Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[SpyreX]

@MBL:

Everyone in this damn game (except me WOO) is a power role. All AS have claimed AS. Coordination and analysis of what we have to work with is our best option right now.

@Goat:

See, thats one answer. I have one other I'm toying with too.

[MrBuddyLee]

I also find it sketchy that a non One Power user who supposedly can't night talk with One Power users, seems to have enough information to know for certain that it's win-win for all One Power users to fully reveal.

[SpyreX]

I can't tell if you're talking to me or not.

However, with the combination of:

1.) Masonry
2.) The ineffectual claims scum have made thus far
3.) The ability held by all AS to check one power usage
4.) The fact we've got 16 AS (I'm thinkin we got ballsy scum)

It's going to be a positive net gain.

What gets me is the "flavor" for strangulation lends to it being an actual strangulation and not AS style.

Poison I'm not sure about yet.

[Benmage]

I don't recall previously claiming Aes Sedai, but yes, I am one. Bonus info: I targeted MBL last night. It appears from things that have been said that my action did

not

resolve and was

not

blocked, and it did not appear on the list of detected saidar. In my opinion the blacksmith saidar conundrum has been explained to my satisfaction. I still, however, believe that MBL is scum; Isacc claimed Power-proof too, remember.

If we fullclaim, and I'm with MacLock that we should avoid one if we can, Goatrevolt should go next. There's a thing that troubles me, but I'll wait until after Goat claims to go into greater detail.

Unvote,

we’ll see how things continue to develop…

Ohh gee TSS is AS. What a surprise.

Personally, I'd rather have the MBL claim BEFORE the rest of it.

And MoS to answer my little question before we delve further.

I’d like an MBL full claim too.

Ohh, and before I forget:

@Ben, ABR, Goat:

If I missed it: Night 2 sleeping locations.

I never got twilight two resolutions from Kinetic.

Assuming the doubling effect of AS AND the fact that a DOC just came out, thats not really gonna fly.

Isn't it a little suspicious that a doctor offered to come out first and so willingly? Use your brain, man...

Why aren't you pursuing further, you've seemed to decided on what you think of that claim..

There's only 8 colors if you include Black Ajah. Thats part of the issue here.

And yea its a little suspicious HOWEVER with the bevy of power roles I wouldn't be surprised if its just a gamble.

Some scum who aren't AS may have claimed AS...idno probably they are simply black...I dont see the setup being forced into have equal numbers of all ajah.

If you're going to push a massclaim that could endanger the more valuable power roles, you'd better examine the pros and cons more carefully.

What are you worried about? Didn’t you not state that your death alone is benefit to the town…Do you still feel this way? I mean I’d die before the doctor role…

I also find it sketchy that a non One Power user who supposedly can't night talk with One Power users, seems to have enough information to know for certain that it's win-win for all One Power users to fully reveal.

I’m for it.

4.) The fact we've got 16 AS (I'm thinkin we got ballsy scum)

This.

@MOD I was surprised.. i didn't have an active vote, i unvoted just to be sure.

[Moratorium]

Claiming roles is unnecessary.

1. Yes/no (done)
2. Targets
3. Partners
4. Detections

And if there are any discrepancies in the above, then we get those specific players to full claim.

As for color, I really don't know whether that should be claimed along with targets/partners or not. I'm thinking not.

Of all the claiming opinions put forth so far, this is the one I agree with most.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Claiming roles is unnecessary.

1. Yes/no (done)
2. Targets
3. Partners
4. Detections

And if there are any discrepancies in the above, then we get those specific players to full claim.

As for color, I really don't know whether that should be claimed along with targets/partners or not. I'm thinking not.

1
4
3
2

MAYBE...

Look, the scum already know what detections were made on them, because they can channel Saidar, too. Us claiming detections first doesn't help the scum in any way, but it helps us figure out some of the logic puzzle and piece together night actions.

Ohh gee TSS is AS. What a surprise.

Personally, I'd rather have the MBL claim BEFORE the rest of it.

And MoS to answer my little question before we delve further.

If you asked me a question, I missed it.

4.) The fact I knew TSS was a AS before he said so means I AM keeping notes and I DO have a very, very specific reason for asking MoS the question I did.

Big deal, you knew TSS was AS. I knew pretty much everyone was AS before they claimed, why do you think I said there were 14 Aes Sedai this whole time?

@Goat: Why is it unnecessary? Please explain to me why I'm wrong. If you can't then your statement is just as baseless as MoS' was. If you're going to oppose something that has logic backing it up, then you need to provide an actual counter, rather than just telling me I'm wrong.

Like I've said a thousand times before, claiming role/color ONLY helps the scum, it doesn't help us in ANY way. You have yet to explain how it is beneficial to the town.

Goat:

Assuming the doubling effect of AS AND the fact that a DOC just came out, thats not really gonna fly.

However, I think we're up to 16 AS total. Which means something FUNNY is going on. Aside from 8*2 I can see ONE other solution that makes sense. But, for either of those at minimum the colors need to be known - and if the colors are known...

You can't count. We have 3 dead Aes Sedai and 11 claimed ones, for 14 total. 2*7 like I've been saying all along. Your retarded "black ajah is the 8th color" theory is just that: retarded.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Seriously, am I the only one who finds it ironic that Kairyuu and SpyreX, two non-Saidar users, would deign to tell us Aes Sedai how best to utilize our claims, when they don't even know the ramifications of revealing the kind of information we have?

[MrBuddyLee]

Why aren't you pursuing further, you've seemed to decided on what you think of that claim..

I will, for sure. I figured I'd get myself on record as cautious about fullclaims. SpyreX was trying to use KoC's claim as justification for everyone spilling full beans, and that sounds reckless to me.

What are you worried about? Didn’t you not state that your death alone is benefit to the town…Do you still feel this way? I mean I’d die before the doctor role…

I'm so tired of you. I can't imagine I'm the first.

Seriously, am I the only one who finds it ironic that Kairyuu and SpyreX, two non-Saidar users, would deign to tell us Aes Sedai how best to utilize our claims, when they don't even know the ramifications of revealing the kind of information we have?

No, you'd be the second. I'm non-AS and I can tell they're both being hasty and behaving in a suspect manner.

[SpyreX]

AS:

TSS
Macavity
KoC
JVW
Benmage
Yos
ABR
Arm
MoS
Goat
Mort
Set
Sajin
Shadow
Kison
Faraday

Last I checked that list is: 16

So, if you're going to call me retarded, perhaps you should count?

[Sajin]

16...Haha do we have some other kind of scum claiming aes sedai?

Or maybe there really are 3 greens. Or another break in the pattern?

[SpyreX]

Why 3 greens specifically? Did I miss something?

That aside, the above should be a giant klaxon for "Ohh gee maybe color and partner claiming makes sense"

[MrBuddyLee]

Is it at all weird that we have at least three green Ajah?

When Ben claimed and said his partner would claim, I made the incorrect assumption that his partner was green too. Two plus the dead green = 3 green.

[SpyreX]

You can't count. We have 3 dead Aes Sedai and 11 claimed ones, for 14 total. 2*7 like I've been saying all along. Your retarded "black ajah is the 8th color" theory is just that: retarded.

And since I'm retarded and I just feel like being that guy:

The information regarding claims is in the thread. This statement is an objective lie.

[SpyreX]

I'll be real surprised if two of the same color are in a masonry together.

[MrBuddyLee]

That aside, the above should be a giant klaxon for "Ohh gee maybe color and partner claiming makes sense"

You really think the mod's going to set up the game such that a massclaim of Aes Sedai will narrow the possible Black(s) to six people?

[Benmage]

What are you worried about? Didn’t you not state that your death alone is benefit to the town…Do you still feel this way? I mean I’d die before the doctor role…

I'm so tired of you. I can't imagine I'm the first.

...

[MrBuddyLee]

The information regarding claims is in the thread. This statement is an objective lie.

Jesus, quit trying to get Aes Sedai fucked over. It was an honest counting mistake. What's wrong with you people?

[Kinetic]

There was a corruption in the system. This is being corrected at this time. Thread will re-open momentarily.

[Kinetic]

The corruption has been purged from the system. At this time all items from Twilight 1 are now 100% accurate.

I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

[Sajin]

Huh? What does that mean?

[Moratorium]

He sent out PM's with changes to the Detections, it appears.

I'm starting to get worried that there's a real lack of consensus not only about the order of how we claim, but also which particular claimed elements will be helpful. The idea that we can turn the game into a logical puzzle is attractive (I even brought it up on my quicktopic at one point), but I'm concerned.

Instead of trying to put together ordered lists on how to do our claiming, can we come to some sort of agreement on what the

next

thing we should claim is? An assessment on what the most important item to claim would be to allow the puzzle to unfold? It might also help direct discussion towards the actual strategy we will employ to win for town, which may not be as obvious to everyone (like me) as some are proclaiming.

[SpyreX]

Like I've said a thousand times before, claiming role/color ONLY helps the scum, it doesn't help us in ANY way. You have yet to explain how it is beneficial to the town.

If nailing down claims when ohh, the game has all claimed, and parsing out the actions to find discrepancies isn't a town move, well.

There's a reason "I'm a power role" means jack and prompts a fullclaim in normal games.

Seriously, am I the only one who finds it ironic that Kairyuu and SpyreX, two non-Saidar users, would deign to tell us Aes Sedai how best to utilize our claims, when they don't even know the ramifications of revealing the kind of information we have?

Just parse this one out. Just really look at it. "Us Aes Sedai" "our claims" "dire ramifications".

You really think the mod's going to set up the game such that a massclaim of Aes Sedai will narrow the possible Black(s) to six people?

If this happened day 1, we'd have 16/6 with multiple night kills. Considering:

1.) That not all the scum are AS
2.) That there's no chance in hell any of the possible claims in the six are being lynched
3.) Every mislynch is killing a power role.
4.) That we've seen multiple killing roles.

Yea. Yea I do.

Jesus, quit trying to get Aes Sedai fucked over. It was an honest counting mistake. What's wrong with you people?

People? That was me. See, when someone has been all over ABR for lying and not buying the intent clause and then they do just that themselves...

Its cool though. The fullclaims will come out. The puzzle will be laid out.

[MrBuddyLee]

If nailing down claims when ohh, the game has all claimed, and parsing out the actions to find discrepancies isn't a town move, well.

The game hasn't all claimed. We've basically just figured out that 16 people claim to be Aes Sedai and two claim other stuff. That's like figuring out at the start of the game "gee, I get the sense there's a lot of power". That doesn't mean the wisest thing to do is necessarily massclaim...

Claiming detects ("I got BS->Barn" etc.) seems like the next logical step in this process. We find out whether anyone feels the need to lie about detects, and most likely everything synchs up. It's nearly impossible to lie in this phase, but it is possible for scum to use the results of this phase to try and lie about the next phase, most likely where we claim the destinations of role actions.

Claiming partners should probably be done first.. in order from sketchiest person to least sketchy.

[Benmage]

Claiming partners should probably be done first.. in order from sketchiest person to least sketchy.

Agree

[MacavityLock]

I still say targets first, given that some people may/will have targeted people who died that night. Claiming targets first will allow everyone to check their own detects first to see if things fit. Then all detects get claimed so everyone has a chance to check. At least that's the way I see it.

I'm definitely in agreement about partner claiming right away.