Mini 807 - Save the Mafia! (Game Over!)


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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:52 pm

Post by CoCo »

DRK: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 44#1738644

I am not going after people that have went after me. In fact, I was building a case on you before you had said anything about me. I then switched to Wicked when Reckoner pointed out his contradiction and dropped my case on you.

As for the following post (480): I was speculation on two possibilities. I wasn't intentionally trying to imply you have a power role. Its just part of my playstyle. I tend to go with a gut feeling or just thinking out loud until the player(s) I'm speaking about respond to it and I can use that information to judge the situation more accurately.

Reckoner: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 88#1738988

I'm not parroting you. You brought up a valid point and I agree with that line of thinking. When I brought my case against DRK, it was based on something I viewed as a contradiction. When you pointed out another player guilty of a stronger contradiction, I went along with it.

ChannelDelibird: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 88#1739488
CoCo's 360 claims "no opinion" on wolfram, Wicked, qax, and myself. Which is ridiculous. There have been cases on most of that group and to have absolutely no opinion on any of them just doesn't seem possible to me.
At that point, I had no opinion. Just because cases were made doesn't mean I need to jump in and make weigh in on it. By that logic, we'd get more people accusing me of parroting. Its lose-lose for me.
CoCo's reasoning for saying that we shouldn't be talking about who Reckoner may or may not kill is weird. His conclusion, yeah, that's absolutely right, we shouldn't be, but his reasoning isn't "it gives the scum a greater chance of being able to fuck the town over at night", it's because "a vigilante is someone who takes the law into his own hands". I don't know whether this is particularly scummy, just because it's so stupid, I don't see any reason why scum are more likely to say it. But weird, nonetheless.
Yes, it does give the scum "a chance to fuck the town over." Which is why I said we shouldn't be discussing it. I used the textbook definition of vigilante because I really don't want to discuss the role. Yet, I've been asked to do so twice now. The vig can do what he wants, all we can do is hope he makes the correct choice.
In the same post, CoCo upgrades his FoS on Wicked to a vote. Why the wait?


I was waiting to see if Wicked would respond before an additional vote for the stated reason was added.
Possible scumbuddies? Meh, I don't want to get into connections before we know anyone's alignment, but this does suggest CoCo/qax scum. It also suggests just CoCo scum, for trying (badly) to stir the pot.
No. Just no. I had conflicting issues about Qax and wasn't sure how to go about explaining it. Judging by my shitty track record for explaining myself or my reasons, that shouldn't be too hard to understand.
Here's a strange post - if he thinks the role can be used wisely to help the town, why does he not care what it does? And, of course, "I'm VERY pro town" does not read very pro town at all.
See above. Why are you so concerned with the vig's role? Twice now in a single post you've brought it up.
As for saying I'm very pro-town, it probably wasn't a smart move. However, on its all I can do to ensure my survival considering my playstyle is often viewed as scummy.

About the remainder of your post; the Qax thing is finished. I was reading some posts, came to a conclusion, and now he's being replaced. I do not feel the need to discuss it further. I will see what happens with his replacement.
On the subject of Lobster, I asked him to elaborate and he did. What more was there to say? I'd have done the same regardless of who he was voting for.

Finally, concerning replacements; Usually (barring certain cases), if I have a vote on a player being replaced, I unvote and ask the replacement to explain their predecessor's reasoning in their own words. Then make a judgment on that.
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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:24 pm

Post by canadianbovine »

CoCo wrote: Usually (barring certain cases), if I have a vote on a player being replaced, I unvote and ask the replacement to explain their predecessor's reasoning in their own words. Then make a judgment on that.
how can they explain their predecessor's reasoning. its not like they're the same person.

Also for before when someone was discussing the odds of town players being left after night one...

forget the serial killer? Also i know this is extremely late but isnt claiming vig basically a safe claim for a serial killer?
coco wrote: Its just part of my playstyle. I tend to go with a gut feeling or just thinking out loud until the player(s) I'm speaking about respond to it and I can use that information to judge the situation more accurately.
where else have you played mafia? this is your first game on mafiascum. I would find it very hard to believe someone whose playing for the first time has a 'playing style'.
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:50 pm

Post by CoCo »

I've played Mafia on a few other non-mafia based forums. I'd rather not name those forums to protect my anonymity.

I see what you mean about the replacement and the predecessor not being the same person. What I meant was, its usually a good idea to have the replacement attempt to pick up where the other player left off. In many cases, the new player may disagree with some of the reasoning, and its hardly fair to hold them accountable for something they may disagree with.
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Record:

Town: 3
Power Role: 3
Special: 1
Scum: 0
Ongoing: 2

W/L/D: 3/1/0
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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:30 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

Okay, mod, when is deadline?
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:53 pm

Post by PsychoSniper »

xRECKONERx wrote:
Okay, mod, when is deadline?
There's no deadline yet at this point, though I'm thinking about implementing one within this week. I will first wait for the replacements to come in.

I've had two players inform me that they're interested to replace in. One I get their confirmation pm they'll be in.

In the meantime, the rest of you please let me know if you'd prefer a deadline to be in place at this point. Thanks.

Vote Count:

CoCo – 5 (DeathRowKitty, lobstermania, Wickedestjr, xRECKONERx, ChannelDelibird)
qax42 – 1 (canadianbovine,)
canadianbovine – 1 (qax42)
Wickedestjr – 1 (CoCo)


Not voting:

wolframnhart, Conspicuous_other, nohandtyper, My Milked Eek
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:05 pm

Post by PsychoSniper »

Alright, qwints officially replaces qax42

wolf's replacement hasn't yet pmed his confirmation.
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:29 pm

Post by qwints »

/confirming replacement

I need to finish re-read, but these stood out:
xRECKONERx wrote:I will say this:

I will only kill at night if I'm positive on someone's scumminess.
Bad idea.
ChannelDelibird wrote:As far as I'm concerned, all this mathematical discussion is distracting us from lynching scum. Leave the vig to do what he feels is best.
Wrong/bad advice given Reckoner's stated attitude.
CoCo wrote:I also suck at math. Oh well.

I see no need to discuss who Reckoner should or shouldn't be targeting. You know, because a vigilante is someone who "takes the law" into their own hands. And that's all you'll hear from me on that subject.
This is not a roleplaying game. Flavor justifications for gameplay decisions are dumb. Also, it wasn't the last he said on the subject.


To all, discussing whether the vig should kill (answer: yes) =/= discussing who the vig should kill. The risk of suboptimal play by vig < risk of giving a hypothetical mafia rb additional information that doesn't change his optimal play.
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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:07 pm

Post by Wickedestjr »

qwints wrote:/confirming replacement

I need to finish re-read, but these stood out:
xRECKONERx wrote:I will say this:

I will only kill at night if I'm positive on someone's scumminess.
Bad idea.
ChannelDelibird wrote:As far as I'm concerned, all this mathematical discussion is distracting us from lynching scum. Leave the vig to do what he feels is best.
Wrong/bad advice given Reckoner's stated attitude.
CoCo wrote:I also suck at math. Oh well.

I see no need to discuss who Reckoner should or shouldn't be targeting. You know, because a vigilante is someone who "takes the law" into their own hands. And that's all you'll hear from me on that subject.
This is not a roleplaying game. Flavor justifications for gameplay decisions are dumb. Also, it wasn't the last he said on the subject.


To all, discussing whether the vig should kill (answer: yes) =/= discussing who the vig should kill. The risk of suboptimal play by vig < risk of giving a hypothetical mafia rb additional information that doesn't change his optimal play.
Hi qwints nice to meet you. Who do you find the scummiest in the game right now? Why don't you think that the vig should kill the scummiest looking player if they make a kill?
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:58 am

Post by DeathRowKitty »

CoCo wrote: I am not going after people that have went after me. In fact, I was building a case on you before you had said anything about me. I then switched to Wicked when Reckoner pointed out his contradiction and dropped my case on you.
You switched right after you were FoS'ed for not having opinions on anyone besides me.
CoCo wrote: I assure you, my only wish is to see scum gone. My main suspects at this point are Wicked, DRK, and NHT.
That was posted after NHT started attacking you. I don't recall seeing any posts before that in which you mentioned being suspicious of NHT.
CoCo wrote:
lobster wrote:
I'm going to Vote:
CoCo
, mostly for this "very" WIFOMy mess.
And also for thinking that wolframnhart's opinion is more interesting than his one post for the past seven days.

Good job reading. Don't you care about someone that posts less content than I do?
I find your vote odd.
Some may say I feel this way because the vote is for me, but I think you are merely deflecting in order to hide amongst the crowd. Cripes, do you think I'm so blind as to not notice the scum tells you've given off?

I am not the droid you're looking for. It takes time to gather information...
This was after lobster's vote on you. Suddenly, you mention these obvious scum tells he has that no one else sees and that you never mentioned before. Now that I think of it, I don't remember you telling us what these scum tells were.

Your first attack against me could very well have come from before I first called you scummy, but let's look at your more recent posts about me:
CoCo (before I voted him) wrote: I just don't like contradictions. I feel that I was wrong in the case of DeathRowKitty. Perhaps not too far off the mark, but the scummyness I saw in DRK pales in comparison to Wicked's.
CoCo (after I voted him) wrote: DRK, I'm still formulating an opinion. You accuse me of not paying attention to the game but won't let me take some time to sort things out? I really get the feeling that you're just happy to lynch anybody. Very anti-town, bud.

NHT, my playing style is certainly better than grasping at straws. DRK seems too settle on lynching anyone. How can you say that is better play?
Yep, my vote had nothing to do with your case against me.
CoCo wrote: I tend to go with a gut feeling or just thinking out loud until the player(s) I'm speaking about respond to it and I can use that information to judge the situation more accurately.
Yet a few of us were questioning you and you refused to respond.

Wicked wrote: Why don't you think that the vig should kill the scummiest looking player if they make a kill?
I don't see that anywhere in qwints' post...

@qwints
When you're done with your reading, please give your opinions on qax's posts, especially those leading up to and following the vig claim.
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:02 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

CoCo, emphasis mine wrote:On the subject of Lobster, I asked him to elaborate and he did.
What more was there to say?
I'd have done the same regardless of who he was voting for.
Gosh, I don't know, maybe
RESPOND TO HIS CASE?
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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:47 am

Post by stuntkeyboardist »

Guys, I do apologize for being gone yesterday (I had graduation/party). But I will
vote: CoCo
. I gave you more chances than I give anybody, and as it has been pointed out, you still say nothing in your posts. I even said I would upgrade the FoS had you not responded reasonably. Either give actual reasons or be gone. I believe you are at L-1.

Also, hi quints! I hope you are able to/have caught up. Welcome to the game!
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:29 am

Post by Conspicuous_other »

Hey guys, I'm about halfway through my readthrough, but I'm going to an amusement park with some freinds tomorrow, so I won't be able to finish until wednesday. I'll try to get a post up either late Wednesday night or sometime during the day on thursday.
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:34 am

Post by CoCo »

Funny, up until 2am CST everyone voting for me was someone I had suspected as scum at some point. With the exception of Reckoner, of course. CDB is probably the least scummiest, in my eyes.

But it really doesn't matter what I say because its like talking to a wall. Someone will always jump in and say "na-ah, in a post from last week you said/meant/didn't say/spelled a word wrong/etc."

For the past few days, I've been trying to show the town just how in control the scum is at this point. Its been like this since Reckoner was forced to claim. Take you fucking blinders off. I'm not scum, but my playstyle is purposely structured as such. Granted, I tried a bit of a variation this game and its not something I enjoyed.

I tell you all right now, because it looks like I may have to; if I'm forced to claim, its all downhill from here.
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:49 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

CoCo wrote:Funny, up until 2am CST everyone voting for me was someone I had suspected as scum at some point. With the exception of Reckoner, of course. CDB is probably the least scummiest, in my eyes.

But it really doesn't matter what I say because its like talking to a wall. Someone will always jump in and say "na-ah, in a post from last week you said/meant/didn't say/spelled a word wrong/etc."

For the past few days, I've been trying to show the town just how in control the scum is at this point. Its been like this since Reckoner was forced to claim. Take you fucking blinders off. I'm not scum, but my playstyle is purposely structured as such. Granted, I tried a bit of a variation this game and its not something I enjoyed.

I tell you all right now, because it looks like I may have to; if I'm forced to claim, its all downhill from here.
FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

Do the following now, or die:

1) Explain in detail your post noting lobstermania's "many scumtells", expanding on exactly what scumtells you are referring to and why you had not mentioned them before.

2) Address the case lobster made against you that you originally asked him to elaborate on, and then said nothing but "ok" to.

3) Claim.

I'm pretty sure I missed some things in between 2 and 3, but this will do for a start. If you're unable or unwilling to do all of the above then you will be lynched.

The appeal to emotion in the quoted post ("you
can't
make me claim! bad things will happen! very bad things!")
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:43 am

Post by ryan2754 »

Here replacing for wolfframnhart. Will get to a re-read most likely tonight.
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Town: 3-4*
Scum: 2-1
SK: 0-1
Unlynched.
"Noone can deny that the Ryan, from now on known as "Bullseye", accomplished an amazing feat. Nightkilling 2 mafia roles on the first 2 nights. He deserves to win." - Alexhans, Mini 829, Town Loss
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:00 pm

Post by qwints »

Wickedestjr wrote: Hi qwints nice to meet you. Who do you find the scummiest in the game right now? Why don't you think that the vig should kill the scummiest looking player if they make a kill?
Question 1. Coco. Due to these gems:
CoCo wrote: If the person is at L-2, that's all fine and dandy, but assailing that person with so many questions and they can't possibly answer them all, to me, is giving the scum a lot of room to develop a game plan.

I'm worried about people putting blinders on. It makes it very easy for scum to gain wiggle room and develop false and misleading evidence.

I have no opinions on the other players you mention. I'm still observing. When I think of something, I'll be sure to make a post about it.

I see no need to discuss who Reckoner should or shouldn't be targeting. You know, because a vigilante is someone who "takes the law" into their own hands. And that's all you'll hear from me on that subject.

Finally, there is something about Qax42 bothering me, but I can't put my finger on it. However I am observing his posts with care at this time.

Let it be known I'm a defensive player

I'm going to need at least another 36 hours to form a complete thesis.

I'm still formulating an opinion

I'll explain my thoughts tomorrow.
Lurks but gets active when pressured. Stalls like crazy. Poor explanations for anti-town play.

I am willing to hammer.
Claim or die, Coco.


Question 2. I reject the premise of this question - I don't think that.
DRK wrote: @qwints
When you're done with your reading, please give your opinions on qax's posts, especially those leading up to and following the vig claim.
I will not try to explain my predecessor's actions at this time.
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:10 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

Please do not hammer CoCo. In fact,
Unvote
, bitches. I have a sneaking suspicion we've missed something. I'm going to go back and re-read the wagon leading up to my claim, I feel we missed something big there.
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:28 pm

Post by lobstermania »

CoCo wrote:Take you fucking blinders off. I'm not scum, but my playstyle is purposely structured as such.
Wait, so you're saying you're town playing as scum?!?
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:56 pm

Post by DeathRowKitty »

xRx wrote: I have a sneaking suspicion we've missed something.
Yes. CoCo's explanation. I can't find it anywhere.
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:04 pm

Post by ryan2754 »

Just kidding. Legit post coming tomorrow night after softball
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Scum: 2-1
SK: 0-1
Unlynched.
"Noone can deny that the Ryan, from now on known as "Bullseye", accomplished an amazing feat. Nightkilling 2 mafia roles on the first 2 nights. He deserves to win." - Alexhans, Mini 829, Town Loss
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:53 pm

Post by canadianbovine »

unvote, vote: Coco


i am not buying your "if i claim its bad." thats bullshit.
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:54 pm

Post by Conspicuous_other »

CoCo wrote:Funny, up until 2am CST everyone voting for me was someone I had suspected as scum at some point. With the exception of Reckoner, of course. CDB is probably the least scummiest, in my eyes.

But it really doesn't matter what I say because its like talking to a wall. Someone will always jump in and say "na-ah, in a post from last week you said/meant/didn't say/spelled a word wrong/etc."

For the past few days, I've been trying to show the town just how in control the scum is at this point. Its been like this since Reckoner was forced to claim. Take you fucking blinders off. I'm not scum, but my playstyle is purposely structured as such. Granted, I tried a bit of a variation this game and its not something I enjoyed.

I tell you all right now, because it looks like I may have to; if I'm forced to claim, its all downhill from here.
What a treasure trove of Bullshit defenses. 3rd paragraph is especially bad. "I've been trying to show the town how in control the scum is" implies that you know who the scum is, in which case enlighten the rest of us.

Did you seriously just try to say that your scummy behavior is just a playstyle? Do you have any idea how bad that sounds?

The whole claiming thing seems like to me like you're trying to not-so-subtly claim a power role. I don't really buy it. Anyway, even saying that will force you you to claim.

Questions:

What exactly did you mean by
For the past few days, I've been trying to show the town just how in control the scum is at this point.
And also, what exactly was the purpose of your "specially constructed playstyle?"

Also, claim and answer everything else or you die.

I'll be honest. If I didn't have a personal rule never to hammer when replacements are catching up, I'd probably hammer right now. My hand's on the trigger, and if you wanna live you better produce.
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:28 am

Post by PsychoSniper »

ryan2754's replacement has been updated on the front page.

Vote Count:

CoCo – 6 (nohandtyper, DeathRowKitty, lobstermania, Wickedestjr, ChannelDelibird, canadianbovine)
canadianbovine – 1 (qwints)
Wickedestjr – 1 (CoCo)


Not voting:

ryan2754, Conspicuous_other, My Milked Eek, xRECKONERx
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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:52 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

qwints wrote:
xRECKONERx wrote:I will say this:

I will only kill at night if I'm positive on someone's scumminess.
Bad idea.
What did you mean by this?
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:25 am

Post by qwints »

I mean that he should kill every chance he gets. Waiting to be positive (unless you're a 1-shot) is suboptimal play for a vig.

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