Open 150 - Crossfire - Game mod abandoned

[Darkstrike_11]

Ad for the random vote stage, yeah its there (

shock

, thanks for pointing it out) and so you say that to move it on I should post something. Seeing as the RVS is only usually moved out of when someone posts something scummy, you would assume that the best play in the RVS is to make a scummy post. Nice. Also I had a go at asking some questions to see if I could have a go at scumhunting, but everyone then made fun of them and all started voting for me. Whenever I post people suspect me, regardless of what I say. And people wonder why I don’t post that often.

I take this as "I'd post more but I don't want to look scummy."

I agree with this logic

Then you take it wrong. You have to admit that whenever I do post, people attack it regardless. It’s in fact a case of “I’d post more but I’m tired of being falsely accused.”

;]As for hoping for a scum role being a scumtell, would “damn I was hoping for a town role but unfortunately im a member of x group” be less of one?

That whole statement is scummy.

Again, a statement with no backing up. I don’t mind it, but it means I can’t refute your claim. What do you find scummy about it? I can tell you that I meant it in a genuine attempt to respond to the attack made that hoping for a scum role is a scumtell. Please try and do more than just paint me as scum then leave.

ok, had time to properly read over the Ash/darkstrike exchange.

Conclusion:

Ash=awesome

I wasn’t meaning to “claim” by it at all.

You implied you were town. Fairly directly.

Posting more would actually make you seem a lot less scummy when you do post. I don't like how you keep trying to excuse your lurking.

I think right now I would be good with the following lynches: Kise/Darkstrike and to a much lesser extent Fernando (who I would rather is replaced).

Of course I implied town. That wasn’t what I was saying in that quote. I was saying it wasn’t a formal claim. That was the point I was trying to make.

what are everyone's favourite alignments? I should think I would prefer a mafia role, as it would be fun to manipulate the unknowing townies.

Did

anyone else

get excited at being told that

they were a policeman

as their role before finding out that its actually a vanilla town role?

This is the biggest thing going against you, DS. How can you say it's not a claim when it's pretty clear that you wanted to give the impression you're a policeman?

You seem to be oddly confused. I wasn’t claiming to be a policeman. Nor was I giving the impression of being one. I was just being light hearted about the name of the townie role in this game. Wake up.

unvote
vote AshMC1984

OMGUS is scummy.

Kmd, Zazier- what are you thoughts?

Pretty obvious that the scum are Darkstrike, Kise, Zach, and dvd.

I admit fair and square, it was an OMGUS vote. I wanted Ash to explain his reasoning, so put a vote on. Then I withdrew it once he explained. And I don’t see OMGUS as being hugely scummy.

As for it being “obvious” I don’t understand why you all are so suspicious of me. I’m more active now, excpet now whenever I post people jump upon it. Maybe once you think of someone as scummy you see all their posts as scummy, I don’t know. In truth I’m finding this the most hostile and the least fun game of mafia I have played yet in my short MS career.

[VP Baltar]

Of course I implied town. That wasn’t what I was saying in that quote. I was saying it wasn’t a formal claim. That was the point I was trying to make.

Well, there are essentially only two roles in this game, so if you are implying town it's as good as formally claiming.

As for it being “obvious” I don’t understand why you all are so suspicious of me. I’m more active now, excpet now whenever I post people jump upon it. Maybe once you think of someone as scummy you see all their posts as scummy, I don’t know. In truth I’m finding this the most hostile and the least fun game of mafia I have played yet in my short MS career.

I'm going to give you a piece of advice because I don't want you to feel like people are picking on you for nothing or mafia is not fun: there are times during these games when you are going to get attacked and the best thing you can do is just point out logical inconsistencies in the attacks rather than complian about how everyone is picking on you for nothing.

Players on this site can be aggressive (myself included), and the best thing you can do is just answer questions and continue to scumhunt. If it helps you, try and look at your actions from someone else's perspective who doesn't know your alignment and see if you can see why they might think you are scummy. Then explain why that is not true.

[Zachrulez]

;]As for hoping for a scum role being a scumtell, would “damn I was hoping for a town role but unfortunately im a member of x group” be less of one?

That whole statement is scummy.

Again, a statement with no backing up. I don’t mind it, but it means I can’t refute your claim. What do you find scummy about it? I can tell you that I meant it in a genuine attempt to respond to the attack made that hoping for a scum role is a scumtell. Please try and do more than just paint me as scum then leave.

You're trying to justify an earlier statement by putting a worse one out there to compare to, in order to make your original statement not sound as bad.

Premise here is that you didn't say the worse sounding thing, so what you actually said isn't as bad.

Not a big fan of that kind of defense.

Anyway, you don't seem to be actively lurking anymore, so that's good.

[Zachrulez]

Zach:
-Started by asking a few questions, but didn't take any hard stances.

So?

-Took the easy Darkstrike vote and blew it up as his first real stance

Well for one you seem to think darkstrike is scum. Also maybe you wanna qualify what an easy vote is, cause in my mind voting someone is as simple as bolding the words vote: so and so.

-Most of his attacks are small jabs

So?

-Put Kise at L-2 for weak reasons without even mentioning him previously

Lies. I didn't put Kise at lynch -2, and I have mentioned him previously. As for the strength of my reasoning for voting for him, that's your opinion.

-More concerned with lurker hunting than scum hunting

What's your stance on lurking? I see half the people in this game not really bothering to post or participate in this game, and it's actually making it quite difficult for me to get into this game myself. I suppose I should check who is due for a prod.

Note:

If you're using your 2nd point to argue that I'm scummy you can't use the 1st, because by definition, you're using a hard stance taken by me to make a case, and it outright invalidates your first point.

More later.

[lazarusmoth]

I just fixed my net connection. Will be posting soon.

[VP Baltar]

mod, prod yourself and a number of other people while you're at it

Looking forward to your post lazarus.

[Kise]

You know what...?

Unvote; Vote: KMD

For one thing, he's led to my entrapment . But more importantly, he votes Huntress and gives no reason, then hops on Fernando's upstart-wagon after VP makes a case on him, then hops on my wagon after Furry & VP find a case on me (which was a very late discovery of whatever tell I committed). The closest he's come to making a case against Huntress was asking her to elaborate on why dvdkid was her 'best bet', but even then, he gave no reason why he voted for her.

I'll give a

non-joke vote

though for the sake of moving things along.

Unvote, Vote Huntress

We never did get those reasons, Kevey.

Admit it.. you want to get rid of me so I have one less game to build up my PPD

[Kise]

And before anyone pardons him for SH'ing to some lesser degree.....

don't forget that even the scum have to scumhunt in this game.

[Kmd4390]

Then you take it wrong. You have to admit that whenever I do post, people attack it regardless. It’s in fact a case of “I’d post more but I’m tired of being falsely accused.”

Then don't make scummy posts.

Again, a statement with no backing up. I don’t mind it, but it means I can’t refute your claim. What do you find scummy about it? I can tell you that I meant it in a genuine attempt to respond to the attack made that hoping for a scum role is a scumtell. Please try and do more than just paint me as scum then leave.

See, this is part of my issue with Zach. He is more than willing to make small jabs, but he doesn't back them or push the issue further.

Zach:
-Started by asking a few questions, but didn't take any hard stances.

So?

-Took the easy Darkstrike vote and blew it up as his first real stance

Well for one you seem to think darkstrike is scum. Also maybe you wanna qualify what an easy vote is, cause in my mind voting someone is as simple as bolding the words vote: so and so.

-Most of his attacks are small jabs

So?

-Put Kise at L-2 for weak reasons without even mentioning him previously

Lies. I didn't put Kise at lynch -2, and I have mentioned him previously. As for the strength of my reasoning for voting for him, that's your opinion.

-More concerned with lurker hunting than scum hunting

What's your stance on lurking? I see half the people in this game not really bothering to post or participate in this game, and it's actually making it quite difficult for me to get into this game myself. I suppose I should check who is due for a prod.

Note:

If you're using your 2nd point to argue that I'm scummy you can't use the 1st, because by definition, you're using a hard stance taken by me to make a case, and it outright invalidates your first point.

More later.

When you don't take a hard stance, you position yourself to just agree with whatever easy wagon comes along, which you seem to be doing.

Yes, I think darkstrike is scum. How does that make you any more likely town?

You didn't attack Kise very hard until the wagon. You didn't attack anyone hard, actually. Slight mentions don't mean "ok, these are the people who need to be lynched". They shouldn't even mean "You are scummy, but we'll see what happens". They usually mean "I am scum trying to say that I was already suspicious of you if a wagon comes up"

Lurkers should post more or be replaced. If lurking starts to look intentional and strategical, then I'll look at a lurker as scummy. Right now, all I see is lack of time or no interest.

What I'm looking for is an original position that you take and support strongly. Jumping on a wagon and saying "Yep! What he said! LYNCHLYNCH LYNCH" isn't taking a hard stance. Well, I guess it technically is, but it's not original.

You know what...?

Unvote; Vote: KMD

Interesting. k, let's see what we've got.

For one thing, he's led to my entrapment .

Pfffffftttt. Keep hiding behind that.

But more importantly, he votes Huntress and gives no reason, then hops on Fernando's upstart-wagon after VP makes a case on him,

It was just after the RVS. I was trying to get something going, so I jumped on what I saw. The Huntress thing was weak, but it was there. Then the bandwagon on a decently scummy player was there, so I tried that. People just seemed so reluctant to get into this game.

then hops on my wagon after Furry & VP find a case on me (which was a very late discovery of whatever tell I committed).

You are legitimately scummy.

The closest he's come to making a case against Huntress was asking her to elaborate on why dvdkid was her 'best bet', but even then, he gave no reason why he voted for her.

I'm pretty sure that I already said that implying something to be in someone's own best interest over the town's is a scumtell. But I honestly don't suspect Huntress that much anymore, so I don't have any more than that to elaborate on.

I'll give a

non-joke vote

though for the sake of moving things along.

Unvote, Vote Huntress

We never did get those reasons, Kevey.

First of all, don't

EVER

call me that again. Second, yeah, we did.

Admit it.. you want to get rid of me so I have one less game to build up my PPD

You figured me out.

---------------------

I still stand by my statement that scum have to scumhunt.

[Khamisa]

unvote
vote AshMC1984

Most definitely OMGUS. Very blatant OMGUS.

Unvote

I know there's definitely more out there, but I need to look. I especially need to decipher the Kise case.

[VP Baltar]

you need to post or die Khamisa. plain and simple. Saying you need to read up is not acceptable.

I still stand by my statement that scum have to scumhunt.

I don't agree. I think it is very likely there is more than one scum either sheeping along or completely lurking in this game.

While I think Kise is more scummy, you certainly haven't been making a huge commitment to this game, Kmd. Also, if you talk to Zazie at all, will you tell her to check this game and post please.

[Kise]

What I'm looking for is an original position that you take and support strongly. Jumping on a wagon and saying "Yep! What he said! LYNCHLYNCH LYNCH" isn't taking a hard stance. Well, I guess it technically is, but it's not original.

Neither you or VP jumped on me until Furry pointed out my voting pattern. I'm pretty sure you are also guilty of the "yep what he said" tell.

The Huntress thing was weak, but it was there.

So I catch shit for making weak FoS's, but you make a weak vote and everything is all sunshine & lollipops? Nuh uh. Your 'weak' vote is much stronger than my 'weak', simply because I did not use my power to get someone eliminated from the game. I think your vote should have been more serious.. and it's an insult when you say it was based off of weak judgment. I know you're a better player than that (as town***).

You are legitimately scummy.

So sure, are we..? Well, I'm writing it in my "e-Will" in the case of my mislynch today that you be lynched D2. I demand it, in fact... If I can't build my PPD up in Open 150, then neither should you, Sorcerer. (Yes, even at a serious time like this, I still choose to use a non-serious tone. Then again, you could be Shadow Dragon for all I know.)

Listen, gang, even if you (the rest of the town) still want to lynch me at the end of the day, the best thing to do right now is at least take discussion off me for a while so I can do my part in scumhunting. If the topic is limited to whether I'm scummy or not based on 1 action I did, then that'll serve as a good enough distraction from finding other suspicious players. I'm not that scared of being lynched, but once I flip town, I at least want you guys to look back at how I interacted with everyone so you can assess the brainless bandwagoners/mafia and the tunnelers and make cases on them going into D3, because KMD must be lynched D2 if I die first. Agreed?

Also:

(113) laz

is

scummy for not helping the thread. Not putting out suspicions and contributing is scummy.

This is why I found Laz suspicious at the time, on the contrary to whoever (VP?) said I found him suspicious for lurking, which wasn't the case.

[Kise]

Neither you or VP jumped on me until Furry pointed out my voting pattern. I'm pretty sure you are also guilty of the "yep what he said" tell.

For personal knowledge, was it my voting pattern or the misconception about what I said in regards to Laz? There IS a difference between me finding him suspicious and me finding him to be scum (hence the delayed-vote).

[Furry]

Lazarus isn't really scummy, he just isn't helping the thread. Ash's words toward dvdkid are about as strange as what Fernando had to say.

Do I haft'a make my vote tonight? o_o

Vote: Lazarus

.......

Lazarus isn't really scummy, he just isn't helping the thread.

Vote: Lazarus

........

Lazarus isn't really scummy

Vote: Lazarus

[Furry]

Hah, forgot to add my own text.

Thats what is bugging me. You say he was your top suspect and all that jazz over a couple others, but was your top suspect really "not really scummy"?

[VP Baltar]

/\ what she said

[Kmd4390]

I still stand by my statement that scum have to scumhunt.

I don't agree. I think it is very likely there is more than one scum either sheeping along or completely lurking in this game.

You are missing my point. I'm not saying the scum have to be among players who are actively posting and looking for scum. I'm saying that scumhunting will help scum to win the game. They need to try to find each other. Basically, scumhunting is less of a towntell here than it is anywhere else because someone can genuinely scumhunt and still be scum themselves.

While I think Kise is more scummy, you certainly haven't been making a huge commitment to this game, Kmd. Also, if you talk to Zazie at all, will you tell her to check this game and post please.

How haven't I committed to this game? I commit to every game I join. I've been around more than anyone except maybe you and Kise.

Zazie has other games to keep up with. I'm not sure what her plans are for this game and won't ask due to out of thread communication rules, but I'm sure she'll be around.

Neither you or VP jumped on me until Furry pointed out my voting pattern. I'm pretty sure you are also guilty of the "yep what he said" tell.

I'm voting you because you wouldn't vote Laz until I prompted you to vote a suspect, you were looking for me to direct your vote, you voted Fernando which was a funny joke, but hid behind that far too long, and you don't seem to be matching the meta I have on you which admittedly doesn't include any finished games but the whole suspect everyone but follow along thing just isn't you.

And yeah, I've agreed with some of other people's suspicions, but the difference is that I've also made original points and have original suspicions.

So I catch shit for making weak FoS's, but you make a weak vote and everything is all sunshine & lollipops? Nuh uh. Your 'weak' vote is much stronger than my 'weak', simply because I did not use my power to get someone eliminated from the game. I think your vote should have been more serious.. and it's an insult when you say it was based off of weak judgment. I know you're a better player than that (as town***).

I wasn't pushing Huntress for a lynch. I was pushing Huntress as the first scummy player I saw early in the game.

And if you think I'm better as town than I am as scum, you haven't seen enough of my games. I'm only 21-32 as town and 14-7 as scum. So I've won 40% of my town games and 67% of my scum games.

So sure, are we..? Well, I'm writing it in my "e-Will" in the case of my mislynch today that you be lynched D2. I demand it, in fact... If I can't build my PPD up in Open 150, then neither should you, Sorcerer. (Yes, even at a serious time like this, I still choose to use a non-serious tone. Then again, you could be Shadow Dragon for all I know.)

So:
-you want to set up chain lynches
-you feel the need to specify that you would be a mislynch
-you specify which scum group you think I am when no one has flipped yet
-you feel the need to say "for all you know", I could be the other group

Did I miss anything?

If you think I'm scum, just tell your buddy to kill me tonight. Maybe that's what you are doing now that I think about it. XD

[Kise]

OK, here's why this case against me is booty juice.

1) I Fo

S

'd Lazarus... meaning I

suspected

him... meaning I did not vote for him at the time because I did

not peg him as scumbag just yet

.

2) KMD pestered me about voting for my top

suspect

... after about 3 back-and-forth posts, I listened and took his "advice" by voting for Laz... a top

suspect

of mine.

3) Laz did not make any scumslips, so I did not label him scum. He only

behaved

suspiciously

.

4) Someone can

act

suspicious, as Laz did. That does not automatically mean they are scummy. They could be scum, but if they only

make me feel uneasy

about them, then I

only suspect

them. If they

say something

that would

benefit the mafia's objective

, than that is classified as

being scummy

.

5) I repeatedly let it be known to KMD that I did not feel ready to vote for Laz. He wouldn't shut up about how all the cool townie kids vote to get their point across, so I then and only then did I vote.

Were 6 other of you going to vote for Laz and get him lynched? It's not like I hopped on a wagon; I was the 1st to vote for Laz, so he was not in any danger off my little vote. The bottom line is THIS IS ALL KEVEY'S FAULT. He must die for not manning-up to his hand in all of this, because he does not want to prevent a mislynch. THAT would classify as being scummy because he wants to help the mafia accomplish their objective. Therefore, I am serious with my vote and demand for Kevey-wevey's lynch.

[Kaiveran]

Khamisa has posted in thread.
lazarusmoth's prod expires tomorrow at 11:20 AM
ZazieR's prod is somehow not in my send box, so I sent her a new one.

Again, all times are GMT -6.

[Kmd4390]

1) How do you suspect someone without thinking they are scum?

2) This is fair, but why did you need me to direct your vote? Ok, this is more the case with Fernando than Laz, but the point stands.

3) Again, how does someone "behave suspiciously" without commiting scumtells?

4) Actually, "acting suspicious" is the same as being scummy. There have to be reasons why Laz was suspicious. Maybe he isn't scum, but you still saw him as scummy and there are reasons why.

5) Or you could have explained why you thought I was wrong and voting is this big scary thing that no townie should ever do.

Oh, I'll gladly "man up" and take some credit if you are lynched. I never said anything to imply otherwise.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and Kise?

DayKill: Kise

Don't call me by pet names. Only the ladies can do that. And very rarely is even that ok.

[Kise]

1) Just like in real life, the cops do not send suspects to jail. They only send criminals to jail. Thus, you can suspect someone, but that does not mean they are guilty most-definitely.

2) I didn't need you to. But here's a question for you: Why did you feel the need to pester me to vote for Laz, when a FoS sufficed just fine? You vote to lynch someone. You FoS to let it be known that something doesn't smell right about the way a particular player is acting.

3) Laz is suspicious for hiding behind opinions and not voicing his own. That doesn't mean he's obv-scum. Again, that is why he initially only earned my finger rather than my vote.

4) Why are you saying I found Laz scummy? Didn't Furry or VP quote me where I said I did NOT find him scummy, and instead only suspicious? And in this sentence right here, you say that Laz acts scummy but maybe isn't scum... So being scummy =/= scum, eh? Then why not consider that with my case? I know why: Because you want to mislynch me... Keveykeveykevey

5) We went back-and-forth. You wouldn't accept what I was telling you, so I gave in to your wish and made a vote for my top suspect.

[Kmd4390]

1) No, but if you suspect them, you at least

think

they are scum. For example, I suspect you, Zach, darkstrike, and dvd. Maybe I'm wrong about all four, but those are still my suspects and I still think those players are scum.

2) I "pestered" you to vote because I feel a vote solidifies a stance much more than an FoS does.

3) I still don't understand why someone

has

to be obvscum to get a vote.

4) Maybe because you say you suspected him, you FoS'd him, and when I said you should vote your top suspect, you voted him. Sounds like you found him scummy.

What do you think is the difference between suspicious and scummy? I don't see one.

No, townies are scummy sometimes too. 90% of players who are lynched are scummy regardless of alignment.

Seriously, stop with that. I'm not joking, I'm actually starting to get pissed off.

5) So you play to please me instead of to push what you think is right? See, that's scummy even if you are town.

[VP Baltar]

I'm saying that scumhunting will help scum to win the game. They need to try to find each other. Basically, scumhunting is less of a towntell here than it is anywhere else because someone can genuinely scumhunt and still be scum themselves.

Ok, I understand you better know. I would agree with that.

How haven't I committed to this game? I commit to every game I join. I've been around more than anyone except maybe you and Kise.

Posting and finding original content are not the same thing. I agree that you have been here, but you seem a bit disinterested at points. I know this game is lacking people being active overall, but I would expect you to be one of the persons really spurring people on to contribute. It's minor and mostly gut based because I haven't read you in iso, but I think we probably have high expectations of each other.

Ok, about the Zazie thing. I just know she's active in other games and hasn't contributed anything to this one. Apparently she hasn't really been prodded though either...so that may account for that.

lazarusmoth's prod expires tomorrow at 11:20 AM

he just posted recently saying he didn't have internet and is back. I don't think the prod is a problem right now. ALSO, please post a vote count.


@Kise, you seriously need to stop acting like a wanker. Kmd said stop calling him that and you are just antagonizing him. The mod either needs to do one of the following: warn/eject/modkill you. There is no reason to act like that.

moving on

Why did you feel the need to pester me to vote for Laz

Did kmd specifically tell you to vote for Laz?

[lazarusmoth]

unvote, vote: kise

Kise has been lighting up my scum radar since early on with posts that are confusing (to say the least). He starts off by making accusations that were too outrageous to believe and saying they were "serious" - prompting people to waste time on useless debate trying to figure it out. Not helpful at all.

Then he starts slinging fos'es like crazy. dvdkid, zach, dstrike, ash, lazarus...he doesn't actually FOS fern. He evens says:

So far, I don't think Fern will earn my vote, although he seemed to be making a trivial case against Huntress.

AND:

I see you want me to bandwagon Fern, but I got 3 other peeps I want lynched.

AND:

In fact, if you're trying to get me to go against my own personal decision and vote for someone (Fern) I have not FoS'd, then

you are

starting to reek of George Bush-scumminess.

Ok, so with all of the FOS'es and with him specifically stating that he has not FOS'd Fern, HE VOTES FOR FERN BECAUSE KMD GAVE HIM A MILLION BUCKS? I could prolly just say that Kise is one crazy player, but I think he saw that the Fern BW was a serious one - after his oh-so-intimate conversation with KMD. That made him throw out all of his dangling hooks and join the BW. He genuinely thought that since all the cool kids were doing, he could pass it off. But his posts have come back to haunt him.