Mini 801- Kubrick Mafia (Over)

[Fishythefish]

@Fishy and everyone else who likes that argument: so you're saying it came so

completely

natural to you that you basically consider it an impossibility that someone with the same PM didn't arrive at the same conclusion?

I find this quite surprising. Nothing in my PM (or in what Cat described of his) directly supports the idea of claims powering something up. There's also nothing that directly supports it in BC's claim. As far as I can tell, it's actually a bit of a stretch. Not a bad one, mind you, but a stretch nonetheless.

The fact that I'm the one responding to these questions may give the appearance that I like this argument more than I do.

That assumption came naturally enough to me that I consider it slightly, but only slightly, unlikely that someone with the same PM didn't arrive at the same conclusion. If I considered it impossible, I would be voting for you.

There's nothing in either the PM or the claim directly supporting the idea. However, it was natural to be on the lookout for things to link the PM to (particularly as the early days of Spartacus were a rather unhelpful and predictable fiasco), and this seemed a natural candidate.

@Everyone voting for muzzz: what arguments did I miss in 216? I really don't understand the 5 votes on muzzz.

[muzzz]

The fact that I'm the one responding to these questions may give the appearance that I like this argument more than I do.

Just like how I keep responding to you, even though I'd rather be arguing this with someone who sees it as a cause for voting. Where the heck is everyone?

There's nothing in either the PM or the claim directly supporting the idea. However, it was natural to be on the lookout for things to link the PM to (particularly as the early days of Spartacus were a rather unhelpful and predictable fiasco), and this seemed a natural candidate.

But at least we're making some progress.

I disagree that it would have been (or is) natural to be on the lookout for things to link to the PM. We already had a decent explanation, based on the movie. Keeping your eyes open for alternatives is good, of course. But as far as I see things, we had no reason to think our PM's might be hinting at some hidden power. So I don't see actively looking out for things like that as a natural thing. In fact, I'm inclined to say it's a pretty bad idea. Right up there with looking for confirmation options without having a clue about who knows what.

[Fishythefish]

Seems reasonable.

[Empking]

Vote Count 10

Muzzz (5): Cateraction, Lazurusmoth, Pads, Bloodcovenant, Infinis
Pads (4): Ort, Muzzz, Spolium. Fishy
Infinis (2) Skitzer, Ash
Fishy (1): Archon
Not Voting (0):

7 to Lynch

[Infinis]

Vote Count 10

Muzzz (5): Cateraction, Lazurusmoth, Pads, Bloodcovenant, Infinis
Pads (4): Ort, Muzzz, Spolium. Fishy
Infinis (2) Skitzer, Ash
Fishy (1): Archon
Not Voting (0):

7 to Lynch

All right since we're at a stalemate. Let's see if we can deduce why.

The two leading wagons are Muzzz and Pads

That leaves 6 other people out of 10 to vote one of the wagons.

Skitzer and Archon should have been replaced but I'm not a mod and I don't know how hard it is to get replacements.

That leaves us needing 6 out of 8 people to vote one of the wagons.

Since we have need to have 2 more people for muzz to be lynched, and that leaves only ash, still OMGUS voting me (BTW I still think he's scum), present and not voting a wagon.

This means one of three things to me:
1. muzz is scum and at least two of Ort, Spolium, Fishy, and ash are scum.
2. pads is scum and at least two of Cateraction, Lazurusmoth, Pads, Bloodcovenant, Ash are scum
3. Nothing can be determined since we have so few people myself included posting daily or nearly daily.

I wil try and do a reread (hard to do on weekend since so many things to do.
[/list][/list]

[Fishythefish]

@mod: could we get a prod on Skitzer? Thanks.

Archon: are you still around and catching up?

[Fishythefish]

@Infinis: why are you voting for muzzz?

[Infinis]

@Infinis: why are you voting for muzzz?

In essence, as I said in my voting post, BC argued his points better against muzz especially the point muzz "forced" BC to claim. Muzz assumed that everyone knew what BC's role was, which with the lack of participation then and now, was a long shot.

Why did BC claim so quickly when pressured by Muzz and why did he hide his claim in a previous post? I don't know.

Why did BC and muzz argue the point back and forth so vehemently? Which distracted the town from anything else.

As to why I'm not voting pads, I looked over a couple of his posts and I did start to wonder. He claimed Spartacus first and yet some of the accusations he makes about spelling and cat's musing seem out of place.

That said I can not and will not believe that Kubrick mafia is based solely around Spartacus. I just can't see the mod telling scum and town alike to claim Spartacus. That's why my vote is muzz he barned the initial thought that as town we can't clear early Spartacus claimants. It was an advantage to town, IMO, that is now lost. Since the person initiating the doubt of town=spartacus claim is not up for vote, I choose to vote his echo.

Again I think Ash is scummiest, but again to keep my vote where it does not advance the game is stubborn and counterproductive. If I'm part of a mislynch at least we can move forward and determine who on the wagon was scummy in intention and who was not.

If it's not a mislynch then hurray for us.

As such, since you are so adamant and probative about your vote and my own respectively.

Unvote

Please tell me why you are voting pads

[Fishythefish]

Thing is, it's pretty clear muzzz had spotted something was up in BC's play, which meant he wasn't a normal Spartacan townie. If muzzz was scum, there's really no motivation to do anything other than keep quiet and night kill Spartacus. Scum don't have any reason to publicly out privately known PRs.

One big reason for voting Pads is that, for me, the muzzz wagon is bad, both in its arguments and in its participants. It feels like it has gathered support too easily to be a weak wagon on scum, and remarkably little has been thrown up against it. It feels like the mislynch wagon for the day. I also have a scummy read on Pads-
1. Claims Spartacus- a townie claiming Spartacus to hide him? Doesn't make sense. I don't really buy the excuse of following the movie- it would be an odd thing to assume that whatever worked for a character in a movie would work for the corresponding character in a game of mafia.
2. Extremely weak points on various players-
Spelling error.
"Showmanship"- even if ort was trying to build up to his claim, hardly a scumtell.
Mason theory- a thinly disguised way to attack muzzz (for probably not being in a hypothetical mason group). His post implies a false dichotomy- muzzz the Spartacan mason or muzzz the scum.

I'm not saying it's a brilliant case. He's only made 6 posts. But I haven't liked a pretty high percentage of those posts, and I don't see a better wagon around.

[Empking's Alt]

One Week Left

[muzzz]

I'm starting to run out of patience. People that have posted in the last 4 days:

Infinis
Pads
Fishythefish
Spolium
muzzz
BloodCovenent

People that haven't:

Archon (4 days, 15 hours)
skitzer (1 week, 3 days, 21 hours)
lazarusmoth (4 days, 18 hours)
ortolan (1 week, 6 hours)
cateraction (4 days, 20 hours)
AshMC1984 (5 days, 5 hours)

Yes, that's literally half the game that's gone AWOL.

@Emp: can we get prods on the second list?

[AshMC1984]

- If you were the cop, who would you investigate tonight?
-

If you were scum, who would you want to kill tonight?

this seems very scummy to me. Anyone else?

I'd say

slightly

scummy.

Vote Count 10

Muzzz (5): Cateraction, Lazurusmoth, Pads, Bloodcovenant, Infinis
Pads (4): Ort, Muzzz, Spolium. Fishy
Infinis (2) Skitzer, Ash
Fishy (1): Archon
Not Voting (0):

7 to Lynch

All right since we're at a stalemate. Let's see if we can deduce why.

The two leading wagons are Muzzz and Pads

That leaves 6 other people out of 10 to vote one of the wagons.

Skitzer and Archon should have been replaced but I'm not a mod and I don't know how hard it is to get replacements.

That leaves us needing 6 out of 8 people to vote one of the wagons.

Since we have need to have 2 more people for muzz to be lynched, and that leaves only ash, still OMGUS voting me (BTW I still think he's scum), present and not voting a wagon.

This means one of three things to me:
1. muzz is scum and at least two of Ort, Spolium, Fishy, and ash are scum.
2. pads is scum and at least two of Cateraction, Lazurusmoth, Pads, Bloodcovenant, Ash are scum
3. Nothing can be determined since we have so few people myself included posting daily or nearly daily.

I wil try and do a reread (hard to do on weekend since so many things to do.
[/list][/list]

Infinis: you seem in a rush to lynch - scummy.
You also put Muzzz at L-2 despite mentioning that I'm a top suspect for you more than once - scummy.
You also attempt to minimise my case on you as OMGUS when I think it's clear it's far from that. Do I need to go over it again? Also I don't see how my not joining one of the two prominant wagons is scummy as you imply.
Then you give a list of three potential scenarios. The only name that pops up twice is my own. Given the nature of D1 lynches I would think that you would be more than happy to vote me based on this. Yet you didn't - you voted someone you have a higher chance of getting lynched. If anything my vote for you is anti-OMGUS - you aren't gunning for me hard enough given what you've stated about me. If you wanted me lynched (as opposed to just hunting

a

lynch), then you should have built a case on me and tried to persuade others, not join the biggest wagon.
Very happy with my vote where it is.

[BloodCovenent]

@Infinis: why are you voting for muzzz?

Why did BC claim so quickly when pressured by Muzz and why did he hide his claim in a previous post? I don't know.

Why did BC and muzz argue the point back and forth so vehemently? Which distracted the town from anything else.

Why didn't i restate my claim, because I felt that all that was needed to know, was already said. But since doing so has hindered, i will restate my claim now.

-I am Spartacus, I will be given the Cop ability when I am recognized by a specific group.

But, like I've said before, I don't become the cop until people work out that I'm truly Spartacus.

So, wait... are you blaming Muzz and I for distracting the town? When it's your responsibility as town, to scum hunt? So, if one person is scum-hunting, then others are not allowed? Total weak-sauce dude, I'll talk more about this when i get back from the beach. Until then, have a nice day.

[muzzz]

I don't become the cop until people work out that I'm truly Spartacus.

Do you have any idea how that will work in practice. Like, how will you and/or Emp know that they've worked out you're truly Spartacus?

A yes or no will suffice, by the way. If you know but feel it's better not to explain, I can live with that.

[ortolan]

sorry, I got prodded will post tomorrow my time

[Infinis]

- If you were the cop, who would you investigate tonight?
-

If you were scum, who would you want to kill tonight?

this seems very scummy to me. Anyone else?

I'd say

slightly

scummy.

Vote Count 10

Muzzz (5): Cateraction, Lazurusmoth, Pads, Bloodcovenant, Infinis
Pads (4): Ort, Muzzz, Spolium. Fishy
Infinis (2) Skitzer, Ash
Fishy (1): Archon
Not Voting (0):

7 to Lynch

All right since we're at a stalemate. Let's see if we can deduce why.

The two leading wagons are Muzzz and Pads

That leaves 6 other people out of 10 to vote one of the wagons.

Skitzer and Archon should have been replaced but I'm not a mod and I don't know how hard it is to get replacements.

That leaves us needing 6 out of 8 people to vote one of the wagons.

Since we have need to have 2 more people for muzz to be lynched, and that leaves only ash, still OMGUS voting me (BTW I still think he's scum), present and not voting a wagon.

This means one of three things to me:
1. muzz is scum and at least two of Ort, Spolium, Fishy, and ash are scum.
2. pads is scum and at least two of Cateraction, Lazurusmoth, Pads, Bloodcovenant, Ash are scum
3. Nothing can be determined since we have so few people myself included posting daily or nearly daily.

I wil try and do a reread (hard to do on weekend since so many things to do.
[/list][/list]

Infinis: you seem in a rush to lynch - scummy.
You also put Muzzz at L-2 despite mentioning that I'm a top suspect for you more than once - scummy.
You also attempt to minimise my case on you as OMGUS when I think it's clear it's far from that. Do I need to go over it again? Also I don't see how my not joining one of the two prominant wagons is scummy as you imply.
Then you give a list of three potential scenarios. The only name that pops up twice is my own. Given the nature of D1 lynches I would think that you would be more than happy to vote me based on this. Yet you didn't - you voted someone you have a higher chance of getting lynched. If anything my vote for you is anti-OMGUS - you aren't gunning for me hard enough given what you've stated about me. If you wanted me lynched (as opposed to just hunting

a

lynch), then you should have built a case on me and tried to persuade others, not join the biggest wagon.
Very happy with my vote where it is.

A rush to lynch is all you've got, whoops almost forgot the "My OMGUS vote is not an OMGUS vote" vote? A no lynch for the town is a point for the mafia. Better to pick a wagon and get the game moving. With no body, town has no idea, no context with which to scum hunt. Sure someone can make a huge slip and appear scummy but barring that a no lynch today, which is in 6 days equals the same situation we had day 2.

You're in both scenarios because you're vote is crucial now and refuse to use it responsibly to help town. A mislynch, even my own, would help town progress, you are stonewalling which is anti-town. making it seem pro-town is scummy.

As to muzz and BC battle, what I said was that you both argued the point of why the claim was made ad nauseam. Im pretty sure a lot of people dropped during that time, waiting for the dust to settle. Others just posted nothing posts to seem active.

Look at muzz's 235. 4 days on average of non-posting, that's more than an inactive weekend excuse (fri-sat-sun)!

[AshMC1984]

Ugh.... I forgot that no majority = no lynch in this game.

Unvote; Vote: Muzzz

Not willing to lynch Pads at this time, and in general I trust the people on the Muzzz-wagon more than those on the Pads-wagon.

[BloodCovenent]

I don't become the cop until people work out that I'm truly Spartacus.

Do you have any idea how that will work in practice. Like, how will you and/or Emp know that they've worked out you're truly Spartacus?

A yes or no will suffice, by the way. If you know but feel it's better not to explain, I can live with that.

I have absolutely no idea, just Emp said he would tell me when it's activated.

[lazarusmoth]

Just fixed my net connection. Will be posting soon.

[skitzer]

Oh I'm here! I had an unexpectedly extended V/LA. Will post soon!

[cateraction]

Can we get a full claim from Muzz now?

[muzzz]

Am I at L-1?

[skitzer]

OK, read/skimmed through. I can see good points for the muzzz case, but I'm not exactly sure the Pads case came from, but I was probably skimming and not reading then. Still, I feel that Infinis is sticking out; s(he) seems very flexible and will go whichever way the tide blows.

I'll start playing more actively as more posts come in, but it'll be extremely hard for me to fully recover from a 1week3day deficit.

[AshMC1984]

Am I at L-1?

No.

[muzzz]

That one was rhetorical.