ZazieR wrote:EBWOP
Also, the quote in the above post from Star, was in response to this post:
Kevin wrote:Star, taking shots at "everyone" is me thinking I have the 3 scum found and going after those three players. How am I being insulting or defensive?
Goat, you (or anyone else here) probably won't face my real wrath. I've been warned by a List Mod recently, but the game is ongoing. XD
Star, I'd say we should probably stop discussing roles that could be in the game. There is no reason to speculate on anyone's roles just yet.
I see, I see what Goat didn't see and that's that Star missed a question.
So Star answer it, and Goat explain why you didn't comment on this.
Comment on what? That Star missed a question? Did Star respond to the rest of the post as well? Missing a question isn't scummy. Lying about it is.
ZazieR wrote:The only argument mentioned in the post Goat votes Kevin I can agree with is:
Goat wrote:Being on Andycyca for as long as he was without commenting on him at all is a definite scum tell.
But I'll get to this in my response to Kevin's last post.
Also, regarding this:
Goat wrote:I also dislike his assertion that he missed my questions when he had answered the rest of my post. It's a dishonest answer, and he had no reason not to simply tell the truth as town.
What's the truth, according to you then?
That he simply chose not to answer them because they were the kind of questions that suggested his attack on me was misguided.
ZazieR wrote:Also, three of the four mentioned arguments were already present before you voted. The only one absent that happened between the post before you voted and the post in which you voted, was the Star vote. So why did you only vote later?
Not to forget that you've also been very long on the Andy wagon, yet you didn't mention him after the post in which you voted and in the post you voted. So why do you attack him for something you did as well?
I'm interested to hear your elaboration about the 'no scumhunting' argument, as I think it's untrue.
Which leaves the Star vote. Why is it weak? Because Star is scummy, and depending on the responses to my post, she's one of the players who can get my vote. I'll reveal the others later.
I contemplated voting earlier. I held on to my Andy vote at the time simply because I still thought he was still scummier. Kmd's vote on Starbuck tipped the scale in his favor. It complemented his play up to that point in the game (questioning people on stuff that could be construed as scummy but really isn't) and then the vote was icing. She made a suggestion that would benefit scum more than town, but it was such a blatantly "scummy" statement that it's clearly just a sign of inexperience. The only way I could see her making that statement as scum comes from a completely different reason than KMD's. I could see her as scum making that statement only if she legitimately thought it was something that would help the town and she wanted to look town by suggesting townie things. However, it's just as easy to assume that she's town suggesting things that she thinks will help the town as well.
I did mention Andy while I was on his wagon. Numerous times in fact. You quote one such post in 216, actually. I defended my vote on Andycyca to Empking and Sudo_Nym, arguing why his hypocrisy was scummy.
My no scumhunting argument against Kmd is that I don't think he's actually looking for scum with his questioning. I think he's just looking for things that could be construed as suspicious so he can place his vote there. That also ties in to my point about him "missing" my questions. Did he miss those questions, or did he ignore them because they didn't fit his want to construe me as scummy?
Because you say Star is scummy it's automatically true?
ZazieR wrote:This is scummy as hell. Now, Goat attacks Kevin as he thinks Kevin's lying about his reasong for not answering a question. Had Kevin gave the reason Goat expected, he probably would have been attacked by Goat for not wanting to answer a question.
Really? You think I'm scummy as hell because of how you think I "would" have acted? Please...
There are possible town motivations for why he could have not answered those questions. And likewise, it is "possible" he did miss those questions, but in a post where I only say 3 short paragraphs, and he immediately answered the 3rd such paragraph in the following post, I highly doubt that he didn't even see them at all.
Possible town motivation, exhibit 1: I saw them, but wasn't sure how to respond to them, so I just answered the rest of your post in the meantime.
ZazieR wrote:Seems like Goat is looking for reasons to attack Kevin.
On what basis? I gave arguments to suggest that him lying about it is a more plausible explanation than that he simply "missed" it.
ZazieR wrote:Wait. Does this mean you think it's a weak vote, because you see Star as in-experienced?
In the most simplest form, yes. I think it's a weak vote because I think Kmd didn't even consider the option that Starbuck's lack of experience was the driving factor behind her making that post. Again, this ties into my point that he's looking for things he can construe as scummy rather than things that actually point to scum. I think Kmd is smart enough to have considered the possibility that Starbuck's post was simply the result of inexperience, and not some grand scum scheme to learn town power roles by asking kindly in thread.
ZazieR wrote:I disagree, as he's asked questions and has discussed what in his eyes should be discussed.
Asking questions is easy to do. Discussing stuff is easy to do. Neither of those mean he's town by any stretch. I'm more interested in what he's pursuing and where his questions are leading. So far I see him on Andycyca without actually pressuring him/addressing him at all. Then I see him attacking me and "missing" questions that coincidentally happen to be hard to answer if his intention is to construe me as scummy. Then I see him attack Starbuck and ignoring her experience as the most likely factor behind her "scummy" statement.
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The 3 scum "slip" is inconsequential. I always assume 3 scum in a 12 player game unless there is reason to believe otherwise.
ZazieR wrote:Goatrevolt wrote:ZazieR wrote:So, I only need to check the discussion between Sudo and Bear, Goat and Kevin.
Anyway, at this moment I'm not liking Star and Goat.
And yet, all your questions are directed elsewhere.
Does nobody else think Kmd is scummy?
ORLY? Check again.
And like I said, the only thing that's scummy about Kevin is that he wasn't his normal stubborn self regarding Andy.
The irony is slapping me in the face.
ZazieR wrote:Traps are bad, and also anti-town.
Really? On what basis? I think traps can be powerful town tools.
ortolan wrote:
I think I have referred to it before in mafia in at least one game, I honestly cannot remember which. It may have been one in which I was mafia (just to insure myself) but it's just a common logical device. I referred to it more to illustrate the point to you than to use it as a form of argumentation. I bet if you asked everyone in Mafia Discussion (after the game obviously) they would say it is entirely valid. It's really no basis for suspicion like you seem to think it is.
I'll step in to say that I use that all the time. It's like a slap in the face to bad logic. Not only are you showing that their accusation is wrong, you are also showing that even if their accusation was right, it doesn't mean what they suggest it does.