Mini 807 - Save the Mafia! (Game Over!)

[stuntkeyboardist]

The vote is the most important tool of the town. Its use is pressure, something a FoS really doesn't do on any real level, and not using the vote, especially early on when there's a bigger margin before a lynch, means you're not pressuring any possible scum.

Lobstermania random voted, so it's clear he recognises that his vote can put pressure on people and maybe make scum trip up, so the fact that there is now someone he genuinely suspects means that he really should be using his vote to put pressure on CB. There's no reason why lobstertown shouldn't be voting CB at this time, but lobsterscum might well want to avoid a bandwagon on CBtown, or even be trying to keep the pressure off CBscum.

Very well put, but I dont think he was saying he wasnt going to vote, I think it was more of an, "I dont really know right now, let me think on it first. lobster is fairly new, but at the same time, I think his choice is also pretty rational. At the time, I dont feel like there is any significant argument against lobster.

[ChannelDelibird]

I would rather that you didn't put words in Wicked's mouth, nohand...

[Wickedestjr]

If he was scum wouldn't he find pleasure in adding pressure to innocent townies to get them lynched.

[ChannelDelibird]

If he was scum wouldn't he find pleasure in adding pressure to innocent townies to get them lynched.

If he thought that this was an issue that might snowball and get CBtown lynched without his vote, then he might well prefer to stay off the wagon so he could say "I told you so" later. Or, as I say, they could be scumbuddies (but I'm loath to look at this possibility too closely just yet as neither of their alignments are known).

[wolframnhart]

Yeesh, come back and BAM pages to read. As far as the thing goes with canadian, i have seen the "nervous" player that nohand talked about, and maybe this is an exact case, but i am just as intrigued by lobster saying that canadian was trying to fit back in, so he fos's, and when asked about his Fos and then unvotes his random, saying

I will unvote, but I'm going to hold off for a little bit longer before I vote again.

that just doesnt sit well with me for some reason.

How so? I random voted Nohands, fos'd canadianbovine, and then unvoted nohands. That seems like a slow, but logical progression towards voting on someone who is actually worthy of a vote (like canadianbovine).
Does this help?

I could easily be taking something from nothing here but the reason why is it seems like you are holding onto your for vote a time when you can go with the flow. You really aren't adding to the discussion, just taking a random vote off and then saying you are going to hold off for a little while. Now nohand could have easily (as ChannelDelibird put it) put words in your mouth and answered for you, which is something i hate seeing happen but it does) but even if you are new like he says, it doesn't mean you are townie (or in this game mafia), it could be a slip that with everything going on with canadian will get by almost unnoticed.

[stuntkeyboardist]

I'm not trying to put words in his mouth, but can you say you've never held off voting before? I cant whether I stated it or not. I just don't think he put his explanation well into words. Either way, I don't feel it was that scummy.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm not trying to put words in his mouth, but can you say you've never held off voting before? I cant whether I stated it or not. I just don't think he put his explanation well into words. Either way, I don't feel it was that scummy.

Sure, I've held off voting before, but only later in the game. On Day 1, with so many votes needed to lynch, there's no need to be as cautious as that. You should pretty much be voting at all times on Day 1.

[lobstermania]

I disagree here. The vote is the most important tool of the town. Its use is pressure, something a FoS really doesn't do on any real level, and not using the vote, especially early on when there's a bigger margin before a lynch, means you're not pressuring any possible scum.

Lobstermania random voted, so it's clear he recognises that his vote can put pressure on people and maybe make scum trip up, so the fact that there is now someone he genuinely suspects means that he really should be using his vote to put pressure on CB. There's no reason why lobstertown shouldn't be voting CB at this time, but lobsterscum might well want to avoid a bandwagon on CBtown, or even be trying to keep the pressure off CBscum.

On Day 1, with so many votes needed to lynch, there's no need to be as cautious as that. You should pretty much be voting at all times on Day 1.

You bring up some interesting points. I didn't consider not-voting to be scummy, nor did I consider rushing a non-random vote to be town. To me, an FoS reads "you have one last shot at changing my mind before I vote." Personally, I think this is a good tool to use at times. I apologize if my pace isn't as quick as yours; I have a bad habit of acting impulsively and making bad decisions.

After re-reading and sleeping on it, I

would

like to

Vote: canadianbovine

, and here is my case:
Random votes Nohands, and then defends his "justifications" of pressure (just how does he type with no hands?!?).
The un-vote was silly, but ultimately could be justified.
The re-vote was straight out appealing to town.
The second un-vote and welcome speech was uncalled for.

[Wickedestjr]

@ChannelDelibird - That is a good point, and that could very well be what he is doing, but I don't think that's what he was up to. I still think that canadianbovine's revotes and unvotes for the same person scummier, so my vote remains on him/her.

[canadianbovine]

at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite - lobster is appeasing the spotlight by voting after everyone gets on his case about it.

[ChannelDelibird]

I do agree that canadian taking credit for his random vote starting all this discussion seems weird, but I am not sure if he has any more reason to do that as scum than town (and of course, that's the key question). If none of us had questioned the validity of his statement, the most he could hope for would be that we would think he was the guy that got us out of the random voting stage. My question to all of the people voting canadian right now is:

What would canadianscum gain if we thought he was somehow responsible for the end of the random voting stage?

-------------

canadian, I am flattered that your definition of "everyone" appears to be "ChannelDelibird", but I think that's a slight exaggeration.

-------------

Also, generally, for those who haven't played with me before - my username is often abbreviated to CDB, if you prefer not to write the whole thing out.

[Conspicuous_other]

My question to all of the people voting canadian right now is:

What would canadianscum gain if we thought he was somehow responsible for the end of the random voting stage?

It gives him a somewhat legitimate answer as to why he revoted NHT.

[ChannelDelibird]

My question to all of the people voting canadian right now is:

What would canadianscum gain if we thought he was somehow responsible for the end of the random voting stage?

It gives him a somewhat legitimate answer as to why he revoted NHT.

What answer would that be? Just spell it out for me.

[Conspicuous_other]

He was trying to get the discussion started.

[CoCo]

For those wondering about why I said Conspicuous_other had diverted a discussion was because I was interested in how one can type without using their hands. Considering the game is no longer in the goofy/random stage, I'll just go ahead and

unvote

.

[Conspicuous_other]

I was about to ask about that. Thanks for clearing that up.

[xRECKONERx]

@CoCo:
Umm... so you actually think it's a problem that Conspicuous_other was "diverting" the discussion away from a joke vote debate?

[My Milked Eek]

Let's see...

you're missing My Milked Eek

This is not the first time a mod forgets me. I'm getting used to it, I guess.

practically an OMGUS if i hadn't removed my vote.

Why is this "practically an omgus"? Does that mean that after I voted you, you cannot vote for me, regardless of the current votecount (and my behaviour?).

Bovine, you strike me as a rather odd and impatient guy. "Impatient" is not what I mean exactly as I do not know the exact word in English, but it comes close in meaning I guess. You've voted and unvoted twice for nohands. Correct me if wrong: the first vote was random and because of the "how can he type?"-thing (paraphrased), unvoting because you were afraid of L-2 and the second vote was a vote after cdb questioned you about the first unvote. What strikes me as particularly odd is the following quote of yours after and about your unvote:

So by your logic, my removing my vote proves my townness?

The "logic" obviously didn't lead to you being town. I might be looking into things here, but to me that feels like a semi-desperate attempt at trying to be town (or mafia if we use the flavor (this will get confusing)).

I'm also seeing some potential egging going on in here somewhere:

I noticed lobster was on but I guess he didn't check this thread yet.

at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite - lobster is appeasing the spotlight by voting after everyone gets on his case about it.

The first quote is most likely in the line of the "impatient guy" I saw before. You do realize people play other games as well, right? Or they don't have time to post, but only to read.

The second quote could just as well be applied to yourself, as you yourself conveniently pointed out.

For those wondering about why I said Conspicuous_other had diverted a discussion was because I was interested in how one can type without using their hands. Considering the game is no longer in the goofy/random stage, I'll just go ahead and unvote.

Got more to contribute but an unvote and a rather disappointing explanation of what appeared to be a rather interesting line? It's been 2-3 pages since your last post.

It gives him a somewhat legitimate answer as to why he revoted NHT.

Can I say that you don't believe that 'excuse', by the use of the words "somewhat legitimate"? And I don't think that "trying to get the discussion started" is an advantage to the scum.

I don't think there was any advantage to revoting nohands for scum in general. Revoting someone (without any real reason and under the pretense of the rvs) is shady. Without going too much into wifom, I don't think it's an action that scum would undertake. There are other means to "spark discussion".

However, considering a quote I previously brought up, it might be something that bovinescum (as opposed to scum in general) would do to appear protown. The quote being:

So by your logic, my removing my vote proves my townness?

After re-reading and sleeping on it, I would like to Vote: canadianbovine, and here is my case:
Random votes Nohands, and then defends his "justifications" of pressure (just how does he type with no hands?!?).
The un-vote was silly, but ultimately could be justified.
The re-vote was straight out appealing to town.
The second un-vote and welcome speech was uncalled for.

That's more a recap (which wasn't needed) with two lines of opinion than a case.


I guess that's it for now.

[My Milked Eek]

Ugh, forgot a part. Stupid internet ADD. Bolded is the added part.

However, considering a quote I previously brought up, it might be something that bovinescum (as opposed to scum in general) would do to appear protown. The quote being:

So by your logic, my removing my vote proves my townness?

It could be applied here as well as him trying to appease (or so he thinks as scum) the town.

[CoCo]

@CoCo:
Umm... so you actually think it's a problem that Conspicuous_other was "diverting" the discussion away from a joke vote debate?

Sure, in a humorous sort of way. My vote was a joke vote. Nothing more. Those things happen in the beginning of a game.

[Conspicuous_other]

Can I say that you don't believe that 'excuse', by the use of the words "somewhat legitimate"?

Indeed.

And I don't think that "trying to get the discussion started" is an advantage to the scum.

Not my point. My point is that being able to use the excuse of "I was starting the discussion" could be seen as an advantage for scum, as it gives something of an excuse for his strange actions.

[My Milked Eek]

No, I didn't mean it was your point. It's my point, lol. I could've phrased it as:

"And I think that "trying to get the discussion started" is an not an advantage to the scum, nor is it a disadvantage."

Which might have been clearer.

[canadianbovine]

Let's see...

you're missing My Milked Eek

This is not the first time a mod forgets me. I'm getting used to it, I guess.

practically an OMGUS if i hadn't removed my vote.

Why is this "practically an omgus"? Does that mean that after I voted you, you cannot vote for me, regardless of the current votecount (and my behaviour?).

Bovine, you strike me as a rather odd and impatient guy. "Impatient" is not what I mean exactly as I do not know the exact word in English, but it comes close in meaning I guess. You've voted and unvoted twice for nohands. Correct me if wrong: the first vote was random and because of the "how can he type?"-thing (paraphrased), unvoting because you were afraid of L-2 and the second vote was a vote after cdb questioned you about the first unvote. What strikes me as particularly odd is the following quote of yours after and about your unvote:

So by your logic, my removing my vote proves my townness?

The "logic" obviously didn't lead to you being town. I might be looking into things here, but to me that feels like a semi-desperate attempt at trying to be town (or mafia if we use the flavor (this will get confusing)).

I'm also seeing some potential egging going on in here somewhere:

I noticed lobster was on but I guess he didn't check this thread yet.

at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite - lobster is appeasing the spotlight by voting after everyone gets on his case about it.

The first quote is most likely in the line of the "impatient guy" I saw before. You do realize people play other games as well, right? Or they don't have time to post, but only to read.

The second quote could just as well be applied to yourself, as you yourself conveniently pointed out.

For those wondering about why I said Conspicuous_other had diverted a discussion was because I was interested in how one can type without using their hands. Considering the game is no longer in the goofy/random stage, I'll just go ahead and unvote.

Got more to contribute but an unvote and a rather disappointing explanation of what appeared to be a rather interesting line? It's been 2-3 pages since your last post.

It gives him a somewhat legitimate answer as to why he revoted NHT.

Can I say that you don't believe that 'excuse', by the use of the words "somewhat legitimate"? And I don't think that "trying to get the discussion started" is an advantage to the scum.

I don't think there was any advantage to revoting nohands for scum in general. Revoting someone (without any real reason and under the pretense of the rvs) is shady. Without going too much into wifom, I don't think it's an action that scum would undertake. There are other means to "spark discussion".

However, considering a quote I previously brought up, it might be something that bovinescum (as opposed to scum in general) would do to appear protown. The quote being:

So by your logic, my removing my vote proves my townness?

After re-reading and sleeping on it, I would like to Vote: canadianbovine, and here is my case:
Random votes Nohands, and then defends his "justifications" of pressure (just how does he type with no hands?!?).
The un-vote was silly, but ultimately could be justified.
The re-vote was straight out appealing to town.
The second un-vote and welcome speech was uncalled for.

That's more a recap (which wasn't needed) with two lines of opinion than a case.


I guess that's it for now.

i believe you were looking at all my posts seperately.

in 55, the logic i referred to was CDB's, and i was questioning how he meant it because the logic + the flavor was convincing.

post 64 was during CDB's interrogation of mine when i remarked how the game was picking up. I had hoped to see other people and i had noted that lobster was online at the time.

post 109 was an ironic appeal to

Personally, the re-vote looks like a way to

appease the spotlight

from the unvote and sink back into the folds.

.

at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite - lobster is appeasing the spotlight by voting after everyone gets on his case about it.

[My Milked Eek]

>> Bovine:

> about 64:
I was indeed reading isoposts at the time of writing the big post, but during the day I read the entire thread and took notes, so I do know the context. I understand you were trying to pick up the pace as I used the word "impatient" on you before (well I mean a slighter version of "impatient", if you have a substitute word, then please).

It's just something I felt worthy to note. That particular quote is not a direct attack or anything, it would have been if you had directly addressed that fact as him lurking, but the quote is more a "why did you bring this up?" kind of thing. I assumed it must have been you were implying him to lurk, which it, in all honesty, does.

> about 109
I noticed the irony, I think I even said it, but not with as many words.

> about 55
Could you clarify what you mean with
"

in 55, the logic i referred to was CDB's, and i was questioning how he meant it because the logic + the flavor was convincing.

"

I'm in denial about a language barrier most of the time, but I can't escape it after a long day of studying I guess.

The way I perceive 55 is that you thought that unvoting nohands because of the perceived L-2 is evidence (or indication) of your townness.

[canadianbovine]

honest mistake.

"in 55, the logic i referred to was CDB's, and i was questioning how he meant it because the logic + the flavor was convincing."

i meant to say the logic + the flavor was confusing, not convincing.