Mini 792 - Tofu Mafia. Game over!

[Elmo]

but when I mention a suspicion of Elmo for his defense of Artem he immediately chimes in that he has had similar thoughts

This phrasing is disingenuous; he did not say he suspected me. He said he found Artem scummy, but did not think I was scum defending a buddy, which bothered him. There is no contradiction.

I am starting to get a feel for Elmo-scum.

On the basis of what - defending Artem? Attacking Herod? Unbridled OMGUS?

I have not forgotten about your Artem vote, either. "Bandwagon fishing", what utter bullshit.

[Korts]

On the basis of what - defending Artem? Attacking Herod? Unbridled OMGUS?

Defending Artem and gut. The accusation of OMGUS is seriously laughable.

[Elmo]

a lot of the case on him is the blunders in logic, which are not inherently scummy

SO WHY WERE YOU EVER VOTING HIM, THEN?

Actually, I call bullshit. Not only were your reasons for voting Artem terrible, but nothing has affected those reasons since you cast your vote. You cite "his attacks on those attacking him" as a reason to back off, but all of those took place before post 331, where you were still strongly attacking him. The only reason you're getting off is because the bandwagon is waning and you want to hop onto someone else.

[Elmo]

So let's be clear, you are simultaneously saying:
* A lot of the case against Artem is for things that are not scummy
* You are suspicious of me for defending Artem

[Zorblag]

Troll has a bit of catching up to do here. The name dropping idea be an interesting one though Troll will have to ask some questions to clear a few things up.

SpyreX, do you be including quoted parts of the posts? Vi's mentioning of Troll seems on the high side but Vi does quote Troll more than most and Troll uses the word Troll much.

Zorblag has the biggest difference between who he talks about the most, and who he talks about the least.

Do you be using some metric other than the max - min here (or perhaps ratio of max/min) or do you be looking at who has talked about Troll rather than who Troll has talked about? Or does Troll have those confused somehow? The way Troll be reading the data your statement there seems odd.

Korts is very quiet on the subject of springlullaby, quieter than his average on Herodotus (is this fair? hm), and about average on Zorblag.

That be an interesting take on those numbers as Troll reads them. Troll also be a bit curious about why you no did look at what Troll has said about Herodotus, Korts and springlullaby given the rest of post 448.

There be other things to say as well but Troll no has time this morning. Troll does see some questions addressed to Troll which Troll will get to.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Ectomancer]

Herodotus Drop

Korts: 4
Zorblag: 6

Well hello there.

Mine was very low as well with these two. Probably just not creating waves. I was going to complain about the relative uselessness of these graphs (for me anyhow), but I don't think this is insignificant.

Anyhow, why didst thou point out Hero's mentions on these two? It appears to be a general trend and not just a Hero thing.

So 2 things, we've got Korts and Troll keeping low profiles (or at least low enough that people aren't really talking about them much).
We've got Elmo picking out Hero's mention of 2 players from a field of daisies. Tunnelvision or impatience? Smells dirty.
Spyrex doesn't like long days, but is generating some of these long dull graphing posts. Negative emotion from me, however it is mitigated by the fact that I believe it generated 2 items worthy of note.

Porkens, I've noted that you are still waiting on 2 items from Adel. I don't recall you getting them, and I noticed he latched on to the graph thing. I realize he can't resist them, but still...

unvote

I don't like Elmo and I don't like Korts and I dislike the noise between them without much action.

[Korts]

SO WHY WERE YOU EVER VOTING HIM, THEN?

BECAUSE I DIDN'T ALWAYS HAVE THE SAME OPINION OF HIM OR HIS ACTIONS.

Actually, I call bullshit. Not only were your reasons for voting Artem terrible, but nothing has affected those reasons since you cast your vote.

No,

I

call bullshit. Have you noticed Adel questioning whether I was attacking Artem for actual scumtells? That is not "nothing".

So let's be clear, you are simultaneously saying:
* A lot of the case against Artem is for things that are not scummy
* You are suspicious of me for defending Artem

This is correct. Artem can defend himself.

[Korts]

unvote

until I catch up.

[Vi]

Re: "namedrop analysis" - It was an interesting idea at first, but I think it's being blown into the realm of useless statistics now.
I also agree with Troll's objection, as Vi be using Trollspeak to reply to Troll - though the objection no be worth much IMO.
Whatever happened to just keeping track of who thinks what about whom and rereading if you don't remember?

To that end, I seriously have to question Herodotus pushing it here--

I think a full analysis could be useful, but there are issues like nicknames:
For me, add 3 for "PT", 5 for "tajo" and 1 for "Tajo" meaning populartajo. And 6 for "SL" meaning springlullaby. There may be others, but I don't recall them.
Another issue is that we've used pronouns, too.

I would argue that dropping names is more significant than dropping pronouns, but in the grand scheme of things, none of this really matters. This was started to objectively demonstrate a you-Adel link. Nobody else comes close even after all the corrections. (Whether this is a 95% certain link is up to you to decide <_< )

-----

Vi, perhaps I'm being thick, but I still have like no idea what you disagree with me about.

The only person who's answered you so far is SpyreX...

SpyreX: How is Adel connected to Herod?

...and I'm hoping this was rhetorical because it seemed pretty obvious to me.

Troll 455 needs more catching up. taco needs replacement and s-lully needs to exist.
I sympathize with Korts 456 up until that last part. If Elmo is suspicious for defending Artem, then isn't Adel also suspicious? The difference seems to be that one of them got through to you.

Ectomancer, if you're so worried about people letting Adel slide to D2, why are you doing essentially nothing about it?

[Herodotus]

Do you be using some metric other than the max - min here (or perhaps ratio of max/min) or do you be looking at who has talked about Troll rather than who Troll has talked about? Or does Troll have those confused somehow? The way Troll be reading the data your statement there seems odd.

The chart itself is inverted.

Also, the data set does not include (or includes by some players but not by others) nicknames, as I mentioned in 431 and 434. I've done my own numbers and two others so far; if SpyreX's original counts were correct, these updates based on nicknames, prior to SpyreX 427, are also correct:

Herodotus Drop

Adel: 97
Artem 77
Ectomancer: 8
Elmo: 35
Korts: 4
populartajo:

28

Porkens: 30
Spring:

33

SpyreX: 31
Vi: 32
Zorblag:

8

Yours (

Zorblag

) has not changed.

Ectomancer Drop:

Adel: 29
Artem: 11
Elmo: 14
Hero: 10
Korts: 2
Tajo: 19
Porkens: 30
Spring: 21
SpyreX: 23
Vi: 14
Zorblag:

4

(which is

less

than SpyreX's number)

[populartajo]

Im sorry about my activity in all my games. V/LA until the 2nd

[Herodotus]

We've got Elmo picking out Hero's mention of 2 players from a field of daisies. Tunnelvision or impatience? Smells dirty.

I could see that as a town-tell. I think Elmo simply wants me to be scum.
In that regard, I'm going to disappoint him. I just hope it doesn't lead to a mislynch in LYLO (I'm guessing this is the current game-plan of the scum, assuming Elmo is town.)

Porkens Drop

no changes for nicknames

[Elmo]

Artem has been generally badly posting and misrepresenting or twisting arguments. That's the gist of my vote.

Do you claim that bad logic is a universal scumtell, or do you have evidence that Artem's use of bad logic is limited to when he is scum?

There is no such thing as a universal scumtell, but misrepresentation comes pretty damn close. Also, my "badly posting" comment is supposed to mean that

I have problems with Artem's choice of words and general behaviour,

not with his bad logic

.

I'm second-guessing myself regarding Artem--

a lot of the case on him is the blunders in logic

, which are not inherently scummy.

You have clearly contradicted yourself. When you voted him, you acknowledged that you did not have a problem with his bad logic, but you did with his behaviour. When you unvoted him, you said that it was because the case on him was for bad logic, ignoring the actual stated reason you voted him in the first place.

My point was going to be that if bad logic isn't scummy now it wasn't scummy then, but the reality is even more salacious. You are obvscum.

[Elmo]

Ecto.. Herod is the person I'm most suspicious of, so I was curious to see if there was anyone he was staying away from. He talks about those two

notably

less than anyone apart from you, which is understandable since you've been absent for a bit. But Zorblag has been here all the time, and Korts has been since very early; and I suspect Korts and Zorblag independently, so it's very interesting that he's very quiet on the subject of both of them; there's a very definite reason for me pointing that out. And similar to what I said about tajo, I don't see why it would be tunnelling.

Vi, explain the connection to me slowly?
Herod: Why would you guess that as the plan?

[Artem]

I'm here. Had V/LA over the weekend. Will post later today.

[SpyreX]

On a reread, I see SpyreX being a bit suspicious. He praises me for my activity in his ISO 25, when I start attacking Artem, his top suspect; this would be natural, if kinda unwarranted, but when I mention a suspicion of Elmo for his defense of Artem he immediately chimes in that he has had similar thoughts--despite the fact that before that, he mentions Elmo over a hundred posts before, claiming to have a "decent vibe" on him.

All this is correct. I approved of your content because you laid down firm opinions on pretty much everything going on up till that point in the game. You came out aggressive and strong. Which I like.

And, Elmo has been a whats going on kind of thing. I don't understand if both parties are town AND don't know each others alignments (stupid masons) being that willing to go on the defensive over an entire case on someone. Which, of course, was exacerbated through the discussions.

Now, for numbers:

Like I said thats quick and dirty and since I haven't played with the bbcode or what have you to get it all nice and neat I'll use the compiled list Adel made.

Things that stand out to me:

1.) Herod's Adel fixation.
2.) How little overall Korts & Zorblag (sans Vi's Zorbalgopolis (which I think is caused by a lot of quoting)) are discussed.
3.) The Artem-Elmo 3 / Elmo-Artem 39.
4.) Of course, the fact that spring has NEVER mentioned Korts.

@Elmo:

Herod's 3 quiet folk stands out, but how do you tie in the Adel-factor to it?

[Herodotus]

Herod: Why would you guess that as the plan?

If players A and B are both town, and player A had said player B needs to die, "PLZ K THX", then as scum, I'd try to keep both players A and B alive. As things stand right now, unless you're scum, then we have a problem, which is that you're liable to give the scum the extra vote on me they could use later, particularly in LYLO. Of course, the same could be said for a lot of people, but you're the one I'm most worried about, since PT is much more likely scum than you are.
Sorry if that was unclear the first time.

I have a question, for Vi and SpyreX especially:
What specifically do you believe to be the significance of my mentioning Adel's name a lot?

[Ectomancer]

Ectomancer, if you're so worried about people letting Adel slide to D2, why are you doing essentially nothing about it?

50k feet over your head. It was about opportunistic voters (in this case Porkens) should you take the time to read that section. Not meaning to be a jerk here, but I see no emoticon worthy of the attitude.
Porkens is still awaiting Adel's answer to questions he asked previous to my impression that he jumped on spontaneously to my vote on Adel. Therefor, he got an unvote.

Ecto.. Herod is the person I'm most suspicious of, so I was curious to see if there was anyone he was staying away from. He talks about those two

notably

less than anyone apart from you, which is understandable since you've been absent for a bit. But Zorblag has been here all the time, and Korts has been since very early; and I suspect Korts and Zorblag independently, so it's very interesting that he's very quiet on the subject of both of them; there's a very definite reason for me pointing that out. And similar to what I said about tajo, I don't see why it would be tunnelling.

Vi, explain the connection to me slowly?
Herod: Why would you guess that as the plan?

Sorry Elmo, I read the chart wrong anyhow. I hate charts. I do make an effort to see the rationale behind them, but I must admit a failing in this area.

[SpyreX]

What specifically do you believe to be the significance of my mentioning Adel's name a lot?

Thats the thing. Contextually Adel's name came up way too much to make sense. So, I'm left with some kind of scum machinations for it:

1.) You are both scum and you are, for some reason, connecting yourself subconciously.
2.) You are scum and are laying a groundwork for a later Adel lynch.
3.) You are both masons (which really means you're scum I swear).

Otherwise, I don't get it.

However, your question does raise a valid point. I'm voting for the wrong one of you right now based on this solely. Its only because I have bigger scum-issues with Adel's play that I'm voting for them at the moment.

[Elmo]

@SpyreX: I don't, yet. It's puzzling. I need to reread, which I usually procrastinate over terribly.
@Herod: That hypothetical would hold true any time one townie strongly suspected another, though. Statistically, it's likely one of us is dead before the end of the game, and in any respect I don't see what saying that is supposed to do - it doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than as an avenue to say HAY LOOK GUYS IM TOWN while trying to discredit my attack as mere bias.
@Ecto: OK, 'tis cool What do you think of Porkens?

[Ectomancer]

Herod, if the plan is to get you into a dilemma at LYLO, then can you explain the wagon on you? Wouldn't scum like, not want you to get lynched? So is this a town wagon on you that has stalled, or what do you think is going on?

vote Herod

because it seems that only town votes for him...

[Ectomancer]

@Ecto: OK, 'tis cool What do you think of Porkens?

I re-read him and also made a mistake there. He voted the very next post after I did, so I thought, Ahah! But he really was waiting on Adel (have we got that yet Porkens?)

[Herodotus]

1.) You are both scum and you are, for some reason, connecting yourself subconciously.
2.) You are scum and are laying a groundwork for a later Adel lynch.
3.) You are both masons (which really means you're scum I swear).

1.) I would know better.
2.) My mentions of Adel probably do not support that.
3.) And this is the reason why I asked. Mentioning another player a lot but deciding they are not fos- or vote-worthy is probably a mason tell. Are Adel and I masons? There is no way I'm going to answer that.

But you are role-fishing.

unvote
vote: SpyreX

I'll have to re-check, but I think I'd also be equally inclined to lynch Vi.

[Elmo]

I'll have to re-check, but I think I'd also be equally inclined to lynch Vi.

You should do standup.

[Herodotus]

@Elmo:
I just realized a mistake. I was assuming the game would necessarily reach a LYLO state; it may not.