal out of this is really over the top, and WHY?

Urgh.

Lemme get this straight...

*You specifically want to vote someone wagonning Vino
*Vino makes a post saying I should know better than to think he's scummy
*You thank him for 'making up your mind for you'
*You vote me

You realize I never voted Vino, right? So, you know, your whole premise that you're voting for a Vino BWer is false.

Not to mention 'I've been looking to vote for someone whose BWing this other person early D1' is one of the scummiest things I've ever heard.Its not that bad.

Whoops. Dam sorry. Sometimes I play while at work and (WHOOPS) things happen.

Unvote

I will re-analyze Vino's wagon thank you.

See, this inconsistent, forgetful, knee-jerk hopping around is incredibly scummy. Constant revision is made to Lamont's posts after-the-fact, and he demands that we only ever look at what he has most recently wrote.

I've got my web comic, and a hankering to put a vote on Lamont, but he's just so damned spastic it feels too much of a condemnation to lynch him because I get townie reads from him.

Elaborate your town reads.

Am I the only one noticing how LC is literally just voting anyone he possibly can, then moving on if it doesn't stick?

Indeed.

Santos: If you think he's town don't vote him.

But if he's a distraction?

So what? Sorry, not good enough. If you get town reads, then what the hell are you doing even thinking about lynching him? If you really think he's town, just

don't get distracted

. It really is that easy.

FoS

.

hasdgfas, you were calling me out a couple times. Was there anything else? I figure since you were paying attention to me it would be nice to know if you've come to any conclusions? I can role claim if you like, but it would only help scum safe claim later.

Soft claiming what the fuck.

So, whats wrong with claiming? Oh, the mafia are scared of claiming, forgot.

Are you serious?!

And now you're taking it back.

HoS

, you're now my number 2 suspect. Your fumbling with the Lamont case reads a little like defence - as if you're trying to get people to decide RIGHT NOW if they want him lynched, in the hopes that you'll deflate the wagon.

I would say that the odds increase of the player being scum for each player already on the wagon. So the least chance would be Fishy & the greatest chance would be Tajo.

First sentence: Thanks, captain obvious.
Second sentence: What the fuck.


Lamont still reads powerful scum. My vote stays.

@Mod: I think some players need prodding, most notably xRECKONERx

[Lamont_Cranston]

I have queried Vino and found the accused link between him and Rofl to be false and thus the motivations for lynching him to be false.

The motivations for lynching him had nothing to do with this connection. You asked fishy this question, and he answered you.
Yes they did. I asked Fishy yes but you failed to notice I ALSO asked Vino to expand on the referenced game. This is where Fishy's motivations were proved to not apply.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I have queried Vino and found the accused link between him and Rofl to be false and thus the motivations for lynching him to be false.

The motivations for lynching him had nothing to do with this connection. You asked fishy this question, and he answered you.

Yes they did. I asked Fishy yes but you failed to notice I ALSO asked Vino to expand on the referenced game. This is where Fishy's motivations were proved to not apply.

[Korlash]

Your original post seems to suggest that you thought the others joining in were town as well, at that time. You mentioned this to disprove the theory that the scum were jumping on to hasten a bad wagon started by another townie - you basically said that the scum didn't jump on.

I can understand your confusion but you misunderstand me. I was trying to disprove it was a setup by the scum, I was not trying to say scum didn't jump on. Remember I had my wagons confused and thought the vino wagon was up to 8, thusly "a bunch of town" had to already be on it. As I was confused about the wagon my wording was justly misleading.

i can continue explaining it if necessary but like I said, I was mistaken about the wagon which seems like a point both you and TSS are missing.

[Gorrad]

Due to the number of people away for the Fourth, the first round of prods will occur on Tuesday.

[Percy]

Fishy's motivation had nothing to do with meta, as far as I can see. The vote was clearly inflated random voting. What are you talking about?

Also, I can now see where the confusion of Korlash's post originated, given that he confused the wagons.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm talking about where Fishy stated his reason for voting Vino. He said that Vino's post was "fake random as scum". I had also noticed how it appeared and said so to Fishy. I then asked Vino, who was voting for Rofl, to explain about the game they were in together. Vino does so very clearly, in a very convincing way. I am convinced that the "fake random scum" angle is wrong because it was neither fake nor random, nor a bus. I say so and the roof falls in.

But look, I have been playing like CRAP so far this game. I feel really uncomfortable because of it but I will continue to contribute and dig out from under as it were.

Hopefully I can get back in my "groove" before too long.

[Vino]

Odds and probability stuff.

I don't think this is about straight odds and probability. It's not like, say there are 4 scum in 25 players than there is a 2*4/25 chance that scum was on the bandwagon. The only usefulness of examining bandwagons is with the assumption that scum are more likely to join a bandwagon, so the question here really is; is the bandwagon in question one that is likely to be scum-driven? Personally I think the answer is yes and therefore the probability that one of those four is scum is higher than the probability that any given person in the game is scum -- that may be useful information.

Because you want to?

Also, I see no defense.

Meh. I gave my defense later, after I heard what he had to say.

[Empking]

Sens: Can you give the best example of what you're taslking about in regard to Santos.

[Santos]

Seems a little redundant. What is your strat?