Newbie 799 - Katana Village (Game Over!)

[edmund.angles]

My two cents on:
Weeping:

I was just making a potentially helpful observation, GreenDude is posting a lot, and trying to start a discussion to decide if this is suspicious or not.

Vaguely suggesting that something is scummy without saying it outright seems like anti-town to me. Keeping under the radar. Why didn't you say how you felt about Green posting alot when you posted the observation that he did.

Mevorra:
Cautiousness in the first post and only providing technical help in the second. I could see (her?) as quietly providing help while avoiding controversy.
@Mevorra: Please say something controversial. Should be true from your point of view, of course:-)

@nureins:
I find your response a little weird, I accuse you of non-commitedly casting suspicion in a concrete case and you respond by saying what you normally do. The rest of us has to judge what it is you're doing. But the concrete 'friendly voter' thing you answered to my satisfaction(not in quote).

edmund wrote:
@nureins: I agree with GD, please explain the 'friendly voter' expression, could sound like your trying to vaguely and non-committedly cast suspicion on an, as I read, it completely random vote.

I am not casting any suspicion yet. I am typically a very active participant, and I like to promote debate and ideas that we can use later. How? Knowing how we behave and trying to discover the two people who are simulating to be townies.

When I cast accusations, they will be very very open. Indeed, I typically make summaries of how I perceive the players, which I find more suspicious and why, etc. Then I cast serious votes and try to wagon and lynch the players I consider more suspicious. For that, I need to convince others with my arguments.

Right now, we are simply in a starting stage. Launching questions and getting reactions is a first step to know why people do the things they do.

It is of course good that you tell us your strategy so we can use it as a yardstick later. I don't know if it's allowed, but could you post a scumgame and a towngame of yours? I think us newbies could use it to read you correctly. I have read a towngame of yours (wow good play).

@wicked:

I also consider everyone voting for me while these 2 votes are still on me as potential mafia looking for an easy day1 towniekill (unless green and belili give a good reason to keep their vote)

Why are you jumpy at only two votes? Why would you alert the scum that you would consider something scummy? Isen't it good if they reveal themselves?

@green; I did not mean to cast suspicion on you for posting a lot, I wanted Weeping to tell what she felt about you posting a lot.

@Silverfang: How about the other players than green, noticed anything suspicious?

I will continue to vote for the people who have not posted beyond the random phase, for now.

edmund.angles:
I've read a 3 games, so I know some of the vocabulary and strategies. And I've played 3 face2face games. My strategy, don't vote randomly and lynch the least contributing person if nothing scummy happens, In the beginning I'll vote on slight suspicions and gradually the bar is raised for voting someone.

---

VOTE COUNT

(2) Lab Mafia - nureins, edmund.angles

(1) wickedswami - Belili
(1) nureins - Mevorra
(1) GreenDude - SilverFang
(1) SilverFang - GreenDude
(1) NO LYNCH - wickedswami

Not Voting: Lab Mafia, WeepingWind


With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline: July 3, 2009 12:01 pm PST

[wickedswami]

2 votes is not "only 2 votes" when there's only 5 votes required to kill me.
I'm taking into account here that there are some very unactive people here, who might just skim through the thread, seeing who was voted on before and just hop on the bandwagon.

I think i'll agree with you on voting to lynch the most inactive players, but since this game is moving along pretty slowly (last one i played had a 48hour deadline on day and 24hour deadline on night) I think we still have plenty of time to figure out who's active and who isn't.

good idea on asking nureins to post some of his games btw.

[WeepingWind]

Vaguely suggesting that something is scummy without saying it outright seems like anti-town to me. Keeping under the radar. Why didn't you say how you felt about Green posting alot when you posted the observation that he did.

As I said, I was simply making an observation. At this point in the game we have to vote randomly, but still don't want to lynch the wrong person. Posting a lot does not indicate that one is mafia or townie, but conclusions can be drawn from it. It may only indicate how much free time the poster has, but potentially could point out a role. It is important to take every little thing into consideration before lynching someone.

[GreenDude]

I don't really post a lot, i just don't put it all in one post like nureins or edmund.

I think i'll agree with you on voting to lynch the most inactive players, but since this game is moving along pretty slowly (last one i played had a 48hour deadline on day and 24hour deadline on night) I think we still have plenty of time to figure out who's active and who isn't.

If you agree on lynching the most inactive players, then why didn't you vote for labmafia... perhaps because you and him are scum buddies??

[edmund.angles]

@wicked: You seem overly concerned with your own life. If you think scum reveal themselves by putting you at 3 votes (Lynch-2), you're risking your life to a very small degree to gain valuable information for town. Question: if 1 scum were a 100% revealed to the rest of us by casting the final vote for lynching you, wouldn't it be worth it?

@Weeping: It is exactly that you' simply' made an observation that I find a little suspicious, you didn't follow up with any analysis, so if green got lynched and flipped town you could simply say: 'Hey, I only made an observation'.

[GreenDude]

I think everyone is a bit suspicious about wickedswami. So I suggest this:
we put pressure on him. And IF we lynch him, then we find out whether he's mafia or not. If he is... great! If not, he was directing all our mafia finding energy on him, which wasn't helping us, and we will beable to get a move on finding the mafia. AND, if he was townie and we win, he wins too. Seems like a win win situation for me.

[GreenDude]

@mod:could you prob Labmafia soon? He hasn't posted for 3 days i think.

OH! And

unvote,vote Wickedswami

[Tenchi]

It has been barely three days into the game when it started but I am still going to prod Lab Mafia anyway. However, he will be given an additional day to respond before getting replaced (for a total of three more days).

[wickedswami]

@greendude: IIRC the deadline for voting is july 3rd right?
So what's with the hurry? why do you push on voting him out so fast?
I'm just saying we should give it some more time.

You even quoted the part of my statement that said that. I never even considered the fact that he could be replaced (as Tenchi just comes to say now), which only gives me less reason to vote him.

I don't see how being carefull who to vote for makes me look like scum. Imo it's the most pro-town thing I could do.


@edmund: you may be right. I was just protecting myself, not wanting to die on the first day. I'm sorry if I took my own life over that of the town.

I also see no reason why you're attacking weepingwind. He's just throwing in ideas as far as i see it.

[nureins]

@nureins: who are you most suspicious of right now?

If you allow me so, lets postpone this for few days. There is a significant amount of players who didnt participate. Usually, page 6 or 7 starts the game in a more serious way. In any case, I was mostly surprised by the fact that we are not hurrying a lot in wagonning...

I was just making a potentially helpful observation, GreenDude is posting a lot, and trying to start a discussion to decide if this is suspicious or not.

Correct me if I am wrong, I am not english native speaker. When you said,
"green is posting an AWFUL lot", werent you taking a position in this discussion? The position that talking a lot was bad? In any case, do you consider talking a lot bad for town?

@Greendude: I wish I could post more however my work and sleep needs limit the time I have online.

If this is the case, please try to share your opinions with us the more you can and with the highest quality...

The fact that he's posting so much may have nothing to do with his role though. He could be just a naturally talkative person. Or it could be a part of a larger plot to prove his innocence or get us to believe he's an innocent.

Of course, it can be many things. But in any case, I prefer players talking a lot. This way, they can make more mistakes, show the connections to his/her scum partner, and give more information for further days. Whichever the reason of that attitude, it favours town.

I think this enforces my opinion on the matter

I do not think so. This is a newbie game. We ONLY have 3 lynches to guess mafia, or we will lose. Wasting one of the 3 makes us to lose 1/3 of our weapons, which is soooo much !!!
There is not a substantial benefit in no-lynching at the beginning of the game.

Also, I think the wiki is biased in saying that newbie scum proposes it. I think newbies in general propose it, scum and townies. Not a very significant signal in my view.

I don't know if it's allowed, but could you post a scumgame and a towngame of yours? I think us newbies could use it to read you correctly. I have read a towngame of yours (wow good play).

No problem in that. You can simply use the "search" option at the top of the page. I have played few games, so you can easily recognize my scum and townie ones.

I found curious your own labelling as newbie. I wouldnt have called you newbie at all from your posting.

I think i'll agree with you on voting to lynch the most inactive players, but since this game is moving along pretty slowly (last one i played had a 48hour deadline on day and 24hour deadline on night) I think we still have plenty of time to figure out who's active and who isn't.

IC: This game is moving at a satisfactory pace, according to mafiascum standards. That forum is a long run forum. Maintain the motivation and read/write actively, especially if you are town...

As I said, I was simply making an observation...It is important to take every little thing into consideration before lynching someone.

That paragraph sounded to me like repeating things that have been said, especially the irrelevant ones that are said in the beginning of the game (mostly by boring ICs). Weeping, I repeat my previous question. Were you taking a position with your comment or not? And if you took a position, what is it based on, please comment us...

I think everyone is a bit suspicious about wickedswami. So I suggest this:
we put pressure on him.

I think you are running too much by saying that "everyone is a bit suspicious...". Can you describe where have you found that this is the case?

And IF we lynch him, then we find out whether he's mafia or not.

Do you consider lynching him adequate at this stage?

If not, he was directing all our mafia finding energy on him, which wasn't helping us, and we will beable to get a move on finding the mafia.

1. How is he directing your energy? Did he make some extraordinary actions up to now?

2. Even if he did, are you unable to explore more than one player? It would be good for us to know if this is the case...

If you are proposing to lynch him, might you please make a summary of her big scumtells?

why do you push on voting him out so fast?
I'm just saying we should give it some more time.

He didnt push on voting lab out. He interrogated you about why you werent voting him given your position and attitude.

He is pushing on voting YOU out so fast right now

[Mevorra]

@Mevorra: Please say something controversial. Should be true from your point of view, of course:-)

First, don't call me her.

Second, I've pretty much just sat back and tried to take this all in until now, but I had one of these feelings while reading a post of GreenDude:

I think everyone is a bit suspicious about wickedswami. So I suggest this:
we put pressure on him. And IF we lynch him, then we find out whether he's mafia or not. If he is... great! If not, he was directing all our mafia finding energy on him, which wasn't helping us, and we will beable to get a move on finding the mafia. AND, if he was townie and we win, he wins too. Seems like a win win situation for me.

This post seemed to me to be so.. Phoney, and if I was scum, this is exactly the kind of post I would make.

If I had to guess one of the scum at this moment, I would surely pick GreendDude, due to this post.

Therefore,

Unvote: Vote: GreenDude

[edmund.angles]

@wicked: Attacking is such an ugly word, I'm questioning Weepings actions:-). Posting an obvious observation and not analysing it in any way is suspicious to me.

@nureins:

I found curious your own labelling as newbie. I wouldnt have called you newbie at all from your posting.

This is my first forum game ever. I tend to read an AWFUL lot before doing anything, pretty obsessive-compulsive like that. This habit has taught be something, however: A well-read newbie is still a newbie. Thanks for the search tip and the compliment, I might have been fishing .

@Mevorra: Great improvement, have you seen anything else that's suspicious?
btw. add the gender icon if you dislike the wrong pronouns:-)

@green: nureins pretty much summed up what I wanted to ask you.

MOD: Can we get a prod on Belini, please?

[Mevorra]

@Mevorra: Great improvement, have you seen anything else that's suspicious?
btw. add the gender icon if you dislike the wrong pronouns:-)

Thanks, gender icon added.
No, I haven't seen anything (that I consider worthwhile to bring up here) suspicious.

[GreenDude]

Oh crap!! I'm leaving July 4th so I'm only going to be here for day one

@nureins: no saying posting an AWFUL lot doesn't mean bad, it's a figure of speech. AWFUL means a lot basically.

@nureins: I was pretty bold about saying to lynch wicked but, I find that right now wicked happens to be suspicious I'll post why later. But all my attention is on him. If it weren't i could be looking at other people i find a BIT suspicious, such as SilverFang or even edmund, or even YOU, i find that experienced players can hide very easily behind a talkative personality which seems to be contributing a lot, which is why i asked you who you thought most susicious, and you said you'd postpone a few days. Does that mean that you find nobody suspicious yet because you perhaps know that certain suspicious people are actually mafia and don't want to say so??

[GreenDude]

Here is my total summary of why WickedSwami is suspicious(though many are opion based):

All quotes refer to Wickedswami.

let's get this PARTY started

I wouldn't define this game as a party unless you're the mafia

I'd like to give you a reason why I am so 'overly joyed' to
start playing this game, but really, I just thought I'd type
something along with the /confirm to make the post sound less dull, SO DON'T WORRY

Don't worry about what? You being scum??

THX for unvoting green

Um, this's only one vote, why are you so glad one vote is gone??

I also consider everyone voting for me while these 2 votes are still on me as potential mafia looking for an easy day1 towniekill (unless green and belili give a good reason to keep their vote)

2 votes is not "only 2 votes" when there's only 5 votes required to kill me.
I'm taking into account here that there are some very unactive people here,
who might just skim through the thread, seeing who was voted on before and just hop on the bandwagon.

people don't vote on who voted on whom, so therefore you're assuming that the inactives are townies because a mafia wouldn't vote on you THAT fast.

I think i'll agree with you on voting to lynch the most inactive players.

but you didn't vote! is that because one of the inactives is scum?






Here's my summary of why i think Silverfang suspicious:

Maybe you think he's over excited because you're Mafia and want to fly under the radar.

He refers to Wickedswami
He is attacking back at me for voting for wickedswami

Maybe you're just casting suspicion on me because you're mafia and want to kill off a Townie.

He said that when I voted on him, he clearly is attacking back again for SUGGESTING him to be mafia.

Or it could be a part of a LARGER plot to prove his innocence or get us to BELIEVE he's an innocent.

THat is about the fact of me posting a lot.
A larger plot?? To make us believe i'm innocent?? That was also when I had my vote on him, so he is still trying to cast suspicioun on me!





It may seem I somewhat amplified small details but that was to make them noticeable. They are still small detatails from VERY few posts. ESPECIALLY silverfang who barely posts.

[Tenchi]

Belili has been prodded.

[wickedswami]

stuff in underlined/italic is me quoting greendude quoting me

Here is my total summary of why WickedSwami is suspicious(though many are opion based):

All quotes refer to Wickedswami.

let's get this PARTY started

I wouldn't define this game as a party unless you're the mafia

I would.. are you saying you don't enjoy the game unless you're mafia?

I'd like to give you a reason why I am so 'overly joyed' to
start playing this game, but really, I just thought I'd type
something along with the /confirm to make the post sound less dull, SO DON'T WORRY

Don't worry about what? You being scum??

exactly, don't worry about me being scum. At that time, because the way you responded to my first quote, it seemed like you were considering me being scum. Therefore I told you not to worry, since i'm not.

THX for unvoting green

Um, this's only one vote, why are you so glad one vote is gone??

I asked you to unvote me some posts ago and you did, therefore I thanked you

I also consider everyone voting for me while these 2 votes are still on me as potential mafia looking for an easy day1 towniekill (unless green and belili give a good reason to keep their vote)

2 votes is not "only 2 votes" when there's only 5 votes required to kill me.
I'm taking into account here that there are some very unactive people here,
who might just skim through the thread, seeing who was voted on before and just hop on the bandwagon.

people don't vote on who voted on whom, so therefore you're assuming that the inactives are townies because a mafia wouldn't vote on you THAT fast.

I don't really understand what you're saying. I just wanted to erase the possibility of me getting towniekilled on day one just because you want SOMEONE killed on day one. Most people seem to think that no kill on day one is a bad move for the town, so for some people, hopping teh bandwagon could be enough reason to vote me.

I think i'll agree with you on voting to lynch the most inactive players.

but you didn't vote! is that because one of the inactives is scum?

As i said numerous times before, I don't think its neccesary to vote YET, since this game goes by pretty slowly and the deadline is still two weeks from now. After i have posted that post, I have also discussed the possibility of the inactive people being replaced, making it unnecessary to lynch them.

I hope this answers most of your questions.

[Mevorra]

Even though I realize that GreenDude might just want to start a discussion, I think his "comments" on wickedswami are illogical, and he's marking words that might just be that. Words.

Like for the "thanks for unvoting" thing. Maybe he dislikes being under the executor's axe, and thinks one vote less is one vote that doesn't want him dead (which would go for both scum and townies, since no one wants to die).

I'm kind of tired so this last sentence might not be completely understandable, but you probably get my point.


Goodnight

[nureins]

Does that mean that you find nobody suspicious yet because you perhaps know that certain suspicious people are actually mafia and don't want to say so??

no

[GreenDude]

Well that was rather plain, could you maybe say who you ARE suspicious of? Unless perhaps you're suspicious of me in which case you're not going to say so because if we lynch someone other then me then I will kill you if I'm the mafia because you said you were suspicious of me, then again on the other hand, if i don't kill you then you might asume I'm not mafia because you weren't killed.

@wickedswami, I'm not as suspicious of you anymore although you didn't find the hole in my thoughts which I placed purposely.

Also, are you suspicious of Silverfang? And perhaps you could contribute more, to help find the mafia, because even if you are scum, there's one other person to find, and if you are suspicious of another person I could either continue on that path or decide he's townie because you're scum, but in that case I can also figure out whether that person scum the other way around. I'm thinking out loud.

But, could you say whom you are suspicious of?? EVEN, if it's me.

[Lab Mafia]

yeesh been gone for a bit i forget to mention.

[GreenDude]

Oh, yay!! It's lab mafia!!

[GreenDude]

GreenDude wrote:
I think everyone is a bit suspicious about wickedswami. So I suggest this:
we put pressure on him. And IF we lynch him, then we find out whether he's mafia or not. If he is... great! If not, he was directing all our mafia finding energy on him, which wasn't helping us, and we will beable to get a move on finding the mafia. AND, if he was townie and we win, he wins too. Seems like a win win situation for me.


This post seemed to me to be so.. Phoney, and if I was scum, this is exactly the kind of post I would make.

If I had to guess one of the scum at this moment, I would surely pick GreendDude, due to this post.

When I posted that reply I was being rushed and I was more rather saying my thoughts aloud. Now that I read it myself, I does said very scummy. But it was also, more to push Wickedswami to give some answers and for me to anylse him better, but now that he's replied, I'm not very suspicious of him anymore, but then again I could just be saying that. Now, I just want Silverfang to make a reply.

@Labmafia: Could you read through the entire game and tell us what you think?? I've been thinking too much about wickedswami being mafia so I need someone fresh to say his thoughts

[Tenchi]

yeesh been gone for a bit i forget to mention.

I will either need a date range where you will be absent (V/LA notice) OR you need to post more regarding this game. If not, you may be replaced. I am not removing your prodded status just yet.

[GreenDude]

Oh, and I'm sorry Wickedswami, I forgot.

Unvote, vote:Silverfang

Hmm, I'm changing my votes an awful lot. But let me explain my recent posts: my strategy is to put great pressure on people which makes we look scummy, see their reaction and if their reaction doesn't seem very scummy then I put pressure on the next person. Right now, I've contributed a lot to the town side because I have Wickedswami's entire reaction, next I'm going to see what silverfang says, and so on.

@mevorra: Not talking much is somewhat scummy, I'm not saying that you're scum, but I'd like you to talk more and to voice you opinions more often.