Mini 809 ~ Mafia ViPod (Game Over!)

[image]

Unvote

.

First, I will say of Pesco, I don't find him particularly scummy for voting VP Baltar whilst FoS'ing elvis. The way I interpret this is as an assertion that "(VP B is scum OR elvis is scum) AND (VP B scum more likely than elvis scum)", which is an acceptable belief.

[/url]It's really quite an obvious softclaim, but you have skilfully led the town to believe otherwise.

You have gained the attention of the mafia, and have set yourself for a kill.

I'm sure someone as experienced as you wouldn't have maid such a careless mistake, therefore I have to conclude that you wanted to die.

Wait, how do you know that the mafia picked up on the first, alleged, soft claim? How do you know they would have killed hasd? How do you know they would have believed the claim?

[/url]And you probably would have, had less attention been brought to your plan.

Again, how do you know so much about the mind of the mafia?

[/url]Death Miller?
Jester?
Unkillable?
Guy with a Gun?

Wait, why would a jester or a death miller want to be NK'd? Why would a bulletproof or a PGO drop such an 'obvious' softclaim, if the reaction to such an obvious claim is to wind up not NK'ing hasd?

[/url]That's where I have you for now, but I would still gut you on the end game, as bread-crumbing is scummy. There, I've explained myself.

You've just softclaimed - and softclaiming on the first day, where the mafia can't isolate roles just yet, is just begging for a kill. Thus, you are low hanging fruit.

You would choose to hang hasd in endgame based solely off of something that

could

be interpreted as a softclaim? You don't think there may be better things to go off of in the endgame?

Combined bad logic and seeming to know the mind of the scum too well makes me

Vote: PaperPenguin

.

Also,

FoS: Empking

for posting no content and hopping onto the VP Baltar wagon almost without reason.

[PaperPenguin]

1.) Trying to place yourself in the mafia's shoes is what every townie should aspire to do. Trying to look as town as possible though, is bordering on the mafia mindset. If I was mafia then that would be what I would do; I find it strange that you would look at even trying to predict mafia actions as scummy. Bad logic indeed, image.



2.)
- Having a death miller lynched would contaminate the town's information. It's so much better for them to go at night.

- The softclaim is obvious, yes, but it looks like a slip. Something the scum might fall for.

- There are obviously exceptions, and we aren't even on the endgame yet. I just wanted to point out, that on the event that I die, either by lynch or nightkill. If he claims and backs on his breadcrumbed on the endgame, then he is probably scum.


-=-=-
Really, you are making points against me, points that have led to a vote, out of thin air. This really isn't 'content'.

-=--

I already said that I like knowing the rules. How is that so hard to believe?

Once again, its the fact that the question was so public that raised attention.

Do I need to know what happens when the suicide bomber uses his ability? No
Do I need to know the minimum deadline time? No
Do I need to know how night action priority works? No

You need to know about the deadline. It makes lurking even more unforgivable, giving you a good reason to hunt them down. It might also be for the best to jump on a wagon to get someone lynched, for being slightly scummy, rather than passing of a no lynch.

Priority is unimportant to the vanilla townie at this point, there have been no claims. A regular townie would not concern himself with such matters at that point. Don't try to mask your claim as concern by mixing it along things that are obviously important.

[PaperPenguin]

Also, FoS: Empking for posting no content

It seems like you yourself are shooting off accusations to keep the lurker censors off your back.

[Empking]

Have nothing else really to comment on anyone else, except for the fact that wasn't that one game you're referring to in 108 a barrel of laughs, FL?

Were you in it? It was offsite, on a site that Vi plays at.

It's really quite an obvious softclaim, but you have skilfully led the town to believe otherwise. You have gained the attention of the mafia, and have set yourself for a kill. I'm sure someone as experienced as you wouldn't have maid such a careless mistake, therefore I have to conclude that you wanted to die.

Aren't we getting into WIFOM and needless paranoia here? Here comes Occam's Razor...

Is that really it?

just...ugh, FOS: FL

There's a difference. One, that was your first post of the game. I've been posting content for the most part. Secondly, that post that you selectively quote from has more content than what you've posted this entire game. I think that says it all ^-^;.

That doesn't mean you can get away with not giving reasons.

[VP Baltar]

First, I will say of Pesco, I don't find him particularly scummy for voting VP Baltar whilst FoS'ing elvis. The way I interpret this is as an assertion that "(VP B is scum OR elvis is scum) AND (VP B scum more likely than elvis scum)", which is an acceptable belief.

I don't think that is what he said at all actually. Give me your thoughts on these quotes:

There's no good reason for me not to suspect the both of you.

If I don't have 2 votes to throw around, I make do with a FoS. In my mind, I've already lined them up as my lynch preferences.

[forbiddanlight]

That doesn't mean you can get away with not giving reasons.

I wasn't. The reason was right there, though guised in exasperation.

Flatly, you didn't post enough, and piggybacked on someone elses vote.

Priority is unimportant to the vanilla townie at this point, there have been no claims. A regular townie would not concern himself with such matters at that point. Don't try to mask your claim as concern by mixing it along things that are obviously important.

Are you trying to rolefish or just really paranoid?

[elvis_knits]

If I don't have 2 votes to throw around, I make do with a FoS. In my mind, I've already lined them up as my lynch preferences.

The questions I don't like the sound of:

How could asking that question in thread be

harmful to the town?

Why would cow implying he has a night action be

harmful to the town?

Packing the gotcha's there. On a psycholinguistics level I notice the repetition which is underlined. E_k has been trying to paint cow's move as 'harmful to town' by asking the questions like this.

Are you really a psycholinguist? Because your read is basically the opposite of what I actually thought, and I'm pretty sure it's obvious from what I wrote.

I DON'T think cow's actions are harmful to the town. That's why I was asking VP how cow's actions could be harmful. Because I don't think they are. Unless cow is town and outed himself as a power role, and in that case, voting him is not something we would want to do anyway.

If you think I am asking loaded questions, why would you agree with me and vote VP? To the point of putting him L-1?

You're calling my attack scummy AND agreeing with my conclusion at the same time. That does not make sense.

It seems like a very dangerous thing to do, to put a guy at L-1 when you are suspicious of his main attacker. If you think I'm scum, then you should doubt the case on VP. But you're sure enough to put him L-1 on page 5?

I am free to suspect a person with or without agreeing to your opinions. When I voted, I knew it was not a lynch and made no further consideration for L- however much it was.

Of course you're free to do whatever you want, but it always makes me rethink voting for someone if I don't like the attacks coming from their biggest attacker. Especially if it's close to a lynch.

If you knew it was not a lynch, that means you must have counted the votes, and knew it was L-1.

Can you explain why these things don't matter to you? Because they matter to me, so I'd like to know your perspective.

I'd like to know now, why did you not post more concise reasoning when you voted me? All of this you could have easily said with the vote post, but you've waited until after some other people have voted and voiced their views. Why?

I didn't have time to do a long post at the time. And I didn't realize it would be that hard to understand... that I would need a long explanation.

In the post where I voted you, I wrote one sentence that summarizes my views on you.

For trying to have it both ways while putting VP L-1.

"Trying to have it both ways" was about you suspecting me and my case on VP, while still voting VP, which does not make sense to me as I have explained more since then. And the L-1 thing was there too. So everything that I have said since on the topic is present in the vote post, but I guess it was not clear enough. So I have since explained more.

[elvis_knits]

Oops, the last quote says pesco, but I wrote it.

[Sotty7]

Regarding VP Baltar, I do think his actions are unwarranted rolefishing but I don't think they're enough to make him scummy, at this point. The rapidly-climbing wagon on him does imply that it's v. likely for there to be scum on the wagon (even if it *is* a bus attempt), taking a look at the votes up to VPB's post #99 it seems as if he managed to garner 3 (three) votes during the RVS, which is definetly something to note. (2 have unvoted since, as for the third: Sotty7: do you think that your vote is still best kept on VPB?)

Yes, otherwise I would have unvoted. I'm from the same school of thought as VP, I like to keep my vote active at all times and so I am keeping my vote on him until I find a better home for it.

You've just softclaimed - and softclaiming on the first day, where the mafia can't isolate roles just yet, is just begging for a kill. Thus, you are low hanging fruit.

What do you mean by “isolate roles”?

Is that really it?

just...ugh, FOS: FL

There's a difference. One, that was your first post of the game. I've been posting content for the most part. Secondly, that post that you selectively quote from has more content than what you've posted this entire game. I think that says it all ^-^;.

I don't think it does.

Why are you choosing to push emp over has, VP, EK or pesco? (I say these four as they seem to be in the heat of it all right now.) Especially seeing as emp is known for this kind of behavior scum or town. Feels like a distraction to me.

[elvis_knits]

I'm having trouble understanding wtf paperpenguin is doing here. He seems to be saying a similar thing to what VP was saying -- that breadcrumbs are scummy. He's also pulling stuff out his ass like death millers. My feeling on that sort of speculation is that UNTIL we know something concrete about weird/bastard roles, speculating on them is useless at best, and confusing to the town at worst. Confusing the town, distracting from scum hunting, is very bad.

paperpenguin, are you from another site too? Because your discussion of death millers and jesters is not what I would expect from a noob.

[X]

I certainly believe hasd's explanation of why he asked those questions; I don't think it points one way or another to him being a power role. If you want to get really WIFOM'y, you could argue that it points towards him being vanilla, as if he were a PR, he would have asked the question privately to avoid attracting attention. (Alliteration!)

I really think it's not getting us anywhere to be guessing about Cow's role.

VP Baltar bringing up the question as an implication of a night action was, in my opinion, overall a good thing for the town. Scum almost certainly noticed it, and by bringing it up, VP B has given hasd an opportunity to assert that it was in no way a claim of a night action and that it should not be considered as such. If he in fact is a power role, this has given him an opportunity to cover up a possible mistake. (I mean, really. What was he going to say? "Yes, I admit it, I'm the cop-doc-mason-recruiting-vigilante!")

Yay tons of WIFOM. I don't like this paragraph.

I'm sorry if you aren't aware, but I work the shittiest job in the world and only get online in the mornings and evenings.

I'm not aware. But that seems pretty often to me. No matter.

First of all, you are utterly wrong that every vote shows lynching intent. But that is apprantly how you feel your votes should be weighed. So, we look at your vote. You want me dead and think I'm scum. Here is the important part: You simultaneously FoS EK, meaning you must think she is scum as well and would like her dead after I'm gone. This is all based on your premise that votes show lynching intent (and by extension somewhat, FoS's).

I find it a bit ridiculous that you think both EK and I could be scum.

I agree that votes do not always show lynching intent.

I also doubt that Pesco thinks that FoSes also show lynching intent. So I agree with your first part, but when you start talking about thinking both EK and VPB are scum, it's misrepresentation.

Never mind. Just read this:

If I don't have 2 votes to throw around, I make do with a FoS. In my mind, I've already lined them up as my lynch preferences.

Who knows Empking's meta?

Yes, there is such a thing as bussing and it is possible that we are both scum, however, most scum partners would not begin bussing their partners on page two, argue for two full pages (with hardly anyone else interjecting) and sit by while their partner went to L-1. It could happen, sure, but it's not bloody likely.

WIFOM. And because

you

are the one bringing it up, and now

you

have stated that you think EK is town, that makes it more likely.

PP, I really don't like your triple post. It's vague and an old argument that VP Baltar made a while back. This question is extremely loaded, and I can't see it coming from a pro-town player:

What I want to know is: why would you orchestrate something like this?

Unvote: Moriarty147

,

Vote: PaperPenguin

.

1.) Trying to place yourself in the mafia's shoes is what every townie should aspire to do. Trying to look as town as possible though, is bordering on the mafia mindset. If I was mafia then that would be what I would do; I find it strange that you would look at even trying to predict mafia actions as scummy. Bad logic indeed, image.

So looking town is scummy, and looking scummy is town? Wow.

- Having a death miller lynched would contaminate the town's information. It's so much better for them to go at night.

It'll still contaminate the town's information. They'll think there is an extra Vig or SK or who knows what.

That doesn't mean you can get away with not giving reasons.

Pot...kettle...black...

Are you really a psycholinguist? Because your read is basically the opposite of what I actually thought, and I'm pretty sure it's obvious from what I wrote.

QFT.

[Pesco47]

Are you really a psycholinguist? Because your read is basically the opposite of what I actually thought, and I'm pretty sure it's obvious from what I wrote.

Still studying but I know enough to make the observation. The point of reference in your questions is the phrase 'harmful to town'. It asks things from a negative perspective. If the respondent isn't careful, you've baited them into a slip.

Your one-liner reason for voting me can hardly be called sufficient for telling everyone what your thought process was. And why should it take a long time for you to post was is clearly obvious to your thinking? If you see something so glaringly wrong, you surely can't be so slow as to require more than a minute to point it out and say so. Posts take time when you want to put heavy thoughts into choosing your words and framing your questions. I see your point of view on me and I don't feel it could have been such an intensive exercise to say what you felt right there and then.

[VP Baltar]

Who knows Empking's meta?

I do. He just acts like a nussiance all game and explians his motives very little. He is nearly impossible to read and is certainly not someone you want around in lylo.

[elvis_knits]

Are you really a psycholinguist? Because your read is basically the opposite of what I actually thought, and I'm pretty sure it's obvious from what I wrote.

Still studying but I know enough to make the observation. The point of reference in your questions is the phrase 'harmful to town'. It asks things from a negative perspective. If the respondent isn't careful, you've baited them into a slip.

But I was asking how cows actions are harmful to town. Because I don't see how they are. So how can I be trying to say that cows actions are harmful to town?

You're assuming that I can somehow hypnotize people and implant ideas into their head by saying the opposite of what I want them to think?

Also, VP was the first one to originate the phrase "harmful to town" in post 73 when talking about cow's question. I only reused it because I was trying to be exact and refer to his wording.

Basically your whole idea here is ridiculous on more than one level.

Your one-liner reason for voting me can hardly be called sufficient for telling everyone what your thought process was. And why should it take a long time for you to post was is clearly obvious to your thinking? If you see something so glaringly wrong, you surely can't be so slow as to require more than a minute to point it out and say so. Posts take time when you want to put heavy thoughts into choosing your words and framing your questions. I see your point of view on me and I don't feel it could have been such an intensive exercise to say what you felt right there and then.

All my reasons which I have explained in more detail stem from the one-liner. You can see how that's true. I didn't have time to do more than that at the time when I wrote the post. Maybe I could have written a few more sentences, but I didn't think it was really necessary, as I thought your behavior was obviously scummy.

[image]

First, I will say of Pesco, I don't find him particularly scummy for voting VP Baltar whilst FoS'ing elvis. The way I interpret this is as an assertion that "(VP B is scum OR elvis is scum) AND (VP B scum more likely than elvis scum)", which is an acceptable belief.

I don't think that is what he said at all actually. Give me your thoughts on these quotes:

There's no good reason for me not to suspect the both of you.

If I don't have 2 votes to throw around, I make do with a FoS. In my mind, I've already lined them up as my lynch preferences.

If you interpret "OR" as a logical, not necessarily exclusive or, which is how I intended it to be interpreted, than those quotes seem (to me at least) to enforce my interpretation. Pesco suspecting both of you does not imply that he thinks the two of you are scum together, merely that he thinks that each of you is more likely than the average person to be scum.

@Pesco

: Do you think it likely that elvis and VP Baltar are scum together? Or merely that at least one of them is scum? Why do you find VP Baltar more likely scum than elvis?

[Juls]

Catching up on all my games tonight....but have to eat dinner now. Post coming later.

[forbiddanlight]

Why are you choosing to push emp over has, VP, EK or pesco? (I say these four as they seem to be in the heat of it all right now.) Especially seeing as emp is known for this kind of behavior scum or town. Feels like a distraction to me.

I dunno, I don't recall playing with emp. So, I called him out on doing something scummy. VP and e_k, while I suspect them a little bit, weren't vote worthy.

Why would I vote pesco? People still haven't really given me a good reason.

I'm not aware. But that seems pretty often to me. No matter.

Well, I've been posting pretty consistently for those times.

[Vi]

I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling--
Got to make you understand

Vote Count V + I:

You know the rules, and so do I!

Pesco47 (L-3) ~ Moriarty147, VP Baltar, elvis_knits, hasdgfas

VP Baltar (L-4) ~ Sotty7, Empking, Pesco47
Empking (L-5) ~ Juls, forbiddanlight
PaperPenguin (L-5) ~ image, X
X (L-6) ~ PaperPenguin,

image

Moriarty147 (L-7) ~

X

Minimum (L-7)

[size=0]image 0 | e_knits 0 | Empking 0 | f-light 0 | hascow 1 | Juls 0 | Pesco 0 | Mo 1 | P-Pengy 0 | Sotty7 0 | VP Baltar 0 | X 0[/size]

Battery Power:

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

|||

(68%)

[Juls]

What exactly do you agree with when it comes to Pesco?

I agreed with this portion:

Sure it's rather crappy for a serious vote reason, but look where it's come to now. You're still voting cow for lack of a better target, I expect you should find one pretty soon.

--------

I would like to know why Juls and forbiddan are voting empking over pesco.

I agree his vote was just an echo of my reasoning, etc, but his vote was L-2, and PEsco's vote put VP at L-1 (on page 4, not page fiev like I said last post). Pesco's vote is worse because it was the latest one on the wagon, going L-1 on page 4, plus she calls me scummy in the same post. If you think guy's main attacker is scummy, you don't put guy at L-1.

At the time of my vote on Empking I was under the assumption that Pesco's vote was actually L-2. I may have miscounted. Regardless, I felt like what Pesco was saying was a "on this hand" / "on the other hand" scenario. But doing it in the same post was troublesome and didn't make sense to me.

I see where it could be taken as a softclaim, but I honestly doubt it was, and people trying to make it that way are approaching the anti town zone.

Again, lets let cow's actions speak for themselves while keeping this in the back of our mind. It garnered conversation and made us question motivations of people who were pushing the issue. This is productive for town.

All caught up. I don't see a reason to remove my vote from Empking. I have seen Empking give marginal content as town so I was and am not satisfied with a piggy-back vote.

[forbiddanlight]

Again, lets let cow's actions speak for themselves while keeping this in the back of our mind. It garnered conversation and made us question motivations of people who were pushing the issue. This is productive for town.

Oh, I agree. It's just we are inviting everyone to cow's pond for some rolefishing if we keep this up.

[image]

I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling--
Got to make you understand

Vote Count V + I:

You know the rules, and so do I!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

(We know the game, and we're gonna play it.)

[Pesco47]

@Pesco: Do you think it likely that elvis and VP Baltar are scum together? Or merely that at least one of them is scum? Why do you find VP Baltar more likely scum than elvis?

I see a small chance of them both being scum, very likely for one to be at least. VPB's approach has been textbook-scummy (flinging whatever sticks to cow and rolefish), while e_k's been a more intuitive one to me.

[PaperPenguin]

So looking town is scummy, and looking scummy is town? Wow.

Acting scummy is indeed, scummy.
Presenting a likely guess on what the scum would do isn't always scummy. However, he acted like it is, without additional information.

[PaperPenguin]

Empking wrote:
That doesn't mean you can get away with not giving reasons.
Pot...kettle...black...

Err... charcoal calling the pot who is calling the....

[VP Baltar]

PaperPenguin, your vote is still on X fromt he random stage. We'll likely be at halfway to deadline very soon...who is your top suspect or who do you think would be worth lynching at this point in time?