Newbie 803 - Game Over.

[VP Baltar]

More votes on Clara plz.

[Santos]

More activity plz

Fixed.

[Zorblag]

Vote Count 1.5

The numbers by the voters indicate the order in which the vote was cast. If two or more players are tied for the most votes to lynch at the deadline the tiebreaker will be the player who has the earliest active vote.

Einlanzers: 3: jammer (4), Claramata (9), Porkens (10)
jammer: 1: Lupo El Loco (5)
jonnydelawelsh: 1: Einlanzers (11)
Claramata: 1: VP Baltar (13)

Not voting: Cartza, jonnydelawelsh, Santos

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Currently Einlanzers would be lynched at deadline. Deadline is 6:00 PM EDT/3:00 PM PDT on Tuesday, July 7th.

jonnydelawelsh has requested a replacement. I will start looking for one now.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[jammer]

Alright guys. I flat up give up. And seeing as I don't even get a "Bah" post after I'm lynched. I just wanted to make a post saying goodluck jammer and jonny I hope you guys win it for the scum because this town is lynch crazy towards one of their own and I guess they really don't want to survive this game.

IS there actually anyone besides me afraid we don't hear anything from him back?

I'm sorry if my newbish behavior has come across as scummy to you, but if you actually look you'll see that this is my first game in over three years on here. I'm rusty man.

Ok, Ein is new and found scummy. You say your newbish behavior makes you scummy in the eyes of VP?
If I count you with it there are 6 'newish' players. All are pretty unfamiliair to (forum) mafia, this is my first forum-game. This seems a little like the 'cut me some slack' post from Ein.

And I'm focused on Ein because right now he seems like suspicious to me. The NL vote, the OMGUS vote on Jammer, and the appeal to emotion after a wagon had started all come to mind when I'm thinking of scummy behavior to back up my opinion on Ein.

Who would you suspect as Eins partner?
Who is/are the player(s) you think is is town?

Ein, I want you to claim.

Ein, I want you to speak.

More activity plz

Fixed.

Just a question in between, is the activity low for a average?
There is a newb game that started at same time and got double of posts. I also see a newb game that started 2 weeks before this and got same amount of posts.

[Santos]

Well, Zorblag had to deal with a family thing, so he has all the right to be absent from the game. Everyone else not posting enough...suck it :p

[Zorblag]

Chiarosicada replaces jonnydelawelsh. Thank you Chiarosicada.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Chiarosicada]

Hi everyone. I just skimmed the thread and will be posting in the next few hours.

[Chiarosicada]

EBWOP: I don't want Ein to claim or anyone to hammer him before I post.

[Chiarosicada]

@VP Baltar

Judging from your posts in this game, I think I play much like you do. I agree with most if not all of your opinions so far.

What do you think of Santos?

@Santos

I like the way you prodded Lupo when he was inactive.

Why did you wait until after Clara and Porkens voted Ein to vote him? You didn't say anything about Ein beforehand.

@Einlanzers

Frankly, it's difficult for me to tell whether you're newbie town or newbie scum. Either way, rolling over and giving up because you're at L-1 isn't going to help your cause. Please try to answer the questions other players have asked you, because your answers will help the town even if you end up lynched today.

I definitely don't buy your case against my predecessor. Why do you think johnny (now me, Chiarosicada) is scum?

@Porkens

Why do you want Ein lynched? This post in particular stands out to me:

Ein is a good lynch. Vote for him now (hammer) and be a hero to the town.

You've seemed very confident in his lynch ever since you voted him on page 3:

Einlanzers wrote:
Well seeing as noone posted, I had no idea what anyone's personality was, so I couldn't even try to guess who was scum and who wasn't.


His very next post:

Einlanzers wrote:
I believe he (jammer) did it because he knows who is scum and who is not.


Woah there pardner, are you saying you now know his personality enough to unload this much of a direct scum-accusation?

unvote
vote: Einlanzers

L-2 (2 votes away from a lynch)

If he flips scum I already think his partner is jonny, for that chainsaw-defense vote.

Is this all that makes you sure that Ein's the best lynch for today?

@Claramata

I find your case against Ein scummy.

In other news: I'm a little confused as to Einlanzers' behavior. First he votes NL, which I don't understand how a NL can help at this stage, as it means that we are missing the information that a lynch provides us, such as who voted when and under what conditions, ect. His reasoning for voting Jammer also seems suspicious to me, seeming a little sarcastic over Jammer's supposed "experience" with other sites and mafia. Jammer's vote on Einlanzers seemed to me like an attempt to push him into an explination of his NL vote, something that seems to me like a completely viable play. 

Fair enough - you call Ein out on his OMGUS vote for jammer and his sarcasm. Yet, you're only "a little confused" about his behavior, and you aren't ready to vote him.

VP Baltar wrote:
Do you think Einlanzer deserves a serious vote from you Clara? Why or why not?

Right now he seems like a likely candidate, mostly because he seemed to get overly defensive for only one vote on him. The NL vote was odd, but not outright scummy behavior, his sarcasm and defensiveness towards Jammer after the question was poised seems off to me. 

unvote 
Vote: Einlanzers 

Why did it take a prod from VP for you to vote Ein? Your reasoning is identical, but this time you vote him.

I don't like this at all. It's as if you wanted to bring up evidence against Ein without calling attention to yourself with a vote, only voting when called out by VP.

@jammer

As I read, I found myself thinking the way you think quite often. You're active, ask relevant questions, and have been fairly even-handed in your interactions with other players.

Do you want Ein hammered at this time? If not, what are you trying to do with your vote on him?

@Cartza

Post or die.

@Lupo

You've been actively lurking all game. What players do you find most scummy this game? What do you think about Ein's wagon?
______________________________

I use a 0-10 rating system for scumminess, with 0 being obvtown and 10 being obvscum with 5 being neutral/no read. I will usually, but not always be voting for the player with the highest rating -- it depends on how close the player is to being lynched, how high his or rating is, and so on. I like to use this so everyone knows where I stand on each player at any given time. I don't make this list in every post, but only at times I think it's important or if someone asks for it.

Claramata - 7
Porkens - 6
Lupo - 6
Santos - 6
Einlanzers - 6
Cartza - 5 (no read)
jammer - 4
VP Baltar - 4

tl;dr: I think Ein is slightly scummy, but that his wagon and everyone on it is scummier.

vote: Claramata

[VP Baltar]

*waves* Hi, Chiarosicada

Glad to see I'm not alone in my thought process.

This seems a little like the 'cut me some slack' post from Ein.

Yes, exactly! One of her main points against Ein is his appealing to emotion, but that is the first thing she does when I start questioning her.

What do you think of Santos?

I'm not ready to reveal those cards just yet. Soon perhaps.

Just a question in between, is the activity low for a average?

I would say this game is pretty average for a newbie game. Even for a non-newbie game this might be considered average, but that is probably because there are some fairly active people here. I personally like it if everyone can make one decent content post per day, but that doesn't usually happen. You will always have a handful of people who are lurking, be it because they are new or because that is their style. The tricky part is being able to tell when someone is just lurking because they are not here or are lurking because they are scum that doesn't want to get caught.

Porkens, I too want to hear if you're still gung ho about the Ein lynch and also what you think of Clara.

[Lupo El Loco]

@Lupo

You've been actively lurking all game. What players do you find most scummy this game? What do you think about Ein's wagon?

He does seem scummy so, without certainty, I would not oppose him getting lynched.

[Chiarosicada]

He does seem scummy so, without certainty, I would not oppose him getting lynched.

You've been making these kinds of content-free, wishy-washy posts all game.

Here are summaries of all of Lupo's posts since the game began.

Page 2
28: votes jammer, no reason given
42: "I am not a crook", complete with picture, after Porkens and Santos vote him.
45: In response to jammer's "random vote vs. questions" question, says that random voting > questions

Page 3
53: In response to Santos, clarifies answer to jammer's question

Page 4
83: In response to Porkens, says that emotional appeals are null-tells.
92: In response to Santos, says he voted for jammer because

He seems to want to take the lead of the investigation a bit too much, and really actively questions other players to shift the attention away from himself.

Your retroactive justification for voting jammer sounds like total crap, and you've done close to zero scumhunting this whole game.

FOS: Lupo

This'll be my last post for ~12 hours.

[jammer]

@jammer

As I read, I found myself thinking the way you think quite often. You're active, ask relevant questions, and have been fairly even-handed in your interactions with other players.

Do you want Ein hammered at this time? If not, what are you trying to do with your vote on him?

Ein behaviour is scummy, maybe for a part that scummy behaviour can be explained with being new, but I don't believe all of it can be explained with a being new excuse. Yes, hammer may go down.

I want to see the next post of Clara and Ein to see if I want to switch my vote.

@Lupo, the vote on me of yours is as old as mine on Ein. I gave reasoning why my vote still stands.
You voted me on page 1 or 2 and comfirmed the vote on post 92
Is there a reason you are still voting me?
If there is, I like to hear a good reason.

@Lupo

You've been actively lurking all game. What players do you find most scummy this game? What do you think about Ein's wagon?

He does seem scummy so, without certainty, I would not oppose him getting lynched.

What do you think about Clara, do you think she is scummy for the 'silent' way she slipped on the wagon on Ein?
If you see that Ein is scummy and you do not oppose to get him lynched. What holds you back from voting him, what makes you doubt?

[Lupo El Loco]

He does seem scummy so, without certainty, I would not oppose him getting lynched.

You've been making these kinds of content-free, wishy-washy posts all game.

Answer me this then, what kind of "content" do you expect when it's day 1 and all people can possibly be doing is running their mouths?

What do you think about Clara, do you think she is scummy for the 'silent' way she slipped on the wagon on Ein?

Meh. No opinion at this point.

[jammer]

He does seem scummy so, without certainty, I would not oppose him getting lynched.

You've been making these kinds of content-free, wishy-washy posts all game.

Answer me this then, what kind of "content" do you expect when it's day 1 and all people can possibly be doing is running their mouths?

Find contradictions, look for mafia, what are the underlieing thoughs if there is a vote, is it a mafia sneaking a lynch on a towny or town looking for mafia.

Let me put a counterquestion, what do you think D2 looks like?

Random questions is just talking... It's easy for the mafia to talk and never take any risks. While by voting, they are taking risks that their voting record will ultimately look bad if they aren't careful. So I think random voting, at this point, is more likely to give clues.

If you think random voting is likely to give clues, why did you never change your vote?

@Lupo, the vote on me of yours is as old as mine on Ein. I gave reasoning why my vote still stands.
You voted me on page 1 or 2 and comfirmed the vote on post 92
Is there a reason you are still voting me?
If there is, I like to hear a good reason.
......
text
......
If you see that Ein is scummy and you do not oppose to get him lynched. What holds you back from voting him, what makes you doubt?

Anwser the questions, if you like.

[Lupo El Loco]

He does seem scummy so, without certainty, I would not oppose him getting lynched.

You've been making these kinds of content-free, wishy-washy posts all game.

Answer me this then, what kind of "content" do you expect when it's day 1 and all people can possibly be doing is running their mouths?

Find contradictions, look for mafia, what are the underlieing thoughs if there is a vote, is it a mafia sneaking a lynch on a towny or town looking for mafia.

Let me put a counterquestion, what do you think D2 looks like?

Like D1, except we can analyse the previous voting patterns in regards to who was lynched and who he turned out to be. Perhaps some insight from a cop as well.

[Lupo El Loco]

@Lupo, the vote on me of yours is as old as mine on Ein. I gave reasoning why my vote still stands.
You voted me on page 1 or 2 and comfirmed the vote on post 92
Is there a reason you are still voting me?
If there is, I like to hear a good reason.
......
text
......
If you see that Ein is scummy and you do not oppose to get him lynched. What holds you back from voting him, what makes you doubt?

Anwser the questions, if you like.[/quote]

My reason for voting you is still the same.

What "holds me back" from voting for Ein is that he should be posting more, and I hope his latest message is not the only defence he's going to give us. Was that really your last word, Ein?

[jammer]

My reason for voting you is still the same.

Can you build a case against me then?
Voting me for 'trying to take control' and 'asking questions so the attention isn't directed at him', to me, do not seem like legitimate reasons.
You can bring more attention to me, you have oppertunity. It would show the rest where the vote on me is based off.

What "holds me back" from voting for Ein is that he should be posting more, and I hope his latest message is not the only defence he's going to give us. Was that really your last word, Ein?

Ok, I understand you're hesitant bringing him back at L-1.
But do I understand with this, that you suspect Ein and me?
Any other people who you are suspicious off?

[Santos]

Lupo, you still haven't given me an answer to my question posed to you earlier...have you?

[jammer]

Lupo, you still haven't given me an answer to my question posed to you earlier...have you?

*knocks on computer screen*
Hey, El Lupo Loco, you missed this a couple times now. I expect an answer in your next post:

Lupo, would you agree or disagree with Einlanzers thoughts on jonny?

Lupo, this one if you missed it.

[Einlanzers]

I apologize for being "pouty" and wanting to give up, but it felt like the world was against me. Anyways I've decided to re-read this entire thread and answer some questions and give some insight to some things. Also I want to thank VP Baltar and Chiarosicada for actually trying to persue questions before just lynch mobbing me.

You're not lynched Einlanzers. I'm actually arguing against it, but you're not helping by being pouty and saying you want to quit. I know it's not fun when everyone's on your case, but that's part of the game. All you can do is answer questions and state who you find suspicious and why.

Sometimes you get lynched for bad reasons or because you say something that came out wrong. It just happened to me in a game I was in with Porkens. You just can't take it personally and have to keep playing the game as best as you can.

Do you find anyone apart from jammer and johnny scummy? If so, why?

I guess looking back I was a little quick-on-the-draw to pinpoint jammer and johnny. Just because jammer was talking a lot doesn't necessarily make him scum. Also johnny posted a vote pretty early on and just because it "looked" like a mafia defense it may not have been.
OK after getting that off my chest I think Claramata seems a little scummy for her post #54: Swinging her vote just because someone asked her to. She hasn't posted anything but negative things regarding me (I'm not saying I take this personally, but it looks like she's focused on setting up a bandwagon).
I can't really seem to find anyone that smells of scum so far. I'll let you guys know if I see something else "out of whack".

It's a factor for sure, as it always is when I play with new people, but Lupo seems more calculated in his actions and what he says (or doesn't say) in his posts. Ein is more like a VI than anything.

Wow I can't believe I missed that the first time around. Is Village Idiot an actual "class" that is given in this game. I can tell you now that I am nothing special. Not a doctor, not a cop. I'm just a towny. And yes the things I have done up until now are rather short-thought and quite honestly personal. I realize now though that even if I am lynched the town can still win the game (me included) if we kill the mafia. So I guess in a way if I'm lynched we know that the people who started it or are "heading" it are most likely mafia.

3. Post what you think about all players, a short description what you think about every player can show what your thoughs are, and give that way a idea how you think the facts lie.

I think that you [jammer], VP Baltar, and Chiarosicada are the only ones actively trying to "get the ball rolling" and so far come off as the least scummy.
I think that Claramata is scummy (read above).
I think that Santos is a little bit too opinionated about things (maybe a bit stubborn), but I don't think that makes him scummy.
I also think that Lupo is similar to Santos, but he seems to be posted a lot less, so its hard to get a good picture of him.
I may have missed something, but I haven't seen Cartza post anything.
Porkens seems experienced enough, but he also seems to be a bit like a "fanboy" and do whatever everyone else likes to do.

Ein, I want you to claim.

What exactly do you want to hear from me? I'm a towny I have no special role (doctor, cop, etc).

IS there actually anyone besides me afraid we don't hear anything from him back?

Yeah I didn't plan on doing anything but reading from my last post onward, but VP Baltar and Chiarosicada put me in a better mood and I have things in perspective now.

Ein, I want you to speak.[/jammer]
Woof!

Frankly, it's difficult for me to tell whether you're newbie town or newbie scum. Either way, rolling over and giving up because you're at L-1 isn't going to help your cause. Please try to answer the questions other players have asked you, because your answers will help the town even if you end up lynched today.

I definitely don't buy your case against my predecessor. Why do you think johnny (now me, Chiarosicada) is scum?

Yes I'm trying to be more informative now. I've answered every question I could find to answer. And I have also already answered the question about johnny up there ^^.

Oh and

Unvote

as my case for johnny was flawed. I want to vote for Clara, but I'll wait up to hear responses from you guys (I think I've swapped my vote enough so far ).

[jammer]

Wow I can't believe I missed that the first time around. Is Village Idiot an actual "class" that is given in this game.

If you didn't check the link I posted earlier, as I had to check w/e it was, here it is. It isn't a role or something, it is a term for in particulair new players who say the wrong things.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... lage_Idiot

I may have missed something, but I haven't seen Cartza post anything.

Correct, I think he has like a day to post(haven't checked) or be close to replacement.

Porkens seems experienced enough, but he also seems to be a bit like a "fanboy" and do whatever everyone else likes to do.

I honestly haven't looked at porkens like that. If I check back he seems focused at you, but I wouldn't say he is blindly following.

IS there actually anyone besides me afraid we don't hear anything from him back?

Yeah I didn't plan on doing anything but reading from my last post onward, but VP Baltar and Chiarosicada put me in a better mood and I have things in perspective now.

This makes me think I pushed you to hard from the start. Might have to reread what I did. Might be some 'aggresive' play was the reason you and Lupo where accusing me, might be something else. Atleast something to think about.

Ein, I want you to speak.

Woof!

Here a cookie

Oh and

Unvote

as my case for johnny was flawed. I want to vote for Clara, but I'll wait up to hear responses from you guys (I think I've swapped my vote enough so far ).

If a vote wouldn't bring anyone at L-1 or a hammer vote. I see no harm into voting as your votes are meant to show what you think.
As for my vote on you, I'll be rethinking it. As of now it seems the wagon on you can very well be breaking down. Due to the increased interest on Carla. It may be coinfidence but I think it started when you reached L-1, I'm wondering about the intensions about it. As the statements starting interest on Clara where made some time before you reached L-1.

I feel this post alone makes you add more then Lupo or Carla did. That is certainly a good point. As those are the other 2 I want to put my focus on for the meantime.

If I see it right, you basically pull everything you stated before back. And formed complete new opinions with this post. Like a new start.

Replacements are somewhat annoying now I think about it, jonny posted little. But he comes back on some posts, and you get a little bit off
who is who.

About replacement, jonny said as little that the replacer only started later in the game how I look at it. It seems strange to me if you come in midtime and you have to defend actions of someone else, and depending on something where you had no control on. How do you handle situations like that? Seems strange to me to be being confronted with playing style you had nothing to do with.

[VP Baltar]

See, einlanzers, it's not so bad once you just take time to think about the situation and get involved. Glad to see you are ready play. I'll remove my VI stamp on you now.

It seems strange to me if you come in midtime and you have to defend actions of someone else, and depending on something where you had no control on. How do you handle situations like that? Seems strange to me to be being confronted with playing style you had nothing to do with.

It depends on the situation. Most of the time a replacement is not expeceted to necessarily "defend" the actions of the predecessor because there is really no way the could know what the person was thinking. However, I will give you a tip for catching scum: if a player replaces a scummy looking player and continues to act scummy, it is very likely they are in fact scum. Moral of the story is just take people at their actions. The predecessors actions should be in your mind, but might not be the main factor in determining if the person is scummy or not.

[Porkens]

unvote

Lazer'z last post seems genuine to me. I'll believe his claim for the time being.

Someone else has been itching at my craw lately and I'll just come out and ask:

Santos; why have you mention Lupo so much in this game?

vote; Santos

[Einlanzers]

Santos

Vote: Living Players because we can't vote dead ones.

Whoa, shows how much I pay attention. A ':' would have been nice.

No, it was a joke, but the intention was voting for an actual player; I thought Living Players was an actual player in the game.

Yeah, Vote: Lupo El Loco. ...biatch :p

Are you saying that people who talk more are more likely to be scum than people who vote more?

That would be bad logic, if that is what he is saying.

@Lupo, what are we betting?

Lupo, would you agree or disagree with Einlanzers thoughts on jonny?

VP Baltar, why start with a random vote on an IC?

To answer jammer:

I've appealed to emotion before. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Lupo, are you done stating the obvious? Does anyone look suspicious to you? Why?

VP Baltar, are you going to include your suspicions in your reread post?

How should I post 'more' when I've been posting?

I'm posing questions to players. I would like responses from them.

Where am I 'looking how it unfolds'?

Where should I have 'opinions on the matter'?

Actually, ignoring questions seems a little suspicious.

Well, its good to speculate what things could and couldn't be regarding a player bussing his/her partner. On the other side, you may be right that she is being an opportunistic scum not trying to offer anything else towards other players who definitely deserve some pressure.

So you would have been suspicious if I "random" voted Porkens? Why? (Even though there really isn't such a thing as a random vote unless your roll a die or something)

I would have been suspicious that your random vote would be on an IC considering you are the only other IC. But you were merely being humorous, right?

I know I am not certain ein is scum, and I feel a lot more can be discussed before we move toward a lynch. Why are you in a hurry to get him to claim and possibly lynch him?

Because the evidence towards him is not looking good. It looks scummy. If he wants retribution, then he should do something in his favor so he is not lynched today.

I would like to hear your case against me Santos, since I am in your top three of suspects.

I have a case against you? I asked you why you voted Porkens, but don't think I had an actual case. Why are you saying that I have placed you in my 'top 3' suspects? Did I say that?

Why are you asking for other people to back up your suspicions?

I am asking for what other people think because if they agree or do not agree I can then ask them questions about their thoughts.

If you're suspicious of ELL and myself, wouldn't you want to spend some time questioning us?

Again, I've already got my answers from you. Lupo, however, has not provided a damn thing.

So what is my objective? Get a claim from Ein because he definitely is suspect #1 on my list today and after his claim move on to Lupo because he is suspect #2. I'm not advocating lynching Ein today, am I? Where did I say that? I know I asked for a claim, but I don't recall saying 'I want to lynch Ein today'. The best thing we can do today is get a several suspects on the table and then decide collectively as to who we all agree should go to the rope today.

Right now it would be very easy for scum to come in and hammer him if he's town and end the day.

Exactly. They could hammer him, but then that would give me the satisfaction of knowing they are the scum because it was noted that he was at lynch minus 1 and that no other vote is warranted because we need him to claim due to his scummy performance.

Putting someone at L-1 is the same as saying you support their lynch. I've just explained above how easy it would be for scum to come in and kill him. You have facilitated this by putting him at L-1.

Also, are you proposing that we get multiple people to claim today before we make our lynch decision?

1) I support the lynch if he refuses to claim. I will unvote if his claim satisfies my suspcions or I will unvote after his claim (regardless of what I think his alignment is) and move on to Lupo.
2)I thought getting at least 1, if not 2 people to claim on Day 1 is perfect way to start? How would this be bad? Well, for one the doctor or cop could be the one we picked on, but the fact that Ein put himself out there like that is his own fault. We cannot ignore the evidence that started this lynch in the first place.

Yes, you listed me as one of the three people you were and/or are suspicious of today.

I'm not sure where I listed you three anywhere, but yes, as I read the thread and reread the thread I have questions I would like to pose towards suspicious players. As I've played mafia here I've grown accustomed to spreading the field of questions to particular players I find suspicious as opposed to tunneling one single player the entire Day. Such instances have gotten me lynched before because no one wanted to work with me because I had such tunnel vision. As I work around the player list, people might begin working with me if I broaden my spectrum of suspects. Ex: Lupo ignoring simple questions asked of him. Other people in the thread agree he should answer the question. This is what I find beneficial as working together as a team to find scum.

Not really. You asked "right?" and "does anyone agree?", which looks like you are trying to get people to back you up. If you wanted someone's opinion on the matter you would have asked specific people and said something like "do you agree or disagree with this?"

Once again, this must be a collaborative effort, VP. If what I present in who I find scummy is backed up by others, then we definitely have something to discuss. If my thoughts are shot down or called unsubstantial, then I will have to drop it and find something else to work on.

Oh and in case its not blatantly obvious for those who might not read the thread and see an instance to put down a vote not realizing it was the hammer vote...


Ein is at L-1! Do not vote until he has returned with a claim and/or a defense!


Do not vote Ein, or you will end the day!

There, that should be apparent enough for the newbies who can't even properly vote, etc.

Whatever :p

Someone else give it a shot then.

Look at it this way:

If Ein was a cop or a doctor, then he should have been more conservative in his random vote for a no lynch as well as the OMGUS he sent to jammer.

People are saying its suspicious of me to want a claim from him? The man indicted himself. How are we to trust him anymore unless he gives us a claim?

And if he does claim cop or doctor, wouldn't that be good that we at least had him claim before just lynching him?

And how are you to trust him if he claims now? He could simply, you know, lie about it.

Aye. This would be the point. If he lies, he is more likely to be counter claimed. If he is not counter claimed, then we are more inclined to believe him.

1) If he claims cop, then we expect results from him.
2) If he is a doctor, then we can expect him to die tonight.

Unvote

Ein, I want you to claim.

More activity plz

Fixed.

Well, Zorblag had to deal with a family thing, so he has all the right to be absent from the game. Everyone else not posting enough...suck it :p

Lupo, you still haven't given me an answer to my question posed to you earlier...have you?

---

Lupo

Vote: jammer

"I am not a crook!"

Random questions is just talking... It's easy for the mafia to talk and never take any risks. While by voting, they are taking risks that their voting record will ultimately look bad if they aren't careful. So I think random voting, at this point, is more likely to give clues.

And that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying talking is meaningless if you don't put your money where your mouth is.

Both mafia and town-newbies are likely to appeal to emotion IMO

It might be a clue, but then again it might not.

So I don't find it to be very compelling evidence of anything.

To answer jammer:

I've appealed to emotion before. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Lupo, are you done stating the obvious? Does anyone look suspicious to you? Why?

VP Baltar, are you going to include your suspicions in your reread post?

Yes, jammer (which is why I voted for him)

He seems to want to take the lead of the investigation a bit too much, and really actively questions other players to shift the attention away from himself.

@Lupo
You've been actively lurking all game. What players do you find most scummy this game? What do you think about Ein's wagon?

He does seem scummy so, without certainty, I would not oppose him getting lynched.

He does seem scummy so, without certainty, I would not oppose him getting lynched.

You've been making these kinds of content-free, wishy-washy posts all game.

Answer me this then, what kind of "content" do you expect when it's day 1 and all people can possibly be doing is running their mouths?

What do you think about Clara, do you think she is scummy for the 'silent' way she slipped on the wagon on Ein?

Meh. No opinion at this point.

He does seem scummy so, without certainty, I would not oppose him getting lynched.

You've been making these kinds of content-free, wishy-washy posts all game.

Answer me this then, what kind of "content" do you expect when it's day 1 and all people can possibly be doing is running their mouths?

Find contradictions, look for mafia, what are the underlieing thoughs if there is a vote, is it a mafia sneaking a lynch on a towny or town looking for mafia.

Let me put a counterquestion, what do you think D2 looks like?

Like D1, except we can analyse the previous voting patterns in regards to who was lynched and who he turned out to be. Perhaps some insight from a cop as well.

@Lupo, the vote on me of yours is as old as mine on Ein. I gave reasoning why my vote still stands.
You voted me on page 1 or 2 and comfirmed the vote on post 92
Is there a reason you are still voting me?
If there is, I like to hear a good reason.
......
text
......
If you see that Ein is scummy and you do not oppose to get him lynched. What holds you back from voting him, what makes you doubt?

Anwser the questions, if you like.

My reason for voting you is still the same.

What "holds me back" from voting for Ein is that he should be posting more, and I hope his latest message is not the only defence he's going to give us. Was that really your last word, Ein?

---

Cartza

No, I played two games on 2+2(poker forum)...I'm still very much a rookie thou...

---

Claramata

vote: Cartza Lets get this all started everyone.

@Claramata
Happy birthday, what do you think about the 3 week decline. Do you think it is a (to)long time to lynch someone or think it is normal?

Thank you for the birthday wishes, I was about to mention that so that no one thought I was lurking or something.

I see that you're used to chat mafia, and I've played on epicmafia a bit too. I tend to prefer the longer deadlines from forum-based mafia, this way we have more time to gather information all players involved. The more time people have to talk, the more likely it is that scum will slip up and do something suspicious.

Do you think forum-mafia makes some people overthinking the mafia-game. Did it ever happened to you that there is an easy conclusion(that is right), but with a load of posts you draw other conclusions(that are wrong).

As this is my first mafia game in over three years, I'm probably not the best person to ask this question of, but sometimes large number of posts can point to someone trying to use false logic as a misdirection, again, those things can be good and bad, depending on weither people pick up on the misdirection tactics or not, but I'm solidly of the opinion that any opportunity for the town to talk is an opportunity to gather information that is vitally needed.

In other news: I'm a little confused as to Einlanzers' behavior. First he votes NL, which I don't understand how a NL can help at this stage, as it means that we are missing the information that a lynch provides us, such as who voted when and under what conditions, ect. His reasoning for voting Jammer also seems suspicious to me, seeming a little sarcastic over Jammer's supposed "experience" with other sites and mafia. Jammer's vote on Einlanzers seemed to me like an attempt to push him into an explination of his NL vote, something that seems to me like a completely viable play.

Do you think Einlanzer deserves a serious vote from you Clara? Why or why not?

Right now he seems like a likely candidate, mostly because he seemed to get overly defensive for only one vote on him. The NL vote was odd, but not outright scummy behavior, his sarcasm and defensiveness towards Jammer after the question was poised seems off to me.

unvote
Vote: Einlanzers

Sorry for sounding like a Newb, Porkens, but what's a chainsaw-defense vote and why does Johnny's vote seem like one to you?

A no lynch vote hinders the town because our most powerful weapon is our vote, a NL loses us an opportunity to find scum and gives them the advantage of a night kill before we've even attempted to push them out.

Admittedly I'm not a numbers person, so I don't know if the odds Ein is reporting are correct, but I've always been under the impression that early-game NLs tend to hurt us.

Either way he doesn't appear to be an asset to the townies. And seeing as I'll probably be lynched anyways I may aswell go down trying to help the town out.

Does anyone else see this as an appeal to emotion?

I see it, and I don't like it. I don't find appeals to emotion to be particularly town-friendly, and it's trying to deflect from logic. I'm keeping my vote where it is for now.

Clara, why have you focused solely on ein and not brought any original ideas to the table even though you have experience scumhunting and would know how to do this?

I'm sorry if my newbish behavior has come across as scummy to you, but if you actually look you'll see that this is my first game in over three years on here. I'm rusty man.

And I'm focused on Ein because right now he seems like suspicious to me. The NL vote, the OMGUS vote on Jammer, and the appeal to emotion after a wagon had started all come to mind when I'm thinking of scummy behavior to back up my opinion on Ein.

---

Porkens

Porkens replaces SensFan

Vote Porkens hater

I lol'ed, I really did Surprised !

I'm going to vote for the antepenultimate person to make a non-/confirm post.

@Porkens
If a topic is quiet and going nowhere, and players are heading obviously the wrong way and going to speedlynch townys, would you try to rerail the game as IC, even if you where mafia?

Your question is unclear to me, unfortunately, because if the game is heading towards a speedlynch, then it isn't quiet and going nowhere.

If I assume that you meant "or" instead of "and," then I think I can answer.

If a topic is quiet and going nowhere, and I'm not comfortable with that; sometimes I will just let it sit and see who gets antsy. Other times I'll do something to shake the game up to hopefully get conversation going.

If I thought the town was "obviously" heading in the wrong direction, I assume that fact would be, either at that time or later, obvious to other people as well. With that in mind, it would be beneficial to me to act in the towns interest, even if I were scum.

That is assuming the situation is obviously bad. Not all speedlynches are bad, and lynching a townie isn't always the worst thing that can happen. In some cases, as town, I've supported, started, and hammered towny-lynches and not regretted it at all.

Would you act otherwise in newb games as mafia if you can get away with it, then in other games?
Something obvious for a seasoned player, isn't always quite obvious for a new player. And as mafia would you kill the other IC to be left over as the only experienced player and have better shots at winning, or would you kill a lurker to keep a game interesting.

For what it's worth, I think I approach every game the same way, although the results usually come out differently.

If a scum-gambit would work in a regular game, depending on how many layers of WIFOM it had, it would probably work in a newbie game, so my answer to the question I think your asking is "no, I'd play the same ~general~ way." But that's not saying much as I haven't really established an obvious meta (as far as I know).

Would I kill the other IC or a lurker? Honestly- as scum, I'd never kill someone I thought was actually lurking, unless I had a very strong gut feeling that they were a PR. Lurkers can hurt the town more often than help it, so it's pro-scum to leave them alive IMO.

I generally ignore who's IC and who isn't. I don't ~think~ there's any rhyme or reason to the role distribution. That is to say; if one IC is scum the other wont be (I'm not 100% sure on that fact, though) so as scum I might NK an IC or I might not, it would depend on the IC and the game.

Oh, and vote Lupo El Loco

Is there a way to have links to just a post? In can recall an other forum where quotes are automatically linked to the post it came from.

The code for the above is

(quote="(url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 76#1724476)jammer in 44(/url)")Is there a way to have links to just a post? In can recall an other forum where quotes are automatically linked to the post it came from.(/quote)

just replace () with [].

to get the url for specific posts, click on the little white (sometimes its red, too) page icon next to the timestamp of that individual post.

Random questions is just talking... It's easy for the mafia to talk and never take any risks. While by voting, they are taking risks that their voting record will ultimately look bad if they aren't careful. So I think random voting, at this point, is more likely to give clues.

Are you saying that people who talk more are more likely to be scum than people who vote more?

Well seeing as noone posted, I had no idea what anyone's personality was, so I couldn't even try to guess who was scum and who wasn't.

His very next post:

I believe he (jammer) did it because he knows who is scum and who is not.

Woah there pardner, are you saying you now know his personality enough to unload this much of a direct scum-accusation?

unvote
vote: Einlanzers

L-2 (2 votes away from a lynch)

If he flips scum I already think his partner is jonny, for that chainsaw-defense vote.

I might be misusing the term, but from my understanding it means this;

When one scum comes under fire/suspicion/votes, the OTHER scum will vote/FOS/Attacj their attacker for, ostensibly, unrelated reasons. Basically "your attacking my partner, so I'm going to attack you."

Since Johnny hasn't said a word about you (Clara), but voted for you right after you voted for Lazerz, it comes off (to me, at least) as the kind of defense listed above.

Ah, but go go gadget reading. Cartza and Carla are, in fact, different.

Please ignore me.

Yeah, it could be. I'd like to keep the pressure on for a little while, though; at least till his next post.

NL takes all power away from the town. It only works on EM so well because the setups are all open and familiar enough to "game."

Rest assured that 1 vote != a lynch. Most of forums mafia is voting for one another and seeing how the pressure, or lack thereof, affects people. Your declarative "I'm not voting because I don't want to risk lynching a townie therefore I'm so protown" wont hold water, unfortunately.

I'm not saying that it MAKES you scum to have that position, but that combined with your OMGUS (oh my god you suck) vote on your attacker, in my experience, are definitely scum-tells.

Either way he doesn't appear to be an asset to the townies. And seeing as I'll probably be lynched anyways I may aswell go down trying to help the town out.

Does anyone else see this as an appeal to emotion?

I could see it as a noob thing. But to declare, more than once; "I am town and I'm being lynched...poor me" is a noob-scum tactic (no offense). So is "I'm just a noobie, cut me some slack."

I'm not saying it's a strong scumtell, but it is certainly not compelling me to move my vote, nor is it an acceptable defense.

Thoughts jammer?

Ok, I'm getting to my reread right now. While I'm doing that, porkens and jammer, can you tell me who else you are suspicious of, if anyone, besides ein?

I'm focused on Lazerz right now, and I'd like to reserve my other suspicions for the time being.

Both mafia and town-newbies are likely to appeal to emotion IMO

It might be a clue, but then again it might not.

So I don't find it to be very compelling evidence of anything.

How about Town and mafia-newbies?

Ein is a good lynch. Vote for him now (hammer) and be a hero to the town.

(real post commin' later)

Baltar, why aren't you voting for Santos?

unvote

Lazer'z last post seems genuine to me. I'll believe his claim for the time being.

Someone else has been itching at my craw lately and I'll just come out and ask:

Santos; why have you mention Lupo so much in this game?

vote; Santos