Suicide Bomber Mafia - GAME OVER - Fastest Large Theme Ever?

[Mr. Flay]

Wouldn't the Texas Justice games count under this? Slightly different mechanic in that it's night actions and there's still a lynch, but the sheer number of kills that are under the control of a single pro-town player is relevant IMO.

[Thok]

Wouldn't the Texas Justice games count under this? Slightly different mechanic in that it's night actions and there's still a lynch, but the sheer number of kills that are under the control of a single pro-town player is relevant IMO.

There are fairly major differences. In Texas, one single person can't stop discussion by himself. Also, everybody gets a mostly equal chance to kill, rather than the most impulsive people getting a priority. I think it's clear that average person kill>>>>>impulsive person kill.

[Mr. Flay]

Good point(s).

[Pariah]

"Oh peoples played like immature babies."

All the complaining and whining over D2 was stupid.

Threatening to kill someone is in itself not immature. Blowing away someone who threatened to blow you up that threat is fine as their action is illogical.

If you are going to make a game where people can sacrifice themselves at will to kill, and you let Fritzler join without saying anything? Then you get what you get. I found the game fun and lighthearted in concept and joined it thinking it would be like this, not filled with players who feel like it's necessary to make personal attacks for

utilizing the game's mechanic

.

[Pariah]

Seriously, if you give the people an ability to kill and end day you should expect out of 18 or so people one of them is going to do it - whether you like the reason or not, you put a ton of control in the player's hand. If you don't want it to end day, you need to rework the mechanic. If you don't like that, you shouldn't have been so naive to join this kind of a game.

I'm not complaining toward the mod - moreso the people harassing me.

[Xylthixlm]

I was totally not surprised by how the game turned out.

Which do you think this game will be: a disaster, a complete disaster, or an unmitigated disaster?

[Pariah]

Honestly, the game is designed around a mechanic. The mechanic is open to all players. To design a game and expect them to not use the mechanic is stupid - MoD knew what he was up to. It's bad design otherwise.

The players who expect a mechanic to exist and not be utilized are being naive, and being excessive for going off the deep end for it. You should have realized what you signed up for.

[SensFan]

Honestly, the game is designed around a mechanic. The mechanic is open to all players. To design a game and expect them to not use the mechanic is stupid - MoD knew what he was up to. It's bad design otherwise.

The players who expect a mechanic to exist and not be utilized are being naive, and being excessive for going off the deep end for it. You should have realized what you signed up for.

Sorry, but I disagree.

The mechanic is a lot deeper, and has a ton more usage than "random suicides ftw!"

[Mr. Flay]

Pariah: I think the point is that the mechanic never gets fully explored if it keeps being short-circuited by impulsive players. That's part of why majority lynch is so integral to most games - it minimizes the random effect and tries to harness the 'wisdom of the crowds'. Some players, however, seem to 'get off' on being able to impose their will, and it usually seems to happen from town players (maybe because scum are still acting as a group?) and that has, thus far, largely contributed to the town's downfall.

[elvis_knits]

Not sure anyone mentioned this, but:

Stoofer's Dynamite Stick Mafia was similar, but it worked. Town won.

I think there were some big reasons why it worked...
1)Balance was 3 scum in 25 players. We got 8 days out of it. For the first few days, we had kamikaze kills, but people calmed down.
2)You had to "strike a light" in thread and wait 24 hours before killing, so people knew your intentions. However, anyone could dynamite you instantly after you struck a light.
2)Adel made everyone agree to nominate an enforcer, whose job was to dynamite any player who struck a light without town consensus. This kept people honest.

[Pariah]

Honestly, the game is designed around a mechanic. The mechanic is open to all players. To design a game and expect them to not use the mechanic is stupid - MoD knew what he was up to. It's bad design otherwise.

The players who expect a mechanic to exist and not be utilized are being naive, and being excessive for going off the deep end for it. You should have realized what you signed up for.

Sorry, but I disagree as well.

The mechanic is a lot deeper, and has a ton more usage than "random suicides ftw!"

Don't mean to offend, but it's human nature to want to do things especially if someone tells you shouldn't. Design needs to "balanced" for this. And honestly, if you intend a super serious game? Don't let Fritzler join. (Not that I dislike him - it's just that he plays like that with vigilante roles.) Not a good tone setter. I mean really, two sacrifices and then the game's over? Kind of quick. Basically Day two was lynch or lose if a townie was sacrificed and a town took out.

What else did you expect when that happened, though? Mechanic is only as deep as the execution by the players. As executed, these are going to be the way the games play out - and that may be a good or a bad thing in your opinion. There's a reason Texas Justice was only 6 pages. Unless you pick or choose your player base of the most serious and bestest people ever who have all convened and decided to never use the mechanic, games will be like this.

But by then why did you bother to make the mechanic? To function that every player is "Vengeful" and sometimes not?

The game's advertised with the ability to blow people up. People sign up because of that ability. I have no problem with what MoD made - you just have to know what you're signing up for. I might have tweaked numbers but I've no complaints.

...

Personally my death was not totally "random" but I've not read the rest of the thread- seeing as it's 8 pages. My decision was essentially someone claimed they were going to kill me by page 10 for claiming to kill someone else. That's very odd - A lot of people were "mad" at me for my threat - the original was to see what'd he say - so I thought before a random person took me out I took out myself. I was wrong, but the original action was just silly - if someone is threatening to kill someone else, your reaction should not be "I am going to vig you" because you at least know you are "town" or projecting it to the scum.

Better to lose me and an unknown.

@Flay: If a mechanic continually destroys games and blows lots of people up who are town after multiple appearances, perhaps as executed the mechanic has been fully explored? If someone really loves it, there needs to be another way to do it and communication by the GO without mixed messages about the intent - given one idea or another of what you want. Is it a "blow yourself up first" or "possible but never use me much" ability?

[Pariah]

@Knits: "2)Adel made everyone agree to nominate an enforcer, whose job was to dynamite any player who struck a light without town consensus. This kept people honest. "

So the mechanic basically was turned from being able to kill people to just functioning as two lynches . That's...rather boring and could just be reworked that way and functioned almost identically. Not that it wasn't the right play, but it sounds rather defeating.

This execution seems like an interesting more casual kind of idea that could be play seriously but with expected silly results and that's about all with the intrepretation. I didn't joke kill though.

[Pariah]

This game was a farce. The town was filled with too many dimwits who didn't have the maturity/aptitude to play this game.

S'not really necessary to personally attack people. I'm sorry if you were heart broken over the results, but if you look at this (which agrees with a lot of what I just said)...

Fuzzy lightning was scum and never posted once during the game. There should be award for getting away with something like that. heh heh

The "His computer broke after he signed up and therefore didn't have a way to post for the entirety of the game" award?

Note: I'm not him, I just know him IRL, and this was what happened.

oh, ouch! I guess it was unintentional then. Computer failure sucks but at least it didn't cause him to loose. Lurking generally aids scum in the Heavy day kill games.

To be fair, I think both Bad Idea mafias were won by scum (I was Godfather in the second one ), so I think there is a track record for town failing in these kinds of setups.

Pretty Much

Scum Wins:
Expolosiva
Bad Idea Mafia
Bad Idea Mafia 2
Russian Roulette 2
Yosarians Nuke Game
Unreal Tournament Mafia
Worse Idea Mafia - Guardian fails
Marathon Bad Idea Mafias 1 and 2
The Battle of Heaven Series (Did town win any of those?)

Town Wins:
Dynamite Mafia
Really Bad Idea
Russian Roulette 1 & 3
UT Prototype (Wors

t

Idea)

I play the game seriously elsewhere but I don't take it so easily that people who do dumb or bad players are suddenly dimwits.

I can't answer for the other suicides, but I don't feel bad for my own.

[Pariah]

Arrgh, sorry for quadposting but I took it here seriously too. But I don't feel bad for anyone who joined this game and felt let down - thinking about the set up and theme and the track record told you what you were in for.

[PokerFace]

Adding it all up

Scum Wins:

1 Expolosiva
2 Bad Idea Mafia
3 Bad Idea Mafia 2
4 Russian Roulette 2
5 MAD mafia 1 (Yosarian's Nuke Game I called it earlier)
6 MAD Mafia 2
7 Unreal Tournament Mafia
8 Worse Idea Mafia
09-10 Marathon Bad Idea Mafias 1 and 2
11-13 The Battle of Heaven Series (Did town win any of those? NO!!)
14 The scum chat Mad Mafia runnings I was in one won by scum
15 Suicide Bomber (This game)

Town Wins:

1 Dynamite Mafia
2 Really Bad Idea
3-4 Russian Roulette 1 & 3
5 UT Prototype (Tar's Worst Idea)

Not counting ehobanhar because Xyzzy really mucked that up to point where it was basically a draw

Total of about 20 games roughly (I might be forgetting some). Town wins 1/4 of the time while scum wins 3/4

[Mr. Flay]

Pariah is correct in that people shouldn't get too attached to games of this sort, but it's precisely due to the Fritzler effect that they need to have that detachment. I think it's a question of ideal play vs. human nature, and discovering something about this type of mechanic.

As a side-note, the Angel Nightless/War in Heaven series SHOULD have a much smaller susceptibility to the Fritzler effect because it's not an instakill but a 'permanent vote' of sorts, but so far people have been cowed by the most aggressive into never using their healing power, which has INEVITABLY allowed scum to pick off people of their choosing. I keep expecting people to cotton to this, but so far they haven't.

[SensFan]

Arrgh, sorry for quadposting but I took it here seriously too. But I don't feel bad for anyone who joined this game and felt let down - thinking about the set up and theme and the track record told you what you were in for.

Again, I disagree.

Isn't "play to win" one of the site rules?
What right is it of mine as a player of any particular game that that rule doesn't apply to this game?

[PokerFace]

Pariah is correct in that people shouldn't get too attached to games of this sort, but it's precisely due to the Fritzler effect that they need to have that detachment. I think it's a question of ideal play vs. human nature, and discovering something about this type of mechanic.

As a side-note, the Angel Nightless/War in Heaven series SHOULD have a much smaller susceptibility to the Fritzler effect because it's not an instakill but a 'permanent vote' of sorts, but so far people have been cowed by the most aggressive into never using their healing power, which has INEVITABLY allowed scum to pick off people of their choosing. I keep expecting people to cotton to this, but so far they haven't.

Well the "trend" is 1 out of 4 is a town win and you have run it 3 times so maybe you'll get your wish next time.

Side note has the discussion after gone on over a longer period than the game actually lasted?
May 17-May 27 = 10 days
May 27-June 13+ = 17+ days
Yep

[Mafiaplayer]

This isn't just the fastest large theme I've seen, it's the fastest game I've ever seen.

[Mastermind of Sin]

There are newbie games that have been faster, and I'm damn sure there are shorter mini games as well.

[PokerFace]

There are newbie games that have been faster, and I'm damn sure there are shorter mini games as well.

Yep

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Records

[Mastermind of Sin]

Well, get ready for Suicide Bomber 2, it's coming!

Locking thread now...