Open 143: Jungle Republic (Game Over!) before 787

AA23 · Post Post #650 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:56 am

@ Sotty -

You're playing EXTREMELY scummy in that post.

Note how many times you ask and suggest the summiness of at least three people in your attempts to take attention off yourself.

And I find it to be a weak attempt to manipulate Percy by connecting him to me so much. He's made it clear why he's on the Mix wagon.

You're trying to shoo him off of it by calling him either scum that's buddying up to me, or making him feel like he's "lost" some kind of battle and has given in to me.

The wagon is valid - that's reason enough for anyone to get on it, and now that Ace is cleared, there's another way to consider it (which is what he's done) - - I've yet to get the impression that he has any intention to buddy up with me, but I do see how you're trying desperately to play off his emotions toward me and coax him off of you - - - you smell like scared villain at this point.
------------------------------------------------
It makes sense for your play to be geared toward favoring Dej. He's acted like your partner from the gate (not even considering the case in any way, it feels like he's protecting you. And Emp) - - I can see why you wouldn't want to mention his mean game play, his poor logic (being wrong so often), his decision making between Hewitt/Emp

Why on earth would you exchange a large post that's 100% geared toward a manipulative psychological attack on Percy for Dej, who's technically your best friend right not? - - There are most certainly thins worth asking of him, no? Do you not see those things? Want to ask those things?

You got snotty with Thesp the moment he voted you - - the moment it didn't look like he'd be as useful to you as Dej
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**Percy**

I assure you that I'm fully aware that you have never in this game approved of the way I presented my case and are not a fan of me - - - I understand you're on this wagon by your own accord.

I wouldn't let a cheap attempt of manipulation form Sotty ruin that
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

@ Sotty

Once again, the repetition is doing the trick....

You asked Percy what kind of answers Mix could have given us.

They are the same answers I want.

Mix hammered - - it was scummy and opportunistic.

Mix said it was NOT opportunistic.

Mix gave his reasons for hammering, yes?

Thos reasons were a LIE. He gave them on pg 14, and they existed on 5 (meaning they clearly did not convince him in any way, because he did not vote Zwet, not did he investigate him, ask him a question, or mention him in any way. the ONLY thing he did was include a "ps. fos zwet" - it was practically a formality and an aside)

So the first reason fell through, and he admits that he doesn't like being on wagons early unless he starts them.

This proves false as in this very game he was second on the Ace wagon (and early as hell at that) - - on page 5, Zwet had three people voting him - - didn't make sense.

Mix got ansy and played a word game of "Like isn't concrete"

QUESTIONS:
1. Why would Mix fail to give true, honest, towny reasoning multiple times? Is it hard for an innocent person to give reasons behind their innocent actions? Doesn't seem like his action was so innocent.

2. When his second response to why he hammered proved to be bullshit and "not concrete" (still boggling that someone wouldn't want to be concrete on that, eh? Maybe he was hoping nobody would call him on it) - - he made a statement to the effect of "people who are certain about who is scum are often scum - I think you're scum" - - he made that post instead of answering my question - - I quoted him on how he multiple times claimed certainty on scum, thus making him one embarrassed hypocrite.

So, as a hypocrite, and a liar (to false reasons), and a lurker (abandoned the game - - so perhaps if nor lurker, than frustrated villain throwing in the towel) he failed to clear himself

Now Sotty - - lets hope that repetition does something for you now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sotty - - why was Percy defending/seemingly buddying up to Mix a concern for you? - - were you trying to prove it was very town of him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Confirm Vote: Sotty

You're scrambling. You're posting is large and focused (coincidentally on the people you consider to be a threat to you). Percy flips to the Mix wagon, you devote a large post to him, Thesp voted you, you made a snappy "contribute something" remark to him, I haven't given up on my Mix wagon, and you've Fos'd me for reasons that are weak and only Dej (your new buddy) would believe (misrep).

Dej really does seem like your villain buddy now. The man has been negative, rude, prejudice, wrong in every one of his suspicions, admittedly wrong in other games, and suspiciously quiet toward Emp which if you check his wiki (well organized

) you'll see that whether he votes Emp, investigates, fos's, or ANYTHING - Dej never lets Emp sit too quiet or play the way he is now.

Makes sense you don't suspect Dej for ANY of the above reasons - why? Because he doesn't want to lynch you. And that's valuable to you - villain.

Vote Count

Sotty7 3 - AA23, Percy, Thesp
AA23 2 - dejkha, Empking
Percy 1 - Sotty7
dejkha 1 - Hewitt

Sotty7 is -2

AA23 · Post Post #651 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:59 am

Mod - - le double post!

Liar...

Sotty7 · Post Post #652 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:57 am

For one AA. You don't need to confirm your vote on me. Everyone knows you're not unvoting, so doing so is a complete waste of time. Seriously.

AA23 Post 650 wrote:@ Sotty -

You're playing EXTREMELY scummy in that post.

Note how many times you ask and suggest the summiness of at least three people in your attempts to take attention off yourself.

Dude, you realize there is still

four

scum out there right? How is being suspicious of three people make me look scummier? How am I taking the attention off myself? I am trying to defend Mix as best as I can, I even asked what questions Percy wants answered.

AA23 Post 650 wrote:The wagon is valid - that's reason enough for anyone to get on it, and now that Ace is cleared, there's another way to consider it (which is what he's done) - - I've yet to get the impression that he has any intention to buddy up with me, but I do see how you're trying desperately to play off his emotions toward me and coax him off of you - - - you smell like scared villain at this point.

When I flip town, will you at least consider the things I have said so far today?

AA23 Post 650 wrote:It makes sense for your play to be geared toward favoring Dej. He's acted like your partner from the gate (not even considering the case in any way, it feels like he's protecting you. And Emp) - - I can see why you wouldn't want to mention his mean game play, his poor logic (being wrong so often), his decision making between Hewitt/Emp

Wait... What? How do I fav dej? How has he acted like my partner? I have played with plenty of “mean” players. Doesn't mean they are scum.

...Haven't I been talking about a possible Emp/dej scum team?

Show me the poor logic you talk about and we'll talk.

AA23 Post 650 wrote:Why on earth would you exchange a large post that's 100% geared toward a manipulative psychological attack on Percy for Dej, who's technically your best friend right not? - - There are most certainly thins worth asking of him, no? Do you not see those things? Want to ask those things?

W....T...F?

My post has quotes and my reasoning. This is not 100% manipulative psychological attack of poor poor Percy. It's called mafia. I build a case, he retorts, I retort back or agree with him and drop the case. This is how the game is played. If

anyone

has been 100% manipulative psychological attacking AA, it's you.

How is dej my best friend? I don't even know the guy.

Things? What things? Could you be any more vague or confusing?

AA23 Post 650 wrote:You got snotty with Thesp the moment he voted you - - the moment it didn't look like he'd be as useful to you as Dej

Ouch... Snotty? No, I personally don't do snotty I guess this isn't the first time the tone of a post was lost over the interwebs. It was a valid question that he still hasn't answered, or are you happy with Thesp's contributions?

Ah who am I kidding, of course you are. He voted me!

AA23 Post 650 wrote:I wouldn't let a cheap attempt of manipulation form Sotty ruin that

Oh to be a fly on the wall when AA sees my flip...

AA23 Post 650 wrote:You asked Percy what kind of answers Mix could have given us.

No AA. I asked Percy what questions

he

wants answers too. Not you, I have been answering your questions.

AA23 Post 650 wrote:QUESTIONS:
1. Why would Mix fail to give true, honest, towny reasoning multiple times? Is it hard for an innocent person to give reasons behind their innocent actions? Doesn't seem like his action was so innocent.

He gave his answers and as far as I know they were true and honest.

He hammered Zwet because he was his number two.

He exaggerated his play of “I don't like to be on wagons early” to make the hammer look better I suppose. He is right that like isn't concrete, still it's weak.

The fact is Mix's “lies” can be put in the same bag as Ace's “lie” and he flipped townie. I know Mix is going to do the same, so if anything this is just a further example of why townies shouldn't lie or twist things to make them look better.

AA23 Post 650 wrote:2. When his second response to why he hammered proved to be bullshit and "not concrete" (still boggling that someone wouldn't want to be concrete on that, eh? Maybe he was hoping nobody would call him on it) - - he made a statement to the effect of "people who are certain about who is scum are often scum - I think you're scum" - - he made that post instead of answering my question - - I quoted him on how he multiple times claimed certainty on scum, thus making him one embarrassed hypocrite.

Isn't this just the same question as one but worded differently? He probably was hoping no one called him on it. I wish I could chat with Mix but I can't. I have never said I should answer for all he has done. But I am going to continue to play the game and make cases while I'm alive.

AA23 Post 650 wrote:So, as a hypocrite, and a liar (to false reasons), and a lurker (abandoned the game - - so perhaps if nor lurker, than frustrated villain throwing in the towel) he failed to clear himself

Now Sotty - - lets hope that repetition does something for you now.

The fact is AA, I have answered everything you have put at me haven't I? You just don't like the answers, hell

I

don't like the answers. Mix was scummy, he played bad and now I have to try and answer for him when really only Mix himself can answer all this. I have done my best to theorize why he did what he did now I have his PM in my inbox.

Really you can keep asking the same questions over and over, worded differently, in different colors, in other languages and my answers will be the same and you will still hate them and not look at

anyone

else. It's called tunneling.

AA23 Post 650 wrote:Sotty - - why was Percy defending/seemingly buddying up to Mix a concern for you? - - were you trying to prove it was very town of him.

No... I was proving it was anti town of him with how quickly he switched.

Are you trying to get me hooked on repetition too? I'm pretty sure I already said why it bothered me. But my main issue is why defend someone so vigorously who's alignment you do not know?

Add to the fact he was on the Dust wagon in a scummy manner, and he flipped and voted me at the start of today despite pretty much hating you AA, yet citing your case as his reason.

2+2=5? Hrmm.

AA23 Post 650 wrote:You're scrambling. You're posting is large and focused (coincidentally on the people you consider to be a threat to you). Percy flips to the Mix wagon, you devote a large post to him, Thesp voted you, you made a snappy "contribute something" remark to him, I haven't given up on my Mix wagon, and you've Fos'd me for reasons that are weak and only Dej (your new buddy) would believe (misrep)

I'm starting to hope that you are scum just for your sanity. If you are townie you are making ridiculous leaps to fit your wagon. You are not looking at things objectively at all which is what all good scum hunters need to do.

Show me how dej is my buddy.
Why are my FOS reasons are weak?
I'm not snappy or pissy. In fact I am enjoying this a lot. I love to debate back and forth so lets not go about trying to make me out to be some irrational woman. That ain't gonna fly with me.

Also I laughed out loud about you complaining about

my

posts being huge. “Hi Mr Pot? Yeah it's Mrs Kettle calling... Ah huh... Oh good, and you? Great! Well just wanted to let you know... You're black!”

AA23 Post 650 wrote:Dej really does seem like your villain buddy now. The man has been negative, rude, prejudice, wrong in every one of his suspicions, admittedly wrong in other games, and suspiciously quiet toward Emp which if you check his wiki (well organized ) you'll see that whether he votes Emp, investigates, fos's, or ANYTHING - Dej never lets Emp sit too quiet or play the way he is now.

Makes sense you don't suspect Dej for ANY of the above reasons - why? Because he doesn't want to lynch you. And that's valuable to you – villain.

OMG

AA, seriously. I was the first person today to bring up the lack of talk between dej and emp. Yeah that was me. I was the one. So you are stealing my thought process to attack me with. How does that work exactly?

So.... You realize the whole quote above is a lie right? If you disagree show and prove. Quotes please.

Thesp · Post Post #653 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:07 am

I haven't forgotten about you all, I'll get something posted tonight.

AA23 · Post Post #654 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:05 am

@Sotty

You're hypocritical.

You cringed at the scumminess of Mix's hammer, yet you think he answered the questions and had reasons to hammer?
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I don't think you'll invest much time scumhunting Dej because he's your best friend as in "He's not voting you, and is hating on your main scumhunter".

When Thesp ignores questions and does serious actions with no explanations/scummy conduct - - you can go ahead and point a finger at him. Emp I can understand, but to say someone isn't being useful just because they know when to keep quiet is a stretch.
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I'm keeping my vote

Percy's vote doesn't seem hypocritical or dirty at all. If anything, you turning the a scumhunting scope his way seems OMGUS and as though you're trying to fit his actions with scumminess rather than the other way around.

He made a vote. He said why he did it. - - interpretation is fair game, think what you want, but until he does something scummy that can't be logically explained, you're wasting your time more than my repetition (which we're starting to share!)

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1.Were you lying when you cringed at how scummy you thought Mix's hammer was?

2.His reasons existed on page 5 - - he ignore Zwet in every way until 14 when he quickhammered him. Why would he use old reasons like that? He was full steam ahead with PASSION toward Ace for all of those pages - - Do the reasons strike you as filler, and him following the crowd? Do you think he really believed those reasons?

3. If he did believe them, why would he ignore Zwet and focus 100% on Ace?

4.**For the record, when I called those reasons out as bullshit, he made the "I don't like being on wagons early unless I start them" comment - - why would he give an alternate hammer reason if the first one was valid?

5. Why would he make the early wagon statement when he knew he was on Ace 2nd?

6. When I asked him to re-state his reasons / give appropriate answers, why did he rant himself into an embarrassing hypocritical hole before abandoning this site entirely?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you understand why I can't just toss you immunity for his actions? I would never forgive myself if you flipped villain and I just passed Mix's actions off for some inexplicable anomaly - - I'd bang my head against the wall and feel duped.

The reasoning is logical, and it fits scum. You're wasting your time trying to talk me off the wagon (not that you fully are).
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** It's a game. If you flip town, I'll feel duped while assuming that Dej and Emp are werewolves and Percy and Thesp are Ash's mafia partners who now want blood for their fallen Ash and are exploiting my hot headedness on the wagon to get a quick Day's mislynch so they can win the game.

But that's too much of a headache to prove and it's only really my gut feeling.

So in the meantime, I'm going to stick to this case and see how everything plays out.

Percy · Post Post #655 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:10 am

Sotty7 648 wrote:
Percy Post 642 wrote:Well, I re-read with Ash in mind, but he was too low profile for me to discover anything worth reporting.
Color me shocked!

Um, OK?

Sotty7 648 wrote:When I say quick, I mean by feel of the game. It was page five, the game was barely starting and suddenly we have Dust at lynch-1. I believe the wagon was scum driven, we already have one proven scum aboard, I happen to believe you are another.

I actually thought long and hard about my vote, but concluded it was better for me to actually vote than say "I like the wagon and the case but won't vote". I wanted answers, and that was the best way to get them.

Sotty7 648 wrote:You found AA worthy of discussion but not worthy of a vote? Why is that? You guys fought so much and disagreed on so many things, why didn't you vote him? You FOSed him and then as the day went on ended up agreeing in principle with him. And now you are voting me on his case, yet you are still uneasy about him? Riiiiight....

There's a simple answer to your question, and it surprises me that you would ask it, given that you read the whole debate. AA appeared aggressive and tunnelled, which, by themselves, are not scumtells. That's why I wanted to talk about AA and his case, but wasn't ready to leap to the conclusion that he was scum. I'm still uneasy about him, because his behaviour is unsettling and annoying, and he often misrepresents other players.

I'm voting for you because (after much clarification) the case against Mix actually started to make sense. Just because someone might be scum doesn't discount the possibility that they're town, or even on another scum faction, and that their case is worthy of support.

Sotty7 648 wrote:Do you agree [Khamisa] is scummy? I'd be happy to lynch her too, you are just my number one suspect.

I feel the same way, funnily enough.

Sotty7 648 wrote:No where am I agruing that you and Mix are scumbuddies, no where. I know I am town, so I am trying to figure what motive you, a players who's aligments I don't know, would have in defending my player slot, only to completely and totally 180 on yourself the next day.

Also, you trying to tell me you have never, ever seen a scum player buddy up to a townie?

I wasn't saying your arguments implied that you were scum with me, not even close. The fact that you brought it forward rules out this possibility.

Also, thanks for the patronising bullshit, but you missed my point. If I'm scum, I have no way of knowing who is town and who is on the other scum faction. If I buddy up to someone at random, their scumflip will implicate me rather than help me. Buddying up is not a good scum strategy in this game.

Yeah, I know it's WIFOM, but it should be acknowledged.

You quoted when I said this, and your response was:

Sotty7 649 wrote:Saying this over and over again doesn't make it true.

I suspect you were referring to the opportunism charge, rather than the argument in question. Is this correct?

Sotty7 648 wrote:The fact [Ash] wasn't posting pretty much told me he was lurking hard. He only had 14 posts at the time you made that post. He was doing a lot of nothing, you keep saying he was null. Why not try and push him, even just a little bit?

Sure, I will acknowledge that my lurker-hunting hasn't been great this game. But with only three active posters, I differentiated the lurkers on what they had actually posted.

Sotty7 648 wrote:So...

You were happy to defend Mix until he stopped posting altogether? Was does lurking
suddenly
make him look more scummy to you? Considering the player wasn't just ignoring the game, he dropped completely off the site. I don't get that train of though. You kept saying Mix had answered the questions, then suddenly, that wasn't enough. I just don't buy it.

He had answered the question:

Why did you hammer zwet?

...and to that question, I was satisfied with his answer.
However, later posts prompted the questions from AA:

Why did he say he didn't like early wagons, when he was on one?

Why did he slam AA for being "certain" on a particular scumcall, only to do it himself later on?

It was at this point that Mix dissappeared. These were questions that deserved better answers than what Mix had given, and that's when he dissappeared.

I want to know why Mix felt so certain about AA's scumminess. I want to know why Mix didn't get on the zwet wagon earlier, given that he was happy to jump on my wagon. I know you don't have those answers (probably), but I'd still like to know your thoughts on AA's play yesterday.

Sotty7 648 wrote:You haven't explained why you have 180'ed on my player slot. Why you are suddenly trusting of AA's case when practically all day yesterday you were posting something against it.

Yes, I answered this in my previous post.

Look. I can see where you're coming from, I really wish I was more clear. But you're wrong.

Here's the ironic part: from your last few posts, I get a really strong town gut-read. It's inexplicable, but it's there. I want to put pressure on lurkers. It's something that you charged me with, and I deserve it. Hence I will

Unvote

and

Vote: Empking
FoS: Khamisa

I don't know if you'll interpret that as scummy, because I am backtracking pretty hard, but I no longer want you to be lynched today.

Empking · Post Post #656 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:13 am

Percy: You think I'm lurking more than Khamisma?

dejkha · Post Post #657 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:43 am

I just read over Percy's defense and it seems to me like it checks out for the most part, but I think they were legitimate concerns and I don't think Sotty was being opportunistic and misreping you.

Percy wrote:I would also like everyone to post their top three suspects, and why they are suspicious to them.

So we can tell scum who to leave alive? As much as it pains me to say, Empking taught me the lesson that telling everyone your top 3 scummy players isn't very smart. And asking for everyones top 3 suspects is really only something Werewolves would want in this particular game. So no, I won't be giving you my top 3 scum suspects.

I view you as town the most though and I can't get much of a read on anyone else other than AA, since we're the most active.

AA wrote:Comments like "saving him for later" and not voting someone because you'd have "no help lynching" since nobody would hop on the wagon etc - - it seems scummy. You're flat out chasing lynches (and easy ones at that) instead of chasing villains.

Or, since I've always taken the same approach, it's my playstyle, and if anything, it's a nulltell. And if I was chasing easy lynches, then that would imply that neither of yesterdays top 2 suspects were scummy, which isn't true.

AA wrote: And if Hewitt and Emp were on equal (or worse of with Emp) standing, and it was the beginning of the day, and you always vote Emp and have a bias to hiim, and want a lynch - - - why Hewitt? What made you think you would have more "help", it's not like he had a bunch of votes on him, you could have easily started the wagon on Emp.

No one ever starts off at equal standings with Emp at the beginning. He's automatically the scummiest because of how he plays. And because it's impossible to read it, anything scummy he does is a nulltell, while if anyone else does it, it's scummy (assuming it's not part of their playstyle). I could have easily started a wagon on Emp, but for me, their was two options: you or someone I can get a read on, and since I doubt you'll reach a lynch today, I voted hewitt since I knew that wasn't how he normally plays.

AA wrote:- I'm feeling on equal ground between Mix and Dej. In addition to his behavior,
how unhelpful he's been (being wrong all the time)
, uncharacteristic game play, and his complete hatred and distancing from the Mix case - - it makes me think they're in league together.

First off, the bolded: WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? WHEN WERE YOU RIGHT THIS ENTIRE GAME? NEVER! YOU WEREN'T PART OF A SINGLE FUCKING LYNCH THAT WAS RIGHT AND YOU ALMOST LYNCHED OUR SEER! AND THE CHANCES ARE, IF SOTTY'S LYNCH GOES THROUGH, THAT WILL STILL PROVE TO BE TRUE! SO SHUT THE FUCK UP AND START CATCHING UP ON "USING YOUR BRAIN FOR DUMMIES", BECAUSE SOMETHING TELLS ME YOU'RE WAY BEHIND!

Now the rest, why would I follow a concept I don't believe in? I told you I don't think buddying is scumtell, so why would I not only do that, but make it so obvious? Why would anyone make it so obvious?

Percy wrote:@dejkha: How concerned are you that Empking is scum?

Depends on what you mean by "concerned". I don't particularly care if he's scum, because I assume town will be smart enough to lynch him. If he's scum it doesn't matter when he's lynched as long as it happens, so I'm not very concerned. If he's not scum, then oh well, at least there's one less Empking.

Hewitt wrote:I don't get why you would vote for someone else for the same reasons why you would vote for Empking, and not vote for him instead. That's what I don't get.

Because no one can get a read on him, so it's null. On the other hand, I

know

that wasn't how you normally play since i can get a read on you.

Sotty wrote:dej knows this game all too well. Here Andytony (scum) latches on and buddies up with dej (town) and ends up winning the game.

I appreciate the compliment, but in a game like this, it's impossible for scum to buddy up to a townie since they don't know for sure who the townies are.

AA wrote:Note how many times you ask and suggest the summiness of at least three people in your attempts to take attention off yourself.

In a game like this, that's no reason to ignore any scumminess in other plays he brings up.

AA wrote:You got snotty with Thesp the moment he voted you - - the moment it didn't look like he'd be as useful to you as Dej

Ok, now this implies that you think he's "favoring" me because I'm not voting him, not because we're scumbuddies.

AA wrote:Dej really does seem like your villain buddy now. The man has been negative, rude, prejudice, wrong in every one of his suspicions, admittedly wrong in other games, and suspiciously quiet toward Emp which if you check his wiki (well organized Smile ) you'll see that whether he votes Emp, investigates, fos's, or ANYTHING -
Dej never lets Emp sit too quiet or play the way he is now.

"Never" is such a delicate word, especially when you use it incorrectly. There has been a game where I payed almost no attention to him, fool. Since you were at my wiki, I'd assume you'd take the time to do an actual meta on me, rather than continuing to lie about it.

AA wrote:Makes sense you don't suspect Dej for ANY of the above reasons - why? Because he doesn't want to lynch you. And that's valuable to you - villain.

So what is it, AA? Do I really look like his scumbuddy? Because this post also implies that you think he's just using me rather than us buddying. You can't have it both ways.

Sotty wrote:If anyone has been 100% manipulative psychological attacking AA, it's you.

^QFT, right there! Definitely.

Sotty wrote:Also I laughed out loud about you complaining about my posts being huge. “Hi Mr Pot? Yeah it's Mrs Kettle calling... Ah huh... Oh good, and you? Great! Well just wanted to let you know... You're black!”

XFD

AA wrote:I don't think you'll invest much time scumhunting Dej because he's your best friend as in "He's not voting you, and is hating on your main scumhunter".

That settles it, you never thought we were scumbuddies, you just liked the way it sounded since it would be so easy to convict me with it.

AA23 · Post Post #658 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:39 am

dejkha wrote: two options: you or someone I can get a read on, and since I doubt you'll reach a lynch today, I voted hewitt

That's chasing a lynch, Dej. Re-read it....very slowly....nice....yeah lol....mmm.

dejkha wrote:
First off, the bolded: WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? WHEN WERE YOU RIGHT THIS ENTIRE GAME? NEVER! YOU WEREN'T PART OF A SINGLE FUCKING LYNCH THAT WAS RIGHT AND YOU ALMOST LYNCHED OUR SEER! AND THE CHANCES ARE, IF SOTTY'S LYNCH GOES THROUGH, THAT WILL STILL PROVE TO BE TRUE! SO SHUT THE FUCK UP AND START CATCHING UP ON "USING YOUR BRAIN FOR DUMMIES", BECAUSE SOMETHING TELLS ME YOU'RE WAY BEHIND!

**"Wah!! Waaahhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Waah!!!"***

There there Dej, here's a tissue....

Calm down, skipper. You're losing composure. And you're getting pretty aggressive.

And I was part of

One

lynch, and it was for a good reason - eliminate confusion between two growing wagons.

You sir, are worse off then me as far as track records with being wrong is concerned - starting with Zwet, and ending with thinking I'm a villain.

And I DO love your logic - I can really trust you to have the best interest of the town as shown below

dejkha wrote:
I don't particularly care if he's scum
, because I assume town will be smart enough to lynch him. If he's scum
it doesn't matter when he's lynched as long as it happens
, so I'm not very concerned. If he's
not scum, then
oh well
, at least there's one less Empking.

dejkha wrote:
AA wrote:You got snotty with Thesp the moment he voted you - - the moment it didn't look like he'd be as useful to you as Dej
Ok, now this implies that you think he's "favoring" me because I'm not voting him, not because we're scumbuddies.

Actually it looks like a combination of things - they don't have to be mutually exclusive. You could be going easy on him because he's your villain buddy, and he can be using that to his advantage.

Pretty simple stuff.

dejkha wrote: "Never" is such a delicate word, especially when you use it incorrectly. There has been
a
game where I payed almost no attention to him, fool.

Please link to that.

And then explain how out of your entire wiki, one instance overpowers a heavy meta of you doing precisely what I said you do.

And then let us know what your allignment was in that one game.

dejkha wrote: So what is it, AA? Do I really look like his scumbuddy? Because this post also implies that you think he's just using me rather than us buddying. You can't have it both ways.

Aw. Poor thing. Aparently it

wasn't

so simple.

You can be going easy on your scumbuddy

And he can be using that to his advantage.

Like a relationship.

Partners.

dejkha wrote:
Sotty wrote:If anyone has been 100% manipulative psychological attacking AA, it's you.
^QFT, right there! Definitely.

This is both puzzling and hypocritical...

Can YOU have it both ways, Dej?

Can I be mindless, hot headed, and ranting, yet APPARENTLY be capable of manipulating and psychologically twisting this game? It seems highly unlikely since I've been the black sheep for the most part.

Sotty wrote:Also I laughed out loud about you complaining about my posts being huge. “Hi Mr Pot? Yeah it's Mrs Kettle calling... Ah huh... Oh good, and you? Great! Well just wanted to let you know... You're black!”

Wow -

Didn't say big posts were bad - I'm talking about the direction, scope, content, and motivation.

You know. Intelligent and substantial things.

You'll get it. Yep.

dejkha wrote:
AA wrote:I don't think you'll invest much time scumhunting Dej because he's your best friend as in "He's not voting you, and is hating on your main scumhunter".
That settles it, you never thought we were scumbuddies, you just liked the way it sounded since it would be so easy to convict me with it.

Settles it? I repeat in the above quote you used that you aren't voting him. That's your half of the scumbuddy relationship. It's quite simpl--oh--nevermind.

To everyone else: "It's quite simple"

Sotty7 · Post Post #659 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:58 am

AA23 Post 655 wrote:@Sotty

You're hypocritical.

You cringed at the scumminess of Mix's hammer, yet you think he answered the questions and had reasons to hammer?

Oh AA... No that's not what I said at all.

Yes, I cringed at the hammer. True.

I think Mix had reasons to hammer the way he did. False.

You have been asking me to reason Mix's play and I have been doing that as best as I can. But it is mostly guess work. I know Mix's role, so knowing that he was a townie I have to try and figure

why

he did what he did. I have to try and put myself in Mix's shoes and see what he saw. All I have is his role and the reasons he posted after he hammered.

So do I think Mix had reason to hammer? In his mind, yeah. Do I think that is enough. No.

See what I am trying to say? Not sure if I can be much clearer.

AA23 Post 655 wrote:I don't think you'll invest much time scumhunting Dej because he's your best friend as in "He's not voting you, and is hating on your main scumhunter".

He is also not topping my list either, which means I am less sure about him than others. But AA, not to hurt your feelings or anything, but I don't care that dej is going after you. It doesn't factor in to anything.

AA23 Post 655 wrote:When Thesp ignores questions and does serious actions with no explanations/scummy conduct - - you can go ahead and point a finger at him. Emp I can understand, but to say someone isn't being useful just because they know when to keep quiet is a stretch.

Do you know who Thesp's top scum picks are? Do you know why he is voting for me? Do you know his thought process on anything that has happened in this day yet?

It's cute you want to stick up for him but I will point fingers at the people that I find scummy. Right now Thesp is one of them. I am looking forward to his post later today.

AA23 Post 655 wrote:Percy's vote doesn't seem hypocritical or dirty at all. If anything, you turning the a scumhunting scope his way seems OMGUS and as though you're trying to fit his actions with scumminess rather than the other way around.

*Faceplam*

If I wanted to go OMGUS shopping, you'd be my first stop don't you think?

AA23 Post 655 wrote:1.Were you lying when you cringed at how scummy you thought Mix's hammer was?

No. See above. You either misunderstood (likely) or misreped

AA23 Post 655 wrote:2.His reasons existed on page 5 - - he ignore Zwet in every way until 14 when he quickhammered him.
a)
Why would he use old reasons like that? He was full steam ahead with PASSION toward Ace for all of those pages - -
b)
Do the reasons strike you as filler, and him following the crowd? Do you think he really believed those reasons?

a) Honestly, I have no idea. Maybe he really really believed them.
b) I would have to guess that he really believed them. That or he just really wanted to hammer, I have seen townies that like to do this, Zwet is one of them. I think he saw a chance to hammer an anti-town player in Zwet and took it. Pulling up reasons later to justify himself. Really this isn't optimal play for scum or town.

AA23 Post 655 wrote:3. If he did believe them, why would he ignore Zwet and focus 100% on Ace?

Ace was his number one and Zwet his number two?

Just like you are all over me and not giving much of anyone a second look.

AA23 Post 655 wrote:4.**For the record, when I called those reasons out as bullshit, he made the "I don't like being on wagons early unless I start them" comment - - why would he give an alternate hammer reason if the first one was valid?

How is that an alternate reason?

AA23 Post 655 wrote:5. Why would he make the early wagon statement when he knew he was on Ace 2nd?

Maybe he forgot?

AA23 Post 655 wrote:6. When I asked him to re-state his reasons / give appropriate answers, why did he rant himself into an embarrassing hypocritical hole before abandoning this site entirely?

Where is “embarrassing hypocritical hole”? I must have missed it on my read. (This is a serious question, on preview I could see how it could be taken as brush off or something but I really want to know what post you are talking about.)

AA23 Post 655 wrote:Can you understand why I can't just toss you immunity for his actions? I would never forgive myself if you flipped villain and I just passed Mix's actions off for some inexplicable anomaly - - I'd bang my head against the wall and feel duped.

The reasoning is logical, and it fits scum. You're wasting your time trying to talk me off the wagon (not that you fully are).

I'm not asking for immunity.

I'm not trying to talk you off the wagon because I can see you are locked in. I am just making sure I answer everything you throw at me so you don't explode and say I'm scummy for ignoring you.

Percy Post 656 wrote:
Sotty7 648 wrote:You found AA worthy of discussion but not worthy of a vote? Why is that? You guys fought so much and disagreed on so many things, why didn't you vote him? You FOSed him and then as the day went on ended up agreeing in principle with him. And now you are voting me on his case, yet you are still uneasy about him? Riiiiight....
There's a simple answer to your question, and it surprises me that you would ask it, given that you read the whole debate. AA appeared aggressive and tunnelled, which, by themselves, are not scumtells. That's why I wanted to talk about AA and his case, but wasn't ready to leap to the conclusion that he was scum. I'm still uneasy about him, because his behaviour is unsettling and annoying, and he often misrepresents other players.

I'm voting for you because (after much clarification) the case against Mix actually started to make sense. Just because someone might be scum doesn't discount the possibility that they're town, or even on another scum faction, and that their case is worthy of support.

I suppose that could be a logical explanation for your play. The gnawing feeling in my gut tells me that you are playing the field accordingly and that you are scum. It just all feels wrong to me, but you could just have really bad timing.

Percy Post 656 wrote:
Sotty7 648 wrote:Do you agree [Khamisa] is scummy? I'd be happy to lynch her too, you are just my number one suspect.
I feel the same way, funnily enough.

So why did you vote emp over Kham?

Percy Post 656 wrote:Also, thanks for the patronising bullshit, but you missed my point. If I'm scum, I have no way of knowing who is town and who is on the other scum faction. If I buddy up to someone at random, their scumflip will implicate me rather than help me. Buddying up is not a good scum strategy in this game.

First off, I don't intend to be patronizing so apologize you felt that way. Secondly you have a point in regards to the two scum groups. Still you defended Mix pretty hard. You had some motive as to why, I'm trying to figure out just what that motive is.

Percy Post 656 wrote:I suspect you were referring to the opportunism charge, rather than the argument in question. Is this correct?

Yes. I was talking mostly about this little ditty here:

Percy Post 646 wrote:The whole case is poorly thought out, opportunistic lashing out in an attempt to take the heat off.

Percy Post 656 wrote:Sure, I will acknowledge that my lurker-hunting hasn't been great this game. But with only three active posters, I differentiated the lurkers on what they had actually posted.

So you can also understand why, now that Ash has flipped scum, I have to wonder he got ignored by you? Honest mistake? Or something more?

Percy Post 656 wrote:I want to know why Mix felt so certain about AA's scumminess. I want to know why Mix didn't get on the zwet wagon earlier, given that he was happy to jump on my wagon. I know you don't have those answers (probably), but I'd still like to know your thoughts on AA's play yesterday.

You're right, sadly I don't have those answers.

I got the impression that Mix was sold on Ace and Zwet for scumminess. AA just seemed to be a fight between the two.

My impression of AA is conflicted. He has flashes of goodness but more often then not he has me shaking my head and wondering how he gets to the points he gets too. I think he twists and misreps people to suit him and his suspicions at the time instead of the other way around. Really he was all about Mix only to switch at the end to Ace. Although he was talking a lot about the Ace wagon (mostly because you forced him too) he still switched from someone he had a lot of passion for, to someone else. Kinda like Mix did.

He just didn't do it in one swift and sudden move.

Percy Post 656 wrote:Here's the ironic part: from your last few posts, I get a really strong town gut-read. It's inexplicable, but it's there. I want to put pressure on lurkers. It's something that you charged me with, and I deserve it. Hence I will
Unvote
and

Vote: Empking
FoS: Khamisa

I don't know if you'll interpret that as scummy, because I am backtracking pretty hard, but I no longer want you to be lynched today.

I'm not sure how to take it really. I'm a little confused. Could you really have a townie read on me? If that is true, the unvote makes sense. Still you could be scum and came to the realization that I won't be the easy lynch you were hoping. So you could just be messing with my mind.

But the fact is I would have been voting for you today even if you hadn't voted me at the start of the day. So it changes little. It does show me that you are willing to be reasonable. I think AA's head is going to explode though...

I'll admit I haven't looked at the latest dej AA back and forth. I'll come back later for that, this reply took enough out for me for now

AA23 · Post Post #660 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:44 am

@ Sotty.

I'm conflicted. In your explanation, there are a number of "Maybe he did this" and "I don't know" that - - and I

don't blame you for it

- I understand you're doing the best you can to answer things only Mix could - - however, it still strikes me as a variable.

That being said: I'm happy to be open minded when something is presented to me and not challenged (I get chauvenistic and prickish when I slip into a defensive mode) - so bare with me, and answer something for me:

The scenario I stated as a "gut feeling that I couldn't have the energy to prove" in my post to you - at the bottom, where I indicate how I would feel and what I would think if you flipped town. What are your thoughts on it, and is it plausible.

While I'm too proud to

easily

get off the Mix wagon, comparing me to him won't do too much - - my switch to Ace was justified and clearly explained (and I stress again that I thought the meta would prove in my wagon's favor. Fair is fair, and meta suggested Ace was scum. Mix had nothing to do with Zwet in any way nor in the way I was cognizant of Ace.

**You asked about the hypocritical hole - - it's post #461**

hewitt · Post Post #661 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:00 am

Sotty7 wrote:When I flip town, will you at least consider the things I have said so far today?

Totally unnecessary appeal to emotion. Ugh, that bothers me.

dejkha wrote:No one ever starts off at equal standings with Emp at the beginning. He's automatically the scummiest because of how he plays. And because it's impossible to read it, anything scummy he does is a nulltell, while if anyone else does it, it's scummy (assuming it's not part of their playstyle). I could have easily started a wagon on Emp, but for me, their was two options: you or someone I can get a read on, and since I doubt you'll reach a lynch today, I voted hewitt since I knew that wasn't how he normally plays.

So your vote was pretty much 100% based on uncharacteristic gameplay from myself? Which was then resolved by you looking at my other active games and noticing that I was inactive in pretty much all of them?

AA23 · Post Post #662 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:27 am

AA23 wrote:
** It's a game. If you flip town, I'll feel duped
while assuming that
Dej and Emp are werewolves
and
Percy and Thesp are Ash's mafia partners
who now want blood for their fallen Ash and are exploiting my hot headedness on the wagon to get a quick Day's mislynch so they can win the game.

But that's too much of a headache to prove and it's only really my gut feeling.

So in the meantime, I'm going to stick to this case and see how everything plays out.

@ Hewitt -

I just finished asking Sotty to respond to the above as well, and in light of you noticing the odd choice Dej made for you over Emp, I thought you might have an opinion on it as well.

It's something I didn't even want to bother bringing up because of the ridiculous headache it would be to follow through on. I mean, I don't like starting wagons on gut feelings - it's not fair to any player (scum or town)

But it could make sense.

When I made this alt account, I was interested in experimenting different gameplay than my normal routines. This is the first AA23 game I've had, and I went into it thinking I'd play that slayer's gambit I always suspected Ace/Zwet of doing
(For those who don't know what that is, it's when you bait yourself as an easy lynch and watch for which scum run for you/uses you - likely kills you but ultimately helps the town)
I didn't have the stomache or patience for it, so I brought up the Dust case. It was

valid

but

weak

(a perfect platform for villains). Nothing ultimately came of it, and I couldn't figure one way or the other who was who, so it was useless to me.

Then the Mix debacle. I abandoned my initial gameplay to persue what I felt was a scum attached to hypocrisy, and variables - - if you're gonna hammer, especially if you only LIKE to hammer - - you damn well better know how to defend it because nobody in Mafiascum believes in a perfectly clean hammer (people ALWAYS turn on the hammer of a mislynch, if even for two posts - but 9/10 the towny can defend why they did it, or at least built up to it by following the wagon - - Mix was out of the blue)

So we have that. You know why I did what I did with Dust, you know I was opposed to the Zwet wagon, you know why I suspected Mix and abandoned trying to lure villains out - - at this time, if Mix(Sotty) is indeed town and my

valid

points are unfortunate variables - - then I do indeed wonder about the scenario in my opening quote to this post.

It's not so crazy - - That Percy and Thesp are mafiascum, and when Ash went down, they figured a quicklynch today would eliminate a towny/enemy to even the score/move closer to a win.

And it would also make sense out of why Dej in uncharacteristic to Emp. Perhaps they are werewolves together.

The numbers make sense, the relationships make sense. It could indeed work.

However - - it's like pressing a drill to your temple and piercing right through to try and prove it. I don't know if I have the energy, but if there are any takers on that scenario,

Khamisa, Hewitt, and Sotty, what do you think?

If our votes went toward that theory and we are indeed the townies left over - - it would require other villains hopping on the wagon and risking their own exposure in an attempt to eliminate the opposition (wolf/mafia).

Thoughts?

AA23 · Post Post #663 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:29 am

Mod- if you spot where I formatted code wrong at the word "valid" can you help me out? - - the word alone should be bold, I didn't cap it off and I think it reads as "big"

You forgot to cap off the bold tags in the quote. For some reason it closes the bolding off with the end of the quote but not the coding. Which screws everything up.

Have no idea why it became large text though!?

Sotty7 · Post Post #664 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:27 am

AA23 Post 659 wrote:
dejkha wrote: So what is it, AA? Do I really look like his scumbuddy? Because this post also implies that you think he's just using me rather than us buddying. You can't have it both ways.
Aw. Poor thing. Aparently it
wasn't
so simple.

You can be going easy on your scumbuddy

And he can be using that to his advantage.

Like a relationship.

Partners.

So you and Thesp are buddies then?

Is your whole case for me and dej being buddies because I have gone “easy” on him? I don't see it.

AA23 Post 661 wrote:@ Sotty.

I'm conflicted. In your explanation, there are a number of "Maybe he did this" and "I don't know" that - - and I
don't blame you for it
- I understand you're doing the best you can to answer things only Mix could - - however, it still strikes me as a variable.

You just hit the nail on the head there. It is extremely variable. It's me guessing bascially, I can't do anything better than that.

AA23 Post 661 wrote:That being said: I'm happy to be open minded when something is presented to me and not challenged (I get chauvenistic and prickish when I slip into a defensive mode) - so bare with me, and answer something for me:

The scenario I stated as a "gut feeling that I couldn't have the energy to prove" in my post to you - at the bottom, where I indicate how I would feel and what I would think if you flipped town. What are your thoughts on it, and is it plausible.

Talking about this:

AA23 Post 655 wrote:** It's a game. If you flip town, I'll feel duped while assuming that Dej and Emp are werewolves and Percy and Thesp are Ash's mafia partners who now want blood for their fallen Ash and are exploiting my hot headedness on the wagon to get a quick Day's mislynch so they can win the game.

I think Percy is likely to be Ash's partner yes. I'm not sure what to think about Thesp, I have never played with him before. I'm waiting to see what he comes up with when he posts, but right now I think he could be scum. Working on the theory that Emp and dej are wolves then he would have to be scum. my other pick for Percy's partner is you AA. I think I have already elaborated on that though.

As for your explanation as to why Thesp and Percy were both voting me, it seems likely. Scum might try not to give themselves away so easily, but at the start of the day my lynch was looking almost set in stone. Thesp kept wanting everyone to wait until I posted something and right after I did he just simply voted me with no reasoning.

That said, the guy I replaced was scummy and were I a townie looking in on this game, I would find him very suspicious.

But if the last four scum is some combo of dej/emp/Percy/Thesp then that would mean Kham is innocent. I find that hard to swallow. Right now I would probably swap her out for either dej or Thesp.

But yes, I think something along those lines is very plausible.

AA23 Post 655 wrote:**You asked about the hypocritical hole - - it's post #461**

Ah, it's a post made by you burning Mix on several of his posts. I thought it was a post by Mix that was so bad it hurt. For everyone else, this is the post:

AA23 Post 461 wrote:
Mixologist wrote:The people you are accusing me of dirtly hoping behind,
Ash and hewitt, are now shamelessly hoping on behind you. What do you make of that?
Anyone can vote for any reason - - If there's a case on them, go ahead and persue it - I'm voting you for my case, good sir.

Mixologist wrote: Also, re-reading you AA, it should said that speaking in absolutes like you are concerning me actually implicate you.
Saying that someone is 100% scum when you are not an investigative role implies that you have knowledge that the rest of us don't. Saying that implies that you are scum. Are you scum?

Mixologist wrote:Ace is scum so bad it hurts.

Mixologist wrote: I intend to see Ace lynched tomorrow. He is scum.

lol.....OUCH.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Now please - Answer the question. Or are you indeed guilty and can't think of a new answer? DO let this answer be "absolute" will you, friend?

And yeah, that does look pretty bad. I have no idea why he did that.

hewitt Post 662 wrote:
Sotty7 wrote:When I flip town, will you at least consider the things I have said so far today?
Totally unnecessary appeal to emotion. Ugh, that bothers me.

Eh... I guess.

I just felt like I was banging my head against a brick wall with AA. No excuse, but I am trying to get him to think outside of the box a little.

AA23 Post 663 wrote:When I made this alt account, I was interested in experimenting different gameplay than my normal routines. This is the first AA23 game I've had, and I went into it thinking I'd play that slayer's gambit I always suspected Ace/Zwet of doing
(For those who don't know what that is, it's when you bait yourself as an easy lynch and watch for which scum run for you/uses you - likely kills you but ultimately helps the town)
I didn't have the stomache or patience for it, so I brought up the Dust case. It was
valid but weak (a perfect platform for villains). Nothing ultimately came of it, and I couldn't figure one way or the other who was who, so it was useless to me.

Dust was ran up to lynch-1 and Percy at least said your case was good. How can you say nothing came out of it if this is the true drive behind the initial push?

AA23 Post 663 wrote:It's not so crazy - - That Percy and Thesp are mafiascum, and when Ash went down, they figured a quicklynch today would eliminate a towny/enemy to even the score/move closer to a win.

I agree and is one of my main points against Percy today.

AA23 Post 663 wrote:And it would also make sense out of why Dej in uncharacteristic to Emp. Perhaps they are werewolves together.

The numbers make sense, the relationships make sense. It could indeed work.

It's a place to start. You should never lock anything in 100%, but you push and probe to see what comes of it. That's what I always try to do anyway.

Mod: Can we get a prod on Kham please?

Percy · Post Post #665 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:31 am

Empking 657 wrote:Percy: You think I'm lurking more than Khamisma?

Depends on your definition of lurking.

Is your post count higher? Yes.
Is your content generation higher? No.

And by content generation, I mean things like stating opinions, rather than asking questions.

dejkha 658 wrote:I just read over Percy's defense and it seems to me like it checks out for the most part, but I think they were legitimate concerns and I don't think Sotty was being opportunistic and misreping you.

I agree, which was part of why I removed my vote on Sotty. I felt too much of my reaction was partly OMGUS, partly "you're making stupid arguments", which is not always indicative of scumminess.

AA's reaction to Sotty's case on me makes me worried, now that I think about it. I'm worried that it's buddying, as I agree(d?) with his case against Mix.

dejkha 658 wrote:As much as it pains me to say, Empking taught me the lesson that telling everyone your top 3 scummy players isn't very smart. And asking for everyones top 3 suspects is really only something Werewolves would want in this particular game. So no, I won't be giving you my top 3 scum suspects.

I want people to start talking about other players in this game. Yes, it does have the unwanted side effect of identifying who would be an easier lynch to push, but can you think of another way to get people talking?

dejkha 658 wrote:If he's not scum, then oh well, at least there's one less Empking.

I lol'd.

@Sotty: I voted Emp over Kham, because at the very least Kham is stating opinions whenever she bothers to get online to play the game. Whilst I would be happy with her lynch, I would be

happier

with an Emp lynch.

I can't say how I got the town read, but I'm trying to listen to my gut more than my head when I play town. Too often I attack people for having what I see are bad arguments, when both scum and town have bad arguments all the time. My vibe is that you're town, and my initial vibe of Mix was that he was town too, so perhaps your "AA wore you down with repetition" call was correct.

@AA: Could you do us all a HUGE favour and hit preview before you post? And don't just look for the formatting blunders, but also read what you wrote, preferably out loud, so you can make yourself sound a *little* more sane.

I also suggest you stop trying to find all the bad guys at once and start trying to find just one. Partnering people together is best at endgame, and we're only midgame.

AA23 · Post Post #666 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:23 am

@ Percy - On the same page with the preview thing, no need to be harsh about it, but yeah, I agree!

Also - I want to bang my head in a fucking wall when you say things like what I read at the end of your post.

After I just spent a day wagoning Mix 100% and not talking about ANYBODY else - you make a post suggesting you want people to be open minded to other possibilities, and tell me to start singling out again? If what your smoking is free - send it over and I'll kick back with some Placebo, Kanye West, and Luce while I trip out

Give me a break, man.
---------------------------------------------------------------
@ Sotty

The scenario I stated makes sense, and I understand that it makes it hard to swallow Khamisa being innocent - however, I'm playing with Khamisa in another game and they are no more/less active than in this one at present.

Also - it would indeed make sense for the Mafiascum to be Percy, Thesp, and Ash.

Ash falls, and Thesp and Percy hop on board with my hot headed wagon to get a quicklynch (and the quiet townies/lurkers fall in line seeing as two stronger posters have hopped on) - - however, the moment suspicions rise, Percy hops off? Hm.

Then there's the Dej and Emp relationship - as werewolves - I think that can make sense as well.

Like I said, I'm not sure how to best approach any of the theories, I suppose the next steps are

Waiting for Khamisa to respond to the prod
Waiting for Thesp to post
--------------------------------------------------------

And did Percy honestly suggest that I'm buddying with someone I've risked my own credibility and life in this game trying to lynch for two days?

I'm not buddying to Mix (so to speak) - - I'm being open minded to Sotty and any suspicions I have.
--------------------------------------------------------

AA23 · Post Post #667 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:25 am

And Percy - -

You only just now have an issue with pairing people in suspicions?

Thanks for being fair to me when I was paired to two different people in this game and you didn't even peep.

Percy · Post Post #668 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:48 am

AA mode 1: Tunnel on one player

AA mode 2: Try to find all the scum at once

Guess what? There is a middle ground. You should check it out.

When you try and pair two people, sure, that's OK if you've got the evidence. But you're trying to figure out who

all

the scum are, and you don't have any evidence other than "it would be nice if it were true".

Also, I was suggesting that you were buddying with me in your attack on Sotty's case.

(Also what I'm smoking is definitely not free

)

AA23 · Post Post #669 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:11 pm

It's seldom free lol

------------------------------------------------------
Listen, I'm not trying to kick up a storm or anything - it's a thought I'd like to humor - an ultimate goal if you will - and it's unfortunately contingient on Sotty flipping town (for now)
------------------------------------------------------

Thesp · Post Post #670 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:55 pm

This back and forth is getting very tiring.

I hope no one is taking things personally, and I hope people consider their personal approaches a little more carefully.

That aside, I'm happy with my vote - I think Mixologist was incredilikely to be scum, and Sotty7 has taken his role. While I don't mind an askance look at Percy (as I've had reservations of him in the past), I have generally regarded his approach as very consistent pro-town, and is the first to acknowledge looking through AshMC1984's stuff. To me, this seems to indicate town or werewolf, and I'm perfectly content ignoring him. (He might be worth revisiting near the endgame, as would anyone, but not worth consideration now.)

Percy wrote:I would also like everyone to post their top three suspects, and why they are suspicious to them.

Fair enough at this point.

Mixologist/Sotty7

- I'm still unsettled by the unnecessary quickhammer:

Thesp wrote:Mixologist's quick hammer makes sense for preventing such a scenario, and the refusal to ask for a claim makes a heck of a lot of sense
if he already presumes that Dust is the actual seer
. I'm greatly uncomfortable with the quick hammer because it's most tactically sound for scum, and not at all tactically sound for town to have done.

dejkha

- His contempt of questioning by AA23 is unsettling.

hewitt

- Bizarre abandoning of Mixologist wagon today after refusing to discuss him further yesterday. I don't think he's trying to scumhunt.

On the last two, the order is interchangeable.

I find myself waffling on AA23, and am moving more towards the camp that he's a tunnel-visioned townie.

AA23 wrote:@ Sotty -

You're playing EXTREMELY scummy in that post.

I strongly disagree with this.

Empking, what do you think of Hewitt?

dejkha wrote:No one ever starts off at equal standings with Emp at the beginning. He's automatically the scummiest because of how he plays. And because it's impossible to read it, anything scummy he does is a nulltell, while if anyone else does it, it's scummy (assuming it's not part of their playstyle). I could have easily started a wagon on Emp, but for me, their was two options: you or someone I can get a read on, and since I doubt you'll reach a lynch today, I voted hewitt since I knew that wasn't how he normally plays.

What do you mean by the word "scummiest"/"scummy"? I think there's some language confusion between what you're saying and what I'm hearing from you on this.

(reads more)

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dejkha, please lay off some.

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You too, AA23. Thanks.

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Still happy with a Mixologist/Sotty7 lynch.

Empking · Post Post #671 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:44 pm

Percy: So by lurking you mean helping the town rather than scum? That's interesting.

Thesp: I'm getting a slight town read on Hewitt as it looks like he's trying to scum hunt.

Percy · Post Post #672 (ISO) » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:58 am

@Empking:

Let's look at your Day 2 contributions.

Empking wrote:AA: I'm a lurker? Not compared to most people.

Vote: AA

Defending Zwet now he's dead and his focus on the me and Dust are scum buddies thing.

Some OMGUS...

Empking wrote:
AA23 wrote:Firstly - Terrible reason to vote ANYONE

Second - You're seperate from lurkers with Hewitt in that sentence. Note the comma. I'm not calling you a lurker. You're
Your last sentence reads poor as well.

Some snide remarks...

Empking wrote:Kham: Who's scum?

Some questions anyone could ask...

Empking wrote:I don't find Mix overly scummy.

Unqualified defences...

Empking wrote:Thesp: What are your feelings on Mix?