Mafia 95 - Quick & Dirty - Game Over!

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Now, let me be clear: I kind of see the logic in what Kise is saying. He claimed a power role, and maybe we should give him the chance to actually prove it instead of auto-lynching just because of some... scummy play.

Fail. He's claimed Cop. It's a popular fake-claim for scum precisely because you cannot test it and it can only be proven or disproven upon the death of the claimed cop. Scummy play + Cop claim usually = Scum.

[Lamont_Cranston]

All I said was that my role is plain.

So just because I said my role is plain means I'm automatically mafia who wants to hide behind a basic role?

I can't be a townie trying to avoid NK?

Well not really because all you are really doing is letting the scum know you aren't a PR which

helps scum.

That's not something a townie does.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vote: Blood Covenant

For pushing for the role claim so quickly. It was a stupid move to try and hint at being plain, but I'm not willing to lynch a claimed cop without a counter claim and

I don't want someone to come out just to counter claim on day one.

Pardon me but doesn't that catch scum guaranteed??

FoS Cater

PS I'm catching up on this thread and still evaluating whether to keep my vote on Kise here.

[Lamont_Cranston]

EBWOP: Oh, there's a fifth page...

Kise's real claim is a bit odd to me. Even numbered nights? Okay, maybe... but this could also be a clever claim attempt by him to at least keep himself alive till D3, WHILE ALSO drawing Doc protection (assuming there is a Doc) for N1 & N2 due to his claim. He claimed I have a plain role... his original vote was that someone's role was better than his... etc. etc... and now suddenly he has an even-numbered investigative role?

Nah. Keeping my vote. Not convinced, nor do I think we're going to get another lynch going by 10pm.

QFT. You know a townie Cop should be

ecstatic

over that role. They wouldn't do

ANYTHING

to get votes on them.

You have clearly shown here how un-townlike Kise has acted.

Excellent point.

[Lamont_Cranston]

If you guys want to justify an intentional mislynch, be my guest. That's the only reason you don't want to unvote.

Why would you risk lynching a powerful ally to town

, over your own stubborn gut-feeling that I'm scum? Sorry to be one to tell you, but there's no such thing as fool-proof scumhunting. Nobody is perfect when it comes to finding out scum.

So how's this going to work; I'm staying in the hot seat for the rest of D1? Ok... That'll work highly in favor of anti-town since this whole fiasco is a good enough distraction to keep suspicion off everyone else.

Do you see how BADLY you played this if you ARE a Cop??

[BloodCovenent]

My vote stands. I don't buy Kise's claim.

[Papa Zito]

Now, let me be clear: I kind of see the logic in what Kise is saying. He claimed a power role, and maybe we should give him the chance to actually prove it instead of auto-lynching just because of some... scummy play.

Fail. He's claimed Cop. It's a popular fake-claim for scum precisely because you cannot test it and it can only be proven or disproven upon the death of the claimed cop. Scummy play + Cop claim usually = Scum.

He actually didn't even claim cop. All he said was that he had a night action on even-numbered nights.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

He said he could investigate people. So he's cop or cop-like. Either way, the point stands. It also makes him seem even more scummy for the way he claimed to be claiming without actually claiming out-right.

[Lamont_Cranston]

After my analysis I don't think there is ANY way that Kise is a townie Cop here.

I think at the very least he is fake-claiming cop as vanilla to protect his own skin.

His

logic-behavior dynamic

is so contradictory, there is defiinitely some sort of lying going on here.

I have that feeling again like when scum is about to flip and you just know it.

At the very least he is lying about something and deserves a LAL as a town liability.

[Lamont_Cranston]

If you guys want to justify an intentional mislynch, be my guest. That's the only reason you don't want to unvote.

Why would you risk lynching a powerful ally to town, over your own stubborn gut-feeling that I'm scum? Sorry to be one to tell you, but there's no such thing as fool-proof scumhunting. Nobody is perfect when it comes to finding out scum.

So how's this going to work; I'm staying in the hot seat for the rest of D1? Ok... That'll work highly in favor of anti-town since this whole fiasco is a good enough distraction to keep suspicion off everyone else.

I don't want to unvote you because you're scummy as hell and you've claimed something that will take us days to verify. I'm sure this isn't coincidence.

However, I can't deny the logic of your last point.

Can you please detail out this

undeniable logic

for me? I am truly curious...

[Xylthixlm]

Papa Zito and xRECKONERx need to get their votes back on the obvious scum

[Xylthixlm]

And DizzyIzzy, your vote should clearly be on Kise

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Dizzy: Your posts have been totally oozing with logic lately. Any reason your RVS vote still stands?

[Lamont_Cranston]

LOL crosspost!

[Kise]

Tunneling isn't attractive, Xyl.

@Lamont - How would it look if I didn't try to hide my role? The reason I called it plain at first is because I did not think we'd get as far as to me having to RC. And the reason I didn't care to RC before BloodCovenant pushed for one is because I'm sure mafia would need a good candidate for NK. Why would I say anything other than my role is plain? If I let mafia know (earlier) that I had a PR, I may have avoided L-2, but I definitely could not avoid a nightkill from them.

You're making a big deal because I wanted to lie about my power role? There's nothing wrong with that because it's a good thing to lie to my enemies, especially when they're wolves in sheep's clothing.

Unvote

It probably is not guaranteed that there is an odd-night investigator here, but if there is, Dizzy should be looked into. I plan to inspect Xyl on N2.

Again, if there is someone who can investigate on odd-nights, don't step up just yet.

[Phoebus]

I was going to vote for Blood Covenant after his sudden vote on Kise, from holding the phone to voting in two posts.

However, I'm going to join him.

vote: Kise

A soft claim

Then refusal to claim.

Then claiming even numbered action.
In the same post, second para hinted at investigation.

In the midst of all this, the attempt at belligerent indifference.

I also don't like cateraction's deflection.

cateraction dislikes "Kise claim" in his very first post but wants to hang back since it's L-2

Next post he's concerned about the speed of the bandwagon and now wants to talk until deadline.

@Kise: You used the word plain. I have a hard time believing you didn't think about the implications of using that word. You tried to claim vanilla, but got caught and now you're trying to backtrack. Are you claiming one of those roles you suggested?

Looking at how the situation developed and looking at all posts only by cateraction, this sounds almost like coaching a fellow player towards attempting to salvage a bad situation.

For pushing for the role claim so quickly. It was a stupid move to try and hint at being plain, but I'm not willing to lynch a claimed cop without a counter claim and I don't want someone to come out just to counter claim on day one.

Now trying to shift focus to Blood Covenant.
As I said, I was considering this the moment I read BC's post.
Yet, because Kise's terrible phrasing in his actual claim and cateraction's immediate shift, I see some sort of tag teaming going on here and am fine with my vote.

If Kise flips scum, I will be voting cateraction tomorrow.

Anyone else not like BC looking for a claim so quickly? I feel like he was rushing the lynch. We do have a week still.

Latest post - trying to drum up support for their cause. Reiterating the deadline's distance - trying to draw things out.

I think I'm good to go with this one.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Tunneling isn't attractive, Xyl.

@Lamont - How would it look if I didn't try to hide my role?

I'm sorry but there was no need to claim with you at L-5 in the RVS stage. The town move is to play it cool and scumhunt. In fact the town move would of been to cite games where you and Phoebus played together and you guys had that joke before.

The reason I called it plain at first is because I did not think we'd get as far as to me having to RC.

Soft-claiming is never pro-village; it forces a liability onto the village where they are forced to make you full-claim. It was also anti-town for you to soft-claim because you (supposedly) were cop and should of not claimed anything in order to protect that (at L-5).

You're making a big deal because I wanted to lie about my power role? There's nothing wrong with that because it's a good thing to lie to my enemies, especially when they're wolves in sheep's clothing.

Tell me right now how as Cop your behavior makes any sense?

Why did you draw so much attention to yourself?

How is it you felt the need to claim ANYTHING when you were only at L-5 in the RVS??

You know they say that spies are often caught, not because they have been somehow discovered, but because they

think

they have been discovered and act out even though no actual suspicion was on them.

I see a much stronger case for panicking scum here.

[Xylthixlm]

Phoebus: I'm not seeing the Kise-cateraction link, really. xRECKONERx's unvote of Kise while calling him "scummy" is much more suspicious.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vote: Blood Covenant

For pushing for the role claim so quickly. It was a stupid move to try and hint at being plain, but I'm not willing to lynch a claimed cop without a counter claim and

I don't want someone to come out just to counter claim on day one.

Pardon me but doesn't that catch scum guaranteed??

FoS Cater

[BloodCovenent]

Phoebus: I'm not seeing the Kise-cateraction link, really. xRECKONERx's unvote of Kise while calling him "scummy" is much more suspicious.

No, i see a link as well with Cater-Kise. Just never pursued it that much. I think that Phoebus summed up my concerns towards him pretty well. Are you thinking of maybe a scum Trio there?

[ConsonantM]

Online 'n reading. This'll take a few minutes.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm blind, I misread that post lamont quoted. I thought it was before the claim.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

unvote: Xylthixm

Thanks for pointing out I still had my random vote standing. Kise has done nothing to seem less scummy. He's played his alleged investigative role terribly is he's town.

vote: Kise

[Papa Zito]

He said he could investigate people. So he's cop or cop-like. Either way, the point stands. It also makes him seem even more scummy for the way he claimed to be claiming without actually claiming out-right.

He actually never said he can investigate people, if you read what he said carefully.

I have a night action I can perform on even numbered nights (N2, N4, N6, etc.).

There must be someone out there who can perform investigations on odd numbered nights, so don't say anything.

Just stay in the shadows and do your thing during the 1st NP. Until then, it's a good idea for me to be protected tonight because I'm honestly more important than I hoped to make everyone believe... surprising?

The bolded portion is all his claim amounts to. You can make the assumption that his night action is an investigation by the italicized bit, but he hasn't outright claimed that ability. I've seen games where a mafia doctor can protect on even nights and a mafia cop can investigate on odd nights, or something similar, so to me he may not even be lying but that doesn't make him town.

I think we need a full claim to put any speculation about his role to rest. As it stands now it just looks like wriggle room for later: "Well, I never

said

... if you guys go back and read..." etc.

[Xylthixlm]

Phoebus: I'm not seeing the Kise-cateraction link, really. xRECKONERx's unvote of Kise while calling him "scummy" is much more suspicious.

No, i see a link as well with Cater-Kise. Just never pursued it that much. I think that Phoebus summed up my concerns towards him pretty well. Are you thinking of maybe a scum Trio there?

3 scum + an SK would be normal for a game this size