Mini 808 - Rabbit Doubt Mafia: Over!

[Kreriov]

2) "despite your suspicions", you aren't "convinced he's scum"? What's that even supposed to mean.
3) He only looks scummy because he's active?!? Um, what???

What is unclear? I have detailed my suspicions of Tenchi but do not really find them convincing or conclusive. I feel that since Tenchi has been very active, I have been over analyzing his actions simply because there is nothing else to do and am afraid I am making to much of them. Rather than continue to be on a wagon about which I am unsure, especially when the target is away, I think it prudent to unvote.

[Looker]

Icerint's Post 359 - Basically, yes. I'm waiting forhim to input what he has against Battousai so that we can all come to a conclusion, whether it be that one or both of them are scum or that they're both townies distracting the town. Either way.

Sorry for any inconvenience, but I'm trying to ship all of my stuff overseas and there's a lot of paperwork to go along with it. May make me V/LA for some time. (I've been playing Mafia for a while and I

still

don't know what that means...)

[Iecerint]

Vacation/Limited Access. I think.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: On that note, I'll be

V/LA July 5th to July 10th

. I should be able to check in on Tuesday night, though.

[Battousai]

First off, Looker change your location under your avatar. You are not "Somewhere on a mountian." You are "Somewhere on a mountain."

Secondly, we need to get some more people active. I hate having no reads/posts to go on later on people for D2.

And Thirdly,

And to follow up that post

FOS: Mafiamann

IMO, you have been actively lurking. You've been focused on flavor more than anything, and responding in short posts that most don't take a real stance.

I'm sorry. I'm going to Florida, so don't expect it to get better. I still find the guy who tried to dictate where everybody stayed the scummiest. I think that what room you're in has some power over night actions.

I call you out for actively lurking and you try to preemptively excuse your later actions with "going to Florida." That is not an excuse for actively lurking. It is just an excuse for lurking. Then you make a stand, but it is based on unknown flavor and game specifics. It is like you are on an invisible fence. You actually take a stance, but if it goes back to you, you have flavor speculation to back you up. Therefore, you are still on the fence.

[Iecerint]

Having just read MM in isolation, I agree that it would be nice to have on record his view of the various miniwagons, and of other not-yet-wagon'd players. I think the post restriction makes this a bit of a pain for him, which may explain why there's relatively little out there. From what I've read, it seems like he's agreed with Batt's points against Tenchi and is suspicious of Phily's room assignments form, but he does think that we should room in small groups overnight.

My avatar is the painting "Satan sowing his seeds," so I can be Satan if you need a name for me.

[Battousai]

Not being able to say a player's name isn't much of a hindrance...

[Iecerint]

Didn't say it excused it; just that it may explain it.

[mykonian]

Tenchi is a player that tends to play with fire, like he does here. His things he said were scummy, but he took risks, something I consider town.

KMD does exactly the opposite. Tries not to stand out, but still be here. Brings little new, doesnt lead the game, like he likes to. Scummy behaviour for certain.

Phily: you are looking too much at prove, not at motivations. A player that takes risks, and stands out, is per definition more town. Check the meta on this site.

[PhilyEc]

Tenchi is a player that tends to play with fire, like he does here. His things he said were scummy, but he took risks, something I consider town.

KMD does exactly the opposite. Tries not to stand out, but still be here. Brings little new, doesnt lead the game, like he likes to. Scummy behaviour for certain.

Phily: you are looking too much at prove, not at motivations. A player that takes risks, and stands out, is per definition more town. Check the meta on this site.

The only risky behaviour I've seen has been scummy. You can say Tenchi is town for putting his neck out on the line after attacking both me and Batt but in truth his approach was scummy. Scum do attack people, scum also bus. From what I've seen you condone Tenchi's actions but go on to say its too risky to be scummy using the same line to defend yourself. You condone Tenchi's actions enough to VOTE him but then move onto KMD therefore meaning that your gut feeling is stronger than the reasons you had for earlier voting Tenchi. It looks like scum bus no matter what light you shed on it.

Scum attack in plenty of games Myk, they take on the risks that are involved when guiding town into mislynches. Your defense is that you and Tenchi are both soooo risk taking that you can't be scum, that isn't something I agree with one bit.

[Tenchi]

Will review this game tomorrow.

[mykonian]

The only risky behaviour I've seen has been scummy. You can say Tenchi is town for putting his neck out on the line after attacking both me and Batt but in truth his approach was scummy. Scum do attack people, scum also bus. From what I've seen you condone Tenchi's actions but go on to say its too risky to be scummy using the same line to defend yourself. You condone Tenchi's actions enough to VOTE him but then move onto KMD therefore meaning that your gut feeling is stronger than the reasons you had for earlier voting Tenchi. It looks like scum bus no matter what light you shed on it.

Scum attack in plenty of games Myk, they take on the risks that are involved when guiding town into mislynches. Your defense is that you and Tenchi are both soooo risk taking that you can't be scum, that isn't something I agree with one bit.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?

I don't think I said anything about myself, and all you wanted to know is why KMD was my vote, and not Tenchi, someone who I thought also scummy. Here it was, and now you: a. linked us, b. say I think him town c. say I defend myself, or try to look towny.

further I see the word: "bus" in there somewhere, and I have no idea why you would need to use that.


Phily, you attack me because I am a nice target, because there is a "contradiction", not because I'm scummy. otherwise you would never come up with such a post that is only usefull to make me look scummy. Because you are not looking for scum with that post, you are trying to make someone else look scum.

[PhilyEc]

The way I saw your double vote post Myk. You displayed suspicion on two players then went with one for far less reason than the other. You voted Tenchi then in the same post unvoted and voted KMD. It looks like you're preparing a defense when a Tenchi lynch comes up. I suspect you of pre-busing a partner in order to distance because of your voting pattern. Your replies chain you two together, not my post. My post highlights how you're saying both you and him are town for taking on so many risks.

Do you or do you not suspect him?

[Iecerint]

I have to say that I can see where myko's coming from with the comment about Kmd, at least. I've never played with him, but he usually strikes me as a leader in the games with townKmd that I've read through, and he's been town in all of those. It could just be that I gravitate toward his avatars. This certainly isn't near enough to warrant my vote on its own, though.

[Kmd4390]

Tenchi is a player that tends to play with fire, like he does here. His things he said were scummy, but he took risks, something I consider town.

KMD does exactly the opposite. Tries not to stand out, but still be here. Brings little new, doesnt lead the game, like he likes to. Scummy behaviour for certain.

First, how is saying scummy things a towntell? Second, how am I trying not to stand out? Third, since when do I like to lead a game where I'm town and not confident in my reads?

For what it's worth I see a Tenchi/Myko/Kreriov scum team.

Here it was, and now you: a. linked us, b. say I think him town c. say I defend myself, or try to look towny.

How is "a" not reasonable? And to "b", you don't?

further I see the word: "bus" in there somewhere, and I have no idea why you would need to use that.

Technically, Myko is right. He pointed suspicion on Tenchi, but voted me. What Myko is doing in regards to Tenchi is distancing, not bussing.

-------------

Iecerint, which games of mine have you read?

[PhilyEc]

Technically, Myko is right. He pointed suspicion on Tenchi, but voted me. What Myko is doing in regards to Tenchi is distancing, not bussing.

Point taken, I was addressing his vote on Tenchi as a vote on a partner, I assumed this is busing but it is infact distancing because he didnt let the vote stand.

[Battousai]

Tenchi is a player that tends to play with fire, like he does here. His things he said were scummy, but he took risks, something I consider town.

KMD does exactly the opposite. Tries not to stand out, but still be here. Brings little new, doesnt lead the game, like he likes to. Scummy behaviour for certain.

Phily: you are looking too much at prove, not at motivations. A player that takes risks, and stands out, is per definition more town. Check the meta on this site.

Tell me what Tenchi has done that is so risky, that scum would not do it.

[mykonian]

The way I saw your double vote post Myk. You displayed suspicion on two players then went with one for far less reason than the other. You voted Tenchi then in the same post unvoted and voted KMD. It looks like you're preparing a defense when a Tenchi lynch comes up. I suspect you of pre-busing a partner in order to distance because of your voting pattern. Your replies chain you two together, not my post. My post highlights how you're saying both you and him are town for taking on so many risks.

Do you or do you not suspect him?

is that the problem... explain that then.

The reason I voted two persons in one post, is that I reacted directly on what I read. You can read it chronological. What KMD did on page 12 is so un-KMD, and while it is only one post, it is rather clear. Further, contrary to other games with him, I have trouble to remember what he said. He doesn't stand out. This is an added thing, that doesn't fit in his normal play.

Phily, why do I hear so little about KMD from you, and so much Tenchi-bashing? I do suspect him, tenchi has been second scummiest for a whole time, but you are doing a lot to make you look like KMD's buddy, defending him by attacking Tenchi. Please review what you are saying, as I'm certain that is not what you try to do.

[Kmd4390]

The reason I voted two persons in one post, is that I reacted directly on what I read. You can read it chronological. What KMD did on page 12 is so un-KMD, and while it is only one post, it is rather clear. Further, contrary to other games with him, I have trouble to remember what he said. He doesn't stand out. This is an added thing, that doesn't fit in his normal play.

What post are you referring to?

And I've had games where I don't stand out as town. See Double Head Alpha, Zelda, LK's most recent open game, Mafia 91, Disney.

Btw, I'm getting more confident in this lately:

For what it's worth I see a Tenchi/Myko/Kreriov scum team.

[PhilyEc]

What KMD did on page 12 is so un-KMD, and while it is only one post, it is rather clear.

PFFFFFFFT. Thats a terrible excuse.

Further, contrary to other games with him, I have trouble to remember what he said. He doesn't stand out. This is an added thing, that doesn't fit in his normal play.

I think hes playing fine, maybe not as active but hes not playing that cautious a game at all. Where do you see your risk-taking being greater than his? How is risk taking townie?!

Phily, why do I hear so little about KMD from you, and so much Tenchi-bashing?

Because KMD has done nothing scummy in my opinion? Dear god man its obvious I dont agree with your reason behind voting for KMD (ie hes so un-KMD)

I do suspect him, tenchi has been second scummiest for a whole time, but you are doing a lot to make you look like KMD's buddy, defending him by attacking Tenchi. Please review what you are saying, as I'm certain that is not what you try to do.

I dont need to read over my posts, call it whatever you like your point is dumb. I've contributed my honest opinion about your voting pattern yet now you go on to accuse me of buddying to KMD? Just because I think your excuse for your vote is bullcrap? No no, I think you're reaching for excuses now that you realise your grounding his coming apart. I'm happy as to where my vote is. Instead of telling me to re-read my posts how bout you try coming up with better excuses for your actions?

[Iecerint]

The only one I can recall for certain offhand is Fantasy mafia, but I think I've seen other games of yours where you're a non-PR and seem active. When I first found the site, I read a lot of games with themes that interested me, and you stood out in several of them (enough that I recognized your name when I saw you on the playerlist). Again, it could just be that you tend to have rather memorable avatars.

On the subject of your hypothesized scumteam, I can understand your suspicion of Tenchi (though a response from him is very, very needed), and, while you've had a weird thing against myko the whole game that never made any sense to me, I can at least understand his pairing with Tenchi.

Kre, on the other hand, doesn't strike me as scummy whatsoever. He asks questions about potentially problematic player actions, then backs off if there's a reasonable explanation (refer to Kre and Phily early on for an example). The only questionable thing he's done this game to my memory is to unvote Tenchi, which, while not scummy in itself (he listed what I think [and you don't] are good reasons for it), is suspect in that he didn't refer to an alternate player to attack. (IMO a better way to handle the unvote might have been "Tenchi's gone right now, and it's getting out of hand. I'm unvoting. Player X did Y; let's talk about that.")

Is his unvote on Tenchi the main basis for your suspicion of him?

[Iecerint]

I also think it's a little weird that you won't let anyone into the bathroom with you, flavor aside.

Also, is Batt aware that he's locked in the Crime Scene Room with Looker?

[PhilyEc]

^ *likes how Iecerint doesnt only concentrate on the topic at hand*

[Battousai]

I also think it's a little weird that you won't let anyone into the bathroom with you, flavor aside.

Also, is Batt aware that he's locked in the Crime Scene Room with Looker?

I'm not complaining

Myko- please answer my request:


Tell me what Tenchi has done that is so risky, that scum would not do it.

[Iecerint]

^ He's inevitably going to reference Tenchi's pre-"personal business" activity level. It's similar to the argument Kre gave for unvoting Tenchi (and that I gave in the post where I voted Tenchi).

Keep in mind that myko's gone on record as saying that he finds Tenchi scummy. It's not as if myko's arguing that Tenchi is a saint. That said, this was probably poor choice of words regardless of myko's alignment:

Tenchi is a player that tends to play with fire, like he does here.

His things he said were scummy, but he took risks, something I consider town.