Mini 801- Kubrick Mafia (Over)

[muzzz]

Then you know he's voting Laz, right?

[lazarusmoth]

I admit I'm still groping around in this game as I had to reset most of my assumptions. I found it a bit difficult to put a scum tell at Infinis because he seems to have the some parts of the PM on his claim as I do. However, since any trust I have that those claims aren't known by mafia are gone, I'd disregard it.

I've looked at the reasons why he's currently being voted (contradictory statements, asking for one more night to be cleared up eventhough its a waste of investigation as he hadn't claimed powerrole, etc.), and they seem solid enough.

It would be great to hear from the others though. Especially the ones accused of lurking.

[ortolan]

so who do you suspect lazarus?

[lazarusmoth]

Infinis. Then Kise/Archon.

[ortolan]

does anyone, apart from Infinis, not suspect Infinis?

[skitzer]

Here. Will vote Infinis as soon as we receive a Vote Count.

[muzzz]

Why wait if you're going to vote him anyway?

[skitzer]

A list a few pages back asked some people to post. I know Spolium won't because he's left the site

(Mod-probably a replacement needed)

but Ash can still post. I don't want to accidentally hammer and I'm far to0 lazy to read back.

[Kise]

I did not even know Archon was in-and-out. I won't be doing the same, but don't expect many posts throughout a single day from me. I can squeeze in 2 or 3 hours a day (until Sunday) to come online, then I'll be back home.

I haven't read every single page, just a few players in ISO. I'm caught up from pages 13 to 17 & a few ISO reads on orto, laz, Infinis, Archon & Spolium.

I highly suspect Laz for his disapproving of Padz's lynch (I swear, it's not an OMGUSy suspicion). Infinis is in pretty bad shape as well, but he threw in a line that is common amongst honest-townies with this:

I think Infinis is more likely to be scum than lazarus

Would you bet you're lynch tomorrow on it? B/c you pushed me yesterday and now today. When i flip town, you are guilty. Sadly I think it's over zealousness and blindness, and not scum driven behavior.

Usually whenever a townie is about to be lynched, they try to set up a next-day-lynch for whoever they felt was scum... usually. I think Padz is a bit frustrated with the thought that he's being tunneled, and I'm not buying an orto lynch if Padz flips town.

Vote: Lazarus

I think we should give Infinis a chance and consider him sincere. Unlike Infinis, Laz hasn't said anything redeeming, other than feeling stupid for being wrong about Padz. I'm not saying Infinis squealed like a pig, but I feel like he has opened his heart up for most of his recent post. Laz, I feel, really didn't want to lose his goon during D1. Also, I find it interesting that he wanted to lynch orto on D1, and now Infinis suggests we lynch orto once he "flips town"... Maybe there's a significant connection here, maybe not. I still think Laz is a better choice to vote for.

Also, was there no NK?

Either a roleblock or doc-block. Take your pick.

[Kise]

Usually whenever a townie is about to be lynched, they try to set up a next-day-lynch for whoever they felt was scum... usually. I think

Padz

Infinis is a bit frustrated with the thought that he's being tunneled, and I'm not buying an orto lynch if Padz flips town.

Corrected.

[Kise]

Usually whenever a townie is about to be lynched, they try to set up a next-day-lynch for whoever they felt was scum... usually. I think

Padz

Infinis is a bit frustrated with the thought that he's being tunneled, and I'm not buying an orto lynch if

Padz

Infinis flips town.

Corrected.

FFS... Fixed for real this time.

[muzzz]

WTF, Kise?

The guy is even more obviously scum than Pads was. And you want to give him a chance because he directed a ridiculous threat at Orto? He completely contradicts himself, and you ask us to consider him sincere?

Seriously, WTF?

[Kise]

If I think Infinis has a slim chance in hell at being a townie, then I'll believe whatever I want to believe. Why do you feel Infinis should be lynched before Laz; i.e. do you suspect Laz?

[muzzz]

Not nearly as much as Infinis. Or you, for that matter. You've got exactly one point

against

Laz, and exactly one point

for

Infinis. By that count, your vote is horribly misplaced.

[Kise]

Then forgive me for not following the crowd.

Infinis is at L-2 right now. I don't want to put him in hammering-range no way. Someone requested that Ash posts before Infinis was lynched anyway, and I get the feeling skit is going to come in and vote for Infinis before reading the thread.

I still think Laz would make a better lynch. Wasn't he like one of the only people not voting for Padz?

[AshMC1984]

Sorry, will catch up and post soon. This is now my only current game so I'll be able to give it full attention.

[Infinis]

Let's make a final case in my defense before scum can push my lynch through.

1) Contradictory statements

I voted Laz after the cop came forth and voted laz with post 367. This was clearly indicative of a guilty investigation. I was not the only who thought so see Ort's 376 (even after BC switches his vote in 373! seems like blindness to me not to see that switch.Ort again attacks me in 378 for not switching my vote). Yet Ort is free to continue pushing my wagon w/o being called to task. Again sadly I must say I believe over zealousness and not inherent scuminess. But it's razor thin towards the zealotry.

As to fishy's 375 I am not absolving myself any responsibility. The cop says vote Laz and I voted Laz to follow suit. To not do so calls in to question BC's claim. Either you believe BC is the cop and I played as a good townie should or you believe BC not to be the cop and BC and I are scum buddies. Painting any other way flies in the face of reason.

And nice misrepresent of how things played out muzz in 390. See the argument above.

2) Not paraphrasing the Town PM

Luckily some of you have insight and saw what I was getting at (see fishy's 365). I claimed VT an extra part of my PM. My Spartacus claim was in my "Interest" as I hinted at. So again those who are still voting me after seeing this believe the scum have the town PM or are scum pushing through an easy lynch.

I wonder how I became the one to look at?

Ort derailed the muzz and pads wagons. Now what relevance does this have? Why didn't pads vote me and wagon his way to clear his name? He had more than enough time to jump on the wagon and hammer with the Ort push towards my lynch. I should be dead. But i'm not.

Again I repeat for me not to claim doc, on the edge of being lynched is just playing WIFOM with common sense. To not claim a power role as scum most of you realize is a gambit. by claiming a power role I could've skated easily into day 3. Simplest answer is best i claimed VT an extra because I am such and not scum.

Now as to the no NK. Well I am leaning towards of the lurkers being scum and that they simply failed to submit their kill. Or we can go with the belief that scum and doc both thought BC was Spartacus and targeted him. But if you believe BC to be cop, then see argument #1

Finally, It was asked several times what happens if I flip town? Who becomes the number one target as scum? Laz, well pads made a case against him really early and then retracted it. Bussing perhaps? In that vein I think muzz is cleared due to pads vote.

Unvote

I think a more thorough reread is in order.

[AshMC1984]

All caught up now. Well, I'm undecided. We've established that Pads-scum had Spartacus knowledge. Infinis has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt I feel, that he has the VT PM. Having the VT PM and knowledge of Spartacus are not the same thing. Admittedly, Infinis' knowledge of the VT PM was all that stopped me continuing against him yesterday. Orto feels that scum receiving the VT PM is commonplace on MS. I have limited MS experience and have never had this myself. Can others back Orto up here or not?

[BloodCovenent]

All caught up now. Well, I'm undecided. We've established that Pads-scum had Spartacus knowledge. Infinis has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt I feel, that he has the VT PM. Having the VT PM and knowledge of Spartacus are not the same thing. Admittedly, Infinis' knowledge of the VT PM was all that stopped me continuing against him yesterday. Orto feels that scum receiving the VT PM is commonplace on MS. I have limited MS experience and have never had this myself. Can others back Orto up here or not?

This post concerns me. I find it slightly scummy, I want more meat to your posts Ash. Give me some details. If your caught up in a 17 page game, you don't post a small paragraph saying all of your feelings. IMO, ash could be scum trying to derail a VT lynch. I feel that you have contributed literally nothing to this game so far, and i don't like that at all.

As i'm coming to my senses, i would rather lynch a VT then risk killing a doc. Sorry Infinis, i think that lynching you, is for the greater good.

I voted Laz after the cop came forth and voted laz with post 367. This was clearly indicative of a guilty investigation. I was not the only who thought so see Ort's 376 (even after BC switches his vote in 373! seems like blindness to me not to see that switch.Ort again attacks me in 378 for not switching my vote). Yet Ort is free to continue pushing my wagon w/o being called to task. Again sadly I must say I believe over zealousness and not inherent scuminess. But it's razor thin towards the zealotry.

No, as i stated later, i did not get a guilty on anyone, my cop actions were not available at the time.

[ortolan]

Then you know he's voting Laz, right?

Yes but this was apparently on the basis of believing BC breadcrumbed a guilty on him, which is clearly not the case. He has also expressed intentions of changing his vote e.g.

I'm not going to vote yet, barning is bad.

Ort derailed the muzz and pads wagons.

I would very much like you to justify this. I derailed the muzzz wagon, as he was the vote leader. I was the first to initially vote for Pads before it was clear muzzz was otherwise going to get lynched instead of him, then I changed to Infinis. After Infinis' claim which I didn't believe one bit, I was forced again by circumstances to changed my vote back to Pads, and I was the fourth on his wagon when again people were changing to

my

wagon. Also, Pads strongly announced intention to join

my

wagon. Plus, instead of voting him you chose to add the third vote to my wagon, after BC and lazarusmoth. So any suggestion by

you

that I was detracting from my scumbuddy Pads' wagon is patently ridiculous.

If Infinis is scum and lazarus town then Kise is scum. Anyone voting someone other than Infinis at this point, and risking outing power roles instead of lynching the extremely scummy liability we have in Infinis is going to have a lot of explaining to do.

[BloodCovenent]

If Infinis is scum and lazarus town then Kise is scum.

Anyone voting someone other than Infinis at this point, and risking outing power roles instead of lynching the extremely scummy liability we have in Infinis is going to have a lot of explaining to do.

Agreed. If I haven't done so already, I

Unvote

. i'll hammer with everyone's consent. (yes, i know, he's only at L-2 still... i think)

[AshMC1984]

All caught up now. Well, I'm undecided. We've established that Pads-scum had Spartacus knowledge. Infinis has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt I feel, that he has the VT PM. Having the VT PM and knowledge of Spartacus are not the same thing. Admittedly, Infinis' knowledge of the VT PM was all that stopped me continuing against him yesterday. Orto feels that scum receiving the VT PM is commonplace on MS. I have limited MS experience and have never had this myself. Can others back Orto up here or not?

This post concerns me. I find it slightly scummy, I want more meat to your posts Ash. Give me some details. If your caught up in a 17 page game, you don't post a small paragraph saying all of your feelings. IMO, ash could be scum trying to derail a VT lynch. I feel that you have contributed literally nothing to this game so far, and i don't like that at all.

I admit I haven't been my usual vocal self in this game. As I've said more than once, I dislike all the endless set-up speculation here and that's probably resulted in putting me off somewhat. That seems to have been stemmed for now so I'm happy with that. Proposal: the next person to mention masons is policy-lynched!

If you specify aspects of my posts from now on where you want more details I''ll oblige.

I'm not attempting to derail Infinis' lynch - just been contemplating if I should contribute towards it or look elsewhere.

Here is where I am at: Infinis is either a vanilla townie who played in what I and others perceived as an exceedingly scummy manner on D1; or a scumbag who was privy to the VT PM.

For his town points - all I can say is that he knew the VT PM.
Scum potential - I suspected him for much of D1 (case already stated).

I'm not convinced that he is scum but I can see the logic in lynching someone who is at worst a scummy-playing VT when we seemingly have a good thing going here (correct lynch D1 / claimed cop and seemingly present doc working in tandem - hopefully BC produces something of use).

I'm not discounting lurker-scum who didn't bother logging on to submit an NK, or scum purposely submitting a No-Kill to make it appear that a doc correctly protected someone (presumably BC) but willing to risk it at this stage.

With that in mind

Vote: Infinis

I'd feel better about my vote if people would answer my previous question.

@All: Do you think it likely that scum would be privy to the VT PM based either on previous Empking modded games or MS games in general? (I've never experienced that myself).

@BC: Hammer away (though I wouldn't mind people answering my question first - I doubt it would change my mind unless it was a landslide against Orto's position).

[ortolan]

@All: Do you think it likely that scum would be privy to the VT PM based either on previous Empking modded games or MS games in general? (I've never experienced that myself).

This was already discussed ad nauseum yesterday.

[AshMC1984]

@All: Do you think it likely that scum would be privy to the VT PM based either on previous Empking modded games or MS games in general? (I've never experienced that myself).

This was already discussed ad nauseum yesterday.

As far as I see the only people to answer were Muzzz in the negative and Fishy in the positive.

[muzzz]

And nice misrepresent of how things played out muzz in 390. See the argument above.

Screw you. Even if you had a good reason for voting Laz, you still lied about not voting.