Mini 803 - Pale Moon Risin' (Over!)

[Kmd4390]

Why Camn Night 1, and why didn't you do anything last Night?

Don't you know my history with Camn? Ok, leave a 4 year old alone for 3 hours. Tell them "here's some candy. It's up to you if you want it or not" and tell me you expect to come back and see some candy still there. Same idea.

Didn't do anything in case of the RB. I don't want more actions wasted.

It was me risking losing an invention to a player dying to clear a player.

Again, what makes you think Zilla wouldn't have been blocked if your invention didn't go to Porkens?

In fact, a Zilla-scumdoc and KMD-scum Roleblocker would totally explain all the nonsense.

So did I roleblock myself, did I know that the target would get flavor, or did I not use a roleblock?

What does that mean.. "waste" a RB? Like, maybe it is a limited-use thing? How would KMD even know that?

Waste as in not use it. Waste as in they could stop a power role, but decided not to. Wasting as in using a limited shot is the exact opposite of what I was saying. The argument Zilla made is that scum didn't block anyone Night 1 (and apparently knew the target got flavor which would mean I completely made up the flavor I posted). So I argued that it would be a waste NOT to use it. I did NOT argue that a limited shot was being wasted.

KMD is totally scum. He tried to kill me. He is no JOAT.. he is simply scum.

Pfffffffffffftttttttt. I even told you in those PMs a while back (before this game ever started) that I'd kill you in a game first chance I got. You know you'd do the same if you had the kill.

[Kmd4390]

Why Camn Night 1, and why didn't you do anything last Night?

Don't you know my history with Camn? Ok, leave a 4 year old alone for 3 hours. Tell them "here's some candy. It's up to you if you want it or not" and tell me you expect to come back and see some candy still there. Same idea.

Didn't do anything in case of the RB. I don't want more actions wasted.

It was me risking losing an invention to a player dying to clear a player.

Again, what makes you think Zilla wouldn't have been blocked if your invention didn't go to Porkens?

In fact, a Zilla-scumdoc and KMD-scum Roleblocker would totally explain all the nonsense.

So did I roleblock myself, did I know that the target would get flavor, or did I not use a roleblock?

What does that mean.. "waste" a RB? Like, maybe it is a limited-use thing? How would KMD even know that?

Waste as in not use it. Waste as in they could stop a power role, but decided not to. Wasting as in using a limited shot is the exact opposite of what I was saying. The argument Zilla made is that scum didn't block anyone Night 1 (and apparently knew the target got flavor which would mean I completely made up the flavor I posted). So I argued that it would be a waste NOT to use it. I did NOT argue that a limited shot was being wasted.

KMD is totally scum. He tried to kill me. He is no JOAT.. he is simply scum.

Pfffffffffffftttttttt. I even told you in those PMs a while back (before this game ever started) that I'd kill you in a game first chance I got. You know you'd do the same if you had the kill.

[Incognito]

LlamaFluff, basically, here's what I want to know: Last night, when you were deciding who to give your invention to, what were your main thoughts about the roleblocker that Kmd claimed had targeted him? Were you leaning towards thinking that the roleblocker was a town one or were you leaning towards thinking that the roleblocker was a scum one? You should be able to have an answer to this regardless of your thoughts about mod flavor.

Once this is answered, I should (hopefully) have a more appropriate response to everything that's been said by you Today.

[Incognito]

Cross-posted...

Didn't do anything in case of the RB. I don't want more actions wasted.

...but we mislynched Yesterday and were therefore very close to a LyLo situation. Wouldn't the potential gain of using your ability outweigh the risk of being roleblocked considering your chances to use your claimed ability(ies) were getting slimmer and slimmer?

[Kmd4390]

I thought for sure I'd be blocked again. It would have been an easy way for me to be set up as today's lynch.

[LlamaFluff]

It was me risking losing an invention to a player dying to clear a player.

Again, what makes you think Zilla wouldn't have been blocked if your invention didn't go to Porkens?

I actually dont get what you are asking here. I will make a guess though.

I was only considering targeting zilla or porkens since they were the only ones I had a strong enough town read on, mostly due to roles, that I would risk giving an invention that was a vig kill to. I had weak town reads on you and camn, not near enough to give an invention going into what would likely be a lylo situation, especially one where if it was a vig, no lynch would lose the game.

LlamaFluff, basically, here's what I want to know: Last night, when you were deciding who to give your invention to, what were your main thoughts about the roleblocker that Kmd claimed had targeted him? Were you leaning towards thinking that the roleblocker was a town one or were you leaning towards thinking that the roleblocker was a scum one? You should be able to have an answer to this regardless of your thoughts about mod flavor.

Once this is answered, I should (hopefully) have a more appropriate response to everything that's been said by you Today.

I tried to strip most of the flavor out of it first, and see what the right move there was. Assuming I was just an inventor, and kmd has just been blocked. Given that the best move there was to not make an assumption on where the block came from.

As town RBer, kmd made sense as a target, as scum kmd made sense as a target. This again just drove me to seeing what the best course of action would be sans-flavor, and I followed that. People who have played with me in themes before know I try not to buy into flavor too heavily, with a role that makes the game as swingy as mine, I wanted to make the move that I felt was the best possible.

If you are fishing for an exact number though, I would say I was about 60-40 on it being a scum RBer. Not enough to take any big risks in my mind.

[Incognito]

Okay, given that response, I'd first like to clear a few things up here.

:arrow: If we are to believe that both Kmd and Zilla are telling the truth here, the only thing that seems to

lend support

to (not clears) Kmd4390 as possibly being Town here is the fact that Zilla has come into the thread and claimed that she's been roleblocked in the exact same fashion as Kmd claimed to have been roleblocked. Your invention-giving has absolutely nothing to do with "clearing" Kmd as town. So I'm confused by why you keep insisting that it does.

:arrow: If you buy both Zilla's and Porkens' claims and now mention that you were leaning slightly towards believing that the roleblocker was a scum one, with a claimed One-Shot Doctor whose ability works through the Night and a claimed Daytime Vigilante whose ability works through the Day, I'd think that the Vig would be more likely to be killed than the Doc

especially

since the Vig could only daykill and had the ability to use his power more than once. What would be more damaging to the scum assuming that the role is being used to 100% efficacy: a role that can be used an infinite amount of times (i.e. a multi-shot dayvig) or a role that can be used a finite number of times (i.e. a one-shot doc)?

Also, with you thinking that the roleblocker was more likely to be a scum one, you should have also been thinking that a Zilla-Doc would be targeted by a roleblocker while a Porkens-vig would be targeted for an NK. After all, why would the scum risk attempting to kill Porkens unless they had Zilla's Doc ability blocked off when, if Zilla's ability wasn't blocked off, their kill wouldn't go through and both players would survive the Night and seem "confirmed"?

Because of all this, I'd think the obvious invention receiver for you should have been Zilla (who only claimed a one-shot ability) and not Porkens if you were limiting your choices down to two people since

a)

you claim that you believe Zilla's claim and would therefore be thinking your invention would be ending up in the hands of town and

b)

your invention would still be able to be used by someone who is of the town and still alive; not some dead guy who can't use it in the afterlife. Your goal as a claimed pro-town Inventor should have simply been to make sure that your invention ends up in the hands of a townie who might still be alive to functionally use it; you'd have no control over whether or not the scum would or could "confirm" someone in the process (via an NK or a roleblock).


So that, in a nutshell, kinda gets at my issues with what you've been talking about Today.

[Incognito]

Also, Camn, I don't see the appeal of a Zilla/Kmd4390 scum team. Way too many things that have happened that seem to go against that pairing.

[Zilla]

Actually this is exactly what I assumed, the only high probability way that Porkens died was zilla getting blocked. It was worth it for me to essentially risk burning an invention to get someone cleared. There was a possibility that kmd got blocked, I got blocked, zilla died, etc, etc. Overall, I still feel I made the correct choice. It was me risking losing an invention to a player dying to clear a player.

Vote: LlamaFluff

This is rediculous. Your giving an invention to Porkens had NOTHING to do with KMD being cleared.

Vote: Llamafluff

[Zilla]

I wasnt trying to get zilla or kmd lynched off the push for a claim unless Zilla was going to say a block had no flavor attached to it. I was trying to see if I could clear kmd.

Vote: Llamafluff

You

didn't "clear" KMD with anything unless you were the one who roleblocked me (this is what I suspect).

Vote: Llamafluff

[Zilla]

How is it a wasted invention? It CONFIRMS TOWN. If kmd was blocked by a town RBer, then zilla was going to be killed instead of porkens. I have a hard time trusting flavor 100%, as a mod I like to ding people who follow flavor and site meta too closely. It was worth it to burn my invention in order to clear a player.

Vote: Llamafluff

This is ridiculous. Giving Porkens an invention has NOTHING TO DO WITH CLEARING KMD.

Vote: Llamafluff

[Zilla]

See my arguement about not buying into flavor blind, etc etc. I basically solved the question of what alignment the RBer is though. You are going on about the inconsistancy though, but I think what I did here irons it out quite a bit.

Vote: LlamaFluff

YOU

didn't solve ANYTHING. You asked if I was roleblocked. That doesn't give you ANY credit. Furthermore, I didn't specifically say there was flavor with my roleblock or confirm anything.

Vote: Llamafluff

[Zilla]

Again, RB scum = porkens dead, kmd clear. RB town = zilla dead, porkens with invention. I still think I made the right move here.

Vote: LlamaFluff

This is an extremely dense false dilemma. There were FAR more than those two outcomes from tonight. What if the roleblocker actually hit scum? What if, god forbid, scum didn't target me, like they didn't night 1? What if just about ANYTHING happened differently?

Furthermore, you say you "made the right choice" when obviously, you didn't because if you gave me an invention, we'd have a "confirmed" KMD and a Zilla with an invention.

Vote: Llamafluff

[Zilla]

....

I wish I had a Vote: Camn

My god, can you paint a target on yourself any harder?

In fact, she's almost cleared my suspicion on KMD just because of how she imped my case and then called both KMD and I scum over it.

[Zilla]

I wish it wasn't near LyLo so I could vote: Charter

Claim and post. Furthermore, don't no-lynch when all that's going to happen is I'm going to die overnight and we'll be down one town vote.

[Incognito]

That was the most awesome septuple post I've ever seen in my life.

[Incognito]

Oh and I agree. I don't think I even buy into a No Lynch anymore. Losing Zilla tonight just to try get the game down to 5 people would be dumb.

[Incognito]

I thought for sure I'd be blocked again. It would have been an easy way for me to be set up as today's lynch.

Why?

[Incognito]

Camn, thoughts on what LF has been saying? Why can't you see LF as scum?

[camn]

I just cant get around the fact that Myko got targeted!
How does it fit in?

And

unvote

I was being a little emotional maybe.
Kmd-scum couldnt have failed to kill me since Plum got killed that night.
Thus i must accept KMD-town....

[Kmd4390]

Zilla, you know you are technically voting Charter now, right? Unvoting isn't required.

Incog, I was blocked N1. Blocking me again would have made people skeptical. Blocking someone else confirms at least to that person that I was actually blocked. So if they blocked me, they'd possibly block a power role AND be able to get me lynched. I guess they weren't thinking that way though.

[camn]

i am having real trouble with the idea of KMD being a JOAT... And Llama being a JOAT-assigner? All in the same game and them being on the same team?!

So maybe one of them IS scum?!

I would guess KMD, personally!

[camn]

and whats wrong with voting Charter?
He DOES need to get back in the game.

[Kmd4390]

JOAT assigner? No. Inventor. Town had a JOAT/Inventor combo in Family Guy (the mini) too. Although, admittedly, the JOAT role was weakened there.

[Incognito]

Kmd, I actually think the way you're claiming this played out looks worse on you than if you had claimed to have been roleblocked again. It looks like you might be trying to limit information to the town by claiming that you didn't use your action last Night. If you're scum, your incentive for claiming the way you have would be to a) survive, obviously, by claiming a PR and b) not clear someone as town to keep the mislynch spread as wide as possible (I have no clue what other things a JOAT could do actually but I assume an investigative type of thing might be up a hypo-JOAT's sleeve).

Further, I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around why scum targeted you N1 and Zilla N2. RB-ing Zilla both nights makes infinitely more sense to me.

Lastly, I don't get why an ongoing thing with camn would make you want to kill her here in this game when during Day 1, you felt like she was town-ish and LlamaFluff was your top suspect after the VP flip. Why you wouldn't target him during N1 is beyond me.