Mini 761 - Game Over


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Post Post #1000 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:42 am

Post by Stephoscope »

Kise wrote:I'm good with Hoopla & Steph being candidates for a possible lynch. I don't favor the way they posted at the beginning of D4, asking who I targeted. And judging by past comments, it looks like they were the 1st two who wondered if Jazz would do a full-blown RC. Jazz made a softclaim, but by what I'm reading, Hoop & Steph blurted the question of whether she was the vig.
While I can't speak for Hoopla, I will respond to your points here. I asked who you targeted on night 3 because I was surprised there was only one death, and it's not like the scum is going to tell us what it did. I think asking about what you did is a total nulltell...while scum might be interested to know what you did, so would townies. Assuming you're a vig or an SK (I don't buy Hoopla's two-faction idea), no one else in the game really knows what you are, right?

As for Jazzmyn...softclaims are bad and anti-town. She had dropped enough hints that it was time to insist that she claim.

As for what I think...

I think there is a real case to be made against Hoopla today.

The strongest evidence against her, which I have never forgotten about all game, is referenced back in my post 374, back when AshKetchummm had her role. Ash started acting *really weird*, and now that we know LesterGroans (later dramonic) was scum, look how odd it is that Ash was apparently answering questions before they were asked (note posts 333 and 334...and then try to tell me who else Ash could have been "answering" in 333). Looks like evidence of nighttalking.

I also remember how she had Zach as a part of her top two scum combos, but then voted for Lester anyway. That didn't make sense to me...but maybe they'd agreed it was bussing time at that point with all innocents killed so far.

And while I'm the one who originally asked about game balance today, which I do think it's the right time to discuss, I'm not liking how Hoopla's quickly saying that I'm scum seemingly based only on her own guesses about the game setup. She may be kind of backed into a corner.
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Post Post #1001 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:43 am

Post by Zachrulez »

Zachrulez wrote:
I'm actually quite curious to hear what Stephoscope has to say, and who he suspects.
This is what I'm waiting on.
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Post Post #1002 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:44 am

Post by Zachrulez »

Bah, Simulpost, reading Steph's post now ^ _ ^
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Post Post #1003 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:48 am

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Stephoscope wrote:
I think there is a real case to be made against Hoopla today.

The strongest evidence against her, which I have never forgotten about all game, is referenced back in my post 374, back when AshKetchummm had her role. Ash started acting *really weird*, and now that we know LesterGroans (later dramonic) was scum, look how odd it is that Ash was apparently answering questions before they were asked (note posts 333 and 334...and then try to tell me who else Ash could have been "answering" in 333). Looks like evidence of nighttalking.

I also remember how she had Zach as a part of her top two scum combos, but then voted for Lester anyway. That didn't make sense to me...but maybe they'd agreed it was bussing time at that point with all innocents killed so far.

And while I'm the one who originally asked about game balance today, which I do think it's the right time to discuss, I'm not liking how Hoopla's quickly saying that I'm scum seemingly based only on her own guesses about the game setup. She may be kind of backed into a corner.
So Steph, since a lot of this strong evidence against Hoopla/Ash is from much earlier in the game, what prompted you to pursue me instead on day 3?
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Post Post #1004 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:50 am

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Vote Count


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: (1) Kise

Not Voting
: (4) Hoopla, ryan2754, Stephoscope, Zachrulez

Vote Threshold
: 3

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Post Post #1005 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:04 am

Post by Hoopla »

Kise wrote:I'm a dude..... not a she.. :(

And where does this talk of 2 separate scum factions come from? You're saying that Lester/dramonic was a 1-man goon squad, and there's 2 other anti-town players who are apart of a different mafia family from dramonic? Not that I'm trying to guess what kind of setup X would do, but I'm going to have to shoot down your theory of 2 mafia factions, Hoop.

If you think Steph is scum, then who's his partner? You called Ryan a possible scumbag, but also say you believe a cop is in this game... so if Ryan is scum, then who do you think is the real cop, and why haven't they CC'd Ryan yet?

You guys keep saying there's a SK here, which makes it seem like scum-panic on your part, trying to make me out to be an anti-town player. I promised not to VK any more, because I think we have a good chance to catch the remaining mafia by voting.
You're pretty feminine though.

No, you're misreading I'm saying we have 2 mafia, 1 SK. We have eliminated one of the mafia (Lester) and there is a partner to be found.

If this is the scenario - it's possible the other mafia member could be an RB, GF or some kind of role to balance against an SK. The only other possibility is that Kise is mafia, and not an SK.

Here's my logic; if ryan's claim is true, it (mostly) clears Zach. If ryan's claim is false he would likely be in a mafia team with another live player today and they're making this gambit to get the final mislynch. From a balance perspective it makes more sense to me we have a cop, and I tend to believe his claim based on his reasoning. So I'm going to assume ryan's claim is true now.

This leaves Steph, Kise and myself. I know I am town, and will do my best to convince you. If Kise is a vig, for balance reasons there would almost certainly be a single 3-player scum team (2 alive now). But that would have to mean ryan is lying. This is why I think Kise is mafia/SK - and why Steph is likely mafia too.

Of course I'm using the knowledge that I'm innocent in my process of elimination, so I'm trying to work out other ways to persuade you.

We know we have two independant killing roles alive. If people genuinely think Kise is a vig, then it is safe to assume there is a 3-scum team (2 alive now) - which would mean from your perspective I have to be scum with Steph. Do you all think this is more likely than Kise being anti-town?
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Post Post #1006 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:05 am

Post by Stephoscope »

Zachrulez wrote:So Steph, since a lot of this strong evidence against Hoopla/Ash is from much earlier in the game, what prompted you to pursue me instead on day 3?
I thought there were an awful lot of possibilities that made sense with you being scum (it's all detailed in 757, as I reminded you of several times that day). And later, I really thought I had you with the "fear" thing...I still think there may be something there, but I'm not nearly as convinced now, with Hoopla looking scummy, and her having called out both you and Lester/dramonic as highly possible scum (I don't think I see that happening with all three of you being scum). And also obviously, there's a claimed cop now clearing you, which throws an additional wrench in things.

Finally, while I truly never did forget about the strange things I talked about in 374, I'll admit that the Ash/Hoopla connection tended to slip my mind recently, given that Ash was a long time ago and Hoopla's play style was so much different. But I've re-read twice lately, and that post is just sticking out to me more now. Can anyone else even make sense of what is going on there?
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Post Post #1007 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:09 am

Post by Hoopla »

The good news is that I am quite certain of the scenarios I've listed so far, that if I am mislynched today, that will leave 1 mafia, 1 SK and 2 town players going into night. It's in both scum-groups interests to kill each other to avoid a draw, so I think that even if we mislynch me today we still have a chance. Or there is 2 mafia alive now, Kise actually is a vig, but that would mean ryan is lying, but that is far less likely I believe. Definitely not worth risking.

Obviously I don't want that situation to happen (me dying), but based on my role I'm pretty sure the game won't be over if I get lynched. I'm still deciding which is better for us - Steph or a Kise lynch. I'll place a vote soon.
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Post Post #1008 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:13 am

Post by Kise »

Hoopla, I see what you're doing... You're saying that I'm SK, and dramonic only has one partner that's currently alive, right?

So you want to bus whomever is mafia (Steph?) and that way, we think we killed the last mafia member and you're a townie angel. But since I'm supposedly the SK, I gotta be lynched for the town to win?

I see through your plan. Sorry.

Confirm Vote: Hoopla


I already told you I wouldn't do another VK. Now if you are scum, and you're trying to bus your partner today, then you'll send in a NK and blame me by disguising it as one of my VKs, right?
They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.

Yet…
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Post Post #1009 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:19 am

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Kise wrote:Hoopla, I see what you're doing... You're saying that I'm SK, and dramonic only has one partner that's currently alive, right?

So you want to bus whomever is mafia (Steph?) and that way, we think we killed the last mafia member and you're a townie angel. But since I'm supposedly the SK, I gotta be lynched for the town to win?

I see through your plan. Sorry.

Confirm Vote: Hoopla


I already told you I wouldn't do another VK. Now if you are scum, and you're trying to bus your partner today, then you'll send in a NK and blame me by disguising it as one of my VKs, right?
Stop lying. Actually don't, otherwise the game would be boring. Since you say you're a vig, you must believe there are two mafia members alive, right?

If yes, you must believe my partner to be Steph, or ryan is lying. Which is more likely of these two?

If you think my partner is Steph, let's lynch him, since you're accusing me of bussing.
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Post Post #1010 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:23 am

Post by Hoopla »

Sorry to be a pest, but I need to go for a day or two. I'll do my best to check in when I can! I hope you don't lynch me in that time, I think we've just about cracked the game!
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Post Post #1011 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:24 am

Post by Stephoscope »

Hoopla wrote:If you think my partner is Steph, let's lynch him, since you're accusing me of bussing.
Nice try.

Vote: Hoopla


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Post Post #1012 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:25 am

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Hoopla wrote:Sorry to be a pest, but I need to go for a day or two. I'll do my best to check in when I can! I hope you don't lynch me in that time, I think we've just about cracked the game!
Oh for the love of God. Lynch please.
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Post Post #1013 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:34 am

Post by Zachrulez »

I'm trying to think if there's anything else I want from you before I hammer Steph.

I'm trying to determine if your suspicion of me was genuine or not.
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Post Post #1014 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:38 am

Post by Zachrulez »

Also has Hoopla addressed my post where I pointed out her 180 on Alexhans, or has she just craftily tried to make it about who must be scum based on the setup?

I just want to make sure I didn't miss that in any of what I read of her posts.
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Post Post #1015 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:43 am

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Vote Count


Hoopla
: (2) Kise, Stephoscope

Not Voting
: (3) Hoopla, ryan2754, Zachrulez

Vote Threshold
: 3

Happiness with Posting Level
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Satisifed
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Post Post #1016 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:58 am

Post by Stephoscope »

Zachrulez wrote:I'm trying to think if there's anything else I want from you before I hammer Steph.

I'm trying to determine if your suspicion of me was genuine or not.
It absolutely was (is?)

And no, Hoopla tried to manipulate Kise and then apparently took off, well after you and I had posted our points against her.
Hoopla wrote:If you think my partner is Steph, let's lynch him, since you're accusing me of bussing.
"You think I'm scum? Well then just lynch this person you think I'm bussing, instead."

Come on now.
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Post Post #1017 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:02 am

Post by Zachrulez »

So do you still think I'm scum or not?
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Post Post #1018 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:11 am

Post by Stephoscope »

Zachrulez wrote:So do you still think I'm scum or not?
Honestly, I still can't figure out the whole "fear" thing.

But you're cleared by a claimed cop...and Hoopla's earlier suspicion of you and her speculation about the game setup brings up a whole lot of WIFOM.

I'm not going to say I can fully clear you, but you're looking much better today based on things that were seemingly out of your control, and Hoopla is looking guilty as sin...so chances are you're not scum.
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Post Post #1019 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:12 am

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Hoopla wrote:Since you say you're a vig, you must believe there are two mafia members alive, right?

If yes, you must believe my partner to be Steph, or ryan is lying. Which is more likely of these two?
Right now, you're the only person I don't get a good vibe from. I'll focus on you today, and if we enter N5 like I'm thinking we will, then from there everyone can worry about the final mafia member.
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Post Post #1020 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:21 am

Post by Zachrulez »

Hoopla, if you have anything pressing to say, you better do it now.
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Post Post #1021 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:24 am

Post by Zachrulez »

EBWOP : Hoopla, if you have anything pressing to say, you better say it now.

I'm giving Hoopla about 2 and a half hours or so to respond (until I get home from work.) and then I'm hammering.
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Post Post #1022 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:29 am

Post by Kise »

I wish I was a doublevoter.
They have escaped into the mansion where they thought it was safe.

Yet…
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Post Post #1023 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:07 pm

Post by Zachrulez »

Alright, it's hammer time.

Vote: Hoopla
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Post Post #1024 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:59 pm

Post by X »

Vote Count


Hoopla
: (3) Kise, Stephoscope, Zachrulez


Not Voting
: (2) Hoopla, ryan2754

Vote Threshold
: 3

Happiness with Posting Level
:
Unimportant


Hoopla, Vanilla Townie
, was lynched D4.

Mafia wins!


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