Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[ZazieR]

Jesus Mastin. Need to cut the crap.
Your obviously mafia. xD

K. so. I'm gonna have to go re-read through all this crap.

FoS: Empking's Alt.

I post reasons later.

Checked if he had already explained why, and he did.
Noted that he did the same as the one he's FoSing.

[ZazieR]

I find roflcopters constant strait up blaming Mastin being scum kinda scummy.

Though I have to admit, I believe he brings up a few valid points.

@Kublai:I don't know for sure, but perhaps his acting different is because that was a newbie game. I can already tell how different newbie games are from large games in the first two pages.

I'm gonna assume that rvs is over for a fact, so I hope the complete and total randomness dies down a bit. Though with Mastin and Zazie around....

Can you elaborate on the Rofl-part?
And why no vote for either one of them?

The elaboration is in post 178.

I was referring to the bolded. I don't think you have explained that bit yet which points you see as valid.

[ZazieR]

Going by meta game knowledge that others have, that's normal. But I dan't go basing my opinions oiff of other peoples thoughts.

So really I don't know much about that subject, and am currently looking at others opinions on that subject.

Noted.

[ZazieR]

And Hayker continues to add totally nothing except for opinions that are easy to back-track.
Good second choice.

I didn't add anything sicne the first post of page 5(I think, I might have made another post somewher eon 5, but I'm too lazy to check right now. Will corretc later if nescesary)

Opinions that are easy to back-track? Could you explain exactly what this means? My apologies, but despite english being my first(and only) language, I have only a basic grasp of how to use it.

My point with that post was that you haven't hunted for scum in any of your posts, and only in your first post you have given your opinion about players.
(Though this has a bit changed now)
However, the opinions you stated in your first post are easy to back-track. Take for example Kublai:

@Kublai:I don't know for sure, but perhaps his acting different is because that was a newbie game. I can already tell how different newbie games are from large games in the first two pages.

By stating the part about the newbie game, you can easily switch your opinion about him.
This is also the case with your opinion about Rofl, but I'm withholding the explanation for that now.

[ZazieR]

He's scummy because of saying the RVS was over, when it clearly wasn't to the majority of the players.

Nah, Rofl just got the memo first that the RVS was over, as the mod always sends a PM first to the scum, and afterwards to the townies. Which means Rofl claimed scum, and Hayker is town. Let''s lynch ahead[/sarcasm]

My opinion is that there''s no general borderline of the RVS. And I see no reason why this should be scummy.

Sarcasm aside. Rofl seemed to set a distinct border. Reasons have been explained as to why I found it scummy.

I said

general

border. In other words, the RVS ends for each player at different times. Not at the same time, which would be a general border.
Rofl found something scummy, so it ended for him. You even state he had valid reasons. So I find it scummy that you use this as a reason for voting him.

[ZazieR]

But first of all, yay! A mafia doctor (or whatever it is) has been eliminated!

This is the reverse-"well, that sucks"-tell.

Auto-FoS: ckool.

It's alright to be happy that a mafia doctor is dead.
To EXPRESS that, however, is scummy.

Never believed in this tell, never will.

[ZazieR]

Just because something is said in RVS i shouldnt pay attention to it?

For now, yes. Later when scum has flipped, RVS posts can be useful.

[ZazieR]

Do you think if he was scum he is making a good move.

Yes, because there will be many players who are suspicious of him due to the claim, but more won't be suspicious as it is seen as a pro-town move to claim miller before a cop investigation has been revealed.
Which means that an opposing scumteam kill would be very unlikely

You think there's 2 scum teams? Don't break my heart here Zazie... what do you know???

This point is based upon experience. In almost every game I've seen in which the mafia had a name, there was a second scumteam. The only exception I know off is this one.
However, in all the large normals in which scum had a name, there was always a second scumteam:
-Mafia 82
-Mafia 86
-Mafia 88

Also, in each large normals with only one scumteam, the scum didn't have any names:
-Mafia 83
-Mafia 84
-Mafia 85
-Mafia 87
-Mafia 89
-Mafia 90

Based upon these finished games, I think that there are two scumteams.

[Empking's Alt]

Mastin: Which of the M players is acting the scummiest?

[ZazieR]

Elaborate.

Using someone else's evidence to justify your vote. If it turns out to be wrong, it's the other guy's fault, not yours. Self-absolution is scummy.

As far as you know?! You claimed miller, shouldn''t you know if you''re a death miller or not in such situation?
And are you serious with the second point, or not?

My Role PM just says I'm a regular miller. I haven't checked iamausername's meta-mod to see if he's the type of mod to get creative with secret roles. So I'm a regular miller, as far as I know.

Semi-serious on the second point. Maybe. Vague accusations suck, don't they.

Because in the quote, especially the bolded, he shows that he knows it wasn''t the other scumteam. And that''s only possible if you''re part of it.
Therefore, scumslip.

It doesn't show crap. In context I was asking ckool5000 why he thought "scenario A" happened and not an alternative "Scenario B". I never said that "Scenario B" is what I thought happened.

FOS: ZazieR

ORLY? Whose evidence did I use then? Because I'm positive that I only mentioned your quote in my post which had my vote included. So explain where I did so.

Obv scum lying about his role. Note that he claims that he wasn't sure if he was a regular miller or a death miller, yet didn't ask the mod what he was.

Vague accusations don't suck at all. Based upon how the accused player reacts, you can get a lot of information. Your reaction tells me that you are scared of it as you can't defend yourself against it. And I see no reason why you should be scared if you are indeed a miller.

It shows a lot. But before I explain, which role do you think killed Konowa: SK, vig or a mafia role?

[ZazieR]

@Hayker: Stop making posts like 185 & 186. It's bad enough that ZazieR and Mastin post mostly nonsense posts. Don't emulate them.

Wow, somebody sounds frustrated...

[ZazieR]

Mastin- Seems perfectly normal to me. Lots of scumhunting. Pro-town.
ZazieR- Mastin with shorter posts.

So, Mastin isn't my alt. I'm Mastin's alt

[ZazieR]

Face it, Mastin (at least so far) has been THE talk of the game. If he is town, then all he is doing is taking attention away from finding the scum. All the mafia members can sit back and fly UTR, because good ole Mastin will be drawing all the heat on himself.

Uhm, no. Kublai's claim has been THE talk.
What's your opinion of Kublai actually? You haven't mentioned him so far
(EBWOP, you have in this post >.<)

I also disagree with policy lynches, as it gives the scum an easy lynch if that player is town.

I do have one hypothetical question I would like to ask. Kublai Khan has claimed Miller. If, by some happenstance, the cop in this game were to investigae KK on night 0, would the result that he/she received change anything?

Cops would get the opposite of what they would get when investigating a townalligned player. In other words, cops would get the same result as when they would investigate scum.

[ZazieR]

I do find it quite interesting that some people feel the need to vote at this stage of the game. Scumtell? Possibly.

Why?

Yeah, I don't think you've explained why it's a possible scumtell.

[Johnny Rotten]

Face it, Mastin (at least so far) has been THE talk of the game. If he is town, then all he is doing is taking attention away from finding the scum. All the mafia members can sit back and fly UTR, because good ole Mastin will be drawing all the heat on himself.

Uhm, no. Kublai's claim has been THE talk.
What's your opinion of Kublai actually? You haven't mentioned him so far
(EBWOP, you have in this post >.<)

I also disagree with policy lynches, as it gives the scum an easy lynch if that player is town.

I do have one hypothetical question I would like to ask. Kublai Khan has claimed Miller. If, by some happenstance, the cop in this game were to investigae KK on night 0, would the result that he/she received change anything?

Cops would get the opposite of what they would get when investigating a townalligned player. In other words, cops would get the same result as when they would investigate scum.

You really don't think that Mastin and his bizarre, mind-fuck style of gameplay has been more of a talk than KK? Maybe the quality of talk is better in the KK side, but the sheer quantity has got to be in Mastin's camp.

I understand what the role of the millar is. What I mean to ask is, would it make any difference if the cop were to have investigated KK night 0, and then come forward with his result? Would the guilty or not guilty verdict change anything?

For what it is worth, I feel that KK is honest in his Role Claim. I replaced into another game with him in it, and his play is consistant with that game. I know that he could be pulling the wool over my eyes, but thats what I got.

[Johnny Rotten]

I do find it quite interesting that some people feel the need to vote at this stage of the game. Scumtell? Possibly.

Why?

Yeah, I don't think you've explained why it's a possible scumtell.

I feel that, in a large game such as this, with a 3 week deadline and over half of the participants not even posting yet, voting at that time was inappropriate. Perhaps trying to start a bandwagon? Perhaps to show scum-mates who to target?

Like I said previously, this is my first large game, so perhaps this is the way it goes. It just struck me as odd.

[ZazieR]

Face it, Mastin (at least so far) has been THE talk of the game. If he is town, then all he is doing is taking attention away from finding the scum. All the mafia members can sit back and fly UTR, because good ole Mastin will be drawing all the heat on himself.

Uhm, no. Kublai's claim has been THE talk.
What's your opinion of Kublai actually? You haven't mentioned him so far
(EBWOP, you have in this post >.<)

I also disagree with policy lynches, as it gives the scum an easy lynch if that player is town.

I do have one hypothetical question I would like to ask. Kublai Khan has claimed Miller. If, by some happenstance, the cop in this game were to investigae KK on night 0, would the result that he/she received change anything?

Cops would get the opposite of what they would get when investigating a townalligned player. In other words, cops would get the same result as when they would investigate scum.

You really don't think that Mastin and his bizarre, mind-fuck style of gameplay has been more of a talk than KK? Maybe the quality of talk is better in the KK side, but the sheer quantity has got to be in Mastin's camp.

I understand what the role of the millar is. What I mean to ask is, would it make any difference if the cop were to have investigated KK night 0, and then come forward with his result? Would the guilty or not guilty verdict change anything?

For what it is worth, I feel that KK is honest in his Role Claim. I replaced into another game with him in it, and his play is consistant with that game. I know that he could be pulling the wool over my eyes, but thats what I got.

No, I really think that Kublai has been mentioned more.
The timing of the verdict would make the difference to me. If it was made before the miller claim, I'd question the claimed miller. If it was made afterwards, I'd question the claimed cop.

[ZazieR]

I do find it quite interesting that some people feel the need to vote at this stage of the game. Scumtell? Possibly.

Why?

Yeah, I don't think you've explained why it's a possible scumtell.

I feel that, in a large game such as this, with a 3 week deadline and over half of the participants not even posting yet, voting at that time was inappropriate. Perhaps trying to start a bandwagon? Perhaps to show scum-mates who to target?

Like I said previously, this is my first large game, so perhaps this is the way it goes. It just struck me as odd.

I don't think the timing of voting makes any difference in either a newbie, a mini or a large. the reason why I prefer to vote as soon as possible, is mainly to show where my suspicions lie.

[Johnny Rotten]

I do find it quite interesting that some people feel the need to vote at this stage of the game. Scumtell? Possibly.

Why?

Yeah, I don't think you've explained why it's a possible scumtell.

I feel that, in a large game such as this, with a 3 week deadline and over half of the participants not even posting yet, voting at that time was inappropriate. Perhaps trying to start a bandwagon? Perhaps to show scum-mates who to target?

Like I said previously, this is my first large game, so perhaps this is the way it goes. It just struck me as odd.

I don't think the timing of voting makes any difference in either a newbie, a mini or a large. the reason why I prefer to vote as soon as possible, is mainly to show where my suspicions lie.

So, what your basically saying is, my assumptions were wrong. LOL

It's okay, been wrong before, will be wrong again.

[Faraday]

Alright, I'm back.......

I do have one random, off topic question. What the hell is a "scum-day"? Is that just a fancy name for birthday? (yes, it is 3 am and I am tired)



Anyway, back on topic.....I tend to look at things in a fairly black and white kind of way. Yes, the object of the game is to lynch scum (from a town standpoint) or to lynch town (from a mafia standpoint), with the

ultimate objective

being to eliminate all of the other side.

Now, my call for other people opinions on Mastin was made with the

ultimate objective

in mind, which is winning the damn game!!!

Face it, Mastin (at least so far) has been THE talk of the game. If he is town, then all he is doing is taking attention away from finding the scum. All the mafia members can sit back and fly UTR, because good ole Mastin will be drawing all the heat on himself.

THAT is why I feel he makes for the best lynch at this point. A few other players that have experience with Mastin say that he plays all of his games like this, from start to finish. In my opinion, he is a detriment to the town, and should be lynched.

Vote: Mastin

Now, the reason that I did not want to vote before is simple.....the game JUST started!! The deadline is what, 3 weeks away? I didn't see the need to do that yet, but apparently my opinion was the opposite of "good game logic", hence my above vote.

You're not scum hunting. Policy lynches are bad, policy lynches on players adding contribution (and fucking loads of it) to the game are amazingly stupid.

And he's not "taking attention away from finding scum", that only happens if you're lazy. Just read/skim his posts if you wish, but I really don't see what's so bad about him so far

And as for the KK slip, I buy his explanation as that's how I originally read it.

I don't like the fact he's not sure if he's a death miller though, since when is death miller a normal role anyway? Time's are a-changing I guess.

[Empking's Alt]

Alright, I'm back.......

I do have one random, off topic question. What the hell is a "scum-day"? Is that just a fancy name for birthday? (yes, it is 3 am and I am tired)



Anyway, back on topic.....I tend to look at things in a fairly black and white kind of way. Yes, the object of the game is to lynch scum (from a town standpoint) or to lynch town (from a mafia standpoint), with the

ultimate objective

being to eliminate all of the other side.

Now, my call for other people opinions on Mastin was made with the

ultimate objective

in mind, which is winning the damn game!!!

Face it, Mastin (at least so far) has been THE talk of the game. If he is town, then all he is doing is taking attention away from finding the scum. All the mafia members can sit back and fly UTR, because good ole Mastin will be drawing all the heat on himself.

THAT is why I feel he makes for the best lynch at this point. A few other players that have experience with Mastin say that he plays all of his games like this, from start to finish. In my opinion, he is a detriment to the town, and should be lynched.

Vote: Mastin

Now, the reason that I did not want to vote before is simple.....the game JUST started!! The deadline is what, 3 weeks away? I didn't see the need to do that yet, but apparently my opinion was the opposite of "good game logic", hence my above vote.

You're not scum hunting. Policy lynches are bad, policy lynches on players adding contribution (and fucking loads of it) to the game are amazingly stupid.

From memory, what contribution has he added to the game?

[Faraday]

Who? Mastin? Trying to find scum, why do you ask?

[fallen angel]

Really none. Kise voted him for having no content and I voted Kise because I was already voting JR and thought Kise was trying to bandwagon him. Other then that, he's suggested policy lynching Mastin because he doesn't feel like reading. No real content from him.

[Kublai Khan]

@fallen angel 213 - Good idea. I'll probably do my scumlist tonight. Interesting opening 24 hours to a game.

@Johnny Rotten 219 & 221 - There are so very few compelling reasons to policy lynch. Mastin hasn't come close to any of those reasons.

ORLY? Whose evidence did I use then? Because I'm positive that I only mentioned your quote in my post which had my vote included. So explain where I did so.

ckool5000.

Wow. Thanks for posting ckool.
Vote Kublai
Obv scumslip in the quote from him that ckool just posted. Will comment more when I get at that post.

Your vote is the direct result of piggy-backing someone else's evidence. Quit pretending like I'm making things up.

Obv scum lying about his role. Note that he claims that he wasn't sure if he was a regular miller or a death miller, yet didn't ask the mod what he was.

My Role PM says Emerald Miller. I assumed that if I was a death miller (or other miller variant), then iamausername would have told me. But if you insist, I'll double check with iamausername.

It shows a lot. But before I explain, which role do you think killed Konowa: SK, vig or a mafia role?

I don't know. However, I strongly doubt that it was the Cerulean Mafia.

[Kublai Khan]

Oh, just so everyone knows. During the work week I'll only be posting about 1-2 times a day (once in morning, once at night). Usually in the style of my few posts. Just giving a heads up in case anyone complains about a change in my posting habits.