The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok, good idea.

Pablo

[Amished]

The "tall man" is one of the two main bad guys (besides Chzo). He and the welder are most likely the two killing factions. In the game, the Tall Man is also Chzo's prince, and mostly how Chzo deals with the human world, sending his bidding through the Prince to bestow his wisdom or whatever onto our world.

Since Pablo seems to be the only other one that really knows the games, it'd be pretty safe to assume that all the main roles are here. Suffice it to say that the tall man/prince (same person, just the "informed" in the mythos call him the prince as they know that's his role wrt chzo being god) and the welder are both very likely to be role names in this setup.

I still have problems with Lamont's line of thinking. I cannot see a townie (especially one so prolific a poster as Lamont) wanting to give up his ability to talk at the end of the day. With my ... semi-confirmed state of being pro-town and attacking you rather heavily the scum would think that you're still a good candidate for a mislynch (from their POV), uncertainty about items overall (even a shotgun shell) would both lend to the idea that you shouldn't have thought that you were going to be NK'd.

Even without the self-imposed posting restriction, you shouldn't have thought you were going to be NK fodder. With that, it still does not follow that anybody sane would want to give up their ability to convey their ideas with the town in such a crucial time.

What the hell was really going through your head, Lamont? For the longest time, you've just come across as scum to me. For reasons I've stated, and for stuff I can't really put into words.

Luckily for you, if you're right about the item being a dayvig, if you use it soonish it can kinda be used as a lynch. We might or might not get a reveal, but we can go from another death at least.

I'll want to reread the game before really voting for a dayvig attempt, but my initial thoughts are with

lamont or dev

.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Questions for Lamont:

Was your post restriction (only being able to vote and say ARGH) given to you by the mod or did you fabricate that?

Depending on the answer, I have a lot more questions.

@Everyone who is voting to vig Naomi - do you not believe Amished when he says he has protected her for today and a vig of her would not work?

As bad as Naomi's claim was, there is a chance it was due to her being a newbie rather than being scum. I am still undecided about her. She certainly needs to be posting more.

@Naomi: Who did you investigate last night and what was the result? Also, why are you in this game if you have not completed a newbie game?

Frankly, if this really is her very first game ever, I think she should be replaced rather than vigged or lynched. If she really is Trilby and just screwed up her claim due to newbishness, it is quite unfair for the town.

(Sorry for the brief absence...)
No I did not investigate, although I was tempted to... I decided to wait till tonight because I want the town's input on my choice...

[Lamont_Cranston]

With my ... semi-confirmed state of being pro-town and attacking you rather heavily the scum would think that you're still a good candidate for a mislynch (from their POV), uncertainty about items overall (even a shotgun shell) would both lend to the idea that you shouldn't have thought that you were going to be NK'd.

FAIL. A shotgun shell is a

huge

threat to scum; they will fight to keep the village from getting a vig shot. There is

no way

they will let a shotgun shell through so that in the day it can be used against them.

What the hell was really going through your head, Lamont?

I had a big red bullseye on my back; I was 100% the NK that night if I didn't do

something

; due to my actions the town now has a day vig today. I did what I had to do to help the town, as was my responsibility.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Questions for Lamont:

Was your post restriction (only being able to vote and say ARGH) given to you by the mod or did you fabricate that?

Depending on the answer, I have a lot more questions.

@Everyone who is voting to vig Naomi - do you not believe Amished when he says he has protected her for today and a vig of her would not work?

As bad as Naomi's claim was, there is a chance it was due to her being a newbie rather than being scum. I am still undecided about her. She certainly needs to be posting more.

@Naomi: Who did you investigate last night and what was the result? Also, why are you in this game if you have not completed a newbie game?

Frankly, if this really is her very first game ever, I think she should be replaced rather than vigged or lynched. If she really is Trilby and just screwed up her claim due to newbishness, it is quite unfair for the town.

(Sorry for the brief absence...)

No I did not investigate, although I was tempted to... I decided to wait till tonight because I want the town's input on my choice...

I don't care what anyone says. My vote is staying with Naomi. I don't care if she is Trilby with NUKE POWERS.

Unvote, Vote Naomi

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Amish Ed:

I don't see your case on Devastation. He has been very consistent. The only thing I've noticed against him is that he didn't vote yesterday.

I don't think he should be lynched or vigged.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Mod: Votecount please.

[Sironigous]

No I did not investigate, although I was tempted to... I decided to wait till tonight because I want the town's input on my choice...

...are you serious?

You were basically one of the top D1 lynch candidates yet you give up the major chance to help the town in even a little way.

sick.

Vote: Naomi

---

On that note, Lamont, why is a mass role claim bad at this point even if we have only 1 major role out?

[Amished]

It's not that Dev didn't vote (I'm pretty sure there are more innocent than scum not-voting anyways), it's just more of a gut feel. Read Dev in ISO. The game isn't that confusing, there are items, but that's just about it. He's experienced enough to do more than what he has. He's voted for you, Lamont, and then unvoted. Otherwise going through he's asked Hohum a question on like page 7. He's not voiced his position on anything, just being an active lurker (who is slightly scummy because of his promise to voice who he thought was scum (Steph or Naomi) end of day1 and never did. I think his death would help out what I think of those two as well).

Also, Naomi: You were under severe scrutiny, and your ability was the only thing (other than lack of CC, which wasn't that definite overall) that kept me wanting to keep you around for today. If you wanted to have input, you should've said something yesterday. Then I could've protected that person to make sure you got a result.

Now it's just a question of if scumpartners would allow you to come under even more scrutiny (and lose you most likely) by not doing a damn thing last night. At this point, a confirmed innocent isn't that big of a deal typically, and would tie up another of my protections allowing them to be even more certain that a kill would go through. You being bullet-proof would allow us to wait another day (as long as the reality shift doesn't occur today, I should check the game as to which day they started there) and I can protect Nyx? who has the shotgun + shell.

Vote: Devestation

For both vigging or lynching.

[Naomi_Saotome]

No, I'm trying to help the town...
If I made a choice and picked someone, found out they were town... were lynched and confirmed as town... we would have then lost 3 townies...

IF I were faking my role claim I could easily convince scum to allow themselves to be lynched and then my role looks valid... The way to go is by letting the town pick!


If everyone picks someone scummy, I investigate and we lynch that person our chances of getting scum are stronger because everyone votes should be for the scummiest looking person(s)...

Besides, say I did look into it... I was lynched, or dayvig and you find out you killed Trilby?

The only good that comes of using the 1-shot now, is for my role to be confirmed...
But so far you all are buying scum garbage... you all will shoot yourselves in the foot at this rate

My advice has for the most part been ignored... Dayvig or lynch me... you'll regret it

[Naomi_Saotome]

Yes, I'm aware that I should have voiced my opinion on the 1-shot earlier... but I ran out of time to do so, due to life factors...

[Amished]

We *can't* dayvig you today, Naomi. We'd have to lynch you if we want to kill you.

If you made a choice and they were town, then we'd have confirmed town. That's just fine. If you made a choice and we found scum, that's even better.

However, by even suggesting that you fake making a choice you'd have had to hit scum with your guess. Then if we thought you were lying (if your guess was more townie than scummy) we'd lynch you, and if you're who you say you are; we'd lynch them and if they were town we'd hurt the town even more.

For you to have a confirmed role is what we wanted *today* so we didn't have to bother with this stupid WIFOM and not allow scum to take your case and vote you for it making them look more townie for giving them a free bad choice to criticize.

[Pablo Molinero]

1) *Some rubbish STILL about rolefishing: tedious and stupid*

2) He mentions the "Tall Man" out of the blue being the first one to do so; this could be because he knows the role as scum.

3) I also noticed how he very quickly reversed himself on the Naomi vote.

1) yep

2) I know the Chzo games / have played them all so I know all the likely roles, as Amish has said.

3) Explain? You've lost me here. If you mean how quickly I came around to vote for her, it was because I missed the last 5 pages or so where she did her little flip-flop so that was the first itme I had read it first-hand.

[Naomi_Saotome]

I wish this could have been discussed before the deadline and done before the deadline of day one... but didn't happen that way. So we're going to have to deal with it today.

[Lamont_Cranston]

No I did not investigate, although I was tempted to... I decided to wait till tonight because I want the town's input on my choice...

...are you serious?

You were basically one of the top D1 lynch candidates yet you give up the major chance to help the town in even a little way.

sick.

Vote: Naomi

---

On that note, Lamont, why is a mass role claim bad at this point even if we have only 1 major role out?

Mods generally make the game unbreakable due to mass claim early on so in this case, being only D2 it will most likely only help the scum to win.

Mass claim is better when we have more info about the scum & town and when we are closer to end game.

[Lamont_Cranston]

...and I can protect Nyx? who has the shotgun + shell.

Whoah, whoah whoah!

Once the shotgun is fired it falls apart and there is no more shell.

So nobody will have either going into N2.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Summary of the latter part of the day from those of us that were busy, plz?

Also, looks like we're up against both the Tall Man and DeFoe. Lovely. Hopefully they're rival factions, but I doubt they're NK-able. And Lamont, for the number of items you're getting, I hope you're on the town's side.

This sounded so like an informed scum trying to gain "I'm hip on this game & I'm townie" points.

Below is "I wuv Naomi":

Lamont, do you think going after someone that has claimed to be a power role (the freakin' hero of the Chzo games) to be a

good

idea? I do admit, the "NK-immune" thing gets me worried that it could just be her explaining her NK-immunity if she is indeed scum, but it could also be a complete and total mistake to throw a way one of our advantages (in a game the mod openly said is stacked against us).

Also, if you're so adamant about this: you have a gun and a bullet. Why not use it?

This statement is BEYOND THE PALE. Trilby is THE NUMBER ONE character. She must die today.

Really? I can respect that the mod wants to make the town balanced, so Naomi's statement isn't OUTRAGEOUS enough to elicit RANDOM CAPS, imo.

There is NO WAY she asks this question if her PM said 1-shot Cop. She must die today.

You're going to have to explain this one, because I ain't getting where you're going with this at all.

Question: who started the rolefishing on Naomi? Can I get a post # for a starting point?

Amished: Good call on the factions. Tall-man could easily be the Brotherhood, while DeFoe/Wielder could be another group of people with the Wielder items. I guess it was just wishful thinking that they would be just one person each.

Whaaat?? Do you not understand how theme games work?? Trilby is the CENTRAL character of the ENTIRE GAME.

Basically, no. This is my first one.

There is NO WAY Trilby is just UNK

Even in a game stacked against us? I don't like your ABSOLUTE certainty here (and RANDOM CAPS).

(UNK is a very common scum roleclaim) and that's it

Proof? Examples? Or are you making things up again? (Genuine question, btw, someone not-Lamont plz answer)

oh ya whoops let's throw in the 1-shot Cop (which someone else mentioned first).

Really? Point against Naomi, then. You know the post number/area where it was first mentioned?

Your defense here is so very suspicious and backs up my initial opinion of your role-fishing.

Oh, cute, you're throwing around buzzwords again. How many times are you going to say that before you give it up. Was. Not. Rolefishing. (And yet, here we are, grilling Naomi about power roles. Irony.) Also, caution =/= defense. You have a decent set of incriminating quotes; Naomi is gonna have to answer for herself.

I need to reread when I have time.

Now I het Naomi:

Thanks for that, Pyro. Yeah, it really, really smacks of a patched-together claim. Amished brings up the cop thing and suddenly it goes into the claim. Damned obvious there, just needed to see it with my own two eyes.

Satael said it best right afterwards:

So then Naomi says to Amished "So you're saying you expected a cop like role as well?" and then POOF! magically she has a cop like role as well and says she's Bulletproof/1-shot cop.

Are we using the shot on her or what? If not:

Vote: Naomi

Now for the rolefishing:

As one who played the games I can see the thought process behind the Chzo theme analysis, but if we operate by that mindset, we'll end up using nothing the entire game! That's no fun. I still think that mafia would be wary to use it, and randomness is skewed towards mafia simply because there are more townies in the game, logically. If we have a vanilla townie volunteer, if it messes with PRs then it won't be that big of a deal.

I admit its not the strongest case. Its all I have. The elixir issue became alot of untraceable nonsense and our D1 was NL.

If someone can come up with a better case on someone else, I'd gladly entertain it but I'm not buying the Devastation argument.

I feel so lost other than the above and the fact that

NAOMI MUST DIE TODAY

.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Your dear, beloved mod has taken apart his wireless broadband modem and fixed it himself (Yay for GCSE level knowledge of circuitry!) so will have much more regular access. Huzzah!

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm a useless idiot making a fluff post with no place in this game, and I'm being warned for it.

[/MOD]

[Setael]

@amished- why is naomi protected from a vig kill but not a lynch?

I think Devestation and naomi are both scum. Happy to see either of them die today.

Can I ask... A few people have mentioned bastard moddery- were those all jokes or was there a statement at some point that this is a planned aspect of this game? Does it make sense to ppl that KoC would give such an important role to someone who has never played before and has no idea what they're doing?

I also think Devastation should be vigged. I agree that it is pointless to determine lynch vote until after the vig.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I think Devestation and naomi are both scum. Happy to see either of them die today.

I have been thinking this too, but I have no way to prove it; I only see the obvious signs of it. Its like they are flaunting it in our faces.

I also think Devastation should be vigged. I agree that it is pointless to determine lynch vote until after the vig.

Let's hear the case...

[Lamont_Cranston]

I think Devestation and naomi are both scum. Happy to see either of them die today.

I have been thinking this too, but I have no way to prove it; I only see the obvious signs of it. Its like they are flaunting it in our faces.

Ooops. I thought you said

Amish Ed

instead of Devastation. I don't see any case for Devastation.

[Devestation]

The reason why I didnt lay a vote on either day 1 was because I was unable to re-read the game.

Setael: Why say I should be vigged without placing a vig-vote thingy? It's not particularly suspicious to me, but why anyway?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Mod: Votecount please.

[Sironigous]

No, I'm trying to help the town...
If I made a choice and picked someone, found out they were town... were lynched and confirmed as town... we would have then lost 3 townies...

IF I were faking my role claim I could easily convince scum to allow themselves to be lynched and then my role looks valid... The way to go is by letting the town pick!

How would we have lost 3 townies? It's a GOOD thing to know who is a confirmed townie so we know they're not trying to confuse us.

Besides, scum will most likely kill non scum anyway - remember, they generally know who each other are. o_o

Now with letting the town pick... Naomi, during the decanter period you said hohum should choose who should drink the decanter so he receives all the consequences for it.
Here, were you just afraid of receiving blame and such?

I don't see how a cop result can get you lynched.

If everyone picks someone scummy, I investigate and we lynch that person our chances of getting scum are stronger because everyone votes should be for the scummiest looking person(s)...

...what? You should know that scum cop reports are always right (except for cases of miller [none claimed] or sanity).

Besides, say I did look into it... I was lynched, or dayvig and you find out you killed Trilby?

... OK, then we confirm your cop report is true if you really are Trilby.

The only good that comes of using the 1-shot now, is for my role to be confirmed...

...which is what we wanted you to do for the first night.

---

Mods generally make the game unbreakable due to mass claim early on so in this case, being only D2 it will most likely only help the scum to win.

Mass claim is better when we have more info about the scum & town and when we are closer to end game.

That makes sense.
My point was just that the townie major role already claimed, so I figured nothing else would be more powerful than that.
I'm going to stop speculation on this, ha.

---

...actually....

Wait wait wait wait.

Amished said he protected Naomi.

Therefore Naomi still has her bulletproof ability, no?

So... What if we let Naomi live another day for the cop investigation?
There is (supposedly) no way for her to be killed this night, so we do get that investigation.

Unvote

If this does go through, then we take a step forward on town information.

Comments please.