Newbie 799 - Katana Village (Game Over!)

[GreenDude]

@nureins: I have been very confused. I myself don't know what I was doing. I was tunnelvisioning on wickedswami for a while unintentionally because no one else was participating a lot. I didn't set a trap really. I just, put that in because I felt it was neat (which is a silly reason). What do you mean think twice? Do you mean I shouldn't type everything that comes to mind?? This game is going very strangly. Probably because of me *turns red*.

I find that Mevorra and Belili are teaming up on me. They jumped on me because of the way I posted things and how I said controversal things. This could be either townie or scum. But notice that they didn't participate much UNTIL suddenly they are jumping on me. They could be scum, in which case other townies you vote on me will look like scum because it seems like they're bandwagoning. And so the first lynch would be townie, the second would be townie, and one kill in between, there would be 6 people left, 4 townie and 2 mafia, and the town is way at a disadvantage because ALL the town must vote on a mafia, 1/3 chance, or else they LOSE.

@mevorra: Are you suspicious of Belili?

@belili: Are you suspicious of mevorra??

---

VOTE COUNT

(3) GreenDude - SilverFang, Mevorra, Belili

(1) SilverFang - GreenDude
(1) Belili - edmund.angles
(1) NO LYNCH - wickedswami

Not Voting: pikapizza, WeepingWind, nureins


With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline: July 3, 2009 12:01 pm PST

[GreenDude]

This is not going well for me. I've made a lot of mistakes.

Mevorra and Belili are apparently suspcious of me (they voted me).


Now if they were townies they would interpret my post as me admitting that I'm scum. Mistakes showing i'm scum. But if they're mafia, they know I'm town, so they will interpret as I made myself LOOK like scum when i'm not.

Either mevorra and belili are scum, or they didn't notice that post.



Even though Silverfang voted for me, I didn't include him because he was inactive.





Another unusual thing, mevorra and belili or using mostly the same evidence in there cases against me, i.e. irrationality

[Mevorra]

Greendude:
I did notice the post, and I accepted it for what it was.
To be honest, my suspicions of GD have been based on a theory that has no foundation. I've had a feeling in my guts about you, but quite frankly, it's disappeared. I have other suspicions at the moment, not directed towards you, but I want to read through the game once more before I "publish" my thoughts.

Greendude is right when he says our cases against him are based on irrationality, and I feel it's a stupid idea to get GD lynched early because of a hunch, as he is without doubt the most talkative participant.

Therefore:

Unvote

[Mevorra]

I have other suspicions at the moment, not directed towards you, but I want to read through the game once more before I "publish" my thoughts.

I've read through the game again, and I think my suspicions might be of some importance:

nureins. You've posted plenty of large and analysing posts of thoughtful comments, but we have yet to hear what you actually think!
So far, you've only stated the obvious and summarised.
I'm not saying this is scum behaviour, but it would be easier for us, I think, to know where we have you, if you post some thoughts and suspicions instead of reviews of the game so far.

[Mevorra]

Ah, and by the way, I finally got my avatar up and running. I know that I have a lot of an easier time to recognize posters when there's an image to attach to them, and I'm sorry for not having one earlier.
I've tried to add it for some time now, but imageshack has been unreachable, and I haven't been able to easily resize my image. Now it's done, and you can say hello to my avatar:
The gateway to the realm of Sheogorath! ;D

[edmund.angles]

@Mevorra: Nice to finally meet you face to, ehh faces
@pikapizza: Welcome to the game.

[Belili]

@ Green: Relatively speaking, no. But there's little to go on for anyone at this point.

I really don't know anymore. I'm still leaning green but we have plenty of time and I probably shouldn't rush any suspicion. Also, let's give pikapizza a chance to chime in and incriminate himself.

unvote

[WeepingWind]

Is there any reason for the sudden rush to unvote? Have you decided that GreenDude is townie, or something else?

[Belili]

Did you even read my post? I think he's mafia... I also think we have a couple weeks to keep posting AND one player who hasn't posted once who should have the opportunity.

[GreenDude]

Did you unvote because I said you could be scum?? Because mevorra said he unvoted because he was only going on irrationality. But Belili didn't give any reason, did he unvote because mevorra unvoted??

[GreenDude]

It'd be ironic if we had to replace the replacement with the replaced person

[wickedswami]

I know this doesn't help my cause if he is mafia and is lynched, but from what I remember "laying low" is a common newb-mafia trait. Greendude hasn't been quiet at all. Also he was the first to /confirm - indicating an eagerness to play rather than to kill. Posting a lot could just be his style. That would inevitably lead to statements that could be used against him - mafia or not.

vote: greendude

You're giving a big reason why green wouldn't be mafia, and then you vote him, following mevora.
Also, your entire post (92) doesn't seem to make much sense. You're looking at it way too simplistic

That is basically a "too town to be town" WIFOM argument.

what's WIFOM?

I disagree - I think scumpairs are a useful way to think about this. When we lynch someone this round - we're statistically unlikely to nab a scum. But if we proceed thinking ahead, we can at least set up two educated picks for the next two rounds.

(this was in response to nureins, saying thinking in scumpairs is too farfetched)

Eventhough I started with a nullvote, I have already made clear that I had the intention to vote today, and it also seems to be proven to be the best way to go theoretically.
Yet what I read from you in this post is that we shouldn't vote for anyone on day one.
What if we find out a "scum pair" and only kill one of them on day two, only to find out he's townie?
The fact of the matter is, as I have come to realise, that the town doesn't become weaker if we loose a townie, so it's worth the risk, because if we catch scum, we're already halfway there and as others have said, then would be a good time to look back in the posts and figure out who was pairing up.

But on the other hand, I have to be honest, I've had troubles about lyching someone on day one as well, and i'm still not 100% convinced that it's a good thing, but I am for 90% and all the more experienced players seem to say so, so I think we should follow their lead.

This is not going well for me. I've made a lot of mistakes.

Indeed you have, but I believe that's all they were, rookie mistakes and I do not consider you scum.

@ Green: Relatively speaking, no. But there's little to go on for anyone at this point.

I really don't know anymore. I'm still leaning green but we have plenty of time and I probably shouldn't rush any suspicion. Also, let's give pikapizza a chance to chime in and incriminate himself. Smile

unvote

again, only a few posts after mevora, you follow his lead

combining all of the stuff from belili I can see only 2 possible conclusions:

1) you can't form your own opinion, and simply follow those of others, because you find it too much work to actually read through everything and analyse it yourself
2) you are mafia, and hiding behind other people.

Either way, you're not a very good asset to the town, so i'll have to agree with edmund and

vote: belili

(after typing all this I also hear you say you think he's scum, eventhough you unvoted him, which sounds highly unreasonable to me)

[nureins]

nureins. You've posted plenty of large and analysing posts of thoughtful comments, but we have yet to hear what you actually think!
So far, you've only stated the obvious and summarised.

Really? why have you then waited for my "obvious summary" on Green to unvote?
Why didnt you unvoted before as it was obvious that your case on him was weak?
I find surprising that my opinion in Green is "obvious", when I am disagreeing with the biggest and heaviest wagon up to now. Please explain all that.

Relatively speaking, no. But there's little to go on for anyone at this point.

The same for you. Please answer how is that you were pushing so much the lynch of Green and you changed your position so much. Tell us which things you have considered to soften so quickly and dramatically your pressure on him. And if your answer is going to be something like this:

Did you even read my post? I think he's mafia... I also think we have a couple weeks to keep posting AND one player who hasn't posted once who should have the opportunity.

Id like to know:

a) how is compatible that you think he's mafia yet and your sentence on how little there is to continue your push on Green.

b) Why do you suddenly decide to consider that the replacement of silver deserves your unvote (and you didnt in posts 117 and 118 when you already knew that silver was replaced)

c) why do you suddenly decide to consider that those people who have not participated (pizza) deserve your unvote while there is one player that has not participated in the game (labmafia) and you didnt consider that for unvoting and putting pressure on him.

what's WIFOM?

Wine In Front Of Me. It refers to the situation where you start wondering, did he put the poison in my cup? did he put the poison in his cup awaiting for me to change it? did he...

etc, creating confusion. Basically, if you have a signal that someone is doing something most likely done by town, read it like that and stop creating confusion unless you have good arguments that show why that person could be doing such a thing as scum.

you are mafia, and hiding behind other people....

so I think we should follow their lead...

so i'll have to agree with edmund and...

Anything to say about the compatibility of these 3 sentences? I found them a bit curious

I'm not saying this is scum behaviour, but it would be easier for us, I think, to know where we have you, if you post some thoughts and suspicions instead of reviews of the game so far.

I was pretty clear that I would do after analyzing Green (and the wagon on him). Now I am re-reading, as I think we have material enough as to start pushing one or two people...

[GreenDude]

Hmm, I think I agree with wickedswami. Belili has been hiding behind mevorra a bit. But i haven't read through it recently though. I think I'm going to read through the entire game again with the idea of belili being scum.

@wickedswami: If you're saying that belili is scum and was hiding behind mevorra. Then I assume that mevorra is NOT scum. So then who do you thing is the other scum??

[nureins]

Hmm, I think I agree with wickedswami. Belili has been hiding behind mevorra a bit. But i haven't read through it recently though. I think I'm going to read through the entire game again with the idea of belili being scum.

Try to read thinking he is NOT scum and then come with comments...

[GreenDude]

I'll do both!:D

lol we posted our other posts at the exact same time

[GreenDude]

and for now,

unvote

I don't want to vote for anyone yet, because I still haven't had time to read through the game.

[Tenchi]

It'd be ironic if we had to replace the replacement with the replaced person

I would explode. Then I would implode upon that explosion then explode again.

[pikapizza]

hello !!!!!

reporting in! sorry for being inactive, i was asleep, timezone differences.

will post up what i think of the game soon !!

[wickedswami]

first of all, welcome pika, but please be a bit more contributive then just saying "hey, I wasn't here". That's kinda the reason we kicked lab out.

wicked wrote:
you are mafia, and hiding behind other people....

so I think we should follow their lead...

so i'll have to agree with edmund and...


Anything to say about the compatibility of these 3 sentences? I found them a bit curious

You're correct, it does sound a bit curious. But there's a difference with coming to the same conclusion as someone else and just hiding behind him, following his move. The latter is what Belili did with mevorra, as I have tried to make clear in the huge post you just quoted out of :p .
After reading through 6 pages of posts (yes I red every single one of them) I just happened to come to the same conclusion as edmund.
Belili just said "oh I think so to" and voted for GD

And about the second line you quoted:

so I think we should follow their lead...

That again, is a different situation.
It is considered "noob" to vote null on day one, and people who have played this game a lot more then me all seem to agree on that fact. Therefore I am willing to change my opinion about the null voting, and voting anyway.
This has nothing to do with people from the game.

You're pulling my sentences out of context and I hope you're not doing it on purpose.

[wickedswami]

oh some more stuff:

nureins: thx for the WIFOM explanation, I never heard of it.


GD: do as nureins said. You have already proven to be very tunnelvisioned once you lock on to someone (me :s ) so I wouldn't want belili voted out just for that reason. Make sure you feel the same way before you vote him.
(eventhough I think he's mafia, I'm just human and could very well be wrong)

anyway, I'm waiting for belili to respond now.

[nureins]

Therefore I am willing to change my opinion about the null voting, and voting anyway.
This has nothing to do with people from the game.
You're pulling my sentences out of context and I hope you're not doing it on purpose.

You are probably correct in saying that you are just changing your opinion, and listening to experienced people.

I also think that you have justified your vote-attack on your own, and not merely following Edmund.

I was not pulling your sentences out of context. I just found them curious. I did no harsh attack, and I didnt plan to do it based on such minor thing. I was probably just checking your reaction to that point, which seemed to be the "key" of your attack.

Later in the day I will analyze the rest of players and, most likely, cast a vote.

[edmund.angles]

Happy scumday, nureins !

[GreenDude]

I don't know what to think anymore. A lot of people could be scum.

[Belili]

I know this doesn't help my cause if he is mafia and is lynched, but from what I remember "laying low" is a common newb-mafia trait. Greendude hasn't been quiet at all. Also he was the first to /confirm - indicating an eagerness to play rather than to kill. Posting a lot could just be his style. That would inevitably lead to statements that could be used against him - mafia or not.

vote: greendude

You're giving a big reason why green wouldn't be mafia, and then you vote him, following mevora.
Also, your entire post (92) doesn't seem to make much sense. You're looking at it way too simplistic[/quote]

Way too simplistic is hyperbole. But w/e.

Yes I'm giving reasons why green wouldn't be mafia. If you would have actually read my posts and the following response to this exact critique, you would understand that I was giving the pros and cons but felt the pros outweighed the cons.

I disagree - I think scumpairs are a useful way to think about this. When we lynch someone this round - we're statistically unlikely to nab a scum. But if we proceed thinking ahead, we can at least set up two educated picks for the next two rounds.

(this was in response to nureins, saying thinking in scumpairs is too farfetched)

Eventhough I started with a nullvote, I have already made clear that I had the intention to vote today, and it also seems to be proven to be the best way to go theoretically.
Yet what I read from you in this post is that we shouldn't vote for anyone on day one.
What if we find out a "scum pair" and only kill one of them on day two, only to find out he's townie?
The fact of the matter is, as I have come to realise, that the town doesn't become weaker if we loose a townie, so it's worth the risk, because if we catch scum, we're already halfway there and as others have said, then would be a good time to look back in the posts and figure out who was pairing up.

LOL. Again, don't accuse me of not reading enough posts and then screw up and not read enough posts yourself. I never said let's not vote on day one. In fact I said your no-lynch vote was a stupid idea.

This is not going well for me. I've made a lot of mistakes.

Indeed you have, but I believe that's all they were, rookie mistakes and I do not consider you scum.

OIC green's mistakes are "rookie" yet mine are indictive of what you later describe as not-helpful to the town or scummy? Why the inconsistency?

@ Green: Relatively speaking, no. But there's little to go on for anyone at this point.

I really don't know anymore. I'm still leaning green but we have plenty of time and I probably shouldn't rush any suspicion. Also, let's give pikapizza a chance to chime in and incriminate himself. Smile

unvote

again, only a few posts after mevora, you follow his lead

I wasn't trying to follow anyone's lead. If I'm being too simplistic with my scumpair theory, isn't your "following his lead" a little simplistic? If mafia would vote for eachother - why is it safe to say mafia would follow eachother? If they have strategy as down pat as you think they do, why do you suppose they'd vote in that manner?

combining all of the stuff from belili I can see only 2 possible conclusions:

1) you can't form your own opinion, and simply follow those of others, because you find it too much work to actually read through everything and analyse it yourself
2) you are mafia, and hiding behind other people.

That's far too condescending. Especially considering the fact that YOU didn't do all the work and YOU accused me of having opinions that I expressly stated I did not have.

Either way, you're not a very good asset to the town, so i'll have to agree with edmund and

vote: belili

(after typing all this I also hear you say you think he's scum, eventhough you unvoted him, which sounds highly unreasonable to me)

Wow that's solid logic.

#1 - If you change your opinion you're scum
#2 - If you consider pros/cons of an opinion you're scum
#3 - If you vote the same way as another player you're scum... oh but it's not reasonable to assume mafia wouldn't vote for eachother... just that they'd vote the same way... or something
#4 - If you would think someone's scum but prefer patience you're scum
#5 - I think I'm going to follow the lead of experienced players but YOU Belili are just lazy or scummie for following the lead of others.

Honestly, that was a lot of inconsistency in one post.