Mini 801- Kubrick Mafia (Over)

[ortolan]

Why wouldn't the scum know what VTs are in this game?

[Fishythefish]

Temporarily, at least,

unvote

[ortolan]

People unvoting: what claim would you expect scum to make in this game?

[Fishythefish]

No time to make a detailed post right now, but I will do so soon. For now: clearly Ash is also an extra, and this is the/a VT rolename. Whether scum are likely to know this or not needs a bit of thought.

[ortolan]

Also, if someone gets wagoned to a claim and then claims vanilla townie that is usually never a reason to unvote them

[AshMC1984]

Why wouldn't the scum know what VTs are in this game?

Why would they? Is it usual for scum to be provided a copy of the VT PM?

People unvoting: what claim would you expect scum to make in this game?

Not one as specific and accurate as Infinis. The next person to make this claim - not so credible - the first; yeah I buy it.

Also, if someone gets wagoned to a claim and then claims vanilla townie that is usually never a reason to unvote them

No, not usually, but Infinis said more than that and you know it. Your persistence in this matter looks scummy to me. Gonna do a quick Orto re-read now.

[Empking]

Vote Count 12

Muzzz (3): Lazurusmoth, Pads, Infinis
Infinis (3) Skitzer, Ort, Cateraction, muzzz
Pads (1): Spolium.
Fishy (1): Archon
Not Voting (3): Ash, BC, Fishy

7 to Lynch

[AshMC1984]

Hallmarks of Orto's play:

Hesitant claim Spartacus.
Innuendo and unreasoned accusations.
Chit chat and exhaustive set-up speculation.
Rolefishing while decrying rolefishing.
Vote-hopping.

Conclusion: Would rather Orto lynched than Muzzz, but would rather Muzzz lynched than No Lynch. Orto seemed to almost save Muzzz from almost certain lynch with his late Infinis case - the fact that Orto

didn't

want Muzzz lynched makes me slightly more comfortable with a Muzzz-lynch.

Thoughts? Time for / interest in an Orto-wagon?

Vote: Ortolan

[muzzz]

Vanilla clam shouldn't dissuade us from lynching. I'm OK with a hammer at this point.

WTF, Cat? You've voted me because you thought I didn't know about Spartacus. And now you're asking for a hammer on Infinis because scum probably know the extra PM.

Explain.

[muzzz]

Also

Unvote
@Emp: For the record, I had switched my vote to Infinis in 262.

[ortolan]

Why would they? Is it usual for scum to be provided a copy of the VT PM?

I would expect it yes,

certainly

not thinking the default is to assume otherwise.

Not one as specific and accurate as Infinis. The next person to make this claim - not so credible - the first; yeah I buy it.

Yes, the fact that he was deemed scummy enough to force a claim out of so claimed the vanilla townie role means he is more credible than anyone who claims subsequently (bad logic). Also like how you're preparing to express skepticism of anyone who should so much as dare as claim the VT role after he has.

No, not usually, but Infinis said more than that and you know it. Your persistence in this matter looks scummy to me. Gonna do a quick Orto re-read now.

Bad case, scum alert.

Hesitant claim Spartacus.

So some of you keep telling me.

Innuendo and unreasoned accusations.

Um, nice try buddy. This is itself an unreasoned accusation, no supporting evidence is provided.

Chit chat

What? It is unclear what you feel I've posted constitutes "chit-chat" and it is also unclear how that would be scummy, had you actually given an example, which you didn't.

exhaustive set-up speculation.

AshMC: I don't think the mod would give scum the VT role pm so we should trust someone that claims it.

ortolan: No.

AshMC: STOP SETUP SPECULATING "EXHAUSTIVELY"!!!

Rolefishing while decrying rolefishing.

Where did I rolefish? Also once you cite an action you need to tell me why it's more likely to come from scum than town.

Vote-hopping.

Changing one's vote does not = vote-hopping. It's what you just did, and more recently than I, remember, when you changed from voting muzzz to voting me? Black pots shouldn't call slightly off-white kettles black anyway. Hypocrisy is a huge theme of your attack against me.

[ortolan]

also we should still lynch Infinis, or AshMC because it's pretty much impossible for that attack to come from a town player. It's all unsubstantiated tosh barely disguised with rhetoric.

[ortolan]

oh also Ash conveniently ignored my earlier question:

if we had successfully wagoned scum to a claim, what would you expect them to claim?

The same goes for all you other Infinis-unvoters

[muzzz]

Something townie, of course. What exactly depends on how much they know, I guess. My unvote is based on the reasoning that it's unlikely for the scum to know more about VT's than BC. Do you disagree with that?

[ortolan]

Frankly, yes.

Something townie, of course. What exactly depends on how much they know, I guess.

Do you think they would claim a power role or vanilla?

[Fishythefish]

I'm a tad under the influence right now, but with deadline not so far away I think this post is worth making nevertheless.

From Ash's recent posts, plus his picking up on my "breadcrumb", it is clear that he is an extra VT, or scum pretending to be such. Therefore, if Infinis is scum, the scum are privy to the VT rolename (except in the unlikely instance that Infinis and Ash are both talking crap, AND Ash breadcrumbed the same crap for no apparent reason). That seems like a fairly odd mechanic- surely if you were going to reveal this to the scum you'd just go ahead and put it in the first post.

I'd expect a scum to claim VT, unless they had been given a fake claim. I certainly wouldn't expect them to have someone who explicitly supports their rolename claim.

vote: Pads

[muzzz]

@Orto: too many variables. I could see them claiming a powerrole under any of these circumstances:

- they know enough about a role to make a decent fake-claim
- they know enough about a role to make them want to trade a scumbag for a counter-claim.
- they know a role doesn't exist.

@Fishy: I assume that by "breadcrumb" you mean post 37?

[muzzz]

Also @ Orto: I'm getting the impression that you'd sooner expect a fake-VT claim than a fake-power claim. This kinda implies that you believe the scum would sooner receive details about VT's than powerroles. Am I correct? And if I am, what makes you believe that?

[BloodCovenent]

Vote: Orto

Will give exhaustive details later. Working on my other game at the moment.

[Fishythefish]

37 was indeed the "breadcrumb" Ash thought he had picked up on. I think it is fair to assume that the extra role is what he was referring to in 68. (Ash, confirm this, please?)

[cateraction]

unvote

After having reread my role pm.

[muzzz]

Seriously?

[lazarusmoth]

I was so down with an Infinis lynch when I reread the thread...but his claim totally derails my suspicions. The "extra" information gave me a very good reason to believe his claim.

BC responds to the claim...

I think I buy this. Townie, an

extra

, as in a movie extra. This makes sense to me, since we are playing mafia based on a movie.

And I totally buy it for the same exact reason.

But then a couple of posts bother me...

Vanilla clam shouldn't dissuade us from lynching. I'm OK with a hammer at this point.

This isn't a general claim but with a word that I know is specifically townie. Why wouldn't cateraction immediately know that???

He takes it back once the word "extra" has been outed:

unvote

After having reread my role pm.

...but is this a case of scum backtracking or a townie lapse. My vote's on the former.

Why wouldn't the scum know what VTs are in this game?

People unvoting: what claim would you expect scum to make in this game?

Scum can claim vanilla townie. That is not the case here. Infinis has speciffically claimed "extra", a word that has been breadcrumbed all throughout by people I recognize to be townie. And these are the people Ort still pushes a lynch for:

also we should still lynch Infinis, or AshMC because it's pretty much impossible for that attack to come from a town player. It's all unsubstantiated tosh barely disguised with rhetoric.

I picked up on Ash's crumbs. And Infinis' claim definitely clears him. Why isn't this recognized by Ort???

Bottomline: cateraction and ortolan are scum. I'll

unvote, vote: ort

but would be very happy with either lynch.

Deadline time people!

[BloodCovenent]

I've played other games with Cater, and he would lynch anyone that claims vanilla, i see him overlooking that specific detail. And as he read his PM, he genuinely realized that he was mistaken.

anyways, can we get a vote count please?

[lazarusmoth]

Vote count and a deadline update?