Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[Mastin]

Though it doesn''t explain that Mastin is still posting in other games >.<

I'm here now, though.
Does anything else really matter?

Zazier, you're going way overboard to try and make him look scummy when he really hasn't done anything scummy. Miller vs. Death Miller is a stupid argument and he never really "lied" about anything. Time to get over it and move on.

Right. So I'm thinking VP, Khan, and Lowell are all scum together.

Mastin has been quite annoying most of the game and spamming the thread is a good technique as scum to make you unreadable.

1: Explain how scum hunting is "spamming the thread", and

2: For someone who claims to have read the whole thread, you sure do make a good habit of missing the fact that this has been confirmed as a NULL TELL.

Putting so much useless information in your posts and parsing every clause of a sentence makes it so no one can go back and look for your stances on players.

Only if they're lazy.
If people refuse to read my posts, not my problem.
It's theirs. They'll look scummy for it later on.

Why do you think this is helpful to the town?

Let's see...

-It's thorough. I let nothing slide.
-If I were mafia, my longer posts would mean potentially more slips.
-It allows me to be detailed in my suspicions,
-It allows me to outline suspicions over multiple players in the same post as an easy reference...
-It allows for a far greater level of freedom...

And I like doing it, anyway.

Why do you repeatedly bring up how pro-town you are?

I do nothing of the sort--
I say my actions are a null tell.

Read:
N-U-L-L.
Not
T-O-W-N.

I am pro-town, sure, but there's no point in me bringing it up needlessly. You're stretching.

Why do you say you try to get into trouble so the town questions you?

1: It's fun. REALLY fun.
2: It catches scum. Explaining why nullifies the point of it, though.
(Oh, and your reaction, not the pro-town one. It's the scum one.)

This is a load of crap and trying to lynch someone on a technicality. KK gave his role not his flavor.

Emerald is PART of the role.

NOT flavor.

Fishing for flavor.

Testing a claimed miller to see if he slipped.
I refuse to say (hopefully I didn't already) whether he passed or failed on that flavor matter.

My role PM doesn't include any of this. I'm willing to lynch you over this alone really.

Note to self: Keep in mind posts like this.

It supports a theory of mine, which would be anti-town to state out loud.

Like I said before, if you're town it's time to knock it off. If you don't, then please die. I'm asking nicely here.

No, you are not. You
-Resulted to personal attacks,
-Ignored some similar play from Zaz,
-And are basically trying to blackmail me.

Also, if you're so willing to vote for me...why the vote for Mafia? (I agree, Mafia does look suspicious--not as suspicious as you, though.)

I would nominate the title of Masin as 'zebra crossing' - the length doesn't bother me, but the insistence of quoting a line answering a line, quoting a line etc etc is giving me a contrast headache

Unabridged is better.

Now, Zaz. Wrapping up 27, with the first post of 28!

This IS my "holding back", SC! <_<
Really, you don't want to see me at full force.

---

End page 27. Literally.

[Mastin]

A-ha!
Found it!
I *knew* I would never go this long unvoted!

Johnny with this post single-handedly steals away my vote for such a scummy post.

Mastin Votes: Johnny.

Mod: Every vote count after This post which has me listed as unvoted is incorrect; I have been voting for Johnny this whole time

.

[Mastin]

For the mod's convenience, this is the first vote count since I voted Johnny.

[Mastin]

Anyway, going to bed, now. I read over ten pages and got caught up; happy?

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #15=-

Hayker (4) - Faraday, MafiaMann, roflcopter, Lowell
Kublai Khan (4) - ZazieR, Empking's Alt, ckool5000, Namttam
VP Baltar (4) - Kise, Mastin, reveillark, Mufasa
Mastin (1) - Kublai Khan
ckool5000 (1) - fallen angel
dvdkid13 (1) - Wickedestjr
MafiaMann (1) - VP Baltar

Not Voting (5) - Achilles, curiouskarmadog, dvdkid13, Redith, Hayker

11 to lynch.

Corrected Mastin's vote in vote counts 3 through 14. This is why you shouldn't put a vote in the

middle

of a gigantic wall of text.

[SerialClergyman]

Serial's epic re-read journey finds another gem

on page 11, had to stop at post 255..eyes are bleeding.

this has to be the most fustrating game to read (replace in) I have ever been in.

QFT

Page 22 and heading for the summit. No oxygen, no supplies, eyes fighting against me, brain shutting down, time running out, but dammit I will watch the sunrise from the top of page 28...

(bottom would be more accurate literally but it doesn't go with the mountain climbing metaphor. Poetic licence and all)

[VP Baltar]

Men?
We're not all the same gender, here. <_<

(Possible scumslip, though. The classic way for the leader of a group to address their group is to call them "men". Like, say, "the men I command are loyal to me". This would fit with a Mafia Godfather-type role.
It's a stretch, though. :/)

It is indeed a ridiculous stretch. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about in your posts. Why even mention it when you should well know that it means nothing? Why not attack him over having like two posts all game and saying absolutely nothing, that makes much more sense. Also, do you really consider things like this scumhunting?

Rolefishing. I will not answer this question.

You were the one rolefishing in the first place. You asked why Kublai Khan did not include a bunch of flavor things in his miller claim. Did you not?

Then show how this isn''t an obv fake-claim.

I'm going to break down the jist of what happened with the miller claim since you guys seem to be losing focus because of it. If my memory serves me, this is how it happened:

-KK claims his role, miller.
-Most people, including you Zaz, state that it's null and he should be judged based on his actions.
-You guys begin to press him about the miller claim for some reason and he says he's a "regular Emerald miller". So, he included his flavor along with his role this time. People flip over this. Again, for what reason I don't know. He claimed the same exact thing, just with flavor this time.
-Now people ask him what kind of a miller he is even though he already said he's a regular miller. He decides to PM the mod for clarification because of his IRC business and apparently you guys have made him unsure.
-The mod PMs him his role right back. ie, it says regular miller so that is what you are.
-People regurgitate these points again and again and again.

While I agree that he shouldn't have doubted his status as a regular miller because that is what his PM said, you guys have to keep in mind that you were the ones badgering him about if he was a death miller or not. Prior to that, I saw no suggestion from him that he could have been anything else than a regular miller. You're being revisionist and using confirmation bias Zazie. Your vote hasn't even moved the entire game has it? I think you've had some good questions put to other players in this game, but you haven't really followed up on much because you're stuck on the miller thing.

I don't personally feel he's as obv scum as you are making him out to be, and I would suggest you at least go through some of your exchanges and look at the perspective of KK being town and be a bit objective about it. If he still looks like scum to you, then by all means keep your vote.

Also, do you really think a claimed miller in a large game is going to be able to ride that claim to victory? Even if he is scum, he put a big target on his back and would likely have multiple killing factions gunning for him tonight. Say we didn't lynch him today, who would you like to see go to the gallows?

I''m not sold with VP''s case, but this is one point I do agree with.

What do you disagree with in my case?

Mastin, why are you constantly trying to compare yourself to Zaz? Zazie, are you concerned about the potential of him buddying?

Every time I've seen a player word their replacement request in this way, they've been scum. <_<

You really think this is a valid scumtell? What grounds do you have for doubting johnny had RL issues?

And with that, we lose any hope of Johnny answering our concerns. :/

Perhaps you can sum up the case. I've asked people multiple times now and have seen nothing of substance beyond him wanting to policy lynch you.

Really, [my playstyle] works well for catching scum--why'd I ever need to change it?

I've yet to see that. In fact, it seems more like you spraying buckshot and hoping something hits. I think if you were more focused you'd be more effective, but that's just my opinion.

Have you SEEN VP play? I've seen him scum twice (...and thought he was town both times. :/), and he was nominated for best performance as scum.
He's difficult to metagame and pro-town regardless of alignment.

Meaning, good player, good insight,
But a player extremely hard to metagame.
(VP, do you have any TOWN games to link me to for contrast? :/)

What is the point of saying this? It looks like you are trying to make the town afraid of me or something. What other scum game did you see me in? All i know if is the one that is ongoing. Also, you can find links to my town games in my wiki.

Why check the last page?

Because that is where I first posted to say hi. I also wanted to see who was being voted and by who so I could compare it to the progression throughout the game. You're saying you would not do something like that upon replacing in?

His name was Johnny Rotten. Not M. Rotten.
Possible scumslip? (M.-->Common abbreviation for Mafia.)

It's how the french abbreviate monsseuir. Also, are you being serious? Do you consider this scumhunting?

Rofl's drop in activity is concerning...

I'm pretty sure he said that he would be ceasing to post content because you guys were acting ridiculous. Also, you should appreciate his meta since that seems to be your excuse constantly. It's a NULL TELL.

I am effective at scum hunting. I just do it differently than most

I'll believe it when I see it.

Explain how scum hunting is "useless junk". I'm scum hunting. Pointing out things I find suspicious, possible scumslips, etc.

I just do it in longer posts.

I won't deny there are some good points in some of your posts, but there is also a lot of unnecessary fluff that makes the good points seem few and far between. This is my main issue. I don't want to read a post that takes me an hour. I have a life. If you cut the fluff out and actually focused on a handful of suspects it would actually be considered scum hunting to me. Like I said before, you are just responding to every little detail and a great deal of it is unnecessary spam. I am clearly not the only person who thinks this and it is clearly something you have heard before. Perhaps you should take advice once in awhile.

A little bit of fluff never hurt anyone...

It's annoying and makes me not want to read your posts. A joke every once in awhile is one thing. Having 40% of your post be composed of it is something else altogether.

Buddying...

How am I buddying with rofl by stating an opinion that I think his playstyle is more effective than yours? That doesn't even make sense.

Let's see. I

-have fun.
-Get us out of the RVS.
-Scum hunt.
-Get discussion going.
-Get suspects such as you from reactions.
-And so on.

My point was saying that your posting style is not as pro-town as you think.
-Having fun has nothing to do with that.
-We would have got out of the RVS either way, and you are inflating your own self-importance on this matter.
-What scum hunting is in there is indeed pro-town, I agree.
-Getting discussion going is the same as your RVS point, and would have happened anyhow.
-How are my reactions suspect? Your posting style is in fact ANNOYING. Explain to me how finding it annoying is scummy.
-And so on is not a point.

Venting on me, when Zaz has posted fluff as well, just in a different way than I do.
What makes you ignore Zaz's fluff, and focus on mine, And result to personal attacks against me?

As much as you would like to believe you two post the same, you do not. Her posts, while plentiful, are nicely broken up and are salient. Yours are a jumbled mess. When she does post fluff, it is in a separate post I can just skim over an ignore. Yours is all jumbled together and unfocused. See the difference? And again I ask you why you are constantly trying to link yourself to Zazier?

Right. So I'm thinking VP, Khan, and Lowell are all scum together.

Because I think lynching a claimed miller over bad points on day one is a stupid play? How much stock do you really put in this theory?

1: Explain how scum hunting is "spamming the thread", and

you clearly have a loose definition of scum hunting. see above.

2: For someone who claims to have read the whole thread, you sure do make a good habit of missing the fact that this has been confirmed as a NULL TELL.

If you say it enough it must be true! At best it's anti-town. Please stop.

If people refuse to read my posts, not my problem.
It's theirs. They'll look scummy for it later on.

Again, people have lives. Most do not want to stare at the computer for an hour or more just to read your posts and then have to make a post themselves. You don't even include a tl;dr of your main points. I don't blame anyone for skimming your posts.

Why do you think this is helpful to the town?

Let's see...

-It's thorough. I let nothing slide.
-If I were mafia, my longer posts would mean potentially more slips.
-It allows me to be detailed in my suspicions,
-It allows me to outline suspicions over multiple players in the same post as an easy reference...
-It allows for a far greater level of freedom...

-Some things aren't worth commenting on.
-Not if people have to fish through a 1500 word post for a slip. Also, this is entirely WIFOM
-Detailed without any kind of focus.
-Easy reference for who though? Say someone flips scum and I as a town person want to find your interactions with that person later. It becomes almost impossible because of the sheer disorganization of your posting style.
-Freedom to do what?

I do nothing of the sort--
I say my actions are a null tell.

Read:
N-U-L-L.
Not
T-O-W-N.

I am pro-town, sure, but there's no point in me bringing it up needlessly. You're stretching.

Things you repeatedly bring up again and again to insinuate how pro-town you are: most scumtells are null against such a "unique" individual like you, you claim sole responsibility for moving the game out of RVS, you inflate your importance in moving the discussion along, you are scumhunting so very very much.

No town player should have to be constantly referencing these things and their actions should speak for themselves. Do you have worries that yours do not?

Emerald is PART of the role.

NOT flavor.

Orly? Care to explain what 'Emerald' does to affect someone's role?

Testing a claimed miller to see if he slipped.
I refuse to say (hopefully I didn't already) whether he passed or failed on that flavor matter.

I call BS. You were rolefishing. And you tried to call Hayker a rolefisher for calling you on it.

-And are basically trying to blackmail me.

wtf? Explain this please.

Also, if you're so willing to vote for me...why the vote for Mafia? (I agree, Mafia does look suspicious--not as suspicious as you, though.)

Because clearly I think he is more suspicious. What is suspicious about me really? Seems like OMGUS and weaksauce against my predecessor more than anything.

I apologize for the long post. Mine will actually get much shorter as I get integrated into the game.

[SerialClergyman]

Serial's epic re-read journey continues, stumbling without shelter under the glare of an unforgiving sun. (yeah, it's a desert now. I'm going all Lord of the Rings epic changing scenery on you).

After passing many mirages, he finds an oasis in the harsh countryside.

Can you believe I got caught up reading in only a two day period. Although it could just be due in large part to slacking at work.

QFT.
I salute you, sir. Together we'll pull this global recession even further down

[MafiaMann]

VP is as bad as mastin

[Lowell]

Very happy with VPs first post. His take on the miller situation is well put (Zazie's pursuit of it looks worse than KKs response to said pursuit), as is his take on mastin's post-walls of idiocy.

[Empking's Alt]

Priceless re-read moment:

For sanity's sake, I'll be trimming down my post length for all of ya.

LAL please.

They are shorter. They're just four posts in a role.

[ZazieR]

Very happy with VPs first post. His take on the miller situation is well put (Zazie's pursuit of it looks worse than KKs response to said pursuit), as is his take on mastin's post-walls of idiocy.

Somebody has been caught with not reading the topic
Will comment some other time towards the bigger posts.

[VP Baltar]

VP is as bad as mastin

I already apologized for it. Now answer the questions I put to you.

[ZazieR]

EBWOP
And you still haven''t responded to the Kublai case.
Have you actually read it?

[Kublai Khan]

Are you saying here that I''m scummy for posting much?
It seems somebody is out of arguments and is now reaching.

Reading comprehension. Try it. I'm saying that you're attempting to steer the game towards a paticular target, logic be damned.

...

Are you a Lyncher by any chance?

The JR wagon is useless when there is no JR. I was voting him to get him to talk more but with him gone there is no reason for this. I'm going to Unvote. Vote: Kublai Khan. KK responses to Zaz's questioning make's this an easy decision. Why would a resent PM clarify his role if he already had it?
Kublai Khan wrote:
My Role PM says Emerald Miller. I assumed that if I was a death miller (or other miller variant), then iamausername would have told me. But if you insist, I'll double check with iamausername.

The first quote shows that KK already had the PM, the second shows that the answer to the question(will I turn up as scum at death?) was already in the role PM. If this was true then there would have been no need to ask for more information.

WTF? Look. I got a role PM of miller. (Sorry, EMERALD MILLER). It didn't list anything beyond the basic definition of what a miller was. ZazieR and Mastin jumped on and demanded more information than I had ("What kind of Miller?!"). So I PMed iamausername to ask for more detail and in his inscrutable wisdom he re-sent the PM I had already gotten. Presumably this means that whatever information I am to know is all that I can and will be given. The PM says nothing about death millership, so I interpret iamausername's response to be "No, don't worry about it".

Of course that hasn't stopped ZazieR and Mastin from screaming "scumslip!" loudly and often in some sort of bizarre belief that repitition creates truth. (Note: Politicians and Pundits do the same thing.) Trying to create an artificial reality is a scum-tell.

I mean, if Khan was town-ish, cops wouldn't really investigate him, but he's acting pretty scummy in some people's eyes... But they probably got interested at looking closer at his posts because he claimed, so I can't be too sure of anything right now...

You're currently voting for me, ckool5000. Are you only voting for me because I'm scummy in other people's eyes?

I just found something in a thread from another old game. Somebody (a mafia) was posting their mafia talk in the night and what was going through their heads during the day, and one of the things going through their head was:
"Don't pull a Kublai Khan and freak out about the fact that you're confirmed scum in the eyes of two players"

Eh? Link?

I'm calling it as I see it--you claimed Miller, and then changed it to Emerald Miller.
Can you see the point?

How is that a change? First, let's start with basic common sense. There's no such thing as a SK-Miller because that would be retarded. I've seen a Mafia-Miller (aka reverse-death-miller, aka innocent conspirator) before.. But it would be retarded for that role to claim as a normal miller, so that's out.

So all that's left is townie (or Emerald) miller. Unless Mastin is trying to claim that there are multiple townie factions or independent survivors in this game. In which case his insistence that there is a difference between "miller" and "Emerald Miller" implies that he has a greater knowledge of the game setup than I do. As such, I believe it's a slip on Mastin's part. A scummy slip.

Yes it does.
Inconsistency is a scum tell.
You claimed miller. No specifics. Just Miller.
Then you claimed Emerald Miller, after you were called out for it.

There's an inconsistency, there.
Can you see it?
I sure can.

It's not inconsistent unless you can prove that there is potential for "non-Emerald" Millers.

When given evidence to support that it doesn't apply, sure, I believe you should ignore "scummy activity" from me, because it's not scummy activity, but rather, just my natural play.

Are you kidding me? Why the fuck aren't people voting for Mastin???

Am I literally the only one that sees this as scummy?

Preview Edit: New posts have been made since I started writing this. This is a note to remind myself to look them over later.

[MafiaMann]

VP is as bad as mastin

I already apologized for it. Now answer the questions I put to you.

Uhm you didnt say anything about me in that post

[VP Baltar]

I don't assume you're blind, MM

[ZazieR]

Are you saying here that I''m scummy for posting much?
It seems somebody is out of arguments and is now reaching.

Reading comprehension. Try it. I'm saying that you're attempting to steer the game towards a paticular target, logic be damned.

...

Are you a Lyncher by any chance?

Are you saying that I''m using wrong logic? Now that''s funny. Because so far, you''ve only one argument against me left of the all the wrong logic you''ve used. Which isn''t even a valid argument as I have many posts, because I respond to each post with only one post. Otherwise, I''d have the same length post as Mastin. Yet, I''m the only one you accuse of this. Now, it''s your turn to respond to my arguments against you, as you have only ignored them.
And no, I''m not a lyncher.

The JR wagon is useless when there is no JR. I was voting him to get him to talk more but with him gone there is no reason for this. I'm going to Unvote. Vote: Kublai Khan. KK responses to Zaz's questioning make's this an easy decision. Why would a resent PM clarify his role if he already had it?
Kublai Khan wrote:
My Role PM says Emerald Miller. I assumed that if I was a death miller (or other miller variant), then iamausername would have told me. But if you insist, I'll double check with iamausername.

The first quote shows that KK already had the PM, the second shows that the answer to the question(will I turn up as scum at death?) was already in the role PM. If this was true then there would have been no need to ask for more information.

WTF? Look. I got a role PM of miller. (Sorry, EMERALD MILLER). It didn't list anything beyond the basic definition of what a miller was. ZazieR and Mastin jumped on and demanded more information than I had ("What kind of Miller?!"). So I PMed iamausername to ask for more detail and in his inscrutable wisdom he re-sent the PM I had already gotten. Presumably this means that whatever information I am to know is all that I can and will be given. The PM says nothing about death millership, so I interpret iamausername's response to be "No, don't worry about it".

Of course that hasn't stopped ZazieR and Mastin from screaming "scumslip!" loudly and often in some sort of bizarre belief that repitition creates truth. (Note: Politicians and Pundits do the same thing.) Trying to create an artificial reality is a scum-tell.

Demanded?! Check back. I asked for clarification.
And it was a ''scumslip'', because the first reason you''ve given for doubting if you''re miller or death miller, which is strangely absent in this explanation, didn''t make sense as I already stated.
And therefore, this is an obv fake-claim.
The scumslip was about something else. Another argument you''ve ignored.

[MafiaMann]

Your post seems to be a lot of defense of ckool as well

I see one point where I defend ckool, so please elaborate how I'm doing "a lot" of it. Also, please explain how this is scummy considering you don't know either of our alignments.

You said that my attack of him was scummy i said townies shouldnt get frustrated. You follow that up by saying why are you worried about being lynched. Double standard he can panic about pressure on him but i try and not get lynched and its because im scum.

I was trying to find out how what peoples opinions were on the miller thing and if it was worth pursuing. If everyone agreed it was not going to change anything then I wasnt going to wast peoples time with speculation on it.

So we're in agreement that you were feeling out the town's feelings then. Good.

ok

Um ive been over this a couple time I belive mastin may know somthing and he was hinting at it

So why are you not voting Mastin then? What town role would possibly have insight into the number of scum teams on day 1? Why do you describe it as hinting? He blatantly joked that there were two scum groups. Why do you think he was being serious in that post?

Theres no way i can be sure if hes joking ive been in games when town figures have info and tried to hint it to people. Having insider info does not always mean scum.

Im sorry but if hes stating somthing he believes is incorrect what is helpful about that?

Where did I say he was being helpful? I said you painted it as a lie when it clearly was not

He was giving people info with the belief that it was wrong is this not the definition of a lie. Either way it is clearly not pro town to mislead people.

I dont find anything wrong with advising people on how to play things in future situations.

Even if you believe the advisor to be scum? I barely defended kcool in my big post and you're already wanting to paint us as a pair. I would think someone blatantly coaching would mean something more to you.

Like i said i dont find anything wrong with advising people for 2 reasons
1 It points out the scum tell why would a scum partner do that
2 Whats wrong with teaching someone better gameplay it make the game more fun?

If you panic under pressure it leads someone to believe that they have a reason to be worried about a lynch.

I take it you've seen mislynches happen before. Did all of those persons go silently to their death or express no worry whatsoever?

No but people besides scum at scummy this is what makes the game work.

Townies, just like the mafia, don't really like when people take things the wrong way... In fact, it sort of seems like you're trying to make MM's statement seem weaker than it was!... or something...

No, that's not correct. Townies should jus tplay the game. Scum would be much more on edge about being "misinterpreted".

So why would a townie want to be misinterpreted

[Faraday]

I don't see that as a lie.

see this

Where's the lie in this post? Maybe I'm blind, are you reffering to the IRC thing?

[ZazieR]

I don't see that as a lie.

see this

Where's the lie in this post? Maybe I'm blind, are you reffering to the IRC thing?

Yes, as that was his claimed reason for being confused.

[Faraday]

general malaise and apathy i would say

Kinda same for me, tho' the game appears to have picked up in my absence.

I don't likeFA dismissing Lowell thinking he's scum as an old grudge? That's weak


Kise:

Where
did you previously voice this suspicioun of FA, Kise? I don't remember you believeing he was scum. Have you mentioned it? Or was it a secret suspicioun.


Kise, I'd also not mind a summary of the points against Rotten , as I don't see what he's done that's particularly scummy, or remember anything anyway.
This would be appreciated, if possible.

Wicked:

Let's not be getting any ideas from Empking.

Unexplained votes can serve their purpose, imo.

Dvd vote is ok., are you caught up on the game btw? Cos this seems to have happened a while ago.

Because they are always using it as an excuse

I agree that that's scummy, if used as an excuse. if not it's not a problem.

I just wanted you to answer that question.

Oops sorry, I was kinda snippy there

Moving on, it seems Vp Valtar is town, this is good to know.

Welcome Clergy!

Possible scumslip, though. The classic way for the leader of a group to address their group is to call them "men". Like, say, "the men I command are loyal to me". This would fit with a Mafia Godfather-type role.
It's a stretch, though. :/

That's like the biggest stretch ever mastin.


Eh,

All caught up. Want to see CKD/Clergy get caught up, and everyone should be up to date.

Hayker still has my vote, but I'd not mind a Fallen Angel lynch either, and could easily switch my vote over. They'd be my top two by a bit. Emp and achillies haven't done any scum-hunting from memory too, and appear to be fairly useless. Could be wrong, but nothing stands out.

Baltar looks obv town to me, and the Johnny Rotten wagon itself was weird.
Lowell also looks quite good from memory.
I think Zazie is making a mountain out of a mole hill over the miller issue. I agree w/ the earlier rofl post about why miller claim won't let him live to endgame.

Ckool looks like newbtown to me still, but he's never played a game as scum to my knowledge. However his play mirrors my first game on this site with him, so I'm not worried about him for the moment.I also don't buy this supposed lie, and think the slip regarding the vig, is what he said it was.

I'd like to see rofl get back into the game too, I can understand his feelings, but yeh, get back in the game plz.


Sorry this is kinda rough, but i needed to get back into the game and this was the easiest way to do so, as if not I'd probably just continue to lag behind.

[VP Baltar]

You follow that up by saying why are you worried about being lynched. Double standard he can panic about pressure on him but i try and not get lynched and its because im scum.

It's not the same thing at all, actually. ckool was frustrated and said he was going to stop talking after he answered the accusations posed against him. While I don't agree that is the proper play, it's not scummy in and of itself.

You, on the other hand, were preempting your comments and were feeling out the town's opinion. Cautiousness about commenting and being frustrated are not the same thing at all.

Theres no way i can be sure if hes joking ive been in games when town figures have info and tried to hint it to people. Having insider info does not always mean scum.

Please give me a single town role that would have knowledge of how many scum teams there are in a game and I will shut up about it.

He was giving people info with the belief that it was wrong is this not the definition of a lie.

You are saying he willfully gave incorrect information? Cause I'm pretty sure he said that he said something he may not have been sure about and it turned out to be wrong. These are different. Perhaps Hayker can step in here.

1 It points out the scum tell why would a scum partner do that

I don't understand what you mean, can you please reword this.

No but people besides scum at scummy this is what makes the game work.

If people other than scum can act scummy (and by extension get frustrated about possibly being lynched) wouldn't this be a null tell then?

So why would a townie want to be misinterpreted

No one said that a townie would

want

to be misinterpreted. I said that scum are more likely to actively be worried about being misinterpreted, especially if they are feeling out town sentiments before they make a post, which you admitted was what you were doing. To me, that is a major scumtell.

[fallen angel]

V/LA until 6/27/09

. If that's too long, replace me, but I will remain in the game if at all possible.

[MafiaMann]

You follow that up by saying why are you worried about being lynched. Double standard he can panic about pressure on him but i try and not get lynched and its because im scum.

It's not the same thing at all, actually. ckool was frustrated and said he was going to stop talking after he answered the accusations posed against him. While I don't agree that is the proper play, it's not scummy in and of itself.

Uhm why would a townie be that concerned about being lynched I played little more cautiously nobody would go out of their way to be suspicous.

You, on the other hand, were preempting your comments and were feeling out the town's opinion. Cautiousness about commenting and being frustrated are not the same thing at all.

Or i was curious as to peoples thoughts on this because I myself no little about miller claims.

Theres no way i can be sure if hes joking ive been in games when town figures have info and tried to hint it to people. Having insider info does not always mean scum.

Please give me a single town role that would have knowledge of how many scum teams there are in a game and I will shut up about it.

I played a game in which a character was given a list of ten things that helped to know. Also like mastin said at some point the fact that it was specified as CERULEAN mafia doctor leads me to believe we have two factions.

He was giving people info with the belief that it was wrong is this not the definition of a lie.

You are saying he willfully gave incorrect information? Cause I'm pretty sure he said that he said something he may not have been sure about and it turned out to be wrong. These are different. Perhaps Hayker can step in here.

He said he believed he was wrong later so why say somthing that you dont believe to be true. Misleading.

1 It points out the scum tell why would a scum partner do that

I don't understand what you mean, can you please reword this.

If you say dont do that next time it directs peoples attention towards it scum would not want to point out their partners scummy behavior.

No but people besides scum at scummy this is what makes the game work.

If people other than scum can act scummy (and by extension get frustrated about possibly being lynched) wouldn't this be a null tell then?

No there is no possible scum tell that is 100% going to lead you to scum im saying townies behave scummy sometimes as well but that does not mean we should disregard every scum tell.

So why would a townie want to be misinterpreted

No one said that a townie would

want

to be misinterpreted. I said that scum are more likely to actively be worried about being misinterpreted, especially if they are feeling out town sentiments before they make a post, which you admitted was what you were doing. To me, that is a major scumtell.

Im afraid that i dont think the same way you do. I dont think that only scum try not to be lynched and other roles have reason not to be lynched as well.