Mini 788 - Fantasy Mafia [OVER]

[Starbuck]

ZazieR, in response to

You've got nothing to say about the posts I made?
Not even some answers?"

You wrote quite a bit and I am still trying to catch up. Not condensing everything into one post is making it kind of hard to keep up. It's why I use Notepad to type up my posts before I post them.


KMD and Andy are still high on my suspicions.

Post 66 bothers me a lot. This is luckily questioned and Starbuck later gives some explanations:

Why do you think we should be going for Emp?

It was just a question. I'm not sure which way we should be going as I have never played with any of you before. I don't know how you play when you are scum or when you are townie, and the same for everyone else.

Ok, but why specifically did you suggest Empking? Why didn't you instead say "shouldn't we be looking at Goat? or "shouldn't we be looking at KMD?" What made you pull Empking out of the pack?

Because Emp was the other person recently being discussed.

The reason why this bothers me, is because she doesn't ask why. She saw two players being discussed, asked why not that one instead of him and that's it. Yet, for somebody who doesn't know how the players here play as scum or town (as she stated), I'd expect that she'd ask why Bear and Empking were being discussed. So Starbuck, why's that?

First off, even though you know Orto as Bear and others as their real names, can you please refer to them as whatever name they are posting as rather than a name that's not being used in this game? It makes things confusing.


That's all I had meant my question as there were reasons put out against Orto and I had saw a bit of discussion about Emp, but no reasons.

In post 148, Star finally states finally her suspicions.
-Why didn't you respond right after the posts where you got the quotes you put up in that post from, Star?

Because I live in Italy because I'm stationed here with the Navy, and a lot of the time all I get to do is read to catch up and not add any posts of substance.

Why no vote on your top suspicion?

Because I'm not really sure which one I want to vote for yet, because I have two.



I'll be back to add more but I have to go on watch.

[SensFan]

Mixologist;Empking;TonyMontana have been prodded.

[Empking]

Mod: VC?

[SensFan]

I was

GOING

to edit this into my above post...

Starbuck - 3 (Mixologist, Empking, ZazieR)
Andycyca - 2 (Tony, ortolan)
ortolan - 2 (Sudo, Shadow)
KMD - 1 (Goatrevolt)
orangepenguin - 1 (KMD)

Not voting - 3 (Starbuck, Andycyca, orangepenguin)

[Empking]

Goat: Second from first reason why you're voting KMD?

[TonyMontana]

Star, taking shots at "everyone" is me thinking I have the 3 scum found and going after those three players. How am I being insulting or defensive?

The

3 scum? Really? Not just 3 scum, but

the

3, implying you know how many scum there are.

I've learned now a few times that 'slips' are bad to follow. So I don't think it's important.
However, you are also one of the few who voted Andy at the start of this game. What's your opinion of him now?

Making a general statement about "slips" is suspect logic. Some slips

are

worth following. And I think this slip is worth noting, as I've seen it made before.

Regrading andy, I don't think my opinion had not been swayed much, but I need to catch up after the holiday weekend.

[ZazieR]

More or less. Her center was right, which makes me believe she was thinking along townie lines. As such, I give her the benefit of the doubt, and believe that her idea was a mistake, not a deliberate scum maneuver.

Ok, I really want to believe that I'm right and Star had scummy intentions in trying to out power roles, but your logic is just too good to argue against.

Unvote

ORLY? Check again.
And like I said, the only thing that's scummy about Kevin is that he wasn't his normal stubborn self regarding Andy.

Heh. You're

really

gonna be suspicious of me after the unvote above.

How'd you guess?


Also, is your vote against OP serious or for pressure?
And why him, instead of one of the other less active players?
Last, but not least:

OP, you were....so useful.

(Or something like that >.<)
Do you have something to say about this quote regarding OP's play in this game?

[ZazieR]

Playing anti-town is not a scumtell. Using anti-town play as reason to vote somebody is a scumtell though.

No it isn't.

And

I'm not even voting him.

In my games, it has been proven to be true many times. Links may be requested.
Also, you think that Sudo is scum based upon anti-town reasons. Unless you're a vig, you have to vote him to get him lynched. But for clarification, suspicions based upon anti-town reasons are scumtells. Happy now?

Also, didn't you play deliberately neutral according to you at the start of this game?

No, unorthodox.

I undertook a course of behaviour which is nonsensical, but not clearly pro-town or pro-scum- calling for quicklynches of random players is inherently neutral and, probabilistically, is as likely to hit scum as any other form of non-specific pressure.

You clearly disagree.

My point was about Sudo's playstyle, that he has used it as town. Which means that it's not a complete scumtell. Yet, you think it is. It is indeed possible that he uses this playstyle as scum. But because he has used it as town, it it more a nulltell than a scumtell. Do you agree, or not? And why?

I don't care about his meta, useless divergence is anti-town, especially when he's done little else to contribute meaningfully to the game.

Looky, looky. The one who has accused me falsely each time of forgetting a questiong is doing it himself for reals.
But before I respond to this part, are lurking and active lurking anti-town to you and why?

And you did use it against him, as you added that meta is useless against someone with a scummie award.

No I'm afraid I didn't. I said it was useless and

particularly so because he had a scummie award and is presumably half-decent

. I doubt I'd have been bothered metaing him regardless.

Bolded to show that you did use it against him.
But as should be known, I'm not using it against you. This should have been obv from the first time I mentioned it.

What overreaction? I gave a post in which Sudo has stated that he saw you as suspicious. Where's the overreaction?

You have misunderstood. I am saying "overreacting" is definitely

not

a scum-tell.

Uhm, no. You said this:

Uhm, with a post like this you should be able to find the answer to that.

I

hate

overreacting as a scum-tell in the way you've used it here. All I did was justify myself and question votes on me etc. which I always do as town and scum. I always dislike votes on me and am particularly allergic to scum voting me (or others) with crappy reasons and not being called into question for it.

If it wasn't in response to the quote of mine that was included, then why did you quote it?
And if it was in response to that quote, I ask again, what overreaction?

No, you're question was:

Yet again you dodge the question. In this context,

if

my vote was OMGUS, was it a scumtell

And look, I did answer that. Once again, you state that I didn't answer something, while I clearly did.
Also, I did answer your question in above quote in the first post of our discussion:

When you made the vote, I can see why it could be seen as OMGUS as you didn't give any reason why. Later when you explained, I agree that it wasn't OMGUS.

No, you referred to a vague hypothetical and said "if your vote was OMGUS...." etc. The fact you've conceded it wasn't makes me wonder why you are labouring this point.

Uhm, excuse me?! Check what you asked. It was even quoted by you, but this time I've included some bolding.
Seriously, your question included 'if', so you get an answer with 'if'. And still you're not happy and use it even against me.
And it should be obv why I'm still labouring (whatever that may mean) on it.

You were accused of acting deliberately scummy. Your defence was a fallacy.
And why are you surprised that you have to argue this with me?

This doesn't even deserve a response.

Best move if you're scum and have no defence. Very bad if you're town like you say you are.
Oh, and of course other than that, it's very childish.

Or I think you are scummy, and I might vote you for this later?

That's what I was calling you out on it. I suspect you are biding your time in an attempt to appear less scummy.

Ohh, I love speculation. Well, my guess is that you're using this in order to make me look black when I do vote you. But if I don't, you'll accuse me of not following my suspicions with a vote.
Based upon this same interest, we'll be best buddies for life.
Anyway, I'm investigating another lead as well, while discussing with you. It will all depend on what that lead will give.

Also, strange enough, the wagon on Andy is already diverted. So tell me why I as possible scumbuddy of possible scum Andy would do something which has already happened before I got in?

Huh?

The Andy wagon has died a long time ago as he isn't scummy. I even wonder if you can actually remember the case against him.

Your point of the part behind the part saying you still think he's town?

Huh?

It stands. Reading over his posts I would still lean town over him, also.

However I know with both these players that letting them live through to the late-game without scrutiny can be very unwise. They are equally capable of lurking to end-game as both scum and town.

I meant the bolded. What's the point behind that?

What was the purpose of your vote on Starbuck?

If I wanted it to be known, I'd have told so. Just be patient.

[ZazieR]

First off, even though you know Orto as Bear and others as their real names, can you please refer to them as whatever name they are posting as rather than a name that's not being used in this game? It makes things confusing.

Nope I have reasons why I call Bear Bear and Kmd Kevin.

Post 66 bothers me a lot. This is luckily questioned and Starbuck later gives some explanations:

Why do you think we should be going for Emp?

It was just a question. I'm not sure which way we should be going as I have never played with any of you before. I don't know how you play when you are scum or when you are townie, and the same for everyone else.

Ok, but why specifically did you suggest Empking? Why didn't you instead say "shouldn't we be looking at Goat? or "shouldn't we be looking at KMD?" What made you pull Empking out of the pack?

Because Emp was the other person recently being discussed.

The reason why this bothers me, is because she doesn't ask why. She saw two players being discussed, asked why not that one instead of him and that's it. Yet, for somebody who doesn't know how the players here play as scum or town (as she stated), I'd expect that she'd ask why Bear and Empking were being discussed. So Starbuck, why's that?

That's all I had meant my question as there were reasons put out against Orto and I had saw a bit of discussion about Emp, but no reasons.

Uhm, that doesn't answer my question. My question was why you didn't ask for the reasons why both Empking and Bear were being discussed.
Apparently, you saw reasons why Bear was being discussed, but no reasons why Empking was being discussed. So why didn't you ask for the reasons for that discussion?

Because I live in Italy because I'm stationed here with the Navy, and a lot of the time all I get to do is read to catch up and not add any posts of substance.

Is the Navy part the explanation, or the part that you live in Italy? Or both?

Because I'm not really sure which one I want to vote for yet, because I have two.

One has two votes, the other one. Which would be more likely to vote if you suspect both?

[ZazieR]

Star, taking shots at "everyone" is me thinking I have the 3 scum found and going after those three players. How am I being insulting or defensive?

The

3 scum? Really? Not just 3 scum, but

the

3, implying you know how many scum there are.

I've learned now a few times that 'slips' are bad to follow. So I don't think it's important.
However, you are also one of the few who voted Andy at the start of this game. What's your opinion of him now?

Making a general statement about "slips" is suspect logic. Some slips

are

worth following. And I think this slip is worth noting, as I've seen it made before.

Regarding andy, I don't think my opinion had not been swayed much, but I need to catch up after the holiday weekend.

If you think it's worth nothing, then why point it out?

[ZazieR]

Goat's post and Bear - Sudo discussion have to wait till tomorrow.
Though when I skimmed, Goat's post lessened my suspicions.

[Kmd4390]

Heh. You're

really

gonna be suspicious of me after the unvote above.

How'd you guess?


Also, is your vote against OP serious or for pressure?
And why him, instead of one of the other less active players?
Last, but not least:

OP, you were....so useful.

(Or something like that >.<)
Do you have something to say about this quote regarding OP's play in this game?[/quote]

My vote on OP is completely serious. He is my top scum suspect. He has posted, but done absolutely nothing. He said he'd catch up a few times, and didn't.

The "useful" thing is from the lovers game and means nothing here. I will always want him alive when I am scum though.

[orangepenguin]

The "useful" thing is from the lovers game and means nothing here. I will always want him alive when I am scum though.

*remembers this for future reference*

If KMD appears to like you and thinks you're scum, vote him immediately.

[Kmd4390]

The "useful" thing is from the lovers game and means nothing here. I will always want him alive when I am scum though.

*remembers this for future reference*

If KMD appears to like you and thinks you're scum, vote him immediately.

Thinking your scum would have nothing to do with it. I'd be more likely to buddy up and call you town so you don't get lynched.

Wanna add some content now?

[TonyMontana]

Star, taking shots at "everyone" is me thinking I have the 3 scum found and going after those three players. How am I being insulting or defensive?

The

3 scum? Really? Not just 3 scum, but

the

3, implying you know how many scum there are.

I've learned now a few times that 'slips' are bad to follow. So I don't think it's important.
However, you are also one of the few who voted Andy at the start of this game. What's your opinion of him now?

Making a general statement about "slips" is suspect logic. Some slips

are

worth following. And I think this slip is worth noting, as I've seen it made before.

Regarding andy, I don't think my opinion had not been swayed much, but I need to catch up after the holiday weekend.

If you think it's worth nothing, then why point it out?

Are you joking? worth

noting

. As in worth noting down/pointing out.

[ZazieR]

Heh. You're

really

gonna be suspicious of me after the unvote above.

How'd you guess?


Also, is your vote against OP serious or for pressure?
And why him, instead of one of the other less active players?
Last, but not least:

OP, you were....so useful.

(Or something like that >.<)
Do you have something to say about this quote regarding OP's play in this game?

My vote on OP is completely serious. He is my top scum suspect. He has posted, but done absolutely nothing. He said he'd catch up a few times, and didn't.

The "useful" thing is from the lovers game and means nothing here. I will always want him alive when I am scum though.

You fail at quote tags.
Anyway, about that part where you say that your vote against OP is serious, I'd like to restate this question that you didn't answer from that post:

And why him, instead of one of the other less active players?

Actually to make it obv what I'm asking you, what has Shadow done that he doesn't deserve your vote? Because I see the same behaviour from both.

My point about the quote was that you've played with OP before. I'd like to know what the difference is between how he played in those games and here.

[ZazieR]

EPWOB

I will always want him alive when I am scum though.

Forgot to address this part.

Why?
And now that this is known, would you play different to OP than this in your next game with him if you're scum?

[ZazieR]

Star, taking shots at "everyone" is me thinking I have the 3 scum found and going after those three players. How am I being insulting or defensive?

The

3 scum? Really? Not just 3 scum, but

the

3, implying you know how many scum there are.

I've learned now a few times that 'slips' are bad to follow. So I don't think it's important.
However, you are also one of the few who voted Andy at the start of this game. What's your opinion of him now?

Making a general statement about "slips" is suspect logic. Some slips

are

worth following. And I think this slip is worth noting, as I've seen it made before.

Regarding andy, I don't think my opinion had not been swayed much, but I need to catch up after the holiday weekend.

If you think it's worth nothing, then why point it out?

Are you joking? worth

noting

. As in worth noting down/pointing out.

Sorry, I misread.

[Kmd4390]

Anyway, about that part where you say that your vote against OP is serious, I'd like to restate this question that you didn't answer from that post:

And why him, instead of one of the other less active players?

Actually to make it obv what I'm asking you, what has Shadow done that he doesn't deserve your vote? Because I see the same behaviour from both.

My point about the quote was that you've played with OP before. I'd like to know what the difference is between how he played in those games and here.

Because OP is scummy and he caught my attention.

Shadow hasn't really done anything and I haven't taken the time to look into him.

I don't really have much reliable meta on OP. I know that he can contribute more than he has though.

[Kmd4390]

EPWOB

I will always want him alive when I am scum though.

Forgot to address this part.

Why?
And now that this is known, would you play different to OP than this in your next game with him if you're scum?

Because he is quick to vote in LYLO.

And I won't even go into the whole WIFOM thing of what I'd do in my next game with OP where I'm scum.

[SensFan]

Andy needed a replacement, and he found DizzyIzzy.

Thanks to Andy (for finding a replacement) and Dizzy (for, you know, replacing)!

[Goatrevolt]

ZazieR, I anxiously await your reply to my post.

[Shadow Knight]

For those of us who have to read in snippets at work, can it NOT be in wall o text form when you do reply? I spend my whole break reading and don't have much time to post. /rant

I'll try to log in from home over the weekend.

[Empking]

Dizzy: Thoughts on Star?

[ZazieR]

ZazieR, I anxiously await your reply to my post.

Good to know, but I have to go soon. This is a very special day to me