Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

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kublai khan is town, and wins the common sense award for knowing what to do as a miller

mastin needs a new start-the-game-up gag. mastin has also committed a real scumtell, policy voting the guy who claimed miller in his first post.

vote: mastin

for great justice

whoever killed elvis has earned my eternal ire and i miss her already

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seriously guys, random vote stage is over, enough with the shenanigans, we can now proceed to lynching mastin

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no mastin, backing up your kublai khan vote with the fact that he claimed miller is not "icing on the cake" and i will not let you pretend its part of your meaningless antics, its scummy and you will now be lynched. trying to unconfirm a player who is now as good as confirmed town will not stand on my watch.

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mastin failing to respond specifically to post 33 is further evidence that he is scum

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fallen angel is scum with mastin. you heard it here first.

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I find roflcopters constant strait up blaming Mastin being scum kinda scummy. Though I have to admit, I believe he brings up a few valid points.

explain how i am "blaming" mastin. if you mean the fact that i am accusing him, please expound on why this is scummy. i would also like to point out that saying my attack on mastin is scummy and then calling my points valid is an example of trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Obviously, I'm quite familiar with your style by now, so I know what to expect. And besides that, it generally would not be a good idea for scum to put so many eyes on them during the start of a game, because if they got lynched on D1 and flipped mafia, they'd be jackasses for real..

fact: mastin has developed a meta for some kind of random phase jackassery involving rapid fire monster posts. you evidently are aware of this.
fact (being assumed by you here): garnering a large amount of attention early on is counter to the goal of a player who is scum
in which of these situations will mastin draw more NEGATIVE attention - when he plays to his self-made meta, or when he is quiet and out of the limelight in the early game?
therefore, is it really safe to say the fact that he is playing to his meta of inane psychobabble makes him more likely to be town? the answer is no. mastin has built himself a meta prison wherein he must act this way no matter his alignment, therefore him acting this way tells us nothing about it. it is the actual content of what he is saying which is important, not simply the fact that he's saying so much of it as usual.

and in this case the content indicates he is scum. please proceed with helping me lynch him.

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let me quickly quash the idea that this:

It's the perfect scum claim, which is why I will be keeping an eye on Khan.

is true, with regards to the miller claim, especially in this game.

claiming miller as scum on day one is a gambit that may work on occasion, but more often backfires horribly. yes you preemptively explain any guilty votes on you, and yes you may even get people thinking you are cleared town for making the right move as a miller, but these two facts alone will not by a long shot win the game for your team, because once you have claimed miller the following things become true:
1) you are locked into that claim. as scum, this means you will not have the option of doing any of the following things: counterclaiming a power role in lylo, fakeclaiming an investigative/protective role with a false guilty/protect, adapting to a changing game environment such as discovering that the setup may be all vanilla, etc. there are many ways for you to find yourself in a situation several game days later where you are simply fucked because you locked yourself out of the right strategic move as scum.
2) no matter how your claim plays out, there is just no freaking way you're living to endgame. one of two things will happen - a vigilante will either not believe you or have no better idea who to shoot and will take the safest vigilante shot in the history of the game of mafia, the claimed miller, or an opposing scumteam/sk will come to the point where they need to start killing semi-cleared players because cleared players are the scum's SINGLE WORST NIGHTMARE and they will end up killing you.

therefore we are never, ever lynching kublai khan, and it doesn't even matter if i'm right and he's in fact town or i'm wrong and he's fakeclaiming scum because the problem will work itself out long before the endgame. continuing to waste time discussing whether or not you believe khan's claim, or especially considering him as a lynch candidate, will be viewed as scummy with extreme prejudice.

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hayker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Have_your_ ... eat_it_too

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I asked basically the same thing. It's vital for Kise to answer the question. Ask rofl on the subject of:
Softclaims.
Or take a look at Lynch all Lurkers.

woah there. do not try to involve me in your rolefishing.

softlclaims brought on by pressure = scummy = need a fullclaim

possible breadcrumb = SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN MENTIONED SPECIFICALLY = DO NOT FULLCLAIM OR CONFIRM OR DENY A KILLING ROLE OR ANY OTHER KIND OF ROLE SERIOUSLY DON'T DO IT

mastin's attempt to 1) pull a fullclaim out and 2) attach my name to drawing out said fullclaim is scummy in the extreme

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Tunneling so early in the game is anti-town. I wouldn't say it's scummy, but there's no denying it isn't pro-town to do.

earlier in this very post you made reference to lynch all lurkers mafia, and appealed to me as an authority, in making a (ill-conceived) point. but now your memory seems to very selective, as you are failing to take into account the same game, lynch all lurkers, where i did the exact same thing, as town, to zwetschenwasser, who flipped scum, starting on page 2.

so yes, i do in fact deny that it is not pro-town, and counter with the above evidence. check.

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lynch all lurkers even includes a spot on scumpartner call without explaining my reasons, which you should also have been intimately aware of since you were reading the game as a replacement onto the scumteam. so that just makes you attempting to brush off a similar statement from me regarding a mastin-fallen angel pairing seem even more hollow.

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i'm getting the feeling that people are posting without having actually read the entire thread. for reference, this post is very important, and if you are still discussing kublai khan right now i would like you to read it and then explain why you think its still in the town's best interest to spend time and energy debating the miller claim.

and hi zazie!

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mastin, tell me how many people i have to be suspicious of before i'm no longer "tunneling" on each and every one of them? because you just went down my various and changing suspicions throughout the later parts of lynch all lurkers and labeled each of them as individually tunneling. i would say that being vocally suspicious of more than one person and pursuing cases on these people all at once is in fact the exact opposite of tunneling.

my point in bringing up one example of me focusing ("tunneling") on a player and being right is that the benefit to the town of not being convinced to lay off of that player despite shouts of "omg rofl is tunneling" was a successful scum lynch. sure, it is possible for me or anyone else to be wrong, but if i see continued evidence that you are scum (which i do) i will continue to present it and will not be dissuaded simply by you or anyone else telling me to stop with the tunnel-vision and i will not be dissuaded by you stating that your own defense is valid and therefore i should back off.

i'll respond to other individual points later.

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pretty sure faraday is town at this point

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pretty sure faraday is town at this point

can i ask why

gut read

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urg god damn it mastin i really don't think every individual clause of every sentence needs to be quoted separately and responded to. i'm about to retreat into my "don't explain anything i'm thinking" shell and respond to things only with votes and lists of who i'm willing to lynch.

speaking of lists of who i'm willing to lynch:
mastin
fallen angel
hayker
mafiamann

lets make it happen

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i see that the johnny rotten wagon has surpassed the mastin wagon. i have been far from the internet these past two dozen plus hours. hayker, could you explain why i should be voting for johnny rotten instead of mastin in five or less short, salient points?

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unvote, vote: hayker

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unvote, vote: hayker

ok... anything else

no. watch your step or it could be you.

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i'm not lurking, i'm just really uninterested in posting

we're still not lynching the claimed miller, sorry zaz

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general malaise and apathy i would say

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unvote, vote: mastin

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a viable wagon on mastin was all i needed to come back to voting him

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i explained a long time ago exactly why we're not lynching khan. everyone who keeps trying to do so, please read the thread.

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for anyone who missed it the first time around, here is post 59 of this game:

let me quickly quash the idea that this:

It's the perfect scum claim, which is why I will be keeping an eye on Khan.

is true, with regards to the miller claim, especially in this game.

claiming miller as scum on day one is a gambit that may work on occasion, but more often backfires horribly. yes you preemptively explain any guilty votes on you, and yes you may even get people thinking you are cleared town for making the right move as a miller, but these two facts alone will not by a long shot win the game for your team, because once you have claimed miller the following things become true:
1) you are locked into that claim. as scum, this means you will not have the option of doing any of the following things: counterclaiming a power role in lylo, fakeclaiming an investigative/protective role with a false guilty/protect, adapting to a changing game environment such as discovering that the setup may be all vanilla, etc. there are many ways for you to find yourself in a situation several game days later where you are simply fucked because you locked yourself out of the right strategic move as scum.
2) no matter how your claim plays out, there is just no freaking way you're living to endgame. one of two things will happen - a vigilante will either not believe you or have no better idea who to shoot and will take the safest vigilante shot in the history of the game of mafia, the claimed miller, or an opposing scumteam/sk will come to the point where they need to start killing semi-cleared players because cleared players are the scum's SINGLE WORST NIGHTMARE and they will end up killing you.

therefore we are never, ever lynching kublai khan, and it doesn't even matter if i'm right and he's in fact town or i'm wrong and he's fakeclaiming scum because the problem will work itself out long before the endgame. continuing to waste time discussing whether or not you believe khan's claim, or especially considering him as a lynch candidate, will be viewed as scummy with extreme prejudice.

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vp baltar wins the thread. lynch mastin plox.

(while we're on the subject of random meaningless meta related comments, i was in amnesiac mafia where baltar was scum, and i think he's town here)

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hey faraday, why aren't you voting for mastin?

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unvote, vote: mafiamann

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i will do some reading soon. i'm pretty sure my positions on anything important are already clear.

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oh look, someone who was mindlessly pushing a khan wagon flipped scum. i am in no way surprised. now can we stop all discussion of ever lynching khan, finally?

vote: hayker

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Hello. Who's scum?

hayker. probably mastin, but he claimed roleblocker or something. keep in mind i've barely been reading the thread. regardless, i'm still right.

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mufasa's neighbor claiming would be a mistake at this point

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blah blah blah lynch hayker

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Hayker: Your only hope is to convince roflcopter that someone else is scummier than you are.

speaking of lists of who i'm willing to lynch:
mastin
fallen angel
hayker
mafiamann

lets make it happen

So roflcopter, how are you doing on that list?

we're getting there

unvote, vote: mastin

that last post is the nail in the coffin. you are scum - with zazie, right?

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konowa / mufasa - likely vig or sk kill

elvis / zazier - obv cerulean kill

sotty / kise - obv vermillion kill

all other conspiracy theories need not apply

calling the now dead scum pro town looking is r-tarded. stop trying to continue pushing zazie's SCUM DRIVEN AGENDA of getting khan lynched. it will not happen.

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can we lynch mastin now? he's just going to continue trying to use his fake rb claim to spin farfetched theories and try to score mislynches with them.

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mastin continues to insist that with three kill revealed kill types and three kills a night, there is a fourth missing killing coming from one of the mafias and there must be two vig/sks, simply because he's a claimed roleblocker.

though the entertainment value is high, i'm tired of wading through the rest of his fluff to find the obvious bullshit.

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kmd readily admits mastin is likely scum but would still rather start a counterwagon. interesting tactic.

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so far your case on me is uninspiring

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in the likely event that i die before kmd, remember this event when mastin flips scum - it exponentially effects the likelihood of them being a scumteam

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so far your case on me is uninspiring

Elaborate.

i remember nothing of it beyond "he lurked."

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Rofl, more organized version of my case that I found by viewing my own posts:
-lurked

true

-only went after easy targets

false

-predetermined who was votable a little early

your opinion

-Declared Khan town on next to nothing, very early in the game

wrong

-buddies to Khan by giving him and award for "knowing what to do".

wrong

-Wrong on Mastin's vote. He called it OMGUS, not a policy miller vote.

wrong

-Takes the easy Mastin vote, apparently knowing his meta

wrong

-Comment on the NK

what about it

-threatened to vote MM over asking for reasons for your vote

what about it

my comments in bold. this still looks like a lurker hunt when you could be going after mastin, who you've already admitted you find scummy.

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Rofl, more organized version of my case that I found by viewing my own posts:
-lurked

true

-only went after easy targets

false

-predetermined who was votable a little early

your opinion

-Declared Khan town on next to nothing, very early in the game

wrong

-buddies to Khan by giving him and award for "knowing what to do".

wrong

-Wrong on Mastin's vote. He called it OMGUS, not a policy miller vote.

wrong

-Takes the easy Mastin vote, apparently knowing his meta

wrong

-Comment on the NK

what about it

-threatened to vote MM over asking for reasons for your vote

what about it

my comments in bold. this still looks like a lurker hunt when you could be going after mastin, who you've already admitted you find scummy.

Care to elaborate on the points that you didn't say were true?

sure, just pretend those points are numbered

1 is true, i lurked
2 is false, my targets weren't "easy" they were scummy. and you can hardly call going after hayker and mastin easy now that kmd is riding my case about it. almost makes them seem like they're all connected.
3 is completely subjective. "a little early" is a pile of crap when it comes to calling something scummy. it is 100% kmd's opinion, not fact.
4 again with the "early in the game" bullshit. and i didn't declare him town on "next to nothing," i gave a very detailed explanation for why i was declaring him town.
5 kmd seems to be simultaneously arguing that i shouldn't have declared khan town, while saying that i'm buddying to him, an action which would only be scummy if

khan is town

. pick a side ass hat.
6 actually i don't even remember what this one is referring to in particular, but its obviously a backhanded defense of mastin again. mastin was doing exactly what zazie was doing yesterday, going after the claimed miller and ignoring most everything else. look what zazie flipped.
7 again, what about it?
8 again, what about it?

so there you go. now lets all sing kumbaya together while we lynch mastin.

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i have this theory about the game of mafia. the town wins not by identifying all the scum, but by identifying enough town to drown the scum in confirmations. if a large enough proportion of the town agrees on one player being town, the scum are forced to deal with that player in a way they would deal with a cop-cleared player. this is why scum always fight so hard against people agreeing with one another over who is town, and why they will always argue against clearing someone. its like a supertell.

3-people can agree or disagree with opinions, no?

people are free to disagree, but you listing what is a difference in our opinions as a reason for why i'm scum is foolhardy

4-Still way too early to say he's gotta be town. And Zazie would distance knowing that no one else is agreeing. I do think Khan is town, but he is FAR from being confirmed in any way like you are treating him.

see the above theory, and again you're using your opinion like its a fact, and like it makes me scummy for not agreeing with you about it

5-Or he could be scum, but not with you. Learn the sides "ass hat".

he's town.

6-But your vote at the time looked more like a playstyle vote.

explain please

7-It's scummy
8-It's scummy

prove please

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just to repeat, if mastin is scum, kmd is scum with him

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Commenting on the NK is almost a subconscious "I have no idea what happened" after knowing that you (or your buddies) submitted that kill.

or its a "someone who was doing something i said all along was scummy (policy voting the claimed miller) turned out to be scum" comment. but confirmation bias seems to be your friend today.

Threatening MM wasn't productive at all.

and something that turned out to be unproductive is scummy why exactly?

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I was referring to the EK kill.

then you are seriously reaching for any little thing i've done to call scummy. ek and i have a friendly relationship. i bemoaned the fact that my friend had been killed night zero and i would not get the opportunity to play with her.

I don't see how you can honestly think it's not scummy to threaten someone to vote how you want. If I were to say "Wicked, I'm voting you if you don't vote rofl in your next post", would that not be scummy?

i don't recall ever trying to badger mafiamann into voting with me, but if i did, he and you and everyone else should grow a pair and get over it.

oh, and you should be voting for mastin. hop on that.

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rofl, at this point, do you feel ckool is scum or town?

having just skimmed his contribution, scum. if this mastin wagon doesn't work out i'll switch, but mastin is a higher priority. he's got the rb claim shenanigans that he's continuing to push crap theories based on.

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yeah mastin and ckool are both probably scum, but mastin is worlds more likely to be a mafia power role

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I would tend to agree with that theory, but is it worth risking a potential town PR this early in the game?

yes. his continued insistence that he's blocked some fantasy fourth kill source both nights means that a) he's almost certainly not town and b) if he is town, he's only going to detrimentally lead us on wild goose chases

Or you could let townies think for themselves.

i prefer badgering scum into voting for their partners, as i'm attempting to do to you right now.

as for why you should vote mastin, because he's probably scum, as you've also mentioned quite a few times over the course of the last few pages in a sad little attempt to look like you actually suspect him, and because if he is scum he's a scum power role

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so how many points that you originally listed against me have you conceded now? we're getting closer and closer to the only point being lurking.

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outguessing the mod is normally a bad idea, but i feel it is wise to point out that we already have a dead town jailkeeper (roleblocker + doctor), so an additional town roleblocker becomes much less likely

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kmd, how important do you consider bandwagoning as town?

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kmd, how important do you consider bandwagoning as town?

Pretty important. Can't lynch without it.

and would you say you rate ckool and myself as equally scummy? that was the impression i got when you said you'd only lynch mastin if you couldn't lynch ckool or me.

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is the disparity in our likeliness of being scum on your personal scale of more value than creating a 3 person wagon instead of a 2 person wagon?

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The point about the JK is a decent one...though I wouldn't have expected Mafia 91 to have three town cops either, but it did.

varying cop sanities make multiple cops a much more common occurance than multiples of other roles. however, like i said, outguessing the mod is quickly entering bad idea territory, the point about jailkeeper overlapping roleblocker is just one more small point against mastin's claim.

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is the disparity in our likeliness of being scum on your personal scale of more value than creating a 3 person wagon instead of a 2 person wagon?

You're asking me to vote ckool. If I start to think ckool's lynch is more likely than yours, I'll switch. A one vote difference won't do it for me.

your switch would immediately make a ckool lynch more likely than mine. two racing wagons of two votes each stalls the game.

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of course the best case scenario is still you joining the mastin wagon instead

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i'm still paranoid about people attempting to save mastin. however, i'm virtually positive baltar is town so his attempt to get the alternative wagon going isn't as unsettling as kmd's.

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ha

Kise, Emerald Townie - Slaughtered Night One

it means he's not paying attention and not part of the group whose kill m.o. is "slaughtered"

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i have actually never seen a more literal appeal to emotion

unvote, vote: ckool

If you try to use this as a reason for voting, then I don't like this. I wouldn't vote anyone purely because someone else said so, without a solid case which I believed in.
It is possible for townies to think that others are pro-town and thus be unwilling to vote for them.

sure its possible for townies to find someone else pro town, but kmd never said he finds mastin pro town, rather he said he finds him scummy, possibly scummy enough to lynch. in this instance, your point fails.

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unvote, vote: mastin

ckool: if mastin flips scum you should kill kmd tonight, if he flips town you should kill me

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unvote, vote: mastin

ckool: if mastin flips scum you should kill kmd tonight, if he flips town you should kill me

Wait what?

i'm going to end up getting lynched anyway, better to vig me and let the town move on

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The thing with me asking people for suggestions, it's like a second lynch, and since a lynch is the town's most powerful weapons...

its also a lot more efficient than a real lynch

seriously, we lynch mastin today

if he's scum --> shoot kmd

if he's town --> shoot roflcopter

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I just now realized that I'm probably going to get killed without the help of a doctor...

that is a side effect of claiming a power role. on the bright side you get one last chance to go out helping the town.

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empking's alt is a good person to vig if ckool lives to vig again tomorrow

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namttam, i refuse to answer stupid questions. i have explained in very great detail already why it is incorrect to lynch this particular claimed miller. if you can't figure out for yourself that there's an enormous difference in the circumstances surrounding mastin and kublai khan, its time to find a new hobby.

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namttam and empking's alt also run a decent chance of being mastin scumpartners

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i'm confident enough in mastin being scum to ignore the alternative

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and now i can tally three games where people try to lynch me for being right

i really wish ckool had shot kmd last night

vote: kmd

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kmd/hayker - what is your best guess for how many members there are of each scumteam?

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xyl, who do you think is vermillion mafia

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If Rofl was scum with Mastin, it would make sense for him to say shoot me if Mastin is scum and shoot him if Mastin is town. Just sayin'.

and now you're trying to lynch me FOR being right. pathetic, really.

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yeah ok, look at the who was dead after night 0. a member of the cerulean mafia (doctor no less), meaning if there are three members of each scumteam then there were only two left already, mastin and whoever his partner is.

do you

really

think that someone would bus their only remaining scumpartner, another mafia power role, from the getgo on day one with two other kill sources remaining?

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hey kmd, who do you think vp baltar investigated between days one and two?

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btw, now that we've had members of both scumteams trying their hardest to get khan lynched, can we finally agree that the guy is town and stop even entertaining the notion that we'll ever lynch him, ever? kthx

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and a four player scum team with (at least) two mafia power roles is extremely unlikely, to say the least. observe where kmd and hayker both readily accepted that it "must" be so because i'm obviously scum with mastin

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mastin may very well have been investigated by johnny, but that was night 0. i'm interested in who baltar investigated after the mafiamann lynch. i have my ideas, but i want to see what kmd thinks.

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actually, i suspect kmd is cerulean and hayker is vermillion, so

unvote, vote: hayker

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Actually rofl, I completly agree with you there for a change.

Anyways, though the question was not directed at me, Mastin was obviously investigated by johnny rotten I believe.

actually no, pretty sure baltar would have been eager to help lynch mastin d2 if he had a guilty on him, not starting counterwagons. so there's two potential innocent investigations to prize out of baltar/johnny rotten's posts.

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having just skimmed namtamm in iso, kmd may get a reprieve. i'm pretty sure 3 members per team is all that makes sense, and namtamm is literally

screaming

mastin-scumpartner.

and kmd, if you think baltar had a guilty on mastin, why would he vote someone other than mastin when the mastin wagon reignited at the end of yesterday?

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actually, i suspect kmd is cerulean and hayker is vermillion, so

unvote, vote: hayker

What makes you think this?

i think there are three members of each team, meaning only one cerulean left. i also think that the vermillion mafia currently want to look like they're hunting for mastin's scumpartner, but they also want to be wrong so they can continue hunting for mastin' scumpartner in the future and continue ignoring the vermillion mafia. trying to lynch me on the basis of thinking i'm mastin's scumpartner fits this framework. also, i already thought hayker was scummy, and if kmd (or namtamm) are the last cerulean, that only leaves vermillion for hayker to be.

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the only person who's intentions i think were honest in wifoming himself about me-mastin was khan. i'm betting that the fact that he did so is what opened the floodgates of opportunism.

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actually, i suspect kmd is cerulean and hayker is vermillion, so

unvote, vote: hayker

What makes you think this?

i think there are three members of each team, meaning only one cerulean left. i also think that the vermillion mafia currently want to look like they're hunting for mastin's scumpartner, but they also want to be wrong so they can continue hunting for mastin' scumpartner in the future and continue ignoring the vermillion mafia. trying to lynch me on the basis of thinking i'm mastin's scumpartner fits this framework. also, i already thought hayker was scummy, and if kmd (or namtamm) are the last cerulean, that only leaves vermillion for hayker to be.

So if this truly is what the Vermillions are doing, then do you think it would actually benefit them to try to hunt for the last Cerulean now than later? Why?

i think they're intentionally getting it wrong now, so that after the first attempted cerulean lynch they can move on to suspect number two (or three, or whatever). to see it this way, of course, it helps that i know i'm not mafia. but you get the idea.

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i suspect thats also why the obv vermillion nightkill hit ckool instead of hunting for opposing mafia. they need to save the opposing mafia now so they can look like they're honestly scumhunting in the day time.

are you beginning to see who my sneaking suspicion is of another vermillion mafia, beyond hayker?

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actually, i suspect kmd is cerulean and hayker is vermillion, so

unvote, vote: hayker

What makes you think this?

i think there are three members of each team, meaning only one cerulean left. i also think that the vermillion mafia currently want to look like they're hunting for mastin's scumpartner, but they also want to be wrong so they can continue hunting for mastin' scumpartner in the future and continue ignoring the vermillion mafia. trying to lynch me on the basis of thinking i'm mastin's scumpartner fits this framework. also, i already thought hayker was scummy, and if kmd (or namtamm) are the last cerulean, that only leaves vermillion for hayker to be.

So if this truly is what the Vermillions are doing, then do you think it would actually benefit them to try to hunt for the last Cerulean now than later? Why?

Stop asking for advice on how to play as scum.

stop shutting down a useful line of discussion

[roflcopter]

1. xyl (he's targeting you as cerulean, ignoring vermillion altogether, thus my earlier q to him of "who's vermillion").

2. because the idea that i bussed my only remaining partner out of the gate on day one is patently absurd. see the order of events after this day started - khan muses on the possibility, faraday shuts him down with the obv logic of "no thats just dumb," hayker comes along and picks up the rofl-mastin idea and runs with it, kmd swoops in to encourage hayker in any way that he can.

3. i think the last cerulean is either kmd, in which case he's just fanning flames wherever he can away from himself, or its namtamm, who hasn't even posted yet today. but yet, eventually the last cerulean is going to need to scumhunt for vermillion mafia to stay alive.

[roflcopter]

I'm confused as to how it makes sense for two groups of three makes for sense than 2 groups of 4.

two groups of 3 at this ratio
6/18

We had 1 vig. That can be up to 3 kills a night. Potentially, eveyr night 2/3 of the mafia could die. If you include one lynch a day, an entire mafia could have been eliminated day 1. Now that's unliekly, but why make a setup that has potential to screw over a team day 1. I sincerly doubt the 3 member mafi idea.

you're not accounting for the fact that the cerulean mafia has been proven to have had two mafia power roles that could prevent kills. chances are the vermillion mafia has an equal amount of power.

[roflcopter]

i don't like wicked for cerulean

[roflcopter]

i don't like wicked for cerulean

Vermillion, then?

maybe. but there are better suspects imo. and i don't just mean you.

I think I should just hunt scum and leave the cerulean/vermillion speculation to other people.

do me a favor and focus on people with connections to zazie. i get the feeling that the remains of mastin's team are not long for this world whether they get lynched today or not. whoever it is lies in a very small pool of people, all of whom will most likely be dead before any potential endgame scenario.

[roflcopter]

If Mastin had made an effort to address the DAY 1 problems with his roleclaim, I'd believe that his remaining partner(s) might have tried to coach him. Since Mastin didn't, I think it's much more likely that his remaining partner(s) made plans to bus the fuck out of him.

you're disregarding the fact that i was trying to lynch mastin long before his roleblocker claim on day one

Uh, no one was suggesting to lynch me today.

and i'm making sure no one will ever again. you're the closest thing we have to confirmed town. i have my ideas about at least one of baltar's investigations, but its far from certainty.

Well, I do agree with you about the point that the Vermillion Mafia are likely aiming to lynch you. But the general OMGUS attitude towards anyone suspecting you and the ignoring of the main point against you isn't really helping me see you as town.

i believe i've demonstrated my reason for suspecting those who are trying to paint me as mastin's scumpartner.

[roflcopter]

@rofl - Would you rather lynch somebody who you think is a Cerulean, or somebody who you think is a Vermillion?

today i would rather hit vermillion. it benefits the town if we leave the last cerulean alive to potentially crosskill vermillion. we don't want to clear the board of all kill sources save a scumteam which is already in the stronger position than their rival scumteam. chances are very good that vermillion as one or two power roles left, and cerulean has none.

[roflcopter]

Yes, I acknowledge that. However, you have yet to address your scummy action of attempting to direct the vig kill.

its simple - i was/am confident enough in my read of a mastin-kmd scumteam to suggest vigging kmd if mastin flipped scum. a revealed vig should be directed by the town anyway, and no one else was stepping up for making their opinion known one way or the other. as for why i would have wanted myself lynched if i were wrong, it was because i knew i would have become an immediate mislynch, and the aim there was to save the town the trouble.

We should aim to get a role-claim from roflcopter today. There's something fishy about him.

this is a stupid plan. see kmd sheep onto it immediately for evidence.

[roflcopter]

ebwop - as for my i wanted myself vigged* if i were wrong

i think you got the idea

[roflcopter]

We should aim to get a role-claim from roflcopter today. There's something fishy about him.

this is a stupid plan. see kmd sheep onto it immediately for evidence.

Yeah, there's no way I thought you were scum before Khan said you were, right?

there's no way you had the balls to vote me before he said a claim should be forced, thats for sure. ckool really should have vigged you.

[roflcopter]

the fact that i had put forward my version of how things should go down regarding the vig doesn't mean nobody else could have too.

You were willing to die yesterday, yet today you don't want to reveal your role? Seems inconsistent.

yesterday it was unknown whether or not i was right about mastin, and if i were wrong i would have been easy lynchbait - thats a good person to have vigged. that fact that i wasn't wrong means i'm no longer willing to die. no inconsisitency.

why do you think "forcing a claim" out of me is a good idea? how does that benefit the town?

same question to kmd, who agreed like a little lap dog.

[roflcopter]

unvote, vote: mastin

ckool: if mastin flips scum you should kill kmd tonight, if he flips town you should kill me

Works for me even at the risk that Mastin actually is scum. It's just one more way that my top suspect can be eliminated.

Unvote, Vote Mastin

I think we can rule out Kmd as Cerulean scum here.

Still - Kmd, why did you think Mastin was so town that you would agree to be vigged if he wasn't?

what other course of action did kmd have that would not have looked scummy as fuck?

[roflcopter]

We should aim to get a role-claim from roflcopter today. There's something fishy about him.

this is a stupid plan. see kmd sheep onto it immediately for evidence.

Yeah, there's no way I thought you were scum before Khan said you were, right?

there's no way you had the balls to vote me before he said a claim should be forced, thats for sure. ckool really should have vigged you.

Because I didn't vote you yesterday at all, right?

the fact that you voted me yesterday is irrelevant to this discussion. we're talking about today, and today is a whole new ballgame. today you didn't vote me until khan suggeted the town force a claim. today all you did was encourage hayker to attack me.

[roflcopter]

your opinion didn't change despite the fact that the situation clearly has?

[roflcopter]

so kmd, who's scum?

[roflcopter]

i think i've been forgetting something. did mastin ever claim to have blocked vp baltar? i know baltar was part of that fantasy scumteam he was trying to pitch us. if he was blocked by mastin that explains why its been so hard to find evidence of investigation results in his posts.

[roflcopter]

the idea that i would offer to be vigged as non-mastin-team scum if mastin flipped town without being 110% sure mastin was scum is absurd

[roflcopter]

kmd, why are you so sure hayker is town?

[roflcopter]

kmd, why are you so sure hayker is town?

Gut read and nothing to suggest otherwise.

Btw, I expect you or someone else to call Hayker and I scumbuddies soon. If I was scum, that's probably who I'd be most connected to.

i still think you're more likely to be mastin's last scumbuddy, but we'll wait and see what happens with hayker. you're certainly fitting my expected behavior for hayker's scumpartner, especially if he's a scum pr, given that there's probably only two vermillions left.

[roflcopter]

to answer the question (again) of which team i think we should be trying to lynch today, i say we aim for vermillion.

the remaining cerulean mafia, if they know what they're doing, will be trying to shoot vermillion mafia tonight, not town. so they'll either succeed in killing a scum (yay for town!) or they'll kill someone who probably would have ended up mislynched anyway (still helping town). and since the suspect list for cerulean mafia is not very large, and the evidence is most certainly available between the mastin wagon's days 1 and 2, the town can easily come back to finding cerulean later and mop it up.

[roflcopter]

if hayker flips scum i'm looking at xylscum partner. kmd is just being too blatant.

namtamm-molestargazer is another pair i have my eye on.

faraday and ckd are both town

[roflcopter]

you don't get to question town reads while you stick to yours on hayker for reasons you fail to even remember

[roflcopter]

sounds like its time for you to go back and either figure out where and why you decided he was town or reevaluate your position

[roflcopter]

i really don't like the way xyl is pushing his case on wicked. he's not telling us what is scummy about the guy, he's telling everyone else to go do the work themselves.

and this:

Is anyone willing to read Wickedestjr's posts in iso and go on record as saying they are

not

scummy?

is

really

underhanded. you're trying to make other people feel like it makes them look guilty to not find wicked scummy.

you are also still suffering from a severe case of selective scumhunting

unvote, vote: xyl

hayker needs a partnerclaim. otherwise mason is just way too good a fakeclaim for scum. masons only exist to be confirmable townies anyway, so its time to confirm some townies. and if he is scum fakeclaiming mason, this is where we either force his scumbuddy to step up or we lynch him.

(i pretty much believe his claim because faking mason with another killing group still out there would be suicide as scum, but we still need that partner claim just in case, and because if hayker dies without ever having partnerclaimed it leaves the door open for scum to counterclaim his partner somewhere down the line at lylo)

[roflcopter]

xyl would not have bussed mastin. he's vermillion or he's town.

he's vermillion.

[roflcopter]

kmd, why did you just vote nam instead of xyl?

[roflcopter]

neighbor and mason are seperate roles. mason is alignment confirmed, neighbor is not.

[roflcopter]

btw, now that wicked is confirmed town, xyl's little "everyone should see why wicked is so scummy" song and dance looks even worse.

pile on those votes guys.

[roflcopter]

In which case - Hayker, can you confirm you are in fact Mason and not a neighbour?

you sir are beating a dead horse. rolename and alignment confirmation was vouched for by hayker shortly after his claim.

[roflcopter]

kmd, what criteria are you using to order your suspicion list.

[roflcopter]

hey xyl, who's more likely to be vermillion mafia, namtamm or kmd?

[roflcopter]

we are NOT testlynching a mason

[roflcopter]

kmd, what criteria are you using to order your suspicion list.

Players who I think are more likely to be scum go higher on the list.

you are not a colossal idiot, so stop acting like one. you utterly failed to actually answer my question, and you know it.

[roflcopter]

can we lynch mastin now? he's just going to continue trying to use his fake rb claim to spin farfetched theories and try to score mislynches with them.

So first you are voting Hayker, then you suddenly switch your vote over to Mastin, and now you are extremely eager to lynch him without even hearing a response from him?

FoS: rofl

That's pretty normal for roflcopter.

Possible Wickedestjr/Mastin scumbuddy tell here.

vote: Wickedestjr

the only basis provided for voting wicked is a "possible wicked/mastin scumbuddy tell." no denying that this is selective scumhunting at its finest.

xyl, who do you think is vermillion mafia

I thought Mastin was vermillion mafia. I need to do some reading.

stalling when called out to actually look for vermillion mafia instead of mastin's scumpartner

having just skimmed namtamm in iso, kmd may get a reprieve. i'm pretty sure 3 members per team is all that makes sense, and namtamm is literally

screaming

mastin-scumpartner.

and kmd, if you think baltar had a guilty on mastin, why would he vote someone other than mastin when the mastin wagon reignited at the end of yesterday?

I'd be willing to go for Namttam. His posts bothered me yesterday, I'll take a look and see if I can remember why.

but apparently willing to follow me on someone i find to be a likely mastin scumparner. let me just say again - selective scumhunting

1. xyl (he's targeting you as cerulean, ignoring vermillion altogether, thus my earlier q to him of "who's vermillion").

the emoticon defense - i am unmoved. this may or may not qualify as an appeal to emotion. it certainly qualifies as xyl not actually defending himself against the point i made.

@Hayker: Stop making posts like 185 & 186. It's bad enough that ZazieR and Mastin post mostly nonsense posts. Don't emulate them.

I saw Zazie comment on this quote as well, but unfortunately I could not find where the actual post was. But anyway, I don't really like this comment. First of all: Hayker didn't make post 186, so your only real evidence for this complaint is post 185 unless you made a mistake and can identify the real post you were talking about. Second of all: It has already been discussed that Mastin and Zaz have been contributing to the scum hunting. While they may post a lot of nonsense, I find that a majority of the content in their posts is helping the game roll along. Third of all: What do you find to be nonsense in Hayker's posts?


I agree that I don't think JR's vote for Mastin is a pretty great one. It doesn't have a very good reason, and like I said before, a majority of the content in Mastin's posts contain scum hunting contribution.

Seems like Wickedestjr is the last Cerulean, or completely bonkers.

Still hunting Vermillion. Namttam looks promising.

still not providing a real reason for his wicked vote, rather he gives us a version of the classic "he's either scum or he's stupid," which is a classic in the sense that scum have been using that to pre-emptively excuse their mislynches since the dawn of time.
and xyl is also still stalling on the vermillion front

Why do you think Namttam is Vermillion?

If Namttam is scum and you're Cerulean, that would make Namttam Vermillion. Duh.

so far, the only reason xyl has voiced for even suspecting namtamm is agreement with my proposal that namtamm looks connected to mastin (cerulean), yet here he flips namtamm to his vermillion column without ever explaining anything else that makes nam scummy, simply because he's confirmation-biasing wicked as absolutely cerulean.

i don't like wicked for cerulean

Vermillion, then?

no, nice try

I think I should just hunt scum and leave the cerulean/vermillion speculation to other people.

by now it seems xyl has realized he can't convincingly hunt vermillion, so he makes a lame excuse to continue his selective scumhunting ways. xyl is an

extremely

experienced mafia player, so he should know as well as anyone that hunting for vermillion ought to be as simple as reading for connections with zazie, but instead he's playing stupid.

The lack of support for lynching Wickedestjr makes me

note to self - emoticons = appeal to emotion
up to this point xyl has still given zero reason beyond a vague possibility of connection to mastin for a wicked wagon.

WickedestJr looks worse and worse the more he posts.

Care to elaborate? Your only reason for voting me so far was that you thought me and Mastin were scumbuddies. Sounds like scum going for an easy lynch.

Every post of yours is scummy. Anyone who views you in iso should see it.

this is a clever way of saying "if you don't agree with me you're stupid. you're not stupid are you?"

Is anyone willing to read Wickedestjr's posts in iso and go on record as saying they are

not

scummy?

this is the same thing but worse

btw, now that wicked is confirmed town, xyl's little "everyone should see why wicked is so scummy" song and dance looks even worse.

pile on those votes guys.

Are you even considering the possibility that I might be town

have you even considered the possibility of actually defending yourself? so far all i've gotten from you is a sad face.

hey xyl, who's more likely to be vermillion mafia, namtamm or kmd?

I stopped trying to figure out who is in which mafia a while back

your excuses, they just don't cut it

I think people who are deciding which class of scum to lynch are really pushing their own ability to find scum. Either that or they're just a hell of a lot better than me at it. If I was sure that the person I was targeting was scum I'd lynch them, regardless of which faction they belong to.

QFT

look, guys - we have dead scum from both scumteams. searching for a specific set of scum is as simple as looking at connections to one or the other dead scum, or doing the reverse.
for example, i find xyl extremely scummy (see above), but i find it to be very unlikely that he would have bussed mastin. therefore xyl is scum, but not with mastin. therefore xyl is vermillion. tada! i decided which class of scum he is. not that hard.

you may all now feel free to congratulate me and join this bandwagon.

[roflcopter]

this is just for anyone who is unfamiliar with the term selective scumhunting, though it should be pretty self-explanatory.

[roflcopter]

whether or not anyone is swallowing the whole masons / two pairs of neighbors thing, there are still multiple kill sources each night, and if hayker and wicked are scumbuddies then claiming masons like that was literally suicide. they will not live to endgame. the idea of testlynching one of them is ludicrous, and proposing it was extremely scummy (kmd).

[roflcopter]

curious rofl..scummier, Xyl or KMD?

can i have my cake and eat it too? my working theory right now is that they're scumpartners, and xyl is the mafia doctor.

[roflcopter]

living players:

Achilles - ??? uberlurker, more research needed
Lowell - leaning town, more research needed
curiouskarmadog - town
Kmd4390 -

scum

Xylthixlm -

scum

Faraday - town
Hayker - town (mason)
Kublai Khan - town (miller)
Namttam - most likely candidate for

cerulean scum

molestargazer - likely town (neighbor)
SerialClergyman - leaning town, more research needed
roflcopter - town
Wickedestjr - town (mason)

if there is a 4th neighbor, now would actually be a great time for that person to come forward and confirm mole's story.

[roflcopter]

As poster boy for the 'lets focus on one scum group' philosophy, how does this not apply to yourself even more?

i've explained already why its my opinion that we should be focusing on lynching vermillion instead of cerulean today, for strategic reasons. and i've also been completely transparent about who i think is cerulean (nam) even though i'm not currently trying to lynch that player. compare my play with xyl's. so far his only positions on who is vermillion have been a) namtamm bc wicked is cerulean and b) i'm too stupid to figure it out.

[roflcopter]

the more i look at it, the more ridiculous that suggestion to testlynch a mason becomes.

[roflcopter]

you're misunderstanding the application of this scumtell, i think. its useful when someone is avoiding the topic of one particular scumteam altogether (as xyl is). yes, i am focusing on

lynching

a member of one group exclusively

today

, but i am not focusing on that one group exclusively, and i have explained the strategic benefit to the town of lynching the group i am intent on lynching today.

additionally, in this instance, since i am focussed on lynching red scum today, if selective scumhunting were to be applied to me i would have to be blue scum, which would mean that i would have been bussing mastin from day one, despite the fact that a blue scum had already died night zero. i don't want to beat a dead horse over how outlandish that theory was.

[roflcopter]

if there is a 4th neighbor, now would actually be a great time for that person to come forward and confirm mole's story.

QFT

is that really all you saw fit to respond to?

[roflcopter]

kublai khan and his case of confirmation bias are no longer being responded to.

[roflcopter]

lynch xyl now kthx

[roflcopter]

kublai khan and his case of confirmation bias are no longer being responded to.

Did that pot just call me black?

despite that fact that its already been discussed and laid to rest by everyone else interested in discussing the possibility, you continue to be hyperfocused on interpreting everything i say as meaning i am cerulean mafia.

apparently your secondary focus is on undermining any town read that isn't based on a roleclaim.

so yeah, i'm ignoring you because everything you're doing is actively hurting the town.

[roflcopter]

lynch xyl now kthx

No seriously, explain why you think this is inconsistent with my town play.

not necessary. i've already laid out what makes you scum. you have presented no rebuttal, so i don't need to prove any further how this is inconsistent with your play as town.

[roflcopter]

you continue to

not respond to my case

.

you are trying to flip the burden of proof back to me, but i have already done my part. now i leave it to the rest of the cast to decide.

[roflcopter]

Your case is bullshit because you aren't even considering the possibility that I might be town as an option.

There, I responded to your case.

the possibility was considered, but i find the probability that you're scum to be much greater, and i find you to be the scummiest player period.

saying that i am not considering that you could be town is bullshit and you know it. this is how scumhunting works.

[roflcopter]

xyl, you're strawmanning my case against you. you've ignored the whole part about how your push against wicked was scummy.

[roflcopter]

khan: what is your opinion on xyl?

mole, sc, faraday: why is your current vote (or lack thereof) better than voting for xyl?

[roflcopter]

xyl, your apparent disdain for my suspicion of you notwithstanding, the wagon speaks for itself

[roflcopter]

Vote: Xyl

-He tried to lynch a player without even giving reasons.
-He is being lazy.
-He hasn't posted many opinions on other players.

rofl, do you think these points against me are correct?

the first point is correct but doesn't cover the whole reason why it was scummy.
the second point is bleh
the third point is true.

[roflcopter]

so roflcopter - did you think wickedestjr was scummy before the claim, or not?

not particularly. i found him less scummy because you were voting him, actually

[roflcopter]

i immediately found you scummy for starting the day by making a commentless vote based on your idea yesterday that wicked and mastin were linked. the fact that this vote was on wicked, who i didn't find particularly likely to be cerulean, made me less suspicious of him altogether, because i don't find you particularly likely to be cerulean either, and i didn't think you would be voting for your partner.

simple, really.

[roflcopter]

what i want to know, kmd, is why nam is a better lynch than xyl. give me something more than "gut."

[roflcopter]

kmd, that explanation fails hard, because xyl's little he's-red-no-he's-blue maneuver came

after

you decided nam deserved your vote more than xyl

why was nam more deserving of your vote than xyl WHEN YOU PLACED THE NAM VOTE

[roflcopter]

no, i understand the case on nam, i want you to go through your thought process when it came time to vote one or the other and explain why you chose nam

[roflcopter]

So, conclusions:
Vermilion is 2 of:

Wicked

Nam
Serial

Xyl

Cerulean is 1 of:
Lowell
Faraday
Molest
Xyl

Ok, Xyl fits as either I think. I still say he could have bussed as his vote was relatively late and Mastin was pretty much going to be lynched. Also, I'm removing Wicked. He's a mason with Hayker.

Vote Nam

you made a valid point against xyl yet still voted nam...

what makes you think nam could be vermillion but not cerulean?

[roflcopter]

fallen

- look again at 528, 535, and 537. Zazie lightly coaches fallen, fallen says "hey what gives", and zazie reminds him that they should be talking about ckool. Unlike zazie to behave this way, and do it so quickly.

remember everyone, fallen angel and xyl are the same person

[roflcopter]

i would do nam over lowell. i'm telling you though, xyl is teh scums.

[roflcopter]

Possible, but not probable.

I'd put heavy money on if we lynched up my list the game would end before we got anywhere near Xyl.

i'd put heavy money on the following being the scum:
xyl - vermillion mafia doctor
kmd - vermillion mafia roleblocker
nam - cerulean mafia goon

[roflcopter]

hey lowell, vote for xyl

[roflcopter]

hey xyl, referring to a game where you were town doesn't make you town in this game

[roflcopter]

Also, answer this:

Possible, but not probable.

I'd put heavy money on if we lynched up my list the game would end before we got anywhere near Xyl.

i'd put heavy money on the following being the scum:
xyl - vermillion mafia doctor
kmd - vermillion mafia roleblocker
nam - cerulean mafia goon

So... you think we have six town masons/neighbors and six scum? Seriously?

yes

[roflcopter]

hey xyl, referring to a game where you were town doesn't make you town in this game

Do you remember why you thought I was scum in WIH2?

you were sitting on your haunches not attacking anyone after being wrong some arbitrary number of times in a row

completely unrelated to why i'm attacking you in this game

trying to make me doubt my scum read on you now by referring to a game where my scum read on you was wrong rather than disproving anything i've said about you (which you haven't) just makes you look worse

[roflcopter]

neighbors are almost a detriment to the town. they certainly don't add anything to the town's basic power level. the entire town could be composes of neighbor pairs and i'd still think the setup was 3/3 scum teams.

[roflcopter]

i also fail to see the point of you pressing the issue of whether the setup is is 3/3 or 4/4, as you are scum in either scenario.

[roflcopter]

I thought I had addressed your case against me

It started with something about me being scum because I was selectively scumhunting because I wanted to lynch Wickedestjr instead of Hayker, as I recall

incorrect. you are entirely misrepresenting what i have said. try harder.

[roflcopter]

I thought I had addressed your case against me

It started with something about me being scum because I was selectively scumhunting because I wanted to lynch Wickedestjr instead of Hayker, as I recall

to show how blatantly incorrect this is, here are the main points i have presented against xyl, quoted again.

can we lynch mastin now? he's just going to continue trying to use his fake rb claim to spin farfetched theories and try to score mislynches with them.

So first you are voting Hayker, then you suddenly switch your vote over to Mastin, and now you are extremely eager to lynch him without even hearing a response from him?

FoS: rofl

That's pretty normal for roflcopter.

Possible Wickedestjr/Mastin scumbuddy tell here.

vote: Wickedestjr

the only basis provided for voting wicked is a "possible wicked/mastin scumbuddy tell." no denying that this is selective scumhunting at its finest.

xyl, who do you think is vermillion mafia

I thought Mastin was vermillion mafia. I need to do some reading.

stalling when called out to actually look for vermillion mafia instead of mastin's scumpartner

having just skimmed namtamm in iso, kmd may get a reprieve. i'm pretty sure 3 members per team is all that makes sense, and namtamm is literally

screaming

mastin-scumpartner.

and kmd, if you think baltar had a guilty on mastin, why would he vote someone other than mastin when the mastin wagon reignited at the end of yesterday?

I'd be willing to go for Namttam. His posts bothered me yesterday, I'll take a look and see if I can remember why.

but apparently willing to follow me on someone i find to be a likely mastin scumparner. let me just say again - selective scumhunting

1. xyl (he's targeting you as cerulean, ignoring vermillion altogether, thus my earlier q to him of "who's vermillion").

the emoticon defense - i am unmoved. this may or may not qualify as an appeal to emotion. it certainly qualifies as xyl not actually defending himself against the point i made.

@Hayker: Stop making posts like 185 & 186. It's bad enough that ZazieR and Mastin post mostly nonsense posts. Don't emulate them.

I saw Zazie comment on this quote as well, but unfortunately I could not find where the actual post was. But anyway, I don't really like this comment. First of all: Hayker didn't make post 186, so your only real evidence for this complaint is post 185 unless you made a mistake and can identify the real post you were talking about. Second of all: It has already been discussed that Mastin and Zaz have been contributing to the scum hunting. While they may post a lot of nonsense, I find that a majority of the content in their posts is helping the game roll along. Third of all: What do you find to be nonsense in Hayker's posts?


I agree that I don't think JR's vote for Mastin is a pretty great one. It doesn't have a very good reason, and like I said before, a majority of the content in Mastin's posts contain scum hunting contribution.

Seems like Wickedestjr is the last Cerulean, or completely bonkers.

Still hunting Vermillion. Namttam looks promising.

still not providing a real reason for his wicked vote, rather he gives us a version of the classic "he's either scum or he's stupid," which is a classic in the sense that scum have been using that to pre-emptively excuse their mislynches since the dawn of time.
and xyl is also still stalling on the vermillion front

Why do you think Namttam is Vermillion?

If Namttam is scum and you're Cerulean, that would make Namttam Vermillion. Duh.

so far, the only reason xyl has voiced for even suspecting namtamm is agreement with my proposal that namtamm looks connected to mastin (cerulean), yet here he flips namtamm to his vermillion column without ever explaining anything else that makes nam scummy, simply because he's confirmation-biasing wicked as absolutely cerulean.

i don't like wicked for cerulean

Vermillion, then?

no, nice try

I think I should just hunt scum and leave the cerulean/vermillion speculation to other people.

by now it seems xyl has realized he can't convincingly hunt vermillion, so he makes a lame excuse to continue his selective scumhunting ways. xyl is an

extremely

experienced mafia player, so he should know as well as anyone that hunting for vermillion ought to be as simple as reading for connections with zazie, but instead he's playing stupid.

The lack of support for lynching Wickedestjr makes me

note to self - emoticons = appeal to emotion
up to this point xyl has still given zero reason beyond a vague possibility of connection to mastin for a wicked wagon.

WickedestJr looks worse and worse the more he posts.

Care to elaborate? Your only reason for voting me so far was that you thought me and Mastin were scumbuddies. Sounds like scum going for an easy lynch.

Every post of yours is scummy. Anyone who views you in iso should see it.

this is a clever way of saying "if you don't agree with me you're stupid. you're not stupid are you?"

Is anyone willing to read Wickedestjr's posts in iso and go on record as saying they are

not

scummy?

this is the same thing but worse

btw, now that wicked is confirmed town, xyl's little "everyone should see why wicked is so scummy" song and dance looks even worse.

pile on those votes guys.

Are you even considering the possibility that I might be town

have you even considered the possibility of actually defending yourself? so far all i've gotten from you is a sad face.

hey xyl, who's more likely to be vermillion mafia, namtamm or kmd?

I stopped trying to figure out who is in which mafia a while back

your excuses, they just don't cut it

I think people who are deciding which class of scum to lynch are really pushing their own ability to find scum. Either that or they're just a hell of a lot better than me at it. If I was sure that the person I was targeting was scum I'd lynch them, regardless of which faction they belong to.

QFT

look, guys - we have dead scum from both scumteams. searching for a specific set of scum is as simple as looking at connections to one or the other dead scum, or doing the reverse.
for example, i find xyl extremely scummy (see above), but i find it to be very unlikely that he would have bussed mastin. therefore xyl is scum, but not with mastin. therefore xyl is vermillion. tada! i decided which class of scum he is. not that hard.

you may all now feel free to congratulate me and join this bandwagon.

you continue to

not respond to my case

.

you are trying to flip the burden of proof back to me, but i have already done my part. now i leave it to the rest of the cast to decide.

fallen

- look again at 528, 535, and 537. Zazie lightly coaches fallen, fallen says "hey what gives", and zazie reminds him that they should be talking about ckool. Unlike zazie to behave this way, and do it so quickly.

remember everyone, fallen angel and xyl are the same person

lets give it a tl;dr version.

the main points against xyl are:
-selectively targeting people linked with mastin (but not those most strongly linked with mastin, i.e. nam, until forced to do so)
-appealing to his own inability to discern scum from different groups
-appealing to (my) emotion
-attempting to get other players to build his case against wicked for him
-attempting to flip the burden of proof back to me again after i've already presented a series of points for why he is scum
-fallen angel's demonstrated links to zazie, including zazie coaching f.a.
-kmd's votecount analysis pointing squarely at xyl
-defending via self-meta

of the above, the only one that has been explained in an even mildly satisfactory way is the shenanigans with trying to make other people find their own reasons to be suspicious of wicked.

My only possible defense is pointing out that everything I've done makes sense for me to do as town, but you totally refuse to consider that argument.

you have attempted to explain that everything makes sense for you to do as town, something which i don't agree with to begin with, but furthermore you have not shown that everything you have done does not also make sense for you to do as scum.

just because you do something as town does not mean you don't also do it as scum.

[roflcopter]

-kmd's votecount analysis pointing squarely at xyl

I thought you had Xyl as a pick for being my scumbuddy.

uh, yes, because you proceeded to vote for nam. thats how distancing works - pretend to actively wany someone lynched, but lynch someone else instead.

[roflcopter]

posting don't replace me