Mini 807 - Save the Mafia! (Game Over!)

[DeathRowKitty]

@DRK - You unvoted when xRx was at L-1. Why?

This post is addressed to Wicked, but CoCo should feel free to look at this too:

L-1 is a dangerous and I didn't want to chance it unless I was sure Reckoner was scum. After our inadvertent power role discussion, I was still considering the possibility he was a N0 cop and didn't want to take the chance on losing any information he might have gained. This changed after Reckoner's next post:

For more information, please see Post 313.

[DeathRowKitty]

If he isn't the vig and we actually have a vig:

- the real vig should not counterclaim, but just kill him during N1. It'd be ridiculous to counterclaim a fake vig as a vig.

Yes, this is correct. Shouldn't have suggested a counterclaim in my last post. >_<

What exactly were you thinking when you suggested a counterclaim? It seems to me you're a very experienced player and that slip-up from you is very interesting.

[xRECKONERx]

^ I also want to hear CDB's response. Good catch, DRK.

[ChannelDelibird]

If he isn't the vig and we actually have a vig:

- the real vig should not counterclaim, but just kill him during N1. It'd be ridiculous to counterclaim a fake vig as a vig.

Yes, this is correct. Shouldn't have suggested a counterclaim in my last post. >_<

What exactly were you thinking when you suggested a counterclaim? It seems to me you're a very experienced player and that slip-up from you is very interesting.

I was probably thinking too hard about the short term (how do we deal with this game day?) and forgetting the bigger picture a bit. That's slightly lame, I guess, but that's because it was slightly reflexive. It's a mistake, I can't deny that, but experience doesn't mean infallibility.

[PsychoSniper]

Vote Count:

qax42 – 2 (canadianbovine, nohandtyper)
xRECKONERx – 1 (My Milked Eek)
Wolframnhart – 1 (ChannelDelibird)
DeathRowKitty – 1 (CoCo)
Conspicuous_other – 1 (Wickedestjr)
Wickedestjr – 1 (xRECKONERx)
canadianbovine – 1 (qax42)


Not voting:

wolframnhart, lobstermania, DeathRowKitty, Conspicuous_other

[DeathRowKitty]

@CoCo

When I explained my ideas and logic, you swiftly unvoted. As did someone else...

You didn't explain this in your last post.

What are your opinions on Wicked? wolfram? CDB? qax? (not that I need to prompt you for this one but...) me?

[stuntkeyboardist]

Wow, this is a pretty slow day. I know this is off topic, but DRK, I love your avatar.

[DeathRowKitty]

Thanks. I figured an avatar would make it easier to find my posts.

Wow, this is a pretty slow day.

Clearly we should only question active players. (On a totally unrelated note, I hate these smilies...)

[lobstermania]

@Town

: Sorry about this, but

I'm going to be V/LA till Tuesday at the earliest

.

I have a lot to respond to and more to comment on, but it would take too long to write the post, and I only have time right to post V/LA notices in the games I am active in. [....] I apologize that this is all I have time for.

Maybe it's just me, but does this post seem like an "I being suspected/voted, so I wont be here to answer questions" sort of post? I mean, maybe you'll honestly be gone, but there were a few important points brought up regarding your game. By not answering these before you leave, it seems a bit dodgy. [....]

aying you'll be gone seems VERY scummy to me.

Seriously?!?

FoS: Nohands

, you're smarter than that. If you look at qax's other game he posted the same thing. Try harder.

[stuntkeyboardist]

@Town

: Sorry about this, but

I'm going to be V/LA till Tuesday at the earliest

.

I have a lot to respond to and more to comment on, but it would take too long to write the post, and I only have time right to post V/LA notices in the games I am active in. [....] I apologize that this is all I have time for.

Maybe it's just me, but does this post seem like an "I being suspected/voted, so I wont be here to answer questions" sort of post? I mean, maybe you'll honestly be gone, but there were a few important points brought up regarding your game. By not answering these before you leave, it seems a bit dodgy. [....]

aying you'll be gone seems VERY scummy to me.

Seriously?!?

FoS: Nohands

, you're smarter than that. If you look at qax's other game he posted the same thing. Try harder.

You're FoSing me because I didnt read his other games. You know this right? And even so, how hard would it be to say the same thing in multiple games if it means you winning as scum in one. You're only taking his V/LA at face value. When he decides to come back, this can be discussed further as he will have to respond to everything that has been asked thus far.

But note that I'm not primarily voting for him because he's gone, but because he had HOURS to respond to what was happening. And at that time, a lot of it was focused around him. All we got was a, "Wow, there's a lot to say," then a few hours later, we got "There's a lot to say, but I'll be V/LA, so... bye." I mean, come on. It takes five minutes to respond to an argument, not 7 hours. He could have responded before he left.

[CoCo]

@CoCo

When I explained my ideas and logic, you swiftly unvoted. As did someone else...

You didn't explain this in your last post.

What are your opinions on Wicked? wolfram? CDB? qax? (not that I need to prompt you for this one but...) me?

You are correct, I didn't explain them. At least not with all the graphs and charts people expect apparently.

I have no opinions on the other players you mention. I'm still observing. When I think of something, I'll be sure to make a post about it.

As for you, I'm still highly suspicious.

[CoCo]

As to my getting on another player's case about L-1, I already explained this. Do you not feel that cop is an important enough role that I wouldn't want to vote until I was sure?

If I really wanted a quicklynch on Reckoner, my best course of action would have been to "not notice" the L-1 situation and post again after the situation played out. Notice my actual actions in that situation. I read qax's L-1 vote and my first instinct was to unvote Reckoner to keep him out of L-1. Only then did I take the time to re-read the previous few posts and respond to qax.

Here. I notice you have said little in this post regarding you putting Reckoner back on L-1 after someone else unvoted.

And what makes you sure Reckoner is a cop? It seems to me that entire conversation could be scum fishing for power roles.

[xRECKONERx]

I didn't say I was a cop, did I?
Pay attention, please.

FoS CoCo

for not having any suspicions on anyone or any opinions whatsoever. With this much content, it's entirely absurd to not have an opinion on anyone at this point. Oh, right. Except for DRK, and that suspicion just seems like a OMGUS waiting to happen.

[CoCo]

I didn't say I was a cop, did I?
Pay attention, please.

I never said you did. I was remarking on this conversation and mixed up whom I thought was being discussed.
Sometimes reading posts, its easy to get turned all around in the sea of quotes. Especially for those like myself who are unused to this forum software.

DeathRowKitty wrote:
The only plausible reason I can think of for a townie to withhold reasoning is if he/she's a cop or something similar and got information from that. Since we haven't had a night yet and you couldn't have gotten any information like that, there's no reason to withhold your reasoning. Of course someone's going to think you're suspicious!


How can you be sure he isn't a power-role? As far as I can tell, there is nothing saying the cop, if there is one, wasn't allowed N0 check? I'm reasonably new to the site (not the game), but there's nothing I've seen that states the moderator needs to explain every part of the flavor of the game upfront.

You might not be new to the game, but I am. I figured if there was a N0, the mafia (town in this case) would be given a kill, but I've never actually seen a game with a N0. Bad assumption on my part.

Even if he is a cop with an N0 check, it wouldn't be in his best interest to call attention to himself with a post like that.

FoS CoCo

for not having any suspicions on anyone or any opinions whatsoever. With this much content, it's entirely absurd to not have an opinion on anyone at this point. Oh, right. Except for DRK, and that suspicion just seems like a OMGUS waiting to happen.

Excuse me. It takes time to follow several discussions at once. I'm picking them apart one at a time. If I find anything I feel is suspicious, I'll inform the town.

An OMGUS waiting to happen? How so? Because I wasn't around for a couple days posting every half hour and was accused of lurking, and when I do I poke and prod at someone's inconsistency? That's hardly OMGUS.

I try not to post a lot anyway because, as I said, I'm still trying to follow discussions on a forum I can't jump back to a quoted post.

[Wickedestjr]

I just read page 13.

Can we all lynch wolfram now? Thanks.

*sarcasm* Oh sure. Whatever ya say CDB.

Vote: wolf

*sarcasm*

*serious*

Unvote: wolf

Now let's not be too eager CDB.

Mafia Hitman would be an incredibly risky D1 claim for the scum.

It would, but he's out of options at this point. Everything he writes reeks of desperation.

Yeah, but vig isn't necessarily the best idea for a claim.

Right now, I am a bit suspicious of NHT. Come to think of it. I am starting to get a town read of CDB right now because even though he has started all the bandwagons, most/all of them have been good ones. It is NHT that casually takes part in all these bandwagons. As a matter of fact I am going to

Vote: NHT

.

I'd like Wickedest to explain why he has his vote on C_o right now.

This vote was mostly because I wanted C_o to start talking more. It is also becuase I find it a little bit scummy how he hasn't contributed much. Now I have better options for placing my vote.

Mafia Hitman, according to mikeburnfire's flash site, is a mafia guy whose kills cannot be stopped by doc protection or a roleblock.

That strengthens my case for his claim being false then, if it is a well-known term.

Mafia Hitman isn't actually a very commonly used role. (At least that's what I think.) What is the mafia version of a vig in your opinoion?


@xRx - Do you plan on killing anybody tonight?

[ChannelDelibird]

Right now, I am a bit suspicious of NHT. Come to think of it. I am starting to get a town read of CDB right now because even though he has started all the bandwagons, most/all of them have been good ones. It is NHT that casually takes part in all these bandwagons. As a matter of fact I am going to

Vote: NHT

.

Could you back that up with a bit of evidence please? I don't recall NHT being particularly involved with all the bandwagons, in fact he's called me out a few times on that sort of thing. If you've noticed a voting pattern, please elaborate.

Has wolfram commented on Reckoner yet? I might have missed it.

[ChannelDelibird]

@xRx - Do you plan on killing anybody tonight?

FoS: Wickedestjr

Town don't need to know this. Scum, on the other hand, could benefit from knowing who, if anyone, the vig is going after.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wickedestjr:

Why did you feel the need to random vote CDB, then go off and also joke/random vote CB? Was one random vote not enough?

This was because the reason for my first random vote was really stupid. And the RVS is fun.

Furthermore, if your CB vote was random/joking, then why did you see it fit to defend it? A defense for a random vote should just be that it's a random vote: it seems to me like you're overreaching.

What are you talking about? Okay, I voted CB for the whole typing with no hands issue. Then CB revoted, which I didn't find suspicious, and then said he should take credit for starting the discussion, when he clearly stated he woke up without a plan. Just because a person is scum that doesn't mean every single thing they say is scummy. I was pointing out what I found suspicious of him, and I also added the fact that I didn't think the revoting was suspicious, because either there had been people who were voting him for that reason, or I had a feeling that people would be voting him for that reason.

Also direct contradiction:
CB's revote is scummy
versus
CB's revote isn't suspicious

I never said that I thought the revote was scummy.

Let me throw your own question back at you... did you NOT find my reasonless vote on Wolf suspicious?

Not at first. Somebody, I think CDB, had to convince me.

Okay, this I agree with.

Did that really not cross your mind?

No it didn't, which is why I became more suspicious of you when it was pointed out.

This makes me want to vote for wolf more.

Straws: you grasp at them. Someone saying that they like the fast-paced-ness of a game or something is hardly reason for a vote. Speaking of which... why exactly DID you want to vote for wolf?

Wolf seemed to be tunneling on lobster.

So you are saying you withheld information knowing that it would make people vote for you?

Once again, when everyone else was all over my ass about the situation, you stayed neutral and just tossed me an occasional question. Why did you try to distance yourself from me?

I was giving myself a better understanding of the situation, because I found it a bit confusing.

And yet you're not even FoSing me or voting me after you've had ample time to see just how scummy my actions were... yet you say:

Wow... I think you win the reward for least helpful contribution in the game.

Vote: Conspicuous_other

First of all I wasn't really defending him, I was just wondering what was wrong with withholding information.

Then CDB gave me a good reason and I agreed with him, and now reckoner is currently one of the most suspicious people of my list of suspicions.

Could you please answer the question that I asked in one of my previous posts?

...once again, then why am I not getting an FoS or a vote from you at that point?

Like you said earlier. We could all give you FoSs and it wouldn't make a difference. FoSs are used to point out who you are suspicious of. I think I made it pretty clear in that post that I was suspicious of you.

I am not done commenting on this page, so there is still more to come.

[Wickedestjr]

What do you think about my suspicion of CB?

I'm sorry, could you clarify what your case is on him exactly? I'm having trouble identifying it looking through your posts.

Now that the bandwagon on him has died, he seems to be deflecting attention away from him.

I don't. I gave CDB an FoS because he started almost all, if not all, the bandwagons in this game. DRK says the exact same thing. DRK's opinion of wolf was pretty good actually and not the same as mine. I gave an FoS to CB for deflecting attention while DRK did the same thing for diverting suspicion. I see the two bolded as pretty much the same thing. Two of the reasons are the exact same and he also gives three FoSs all to the same people.

This was a mistake on my part, I thought that you said kitty had FOS'ed 3 people for the same reason, I missed the part that connected it to your

vote

. Sorry.

Was the bolded supposed to say "post"? If not, then I don't quite understand this post.

I think that reckoner needs to post a good defense that will actually get us to unvote, because repeating himself over and over again is nott going to make those voting for him unvote.

Unless you're willing to risk losing a town vig because we didn't believe Reckoner's claim, I don't see why you wouldn't unvote him. If Reckoner is lying about his claim, we'll find out soon enough.

The post of mine that you quoted was before I saw xRx's vig claim.

[DeathRowKitty]

Here. I notice you have said little in this post regarding you putting Reckoner back on L-1 after someone else unvoted.

And what makes you sure Reckoner is a cop? It seems to me that entire conversation could be scum fishing for power roles.

That's because I've already discussed putting Reckoner back at L-1. Read post 350. It tells you to look at post 313, which is where I discussed that.

I no longer believe Reckoner is a cop, especially since he claimed vig...

The post of mine that you quoted was before I saw xRx's vig claim.

Looking back, that post did say you were up to page 11, which is before the vig claim. Should've noticed that. Why did you feel it necessary to post that if you hadn't yet read through all of Reckoner's posts?

[Wickedestjr]

I didn't say I was a cop, did I?
Pay attention, please.

You pay attention. They are talking about earlier when they didn't know you were a vig, and they thought you were a cop.

Right now, I am a bit suspicious of NHT. Come to think of it. I am starting to get a town read of CDB right now because even though he has started all the bandwagons, most/all of them have been good ones. It is NHT that casually takes part in all these bandwagons. As a matter of fact I am going to

Vote: NHT

.

Could you back that up with a bit of evidence please? I don't recall NHT being particularly involved with all the bandwagons, in fact he's called me out a few times on that sort of thing. If you've noticed a voting pattern, please elaborate.

Has wolfram commented on Reckoner yet? I might have missed it.

Okay, looking back at his posts. He has actually been playing more pro-townish than many other players. Sorry about that. I should have never voted him.

Unvote: NHT

I was looking for the evidence I thought I had, but couldn't find.


@CDB - I didn't want xRx to say who he was killing, but if he was killing somebody, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

[DeathRowKitty]

Sorry about the quintuple post?! I could've sworn I only posted that once.

Mod, can you delete a few of those? They're a bit in the way of things.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Wicked, I'm not angry that you voted me, but when you vote me saying I was bandwaggoning, please note that I had reasons for all of my votes. Bandwaggoning is more jumping on other peoples' reasons.

[My Milked Eek]

Posting tomorrow, employer called and I am away in between 5 AM and 5 PM, I'll be more adapted to that tempo by tomorrow.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Sorry Wicked, I didnt see that you unvoted. I must have skipped over your post when I was skipping DRK's post-a-thon.

Mod, can we get an edit on those? Thank You