Open 144 - Near-Vanilla - GAME OVER!

[Zer0ph34r]

unvote

Like I said, you can vote me for not being productive, but at this stage in the game, it would be smarter to try and find scum first.

[AndyTony]

If you believe a word of what you just said, can you finally explain the Dej vote?

[Cephrir]

Non-random-phase selfvoters should be policy lynched.

@"lynching town is always bad": Yes, this is true. But. Not only is Zero worthless, it's not like we know for certain that he's town. I give him about the same chance of being town as I would someone who had never posted at this point. I think the un-selfvote and un-total-resignation is just born from the realization that he might just get away with this. Makes me feel like the sentiment was insincere in the first place.

I'd like to see a claim at least, personally.

[Zer0ph34r]

Fine. REASON: I know dejkha wanted out of the game and since he likes being town more. Therefore, I'm assuming he was scum.

Cephrir: What exactly have you done to help the town? [Not trying to find scum, I mean what have you actually done that has made an impact on the town?]

[ODDin]

Zer0 - I'm not voting you for not being productive. I'm voting you for being actively counterproductive. Yes, I actually think that our chances of winning without with lynching you today are higher than our chances of winning without lynching you today, even if you are town (and that's not a certainty as well - the unvoting actually makes me somewhat more suspicious you're trying to play the "look I'm a frustrated townie" game, leeching on the discussion we had early in the game.)

[Cephrir]

Fine. REASON: I know dejkha wanted out of the game and since he likes being town more. Therefore, I'm assuming he was scum.

Cephrir: What exactly have you done to help the town? [Not trying to find scum, I mean what have you actually done that has made an impact on the town?]

Given that no one's been lynched yet, it can't be said that anyone has done anything to help the town other than scumhunt... what possible answer would there be to this question on Day 1 even from a shining beacon of protownness who had clearly caught all the scum. Getting scum killed and trying to find scum are the only meaningful contributions that exist.

[Zer0ph34r]

ODD, if I look scum to you, so what? You've already voted for me, so I don't really care too much.

Funny Cephrir, you claim I've done nothing to benefit the town, you claim to have done the same. I realize that finding scum is essential for a town win. But most judgments on the first day without any actions performed are nearly useless.

[Cephrir]

See, the difference is, you're not trying. You're actively trying to not try, actually.

[yawetag]

Current Phase:

Day 1

Deadline:

Stalled for replacements

Votes Needed for Lynch:

7

Current Vote Count

Current as of

Post #383

Zer0ph34r

- 3 (The Corporation, Cephrir, ODDin)

dejkha

- 1 (hohum)

The Replacement

- 1 (dejkha)

Not Voting:

AndyTony, hewitt, Kdub, Khamisa, MadCrawdad, OccamR, The Replacement, Zer0ph34r

[yawetag]

I've posted in the Replacements Queue hoping for someone to take it.

As it is, I will be

V/LA until Sunday night.

I should be able to keep up with the game where I'm going, and I'll take a thumbdrive with me to update the votes as needed.

As of now, there is no deadline. I will wait for the game to be completely replaced, then will give a 7-day deadline at that time.

*IF* the game goes into twilight/night before replacements are made, the game will stall until replacements can be found. During this extended night phase, mafia will be allowed to converse with each other. When replacements are found and /confirm, the night will extend for 48 hours after that point.

Please note that outguessing the mod because of this extension is

NOT

a smart thing to do. This extension is given regardless of the roles that are needing replacement.

[Zer0ph34r]

I'm not specifically trying not to, I just have incredibly low expectations of finding something useful at this point. And if I were to start questioning more and trying to find out more, you all would most likely think that I am lurking or scum or whatever.

[The Replacement]

Finished my first read, it was a quick read.

I don't disagree with Zer0ph34r's vote on dejkha. I was actually very surprised at the response to his vote as I didn't think it deserved such a negative retalliation leading to as many votes as quickly as it did. I personally find it to be a slight scum-tell to request being replaced out of a game. A policy lynch is bad. Zer0ph34r will have scumtells just as any other player would, we just have to figure out if he is making them or not. Even players like Zwetschenwasser aren't impossible to determine their alignment based on their play, even if you think their play is always anti-town there are still certain tells players exhibit when thy are scum as opposed to town. Scum will make anti-town plays, but not all anti-town plays are made by scum.

I think Zer0ph34r is likely correct in his assumption that one of the players, or maybe two, that jumped on him so quickly are scum, Cephrir seems the scummiest of those to me. I don't think we should be focusing on Zer0ph34r as much as we have been.

Cephrir, what good does bringing up that meta info bit do several days later as opposed to mentioning it on day one? It would be useless unless both of you are still alive which you would have no way to predict unless you are not town, and if you died your "secret" would have died with you.

Vote: Cephrir

[The Corporation]

A-rereading. Pretty happy with my vote where it is though.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir, what good does bringing up that meta info bit do several days later as opposed to mentioning it on day one? It would be useless unless both of you are still alive which you would have no way to predict unless you are not town, and if you died your "secret" would have died with you.

Well it's not so significant that it would be a tragedy if I died with it, but I didn't think it would be terribly useful without several days' worth of his actions to base it on. And if he died then it wouldn't really matter would it.

[MadCrawdad]

Cephrir, what good does bringing up that meta info bit do several days later as opposed to mentioning it on day one? It would be useless unless both of you are still alive which you would have no way to predict unless you are not town, and if you died your "secret" would have died with you.

Well it's not so significant that it would be a tragedy if I died with it, but I didn't think it would be terribly useful without several days' worth of his actions to base it on. And if he died then it wouldn't really matter would it.

Then it wouldn't have been a tragedy if you had forgotten it, either. So there really was no point in posting the 'Note to Self' in the thread. Right? Everyone has little thoughts about players, but nobody really puts their little notes in the thread...especially when those thoughts are as unimportant as you're making your 'Note to Self' appear now.

What concerns me, Ceph, is that it seems like you could be posing as a scum hunter, but not really hunting anything... Posing as the good townie/voice of reason when you single-handedly stopped the fictitious runaway lynch wagon on AT. Posing as the wily mafia hunter who was so crafty and deep under cover that you couldn't share your thoughts (but instead decided to leave little messages), lest you blow your important investigations.

The fact that you were third on Zero is also somewhat suspect to me. With all the heat having been on you, Zero could have represented a diversion. Getting on 1st or 2nd might have made you appear too eager, but jumping on the wagon 3rd could give it the nudge you might be hoping for.

[AndyTony]

I'm inclined to agree with the sentiment regarding Ceph's "Note to self"

Perhaps he indeed had special knowledge that I would be alive in days to come - the same knowledge scum would have if he chose to keep me alive until he could later point at me and say "meta!"

That's not as weak as what I feel he did most recently, though.

He asked Zero to claim - - Zero had a bit of pressure against him, he was in the spotlight, he even got a little snappy at us - - asking him to claim was fishing for one of those "meta scum claims" - and that earns:

FoS: Ceph

For asking Zero to claim

[AndyTony]

EBWOP
What's not as weak*

[Zer0ph34r]

I agree with AndyTony, mainly because I have already claimed to be town.

[Cephrir]

Then it wouldn't have been a tragedy if you had forgotten it, either. So there really was no point in posting the 'Note to Self' in the thread. Right? Everyone has little thoughts about players, but nobody really puts their little notes in the thread...especially when those thoughts are as unimportant as you're making your 'Note to Self' appear now.

I don't keep physical notes, and it would be slightly better for me to remember than to not.

What concerns me, Ceph, is that it seems like you could be posing as a scum hunter, but not really hunting anything...

Yeah, well what concerns me is your obnoxious playstyle of asking tons and tons of questions, waiting for someone to slip up and say something objectionable, while not actually contributing anything you can be attacked based on.

Posing as the good townie/voice of reason when you single-handedly stopped the fictitious runaway lynch wagon on AT.

Way to exaggerate. I just got the feeling it was going to happen... if I didn't say something, it seemed to me that AT would have been lynched over it. And sitting back and watching AT get lynched- which is what I thought inaction would amount to- is obviously the wrong decision.

Posing as the wily mafia hunter who was so crafty and deep under cover that you couldn't share your thoughts (but instead decided to leave little messages), lest you blow your important investigations.

As though I was anywhere near that dramatic about it.

The fact that you were third on Zero is also somewhat suspect to me. With all the heat having been on you, Zero could have represented a diversion. Getting on 1st or 2nd might have made you appear too eager, but jumping on the wagon 3rd could give it the nudge you might be hoping for.

Or alternatively, I decided to vote for someone because they're scummy. I'm sure you're going to take the high ground and defend him now that his wagon isn't amounting to anything, of course.

He asked Zero to claim - - Zero had a bit of pressure against him, he was in the spotlight, he even got a little snappy at us - - asking him to claim was fishing for one of those "meta scum claims" - and that earns:

Well I didn't mean I wanted him to claim immediately. As in, I'd like to see him run up to L-1 so that he'll have to claim. Which really isn't any more aggressive than placing a vote on him because it says "I would currently prefer to lynch this player if he's not a power role".

Perhaps he indeed had special knowledge that I would be alive in days to come - the same knowledge scum would have if he chose to keep me alive until he could later point at me and say "meta!"

That might make sense if I was using the meta to say that you're scummy, but I'm actually saying the reverse.

I agree with AndyTony, mainly because I have already claimed to be town.

Right, because obviously when I said I wanted you to claim it was because I expected you to claim mafia.

[Zer0ph34r]

Oh.

[Cephrir]

I said that wrong given the context of you actually claiming scum on occasion. It was sarcastic.

[MadCrawdad]

Yeah, well what concerns me is your obnoxious playstyle of asking tons and tons of questions, waiting for someone to slip up and say something objectionable, while not actually contributing anything you can be attacked based on.

Gee, Ceph. Why don't you tell me how you really feel?

Then it wouldn't have been a tragedy if you had forgotten it, either. So there really was no point in posting the 'Note to Self' in the thread. Right? Everyone has little thoughts about players, but nobody really puts their little notes in the thread...especially when those thoughts are as unimportant as you're making your 'Note to Self' appear now.

I don't keep physical notes, and it would be slightly better for me to remember than to not.

The thing is, though, if your 'Note to Self' was truly to remind you to mention AT's meta, you didn't have a few game days to do so. And you knew it. So why would you wait? Your information would have been much more urgent (and important) than you're claiming.

Posing as the good townie/voice of reason when you single-handedly stopped the fictitious runaway lynch wagon on AT.

Way to exaggerate. I just got the feeling it was going to happen... if I didn't say something, it seemed to me that AT would have been lynched over it. And sitting back and watching AT get lynched- which is what I thought inaction would amount to- is obviously the wrong decision.

Here you mention that you got the feeling that AT was going to be wrongfully lynched on D1, and had to act. So what's with the note to mention something in a few days? You strongly believe that AT is being lynched D1 (TODAY), but you're going to share a tidbit of info in a few days? It doesn't make sense.

When you posted your 'Note to Self,' you must have already had your feeling that AT was going be railroaded, as nothing much happened in the ten-or-so posts between your note and the revelation that you thought AT was going to be wrongfully lynched on D1:

Post 177 - Your 'Note to Self'
Post 178 - Kdub responds to Pitstop regarding lurking
Post 179 - AT responds to Pitstop and Zero
Post 180 - Me going V/LA for the weekend
Post 181 - You commenting on AT's sensitivity regarding his gameplay
Post 182 - AT responding to your comment regarding his sensitivity
Post 183 - Zero says 'Probably'.
Post 184 - ODDin defends AT and votes for Pitstop
Post 185 - ODDin asks that Corp be prodded
Post 186 - Corp says 'Here'.
Post 187 - You say that AT was looking like an easy D1 target, being pushed by Pitstop and you then vote Pitstop.

As you can see, nothing happened between posts 177 and 187 that should have made you any more convinced that AT was getting closer to a lynch. You would have had to have been concerned by post 177, and therefore your 'Note to Self' makes no sense, as you were worried that AT was being lynched today. Waiting a few days would accomplish nothing.

vote: Cephrir

I would encourage everyone to reread posts 177 through 187 to see if they think that any of those posts made things appear more dire for AT, and if Ceph's final explanation (clearing AT based on his meta) makes sense.

[Cephrir]

The thing is, though, if your 'Note to Self' was truly to remind you to mention AT's meta, you didn't have a few game days to do so. And you knew it. So why would you wait? Your information would have been much more urgent (and important) than you're claiming.

I I brought that up too early it would become all-but-worthless. Which it did.

When you posted your 'Note to Self,' you must have already had your feeling that AT was going be railroaded, as nothing much happened in the ten-or-so posts between your note and the revelation that you thought AT was going to be wrongfully lynched on D1:

Yeah, absolutely, but it's not like he was going to get 7 votes without me having a chance to say something.

[MadCrawdad]

When you posted your 'Note to Self,' you must have already had your feeling that AT was going be railroaded, as nothing much happened in the ten-or-so posts between your note and the revelation that you thought AT was going to be wrongfully lynched on D1:

Yeah, absolutely, but it's not like he was going to get 7 votes without me having a chance to say something.

Okay. So you're concerned that AT is going to be wrongfully lynched

today

. Therefore you post a note to yourself to say something about AT's meta in

a few days

. But if votes should happen to pile up, you'll say something then.

If that's the case, it kinda looks like you had thought about this a bit, and had a plan. So why would you have to remind yourself to say something?

None of it makes much sense.

[Cephrir]

I forget things.

Maybe I didn't think it all the way through but is that really good enough grounds for a vote?