Mini 792 - Tofu Mafia. Game over!

[Adel]

People usually let her ride until Day 2 for her promised Holy Grail of Analytical scum

, and to be quite honest, I've rarely found that they help me find scum, and I dont see where Adel's play has improved either. Adel deserves the hardcore pressure cooker.

the portion in bold is nagging me... a) I usually replace into games, b) when I do play in day 1 I am usually confrontational and aggressive, c) I fail to see how this could be a genuine opinion that Ecto generated honestly.

[SpyreX]

@SpyreX: since I established that there was no contradiction between my vote on tajo and my unvote, you've posted 13 times on this site. Why is your vote still on me?

My snipes in my WoT game and/or my setting up the mini I started modding today?

My vote is still on you because I'm totally cool with this wagon. You're obviously paying attention and yet not doing a whole lot of anything.

"Lol reactions" is weak at best.

I've played your reindeer games and still waiting for a payoff. I've actively tried to give every benefit of the doubt about it and when you post see what I did in other games that just makes the face sad.

I've asked more than once about the mystical vote on me you had but I'm assuming its also "lol reactions" as well.

I'm also very bothered by the two pieces of exchange here:

in my last game, on I replaced in on day 2, during night 2 with 12 or 13 players alive, two out of the three players with night moves two of them targeted me.

I expect to get night killed in this game, obviously.

you are talking to a person that thinks in terms of days instead of mere pages. I think you may need to find a new stalling tactic -- this one isn't going to get you anywhere.

Expecting to be a night kill and implying that there is going to be no payout for all your Q&A isn't sweet.

Add into that this really offputting Herod connection (I'm hoping to actually do that analysis today) and that is plenty fine for the vote.

So nah I'm cool.

[Ectomancer]

a) I dont really care if you do or you dont. I'm taking my gut feeling in general on what I've seen from you.
b) what does that have to do with being allowed to skate through? See part c for the rest of this answer.
c) I believe that it was actually Springlullaby in a MD discussion (or echoing/agreeing with me) when we discussed players who are allowed to live simply by being prolific. (See your b for reference for your own style)
You simply have a different method of avoiding the Day 1 lynch, which are your charts and your graphs (which you actually usually have to your credit)

Prolific is what you all have been. Its hard to catch up, but a couple guesses here. Scum is on one of the big wagons and its probably not a bus.
Scum has already squared up against a town member, and though wants to look "on the case", wont actually push theirs to a lynch to avoid the obvious
"who was involved in lynching town"/

That's vague, but what you get from a skim (and Im not done yet)

Names, please.

Don't hold your breath there chief. This is an analysis of a snapshot in time (just stating it changes the situation as you know) and as I've stated, it hadn't been easy to catch up. So, instead of just shooting off a one-liner asking others to go back and work, you could be just a bit clearer about exactly what it is you want? Lets see. Do we want those who have been prolific, which wagon has the scum on it,or maybe you want the specific scum. Are you looking for the scum that has already squared up against a town member (or maybe the name of the town member), but wont continue because they want to avoid being the guy drumming up the townie lynch? You want all of the above? Well take a look at the bandwagons that fit that criteria and let me know.

I'll tell you what this is best at. Some players use posts as notes to themselves (or others) in order to refer back to them when some actual concrete evidence arrives.

That post could be considered a filler post by some, but there's ore in there to be mined. I just dont know I'm quite ready to swing the pickaxe at that particular pile.

[Adel]

Expecting to be a night kill and implying that there is going to be no payout for all your Q&A isn't sweet.

lol, at this point I think that I'm scummy enough to avoid a NK

"Lol reactions" is weak at best.

lol

[Adel]

And, as the amount of useful meta I've seen (omg meta-meta) couldn't be measured by any device known to man I'm going to continue railing against it.

do you still stand by this statement?

[Ectomancer]

Hey Spyrex, its been 18 days, was it worth it, or should we have lynched already?

[SpyreX]

do you still stand by this statement?

Yep. Even if you pull the rabbit out I'm still going to think meta is retarded and maybe, just maybe, accept you are an exception to the rule.

Hey Spyrex, its been 18 days, was it worth it, or should we have lynched already?

18 != 36. But, yea I wouldn't have been heartbroken if Artem or (now) Adel saw the noose. We have fell into the doldrums yet that make my eyes bleed though.

[springlullaby]

Summary draft, will elaborate later. My read for the day, the scum reads are unlikely to change baring minimum scale 3 armageddon.

Scum (ok to lynch)

Artem - I think the derailing of this wagon is a mistake and artem is firmly scum.
Ectomancer - My call on this one is going to be very subjective on certain points but my conviction is pretty strong.

Scummy (people I'm feeling wishy washy about and potential lynches, or not)

Zorblag - This one is more nebulous and I kinda fear I'm being OMGUSY so I'll make one reply/question post.
Porkens - Weak play and lazy votes, I'm not sure I buy the towntells consisting pretty much exclusively of bravado.
Adel - Scummy with promises of amend, I don't mind being patient a little longer for the delivery, but not too long.
Herodotus - Opaque play, nothing stray too much in scum territory, nothing stray in town. Been weaker lately.
populartajo - General sloppy impression and hard to judge.
town.

Also, am curious to see where this wagon on Adel is going to lead.

[Ectomancer]

Adel - Scummy with promises of amend, I don't mind being patient a little longer for the delivery, but not too long.

This is exactly the type of drivel I've been referring to!

[Herodotus]

I don't think

[Adel's]

actions have yet produced a lot, but the same is true for anyone.

What do you define as "produced a lot"?

Finding a definite scum, safely clearing some townies, establishing strong links, giving a lot of evidence, or similar things... basically anything that is probably a major contribution toward a town win. But to a moderate degree; it's only day one.

His ISO 14-16 (though I do agree about not revealing alts,) 19-20, 29-30.

Regarding the first two sets: Do you think those answers (and objections) were relevant to the questionnaire? Do you think the questionnaire is itself relevant?

29 and 30 seems like a cheap shot at best and a misrepresentation of what constitutes triviality at worst. The type of lurking Adel was accusing tajo of is a pretty blatant universal scumtell; protesting it hardly seems trivial.

I'm taking most of Adel's 5 questions at face value, and I know that the information Adel or someone else derives from them could be "relevant to finding the scum." I don't have much perspective on the validity of the objections since I found the questions easy to answer. But my impression of the arguing over the questions was that it was pointless, and therefore the motives for arguing were questionable.
On 29 and 30:
To me, those posts looked like a continuation of the earlier faux confrontation. It's easy enough to say "I'm having trouble catching up in this game because the posts are big. But like I said, I'll post some time tonight."
Do you think that he was not performing "the type of lurking Adel was accusing tajo of?" If you think he was, and if you consider the lurking PT was doing to be a blatant universal scumtell, does that mean you find him scummy? More to the point, what is your read on him?

Like with Spyrex? Who was the scum who wagoned with you then?
Cue circular logic in 3, 2, 1...

...how do you NOT have a scummy read on Adel?

I am disliking the pressure on this issue.
Are you saying here that I should think that Adel is scum because I predict he might use circular logic to bolster a weak argument?

I fail to see how this could be a genuine opinion that Ecto generated honestly.

I don't understand.

@Artem:
I don't think "fabricated" is a description of post 31, but assuming that word means "artificial," then it accurately describes post 32.
The point of those posts was to get a read on Porkens. He had left his random vote on Spyrex and made an FoS on another player. This got my attention. I asked whether the FoS was genuine (since it was in a quote box, I wasn't sure.) I also wanted to see what Porkens would do with his vote if he were to move it. To pressure Porkens into considering making a new, less-random vote, I added a fourth vote on Spyrex. So 32 was fabricated because my vote was neither random nor based on suspicion of Spyrex. But 31 was a pivotal question.
My post 100 described this plan.

[Adel]

I fail to see how this could be a genuine opinion that Ecto generated honestly.

I don't understand.

like, it isn't based upon evidence or experience. I think it is a lie.

[Ectomancer]

I fail to see how this could be a genuine opinion that Ecto generated honestly.

I don't understand.

like, it isn't based upon evidence or experience. I think it is a lie.

I don't think that you could argue that I have a lack of experience. Anyhow, you are arguing over the wrong thing. If you do that all the time (promise charts and such and that isn't a lie), then it is a null tell because you do it whether you are town or scum. An argument over whether they work or not is for MD, not the game. So there should be no vote on you on that basis.
I told you I look for motivations over what people say, or even who they are sometimes. Porkens snap agreed and voted Adel even though there were 3 competing wagons at the time. If you have scum buddies in trouble, one way to help them out is spread the towns vote across as many busses as you can, hoping theirs will die.
So I'd like an explanation from Porkens concerning his vote following mine on Adel.

unvote

vote Porkens

[Elmo]

populartajo seems to be tunneling on Herodotus and not finding anyone else scummy which be a problem for Troll.

"Tunneling" comes from "tunnel vision", which would here be ignoring everyone except Herod. He's said that he's looked at everyone and Herod is the only one he suspects - you've got it backwards. Why should he find anyone else scummy? We can lynch one person per day. I see no scum motive, even assuming a neutral read on Herod. Why do you not suspect me for similar, hitherto?

SpyreX: How is Adel connected to Herod?

Spring: Your reasons for voting Artem that I can find are:
# He had you at townish for not contributing. He didn't say you were townish.
# His meta is wrong. I don't see why a difference of opinion is unlikely; I also find it unlikely he'd lie about that.
# He stated that he thought you'd lurk unless someone pushed a case on you. I fail to see that as scummy if it's correct; it depends on the previous point.
# His SpyreX vote was bad. How was it scummy?

It looks pretty weak to me. Why is he "firmly scum"? Also, why did you ask if scum could talk pre-game - how would that change your opinions now, in this game?

Korts joins Herod on my shitlist pending his explanation wrt Artem. Hint, hint.

Unofficial Vote Count

, just because

Herodotus

(4):

Elmo

,

populartajo

,

Vi

,

Adel

populartajo

(2):

Herodotus

,

Zorblag

Artem

(2):

springlullaby

,

Korts

Porkens

(2):

Artem

,

Ectomancer

Adel

(2):

Porkens

,

SpyreX

Colour-coded for your convenience! This is an improvement on the previous one but I feel we could still do better.

[Vi]

SpyreX 401. Is. Awesome.

Don't hold your breath there chief. This is an analysis of a snapshot in time (just stating it changes the situation as you know) and as I've stated, it hadn't been easy to catch up. So, instead of just shooting off a one-liner asking others to go back and work, you could be just a bit clearer about exactly what it is you want? Lets see. Do we want those who have been prolific, which wagon has the scum on it,or maybe you want the specific scum. Are you looking for the scum that has already squared up against a town member (or maybe the name of the town member), but wont continue because they want to avoid being the guy drumming up the townie lynch? You want all of the above? Well take a look at the bandwagons that fit that criteria and let me know.

I'll tell you what this is best at. Some players use posts as notes to themselves (or others) in order to refer back to them when some actual concrete evidence arrives.

That post could be considered a filler post by some, but there's ore in there to be mined. I just dont know I'm quite ready to swing the pickaxe at that particular pile.

This is the first time I've ever seen a literal filibuster in Mafia. Condensed version:

"I said something, but I don't know what I said and I don't feel like finding out."

"Lol reactions" is weak at best.

lol

reactions

Summary draft, will elaborate later.

...

I don't think [Adel's] actions have yet produced a lot,

but the same is true for anyone.

What do you define as "produced a lot"?

Finding a definite scum, safely clearing some townies, establishing strong links, giving a lot of evidence, or similar things... basically anything that is probably a major contribution toward a town win. But to a moderate degree; it's only day one.

And

nobody's

done any of this?

I'm taking most of Adel's 5 questions at face value, and I know that the information Adel or someone else derives from them could be "relevant to finding the scum." I don't have much perspective on the validity of the objections since I found the questions easy to answer. But my impression of the arguing over the questions was that it was pointless, and therefore the motives for arguing were questionable.

So you're objecting about something you don't understand.

To me, those posts looked like a continuation of the earlier

faux confrontation

. It's easy enough to say "I'm having trouble catching up in this game because the posts are big. But like I said, I'll post some time tonight."
Do you think that he was not performing "the type of lurking Adel was accusing tajo of?" If you think he was, and if you consider the lurking PT was doing to be a blatant universal scumtell, does that mean you find him scummy? More to the point, what is your read on him?

Bolded: That's another reason to ask what

concretely

your opinion of Adel is. Now Adel is tajo's scumpartner?

As far as I can tell - not that I did much looking into it - tajo was (is?) indeed lurking. However, by the time I saw Adel calling him out for it tajo had already responded with his catch-up wall, with which I didn't have many immediate problems. Right now I'm not sure either way on him, though, as that bit where he essentially justified seeing you as the only scummy person in the game is made of hate. And this game is on his second page of most recent posts by him... That said, it's hard for me to hate the first point considering as of now I think YOU are scum.

I am disliking the pressure on this issue.
Are you saying here that I should think that Adel is scum because I predict he might use circular logic to bolster a weak argument?

Are you suggesting that Adel was about to

accidentally

use circular logic...?

Based on the stuff above I find Elmo 412 objectionable, but I'll let the addressed parties fight their own battles.

[Adel]

I'm still going to think meta is retarded and maybe

how long have you felt this way about meta?

[Elmo]

Based on the stuff above I find Elmo 412 objectionable, but I'll let the addressed parties fight their own battles.

Which where what? =|

[Vi]

Based on the stuff above I find Elmo 412 objectionable, but I'll let the addressed parties fight their own battles.

Which where what? =|

You can infer my opinion on your post based on what I told other people, but I'm not going to answer for the people you were talking to.

[Adel]

People usually let her ride until Day 2 for her promised Holy Grail of Analytical scum

, and to be quite honest, I've rarely found that they help me find scum, and I dont see where Adel's play has improved either. Adel deserves the hardcore pressure cooker.

the portion in bold is nagging me... a) I usually replace into games, b) when I do play in day 1 I am usually confrontational and aggressive, c) I fail to see how this could be a genuine opinion that Ecto generated honestly.

Ecto just went off on a tangent. Bold is what I was talking about.

Name 1 example from your experience where people let me ride until day 2?

[caf19]

Votecount

Herodotus (4): Elmo, populartajo, Vi, Adel
populartajo (2): Herodotus, Zorblag
Artem (2): springlullaby, Korts
Porkens (2): Artem, Ectomancer
Adel (2): Porkens, SpyreX

Not voting

[Ectomancer]

People usually let her ride until Day 2 for her promised Holy Grail of Analytical scum

, and to be quite honest, I've rarely found that they help me find scum, and I dont see where Adel's play has improved either. Adel deserves the hardcore pressure cooker.

the portion in bold is nagging me... a) I usually replace into games, b) when I do play in day 1 I am usually confrontational and aggressive, c) I fail to see how this could be a genuine opinion that Ecto generated honestly.

Ecto just went off on a tangent. Bold is what I was talking about.

Name 1 example from your experience where people let me ride until day 2?

Quit nitpicking the damn point. SpringLullably just gave us exactly what I've been talking about. To be fair about the subject, I do the same thing. I find that by being an aggressor (but not a stupid one) early makes me live longer. You just found your own method for doing it and

I'm certain that people in this game know exactly what I mean

, especially if they were commenting in the MD thread (which I conveniently have not located).

[Porkens]

I fail to see how this could be a genuine opinion that Ecto generated honestly.

I don't understand.

like, it isn't based upon evidence or experience. I think it is a lie.

I don't think that you could argue that I have a lack of experience. Anyhow, you are arguing over the wrong thing. If you do that all the time (promise charts and such and that isn't a lie), then it is a null tell because you do it whether you are town or scum. An argument over whether they work or not is for MD, not the game. So there should be no vote on you on that basis.
I told you I look for motivations over what people say, or even who they are sometimes. Porkens snap agreed and voted Adel even though there were 3 competing wagons at the time. If you have scum buddies in trouble, one way to help them out is spread the towns vote across as many busses as you can, hoping theirs will die.
So I'd like an explanation from Porkens concerning his vote following mine on Adel.

unvote

vote Porkens

It's staying there until she explains the two points that she's been promising to explain all game.

[Adel]

which two points?

[Adel]

please answer quickly. I want you to prove that you aren't just stalling.

[Adel]

don't bother looknig up quotes, just say them in your own words. Your speed of response is more important than total accuracy here.

Also, I can prove that you are online currently.

[Herodotus]

And nobody's done any of this?

No. I see no obvscum, no 95% cleared townies, no 95% certain links...

Also, I can prove that you are online currently.

Are you referring to the post he made in another game?