Mini 811: Foggy Londontown Mafia - Over!

[Far_Cry]

@iamausername: to "finally" answer ur question, i didn't single out Lowell. Either I chose to vote u or him, and I decided to vote him, simply as "a random vote." I was simply a random vote.

[kikuchiyo]

My goodness.

First off, aside from my rvs vote, i voted Lowell for lurking.

Far_Cry cast an ambiguous statement of suspicion in Lowells direction.

When questioned, FC dodged the question entirely. I voted FC.

I then unvoted and voted Hero to make a point. When I felt that the point had been made(though not as I had intended it) I moved my vote back to FC because my original suspicions of him had not been addressed properly

and

because they seemed to be deceitful about their amount of experience. Did they lie? Its hard to say. That's why I'm going to

unvote, Vote: Hero

Hero764 has gone to great lengths to defend others. Is it scummy to defend other players? Of course not. Funny thing is, Hero has been defending players based on "charitable" interpretations of their posting.

Far_Cry: vote Lowell for picking on a first time player on this site.[/b]

Interpretation one: FC is a first time player. He is being picked on on this site.

Interpretation two: This is FC's first time playing on this particular site, but has other experience.

This is a semantics argument. much like:

Far_Cry: Lowell is lurking, and is suspicious.

Interpretation one: Lowell is lurking. He is also suspicious.

Interpretation two: Lowell is suspicious because he is lurking.

What benefit is Hero getting out of defending other players in "semantics" arguments? If said players flip town, Hero can say, "I told you so." It is day 1. Odds are in favor of a mislynch as all townies know. Day 1 is certainly not the time to be "forgiving" and "charitable" when it comes to what players are posting.

Hero is well aware of FC's alignment. The only way this could be possible is:

A) They are masons.
B) They are both scum.
C) Hero is scum.

So which is it? I am fine with a day 1 mason claim. There is no way for us to know FC's intent about his initial post regarding his experience. Yet Hero claims to understand it entirely and think others are stupid for not being able to interpret the statement one way, even though the statement can

very easily

be interpreted differently.

If you think I move my vote around too much, I don't really care. What I post is my body of work. It will remain long after I am gone.

[Hero764]

Your defensiveness has been you trying, thickheadedly, to defend your slipup in post 46. Everything you've posted has been defending either you or FC, if you havent noticed. 95% defense, 5% scumhunting. That's whats wrong with it.

That's not all I've been doing, its just been that way since the majority of my posts now are arguing with you. And again this is boiling down to me having "too many posts".

Anyway, i'm done arguing with you. Like I said, being as stubborn as you are, I don't think this argument will move anymore than it already has.

Great attitude you have there, you're so pro town. Has it ever occurred to you that you yourself have been incredibly stubborn?

Second, why does he have to defend himself? He's nowhere near being lynched. The town hasn't turned against him. I merely presented my argument. There's no logical need to get this riled up over an accusation on page 5. His posts have all been defense as if he's about to be lynched, instead of pursuing those he sees suspicious. He hasn't scumhunted, he's only defended. Thats the issue.

I can't believe you just posted that. What the fuck? Yep no need to defend myself. I'll just sit here and let you fabricate reasons against me as long as enough people don't agree with you, since that's logical. You realize that by replying to iamausername you are defending yourself? I guess hypocrisy doesn't phase you, eh?

And again, I haven't just been defending. What is it with you and making shit up?

Either I chose to vote u or him, and I decided to vote him, simply as "a random vote." I was simply a random vote.

What good does a random vote do at this stage in the game? And why didn't you acknowledge this at first?

kiku: I don't know if you're all caught up and what not, but when you are I'd like you to address your blatant lie.

What benefit is Hero getting out of defending other players in "semantics" arguments? If said players flip town, Hero can say, "I told you so."

That only makes me look scummier I never even said he was town anyways, so how could I say that? Your argument makes no sense.

Hero is well aware of FC's alignment.

Wow, jumping to conclusions much?

Hero764 has gone to great lengths to defend others.

Call it whatever you want, it wasn't scummy though.

[qwints]

Please note that Kiku has 6 votes in 14 posts - that's bordering on ridiculous. I also really don't like Kiku's rolefishing so early on.

Hero - there's nothing wrong with defending yourself as long as you scum hunt as well. WILL YOU PLEASE STOP PROVIDING EXPLANATIONS FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S BEHAVIOR!?! Let F.C. explain the apparent contradiction between being a "first time player" and someone with 10 games under their belt. Then you can feel free to attack those people making weak and/or opportunistic attacks.

iamusername - I named three players who I did not remember posting anything substantive. There was no particular reason for omitting you and Tenchi.

[Hero764]

WILL YOU PLEASE STOP PROVIDING EXPLANATIONS FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S BEHAVIOR!?!

Pointing out what FC had said isn't explaining his behavior. Not sure where this came from all of a sudden.

[kikuchiyo]

Hero: What blatant lie? Interpreted one way, FC very easily could have been lying. Interpreted another, not so. Please adress why you are giving FC the "benefit of the doubt" in two seperate statements.

qwints: Rolefishing? If you are referring to the "mason" comment I would just like to say that day 1 Mason claims are pro-town. If Hero is a mason with FC then we are wasting valuable resources in pickling either of them apart. If you are worried about narrowing down the nk pool for scum I would like to point out that day 1 claimed masons are generally the first scum targets for nk. If your comment is in regards to something else, please clarify.

[Hero764]

What blatant lie? Interpreted one way, FC very easily could have been lying. Interpreted another, not so. Please adress why you are giving FC the "benefit of the doubt" in two seperate statements.

Benefit of the doubt, seriously? He said it was his first time on the site, and then that he had 10 games. The only way to interpret that as a contradiction is to add/take away words to his statements. You lied.

[qwints]

Hero - twice you have provided interpretations of FC's statements. That's what I'm referring to.

Kikuchiyo - I was referring to the Masonic comments. Arguing theory is unlikely to be helpful at this time.

[Hero764]

Hero - twice you have provided interpretations of FC's statements. That's what I'm referring to.

By that logic we aren't allowed to use anyone's statements except our own while scumhunting. Yeah, I can totally see that working.

[kikuchiyo]

What blatant lie? Interpreted one way, FC very easily could have been lying. Interpreted another, not so. Please adress why you are giving FC the "benefit of the doubt" in two seperate statements.

Benefit of the doubt, seriously? He said it was his first time on the site, and then that he had 10 games. The only way to interpret that as a contradiction is to add/take away words to his statements. You lied.

You are not addressing the timeline. He did not explicitly say that it was his first time on the site. Did you read my theorem post? You are interpreting his statements in one way and only one way. How do you

know

he didn't lie or attepmt to lie? Even if he is telling the truth, his first statement can easily be read as someone trying to play a newb card.

Read this statement: I like apples and oranges.

What does it mean? It could mean that I like

both

apples and oranges. It may also mean that I only like them when they are served together. It may also mean that I like apples, and the various shades of the color orange. Get it? You are interpreting statements in one way and one way only. Just because it makes sense to you does not mean the statement is clear and thusly you should nopt be taking up others arguments on their behalf.

[kikuchiyo]

qwints- I am not arguing theory. If Hero has knowledge of FC's alignment then he should be coming forward. Masons confirm each other. That's their power. Using it early can be just as useful as using it late, and in fact, moreso.

[Hero764]

You are not addressing the timeline. He did not explicitly say that it was his first time on the site. Did you read my theorem post? You are interpreting his statements in one way and only one way. How do you know he didn't lie or attepmt to lie? Even if he is telling the truth, his first statement can easily be read as someone trying to play a newb card.

Whether or not he was playing the newb card is irrelevant a) because it was the RVS and b) because he later said he's been in ten games. What is relevant is that you are saying he lied about his experience when he clearly did not.

What does it mean? It could mean that I like both apples and oranges. It may also mean that I only like them when they are served together. It may also mean that I like apples, and the various shades of the color orange. Get it? You are interpreting statements in one way and one way only. Just because it makes sense to you does not mean the statement is clear and thusly you should nopt be taking up others arguments on their behalf.

What are you trying to do, make it look like you have more arguments against me by using a horrible analogy? His statements weren't anything like the apples and oranges one.

[Hero764]

Masons confirm each other.

And then they get NK'd. qwints is right, you shouldn't be rolefishing right now.

[nadroj15]

Masons confirm each other.

And then they get NK'd. qwints is right, you shouldn't be rolefishing right now.

Wouldn't it be better to have confirmeds in the open now as opposed to later? If the Mafia nks a Mason, then they haven't nked a cop or a doctor or something similar.

[Lowell]

Sorry I'm not really caught up. Is there an argument about masons claiming? If so, I *heart* D1 mason claims. So I take whoever's side that is.

[DraketheFake]

Vote Count Four

Hero_764:

4 (dank, qwints, nadroj15, kikuchiyo)

kikuchiyo:

2 (Hero764, Tenchi)

iamausername:

1 (Neferenom)

dank:

1 (iamausername)

Tenchi:

1 (Far_Cry)

nadroj15:

1 (Mokina)

Far_Cry:

1 (Lowell)

Not Voting:

1 (Wiirdo)

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

[kikuchiyo]

My side. I think it's time to lynch Hero. He is arguing semantics which, in and of itself, isn't a horrible thing, but he is using his arguments to defend someone by interpreting their statements in an extremely "charitable" fashion. FC has done very little, if anything at all, to convince us he is pro-town, yet Hero seems to be extremely benevolent in his interpretations of everything FC says. There is no motivation for such behavior that isn't scummy.

Well, one. If you are masons, please claim. If not, its time to swing. Or at least get Hero to L-1 or L-2 and have him claim. His behavior is ridiculous.

[kikuchiyo]

Masons confirm each other.

And then they get NK'd. qwints is right, you shouldn't be rolefishing right now.

Asking the scummiest player in the room to roleclaim is not "rolefishing". Nor is requesting town masons to claim if they are wasting town's resources. Interesting take, though.

[qwints]

Whoa, Kiku - slow down.

It's WAY to early to be talking about a quick lynch. You seem awfully eager to force a claim early. Even if a D1 mason claim is a good idea (which I don't think is worth arguing about), you're asking for him to claim - that is, to be forced to claim - based on two scummy actions. I agree that his defenses have been at least anti-town and probably scummy, but we're on page 6 with a bunch of players who haven't contributed much. Tunneling on one player so early is a bad idea.

Lowell and nadroj's active lurking is noted.

[Wiirdo]

I agree with qwints in that kiku is pushing for a claim based on very little. It's not likely that they're masons, or even that masons exist in this setup.

[kikuchiyo]

I agree with qwints in that kiku is pushing for a claim based on very little. It's not likely that they're masons, or even that masons exist in this setup.

Which is exactly why Hero should be lynched, or at the very least, run up to L-2 and asked to claim. Also, do you have evidence to back up this claim that masons are not likely to exist in this set-up? I would say about half of the games I have read have included masons.

It's WAY to early to be talking about a quick lynch. You seem awfully eager to force a claim early.

Noone mentioned a "quicklynch" but you. Please choose your words more carefully. Trying to paint what I say in a poor light can be seen as scummy. Further, Just because it is page six does not mean it is "too early" for a serious bandwagon, a role claim, or a lynch. When the evidence is there, then action should be taken. I have pointed out two distinct times when Hero has "charitably" interpreted ambiguous statements in defense of another player.

Can anyone point to anything FC has done which would lead one to believe that he is pro-town? i.e. is he worthy of such defense?

[qwints]

My side. I think it's time to lynch Hero.
...
Well, one. If you are masons, please claim. If not, its time to swing. Or at least get Hero to L-1 or L-2 and have him claim. His behavior is ridiculous.

This seem like a call to quick lynch to me.

[Hero764]

kiku: What's wrong with you? You think I should be lynched because I supposedly interpreted a statement that you say was ambiguous and has nothing to do with anything? Hey, here's a good one for you: You're also interpretting his statement, and wrongly. You think he lied and his posts contradicted eachother, and even though they clearly didn't, you were still interpretting it for him. All I did was point out that he did not contradict himself, please explain how that's scummy. I don't care about his first statement, and it means jack shit what you interpret it as.

If you're not going to accept that then fine, go on using your horribly flawed logic and try to get me lynched.

[dank]

I don't care

about his first statement, and

it means jack shit what you interpret it as

.

If that's so, why have you spent the last two pages arguing about its interpretation?

[Tenchi]

Will get back into this game tonight.