Open 150 - Crossfire - Game mod abandoned

[VP Baltar]

Vote FeRnAnDo

because this will be the only time I spell your name like that.

And all the time zone hate. (I don't live in the states either, but just saying)

[VP Baltar]

That's L-3.

Are you suspcious of anyone on that wagon?

[VP Baltar]

Why is dvd your best be so far Huntress?

[VP Baltar]

I've never played this set up, but I agree that this RVS is starting to suck right now.

I say we wagon the hell out of Fernando and see where it goes.

[VP Baltar]

How about we try to lynch scum.

I think he meant if anyone had ideas specific to this setup.

[VP Baltar]

I agree. perhaps we should wagon kmd. Thoughts?

[VP Baltar]

I want a serious wagon...those are more just random votes on you two. Adding a couple more votes to your wagon would at least show some serious intention. Plus, you did come in here with a response to lazerus that was exactly what he was complaining about.

Unvote, Vote:kmd

There, no more RVS for me.

[VP Baltar]

prolonging RVS

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I saw that post from you, but I thought you kind of let Kise off the hook easy and of course you then slipped back into joking with Zazie (which is pretty null in your case, but still).

[VP Baltar]

Kise seemed to be pretty obviously joking.

orly?

Is this a joke or serious?

Serious in a non-serious tone.

Here Kise expressly says he was serious, but not being forceful about it. You apparently don't believe him:

So are you suspicious of dvd/Ash or not?

FoS dvdkid13

Then he goes on to explain his thoughts even further:

Kmd voted for Zaz' first, then you voted for her second. Therefore, you two are The Sorcerors. Ash & dvdkid are Shadow Dragons.

Your response is that he can't be serious about that even though he just said he was serious about his vote and FoS.

There is no way you are being serious about Zach and I being scum for voting Zazie. I can't tell if you are jokinhg about dvd and Ash, but I think you are...

Even if you actually did think he was joking (afte he said he was serious), it still would have been a decent wagon to start on and see who goes after it like pirahnas on a bloody limb.

[VP Baltar]

Too scummy to be scum is not a valid argument.

I'm not saying you had to tunnel until his lynch, but you discounting him as joking when he expressly said he was not seems silly. Like I said in my last post, at worst you could have attacked him over what you feel are bad reasons and watched to see if anyone tried to parrot you. That can be a good way catch scum slipping early on.

[VP Baltar]

Well, as someone who wants to hunt scum, what do you propose we do to get the game moving? We certainly can't twiddle our thumbs and wait for the scum to claim. Essentially, the most common way out of the RVS is to twist what someone said even though it might be considered BS later in the game.

[VP Baltar]

@darkstrike-RVS is pretty much over and your questions want to drag us back...what are your thoughts on the current wagons?

[VP Baltar]

You see Kmd, picking at little things can sometimes unravel the whole package.

Unvote, Vote:Fernando

Guess I had it right the first time. There are valid reasons to be voting Huntress right now, but yours are certainly not it. Nice attempt to join a wagon, though.

[VP Baltar]

I don't think that should stop a lynch I just think that we should be more careful when the odds are bad, thats all I'm saying. I think that if enough people join the Fern bandwagon, he could possibly be lynched

No wagon has really gotten to the point yet where we "need to be more careful". I wouldn't worry about Fernando getting lynched either right now, as he doesn't have much support on his wagon, just Kmd and I. Feel free to join if you think he acted scummy.

@lazarus-When do you plan to start scum hunting?

[VP Baltar]

mod, please prod or replace Scott Brosius

Also, I would just like to say that it would probably be a good idea to get this game rolling in some sort of actual direction. We have three week deadlines and have basically spent our first week with nothing happening. I realize that some people here might be newer, but the game is a lot more fun if you actually get involved and start trying to find scum.

When a majority of people are not posting regularly it makes the game dull and more about randomly lynching people than actually finding scum. If you are town, start posting more. If you are scum, please continue to lurk...you will be easier to spot that way.

That is all.

[VP Baltar]

I think you ran out of fingers awhile ago Kise. Your vote is still on Kmd, which I assume means that you think he is the most scummy person here.

Why do you think so?

[VP Baltar]

mod, can you prod scum Fernando please, as well as Zazier and anyone else who is basically not posting here at all.

ITT, Kise completely ignores possible scum Fernando for lazarus, who has said almost nothing in the game.

[VP Baltar]

What does ITT mean?

In this thread

Fernando has said just as little as Lazarus.

I disagree. He acted scummy with how he got on that bandwagon. Lazarus has literally said next to nothing of substance.

[VP Baltar]

How does actual scummy behaviour get outweighed by speculation about what Laz's intentions are?

[VP Baltar]

Please elaborate what "strange/scummy" behaviour Lazarus has done and explain why it is more than what Fernando has done. You are definitely entitled to your opinion about who is scummy, but my point is that you seemed to avoid commenting on Fernando for the most part. Now that you are pressed a bit, you admit that he acted scummy. So, I would like you to explain more detail so I can understand your position better.

[VP Baltar]

I completely missed that where kise said Laz isn't scummy and then votes him in his next post. Obv scum who can't keep his story straight because he's FoS'ed almost everyone in the game.

this guy needs to die quick

Unvote, Vote: Kise

[VP Baltar]

You specifically said that Laz wasn't all that scummy. It makes no sense to vote for someone who isn't one of your main suspects, of which you seem to have plenty.

Hardly opportunism. Fernando can wait for tomorrow.

[VP Baltar]

I will make this easy for you to understand Kise.

Lazarus isn't really scummy, he just isn't helping the thread. Ash's words toward dvdkid are about as strange as what Fernando had to say.

Vote: Lazarus

So if you can explain to me how Lazarus jumped in scumminess ahead of Ash and dvd for you to make that vote without him making a single post, I might consider unvoting you.

[VP Baltar]

Laz's comments make me consider him the quiet mafia guy.

There are plenty of people apart from lazarus who haven't said much in this game, so this criteria is far too wide fitting to actually be pointing at someone who is scummy.

Ash has only made 3 posts total, so you can't read a whole lot out of tha

And how many has lazarus made: 4. Somehow I don't think this would count as a criteria to consider laz more scummy either.

So, what happened to the Fernando wagon?

I'm voting for who I think is scum.

[VP Baltar]

What you are describing above kise seem to be scummy actions, so you do consider lazarus scummy?

Actually I'll just answer this for you with your own words:

I'm not going to call an inactive player scumbag until they say something scummy, thus give me a reason to suspect them.

Lazarus isn't really scummy, he just isn't helping the thread.

[VP Baltar]

You still haven't explained how "lazarus isn't really scummy" to now you are pretty sure he's lurker scum.

[VP Baltar]

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was looking for that post but couldn't find it when I was skimming. I knew you said something of that accord.

I will amend my last post now:

I'm not going to call an inactive player scumbag

until they say something scummy

, thus give me a reason to suspect them.

Laz did not

say

anything scummy

Bolded for the ease of other players to see. More votes for Kise plz.

[VP Baltar]

In my book, Lazarus falls into the category of non-talking players. Unfortunately for you, you used one set of criteria to vote him and a completely different set to justify why you are not voting other people.

Contradictions and double standards equal scummy in my book.

[VP Baltar]

The first quote was a reply as to why I didn't suspect players like Scott.

You used Scotty/Furry as an example, but were referring to the inactive players in this game. You really think that lazarus does not fall into this category? I would argue that Furry has already said more than lazarus.

[VP Baltar]

Scott/Furry had zero posts at the time, thus he gave me no reason to suspect him. What is it about this fact that you're not seeing/ignoring?

Are you saying you were referring only to scott in that post? It seemed you were referring to many lurking players and used him as an example.

My point is that you voted lazarus as being lurking scum who was sheeping along, while clearing a whole bunch of other lurkers because they had alledgedly not said anything. You also said that lazarus had not said anything scummy. It is not two different subjects. If you are going to have one rule for lurkers, you have to have it for all other lurkers.

Just for reference, here is a list of how many posts every player has made in this game. Note: this does not speak to content, just number of posts.

Ash=3
DarkStrike=3
dvdkid=10
Fernando=8
Furry=3
Huntress=3
Khamisa=3
Kise=33
kmd=32
lazarus=5
VP Baltar=30
Zach=11
Zazier=9

In my opinion, anyone with 10 posts or less at this time is lurking, and several of these are super lurkers.

As a side note:

mod, can you look into some of these players with the lowests post counts. I am sure they need to be prodded or replaced at this point

[VP Baltar]

Furry is the only exception to my list.

I want to hear other players weigh in on this because things are just getting more and more muddled the more we go back and forth.

[VP Baltar]

Oh noes! It's the contradiction-scumtell!

So are you admitting you contradicted yourself, but you simply don't think that should be counted as scummy behaviour?

[VP Baltar]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with those quotes.

You never said the word lurker. You said inactive player. Same thing.

You're contesting I'm arguing two different things. I don't believe I am. I would like other players to comment, and I won't be arguing with you anymore about it unless you bring new information to the table that I need to address.

[VP Baltar]

Ash, please comment on whether you think Kise is scummy or not.

[VP Baltar]

One person, (Kise in this case) is being pressured into submission by other players and in an attempt to defend himself, his arguments get less coherent and his logic makes less sense and so he ends up being lynched but he was town.

See, this is what I'm worried about. I can be a bit aggressive at times, which is why I would rather have other peoples' opinions on the matter. I don't want to be making too much out of nothing.

Kmd, Zazier- what are you thoughts?

[VP Baltar]

ok, had time to properly read over the Ash/darkstrike exchange.

Conclusion:

Ash=awesome

I wasn’t meaning to “claim” by it at all.

You implied you were town. Fairly directly.

Posting more would actually make you seem a lot less scummy when you do post. I don't like how you keep trying to excuse your lurking.

I think right now I would be good with the following lynches: Kise/Darkstrike and to a much lesser extent Fernando (who I would rather is replaced).

I think we have like 10 or 12 days until deadline.

mod, can you start posting vote counts a bit more frequently (at least once every other page) and include the deadline. It appears your last votecount was on the 9th. Also, I would personally prefer if you made them in your own posts so they are easy to find in iso. Thanks.

[VP Baltar]

Of course I implied town. That wasn’t what I was saying in that quote. I was saying it wasn’t a formal claim. That was the point I was trying to make.

Well, there are essentially only two roles in this game, so if you are implying town it's as good as formally claiming.

As for it being “obvious” I don’t understand why you all are so suspicious of me. I’m more active now, excpet now whenever I post people jump upon it. Maybe once you think of someone as scummy you see all their posts as scummy, I don’t know. In truth I’m finding this the most hostile and the least fun game of mafia I have played yet in my short MS career.

I'm going to give you a piece of advice because I don't want you to feel like people are picking on you for nothing or mafia is not fun: there are times during these games when you are going to get attacked and the best thing you can do is just point out logical inconsistencies in the attacks rather than complian about how everyone is picking on you for nothing.

Players on this site can be aggressive (myself included), and the best thing you can do is just answer questions and continue to scumhunt. If it helps you, try and look at your actions from someone else's perspective who doesn't know your alignment and see if you can see why they might think you are scummy. Then explain why that is not true.

[VP Baltar]

mod, prod yourself and a number of other people while you're at it

Looking forward to your post lazarus.

[VP Baltar]

you need to post or die Khamisa. plain and simple. Saying you need to read up is not acceptable.

I still stand by my statement that scum have to scumhunt.

I don't agree. I think it is very likely there is more than one scum either sheeping along or completely lurking in this game.

While I think Kise is more scummy, you certainly haven't been making a huge commitment to this game, Kmd. Also, if you talk to Zazie at all, will you tell her to check this game and post please.

[VP Baltar]

/\ what she said

[VP Baltar]

I'm saying that scumhunting will help scum to win the game. They need to try to find each other. Basically, scumhunting is less of a towntell here than it is anywhere else because someone can genuinely scumhunt and still be scum themselves.

Ok, I understand you better know. I would agree with that.

How haven't I committed to this game? I commit to every game I join. I've been around more than anyone except maybe you and Kise.

Posting and finding original content are not the same thing. I agree that you have been here, but you seem a bit disinterested at points. I know this game is lacking people being active overall, but I would expect you to be one of the persons really spurring people on to contribute. It's minor and mostly gut based because I haven't read you in iso, but I think we probably have high expectations of each other.

Ok, about the Zazie thing. I just know she's active in other games and hasn't contributed anything to this one. Apparently she hasn't really been prodded though either...so that may account for that.

lazarusmoth's prod expires tomorrow at 11:20 AM

he just posted recently saying he didn't have internet and is back. I don't think the prod is a problem right now. ALSO, please post a vote count.


@Kise, you seriously need to stop acting like a wanker. Kmd said stop calling him that and you are just antagonizing him. The mod either needs to do one of the following: warn/eject/modkill you. There is no reason to act like that.

moving on

Why did you feel the need to pester me to vote for Laz

Did kmd specifically tell you to vote for Laz?

[VP Baltar]

You don't think I've posted original content? Elaborate. I seem to get attacked for this in every game lately, but I feel I add just as much as I always have.

What do I seem "disinterested" in? Maybe it didn't catch my attention. I'll elaborate if you'll point something out to me.

Like I said, it's a lot of gut feel. I'll try and look at you in iso today or tomorrow and see if this is founded at all.

Yes, I don't like lurkers and they should post more, but it's mathematically impossible for all of the lurkers in this game to be scum.

I never said all the lurkers are scum. I said I would expect you to be one of the people asking people direct questions and trying to get them to post more often.

No need for the Mod to get involved.

Somehow I doubt this would happen anyhow.

In other news, I think Kise may be close to a lynch (like L-1). No one else vote until we get a

VOTE COUNT

[VP Baltar]

To do list:

Review Ash's stance on Kise throughout the day.
Look at kmd in iso.
Anxiously await Huntress to post her remarks before the day ends.
Pray the mod gives some attention to this game.

[VP Baltar]

Booya. I appreciate your death scene though Kise. Want to tell us who your partner is while we wait?

[VP Baltar]

Actually, hold on a sec, are you claiming scum Kise or are you just bitter that you were lynched?

[VP Baltar]

As for all the suspicion building on Kise: I've been in a game with this situation before and i can tell whats happening. One person, (Kise in this case) is being pressured into submission by other players and in an attempt to defend himself, his arguments get less coherent and his logic makes less sense and so he ends up being lynched but he was town.
I'm not necessarily saying that Kise is town or not. But i do approve of the Kise wagon (even though he is not the person who i am most suspicious of) because hopefully we can get more posts from him so that i can make a more educated decision. I just don't think i would approve of a Kise lynch at this point

If Kise flips scum, this might be important to note.

[VP Baltar]

Don't weep for me! My corpse has been cast in a 1980s cross-over remake of the Police Academy films and Weekend at Bernies. I'm going to be a multi-thousandaire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[VP Baltar]

I PM'ed the list mod about possibly taking over this game from you because there were obviously problems. However, with recent site drama, I'm not sure if this game can survive (or is even worth saving). I think farside will have to make a decision on this one and it will be up to the players if they want to continue.