Mini 792 - Tofu Mafia. Game over!

[Adel]

yes. (which isn't proof, but I wanted to pressure him into responding instead of skipping out)

[Vi]

And nobody's done any of this?

No. I see no obvscum, no 95% cleared townies, no 95% certain links...

I vehemently disagree.

[SpyreX]

Basic Herod Namedrop Analysis:
* Basic is the most simple of copying all his posts to word and doing a Find for the names (or shortens).

Adel: 97
Artem 77
Ectomancer (Shortened to Ecto): 8
Elmo: 35
Korts: 4
populartajo: 25
Porkens: 30
Spring: 27
SpyreX: 31
Vi: 32
Zorblag: 6

So, to start.
Herod has 43 posts. That is an average of 2.25 references to Adel in some fashion through this game.

Now, Artem is also far higher than what appears to be average. However, Artem has been a focal point so being higher than the norm makes sense... but Adel being a full 20 references higher?

Also, on the flipside: Ecto, Korts and Zorblag have less than 10 references in this game.

So, there is a connection between Herod and Adel. Now, the flipside isn't really there but, there's a reason for that:

Adel hasn't DONE anything this game. Its also making my eyes bleed a little at this new poking at Porkens (when its obvious what the questions are) for "stalling" when he doesn't respond verbatim. Hypocrisy, thy name is Adel.

So, yes, I am overly concerned. Enough that either would be worth voting because I'm calling shenanigans on this mess.

Not that this frees Artem from my megalithic grasp, but for now, it can wait.

how long have you felt this way about meta?

Forever.

[Adel]

I like the namedrop analysis. Will you do it for all players? The full dataset would be more valuable if it were all done at the same time.


RE: Porkens, he is stalling.

[Adel]

Adel hasn't DONE anything this game. Its also making my eyes bleed a little at this new poking at Porkens (when its obvious what the questions are) for "stalling" when he doesn't respond verbatim. Hypocrisy, thy name is Adel.

I've done 3 thing:
1. stated a meta conversation
2. got you to say that meta is crap, over and over
3. I derailed the Artrem wagon.

all 3 are significant.

[SpyreX]

Sure I'll work on the namedrop on everyone. It IS useful information.

Its past the time for the start. You need to finish these thoughts.

[Herodotus]

I think a full analysis could be useful, but there are issues like nicknames:
For me, add 3 for "PT", 5 for "tajo" and 1 for "Tajo" meaning populartajo. And 6 for "SL" meaning springlullaby. There may be others, but I don't recall them.
Another issue is that we've used pronouns, too.

[Herodotus]

It's probably also worth noting that for a while, I was reluctant to use a gendered pronoun for Adel for obvious reasons. (The first time I did was on page 16.) This led to paragraphs like:

I don't think Adel is an "easy target." If I were scum trying for a mislynch, Adel seems like a poor selection to target for that (assuming Adel is town.)

That paragraph alone has two more "namedrops" than would be necessary with pronouns. If every pronoun I've used or quoted was counted for the player it referenced, I think you'd find at least Porkens, Korts, Artem, and SpyreX would be substantially higher.
Aside from that, a lot of the "namedrops" were either quote tags or within quoted or requoted text -- I've been asked about Adel a lot, including a couple of those tortured paragraphs.

An interesting comparison might be to take the ratio of
(namedrops of player X) / (postcount of player X)
Korts and Zorblag, for instance, have posted 12 and 13 times each. But maybe comparing different players' Namedrop counts would have the same or better normalizing effect.

[SpyreX]

Adel Drop:

Artem: 24
Elmo: 30
Hero: 34
Korts: 9
Tajo: 48
Porkens: 18
Spring: 24
SpyreX: 32
Vi: 26
Zorblag: 7 (16 including reference to "Troll")

Artem Drop:

Adel: 30
Ecto: 18
Elmo: 3
Hero: 57
Korts: 10
Tajo: 14
Porkens: 36
Spring: 18
SpyreX: 48
Vi: 20
Zorblag: 0 (6 including reference to "Troll")

Ectomancer Drop:

Adel: 29
Artem: 11
Elmo: 14
Hero: 10
Korts: 2
Tajo: 19
Porkens: 30
Spring: 21
SpyreX: 23
Vi: 14
Zorblag: 1 (7 including reference to "Troll")

Elmo Drop

Adel: 12
Artem: 39
Ecto: 8
Hero: 49
Korts: 17
Tajo: 10
Porkens: 8
Spring: 11
SpyreX: 27
Vi: 12
Zorblag: 8 (17 including reference to "Troll")

Herodotus Drop

Adel: 97
Artem 77
Ectomancer: 8
Elmo: 35
Korts: 4
populartajo: 25
Porkens: 30
Spring: 27
SpyreX: 31
Vi: 32
Zorblag: 6

Korts Drop

Adel: 13
Artem 36
Ectomancer: 7
Elmo: 19
Hero: 14
populartajo: 4
Porkens: 14
Spring: 6
SpyreX: 31
Vi: 14
Zorblag: 24

Populartajo Drop

Adel: 46
Artem 11
Ectomancer: 9
Elmo: 15
Hero: 56
Korts: 5
Porkens: 8
Spring: 15
SpyreX: 6
Vi: 12
Zorblag: 12 (18 including "Troll")

Porkens Drop

Adel: 26
Artem: 27
Ectomancer: 19
Elmo: 7
Hero: 24
Korts: 1
Populartajo: 9
Spring: 25
SpyreX: 24
Vi: 3
Zorblag: 1 (3 including "Troll")

Springlullaby Drop

Adel: 15
Artem: 35
Ectomancer: 35
Elmo: 7
Hero: 6
Korts: 0
Populartajo: 2
Porkens: 37
SpyreX: 17
Vi: 3
Zorblag: 6 (29 including "Troll")

SpyreX Drop

Adel: 31
Artem: 30
Ectomancer: 19
Elmo: 16
Hero: 28
Korts: 8
Populartajo: 8
Porkens: 21
Spring: 8
Vi: 6
Zorblag: 4 (4 including "Troll")

Vi Drop

Adel: 57
Artem: 57
Ectomancer: 17
Elmo: 23
Hero: 53
Korts: 18
Populartajo: 29
Porkens: 25
Spring: 10
SpyreX: 19
Zorblag: 10 (74 including "Troll")

Zorblag Drop

Adel: 21
Artem: 49
Ectomancer: 25
Elmo: 17
Hero: 16
Korts: 13
Populartajo: 17
Porkens: 16
Spring: 42
SpyreX: 19
Vi: 23


BLAH, that was a hoot. I'll do some more details later since there was a few general things (how little Zor / Korts are talked about for the most part) but the Herod - Adel amount STILL is the biggest WTF.

[Herodotus]

EBWOP: that should be 13 and 14 times each, though it includes Zorblag's /confirm and Korts's greeting.

Also, "Troll" should add 2 to Zorblag from me.

Spyrex, I'm guessing you'll want to amend those counts to include more nicknames?

Somebody mentioned that you like long posts. When I first saw that, I thought that you like to post long posts, which has not been the case so far? Do you only like to read long posts, or was that somebody wrong (I should probably go back and find the quote)? Or what?

I believe you were looking for this post.

[SpyreX]

That was quick and dirty. If there are any glaring errors let me know. Feel free to modify if you can justify.

As an aside though...

Lets say, ohh, 20 of your mentions of Adel are unnecessary because of pronoun use.

Lets also say that, in looking in depth, you have 10 more pronoun usages for everyone else.

That would push Artem up by 10 but still have you talking about Adel 77 times.

Now, when you look at the actual interaction and flow of the game a lot of Artem comments make SOME sense but a deluge of Adel?

That doesn't connect.

[Elmo]

Herodotus Drop

Korts: 4
Zorblag: 6

Well hello there.

[Porkens]

I like the name analysis; it'll be useful later.


Adel; the two points I'm talking about are, as if it shouldn't be glaringly obvious; your "in-depth psychological analysis" of our responses to your survey at the very beginning of the game, and your actual reasons for the sudden vote on SpyreX.

In general, I can't believe how much everyone is letting Adel slide. It boggles my mind.

This is the second time you've accused me of "stalling." Again; what have I stalled on?

[Elmo]

Inverted - who is

talked about

by whom?

[col]

Adel

Artem: 30 Ectomancer: 29 Elmo: 12 Herodotus: 97 Korts: 13 populartajo: 46 Porkens: 26 springlullaby: 15 SpyreX: 31 Vi: 57 Zorblag: 21[col]

Artem

Adel: 24 Ectomancer: 11 Elmo: 39 Herodotus: 77 Korts: 36 populartajo: 11 Porkens: 27 springlullaby: 35 SpyreX: 30 Vi: 57 Zorblag: 49[col]

Ectomancer

Adel: ?? Artem: 18 Elmo: 8 Herodotus: 8 Korts: 7 populartajo: 9 Porkens: 19 springlullaby: 35 SpyreX: 19 Vi: 17 Zorblag: 25[col]

Elmo

Adel: 30 Artem: 3 Ectomancer: 14 Herodotus: 35 Korts: 19 populartajo: 15 Porkens: 7 springlullaby: 7 SpyreX: 16 Vi: 23 Zorblag: 17[col]

Herodotus

Adel: 34 Artem: 57 Ectomancer: 10 Elmo: 49 Korts: 14 populartajo: 56 Porkens: 24 springlullaby: 6 SpyreX: 28 Vi: 53 Zorblag: 16[col]

Korts

Adel: 9 Artem: 10 Ectomancer: 2 Elmo: 17 Herodotus: 4 populartajo: 5 Porkens: 1 springlullaby: 0 SpyreX: 8 Vi: 18 Zorblag: 13

populartajo

Adel: 48 Artem: 14 Ectomancer: 19 Elmo: 10 Herodotus: 25 Korts: 4 Porkens: 9 springlullaby: 2 SpyreX: 8 Vi: 29 Zorblag: 17[col]

Porkens

Adel: 18 Artem: 36 Ectomancer: 30 Elmo: 8 Herodotus: 30 Korts: 14 populartajo: 8 springlullaby: 37 SpyreX: 21 Vi: 25 Zorblag: 16[col]

springlullaby

Adel: 24 Artem: 18 Ectomancer: 21 Elmo: 11 Herodotus: 27 Korts: 6 populartajo: 15 Porkens: 25 SpyreX: 8 Vi: 10 Zorblag: 42[col]

SpyreX

Adel: 32 Artem: 48 Ectomancer: 23 Elmo: 27 Herodotus: 31 Korts: 31 populartajo: 6 Porkens: 24 springlullaby: 17 Vi: 19 Zorblag: 19[col]

Vi

Adel: 26 Artem: 20 Ectomancer: 14 Elmo: 12 Herodotus: 32 Korts: 14 populartajo: 12 Porkens: springlullaby: 3 SpyreX: 6 Zorblag: 23[col]

Zorblag

Adel: 16 Artem: 6 Ectomancer: 7 Elmo: 17 Herodotus: 6 Korts: 24 populartajo: 18 Porkens: 3 springlullaby: 29 SpyreX: 4 Vi: 74
Vi, perhaps I'm being thick, but I still have like no idea what you disagree with me about.

[caf19]

Prodding populartajo, Zorblag.

[Korts]

I apologize, I need replacement. I am now four pages behind which I am more than reluctant to read and this game deserves better perpetual procrastination.

[Korts]

Actually, scratch that. I'm gonna sit my ass down and catch up starting right now. Expect a post within an hour or two.

[Adel]

this is interesting.
observations:
Zorblag has the biggest difference between who he talks about the most, and who he talks about the least.
Ecto has the least amount of difference between who he talks about the most, and the least.

I didn't do averages or medians for the collumns and rows, but I'll add that in if someone likes.

generally, players who are mentioned the least are the ones slipping by with little interaction

spring is an outlier. she is mention a lot by some and ignored by other.

relative to how much he mentions others, Elmo stands out for not mentioning Atrem. If we were to lynch Atrem, and found that Atrem were town, I would count this as a strong tell against Elmo.

Look for situations where player X mentions player y a lot, but player y doesn't mention x. Is "buddying up" or "unanswered attacks" taking place? In either case, that might be a tell against player y.

This is one place where a deep meta might prove informative. For instance, Ecto is very even in who he talks about. He has made 37 posts in this game. Look at the first 37 posts of each of the games in his meta, and see if there is a difference when he is scum and town in terms of how evenly he mentions other players. Ditto for Zorblag. These are the kinds of subliminal tells that a player specific meta can provide that scum players won't have identified before the game started.

[Elmo]

relative to how much he mentions others, Elmo stands out for not mentioning Atrem. If we were to lynch Atrem, and found that Atrem were town, I would count this as a strong tell against Elmo.

lol, you are missing a 9. Artem is the person I have mentioned most!

[Adel]

EBWOQ:

Look for situations where player X mentions player y a lot, but player y doesn't mention x. Is "buddying up" or "unanswered attacks" taking place? In either case, that might be a tell against player

x. If x is scum and "buddying up" happened, depending on meta, then y is more likely town. If "unanswered attacks" happened then, depending upon meta, player y is more likely to be scum

[Adel]

relative to how much he mentions others, Elmo stands out for not mentioning Atrem. If we were to lynch Atrem, and found that Atrem were town, I would count this as a strong tell against Elmo.

lol, you are missing a 9. Artem is the person I have mentioned most!

dammit, did I just get the axis wrong from your table? No wonder, it is way past my bedtime, I'll have to fix it tomorrow. -- too tired right now.

[Elmo]

Oh, you are not missing a 9. But the x/y axes are inverted in that image; what you have there is "Y talks about X" or "X is talked about by Y". Specifically, Elmo talks about Artem = 39, Elmo is talked about by Artem = 3.

I do find it interesting, but I'm chewing on it a bit more. I think it might be interesting to find the lowest # of interactions and try and force them in some way.

[Elmo]

You copied my tables fine:

Inverted - who is

talked about

by whom?

This. Sorry, I should probably have put that in bigger text.

[Elmo]

springlullaby is very quiet on the subject of Herodotus and Korts, and loud on Zorblag.
Herodotus is very quiet on the subject of Korts, springlullaby, and Zorblag.
Korts is very quiet on the subject of springlullaby, quieter than his average on Herodotus (is this fair? hm), and about average on Zorblag.

Huh.

[Korts]

On a reread, I see SpyreX being a bit suspicious. He praises me for my activity in his ISO 25, when I start attacking Artem, his top suspect; this would be natural, if kinda unwarranted, but when I mention a suspicion of Elmo for his defense of Artem he immediately chimes in that he has had similar thoughts--despite the fact that before that, he mentions Elmo over a hundred posts before, claiming to have a "decent vibe" on him.

I'm second-guessing myself regarding Artem--a lot of the case on him is the blunders in logic, which are not inherently scummy. Thanks for asking those questions, Adel. Especially his attacks on those attacking him seem like frustrated/bad town play.

I wonder, were you trying to shift my arguments against Troll into a more refutable position? It would make sense, coupled with your light attacks against him, in a distancing scenario between you two.

This reads as manipulative rabble-rousing, to me.

I prefer to dub it "showing my thought process". It's no different an interpretation of Vi's words than above quote by you is an interpretation of mine.

I am starting to get a feel for Elmo-scum.

More later.