Mini 803 - Pale Moon Risin' (Over!)

[ZazieR]

Sorry, had to get my gun >.<
But I'm /confirmed now.

[ZazieR]

Sorry, had to get my gun >.<

SCUMSLIP

Shoot >.<
Uhm, claim... What should I claim.......
Why's DGB right >.<?

[ZazieR]

Oh shoot >.<
You're right... We're fighting werewolves...
Do rocket launchers actually work against werewolves

I'll be right back, just to be sure.

[ZazieR]

I meant you being a werewolf and having a rocketlauncher actually. How do you get those big hairy mits into the trigger mechanism?

Well, not as I don't have any. But you do not need to worry about the rocket launcher anymore

[ZazieR]

But I just put my rocket launcher back so that I could fight them hand to hand >.<
I'm too lazy to get my rocket launcher back. So if I can't win like this, there's only one thing left with which I might be able to defeat them...

[ZazieR]

Vote Kmd

Either for Schtick voting or not meta voting.
I'll see later which one it is

[ZazieR]

Eh? Why only those four?
Don't you love us as much as those four? Is that it? Hmm? Hmmmmmm?

[ZazieR]

See, Incog? Somebody else is also not happy about not being included
But I'll wait patiently.
I wonder if camn can do the same though >.<

[ZazieR]

I'm such an idiot.

unvote vote afc

Obv scum.
I've been scum in games with him, in which he was town. We both have been town in games. And he once replaced me as scum. Which leaves only one which hasn't happened yet: him scum and me town. Can we lynch him now ?
And for those who doubt about this awesome logic, see South Park mafia. Best logic EVAH

[ZazieR]

vote VP Baltar

for the 'we' in "we are all screwed.

If I said 'I are all screwed' I'd have to vote myself on my newly placed grammar policy, now wouldn't I?

Obv mafier, bcuz he dosn't want to appear as hypocryt. U c?

[ZazieR]

You could have stated you had no reason.
But a big blank spot IS suspicious.

It is? Why?

[ZazieR]

unvote
Vote: Porkens

for rolefishing.

It wasn't rolefishing. He was saying that he would wait if you are serious about your doublevote or just being silly/jokey.
A doublevote ability would be shown clearly in the VC. So there can't be any fishing involved.

[ZazieR]

Vote Kmd

For Schtick voting.

Though I can now also include not meta voting as you later switched to camn XD

[ZazieR]

@Zilla
Ok, looking at your reason for voting Porkens, it seemed your vote was serious.
I'm not convinced that it really was jokey.

[ZazieR]

There's one post which has my attention. But I'm not planning to comment on it soon though.

Also, just like camn, I'm having finals.
One of them includes that numbers thingy which was mentioned in the Davinci Code. You know '11235...'
And as I'm bored right now, I'm wondering how it would look backwards XD

[ZazieR]

obvious scum tactic to raise postcount to avoid being called a lurker

You accused me once of this, and my explanation still counts for this.
But once again, thanks for the accusation

[ZazieR]

Also, just like camn, I'm having finals.

But, as we all know, you don't have them on sundays

How do you know O.o? Obv stalker
No, I don't. But I have to study for two (actually one as I can't really study for the other) which I should as I screwed one exam up as you already know >.<
I actually have my book open. Can you believe that ?

[ZazieR]

Fair enough to 62 and 65, I suppose. ZazieR's reaction to your questions/comments didn't really lead me to believe that this was some running gag between you and her but yeah. ZazieR, is this true for the most part?

Post 62 is true. Ongoing game though. But he did ask me why I was doing multiple small posts there.
Post 65 is also true as I don't have any exams on sunday. But I blew one final, which he knows, so I want to have a good mark for the last two. To undo the damage

[ZazieR]

Little Brother issues.
He causes me a lot of update time >.<

post to come tomorrow.

[ZazieR]

And yes, ZazieR needs to post. Mykonian is due as well.

I already told it, I've got Little Brother issues. Due to him, I have less time to update games in which I need to get caught up with.
And it also seems I'll be having boyfriend issues as well as he'll be working more often.
The good news is that I have my last final today, so I'll be having more time soon.

Oh, and a point of interest for you perhaps, I sleep when most of you discuss >.<


(Just a post to say that I'll be updating now, and will post today my thoughts.)

[ZazieR]

Ok, before posting my thoughts about each post that I have missed:
Porkens, did you kill AFC? And if so, why?

[ZazieR]

Post 78, Zilla

In this post, you state that your Porkens vote was for a bit serious, but not completely. So, for clarification, did one or both of these quotes make you suspicious of him, or not:

is that a REAL doublevote?

vote VP Baltar

for the 'we' in "we are all screwed.

vote: LlamaFluff

for not posting anything but a vote. Even a bad justification is better than none.

Why?

accountability.

hmm, I guess I'll have to wait for the votecount to see if you're just being silly or not...

When answering, can you quote which is/are suspicious to you with reasons?
I'll get back to this part when answered as this question might be of importance for two other posts.

I think I only modded a marathon game with ZazieR. And I can't remember if she was the one who was replaced before the game started or not.

No, that wasn't me. Because I was the one who suffered from it

[ZazieR]

Ugh, I'll go over the discussion between Zilla and Myko some other time. If I'm correct, it continues even after this page, so this way, I'll have at least my thoughts about it organised.

and I'm already 16. So don't treat me like a child

Sorry to disappoint you, but you are already ...
Saying that you are younger, doesn't make you younger

[ZazieR]

I'm not claiming doublevoter. It was a mechanism to draw discussion, which it did. Porkens then asked if I was a doublevoter. That was the reaction I was looking for, and that's why I voted him. Llama, I assume you see the bad logic in saying:

If that vote was at all serious, thats just a very bad vote. Its a very obvious ability, and easily could lynch someone when someone just wanted a claim out of them. These are very double edged blades.

Firstly, nobody else was voting Porkens and I fully didn't expect it to be a lynch. Secondly, I already implied I was a doublevoter before voting Porkens. Nobody would put him at L-1 without questioning if I counted twice. Thirdly, you're arguing that, in the event I was a doublevoter and serious, that voting at all is apparently bad, and this has nothing to do with voting Porkens.

I'll get back to this quote later after I've looked more closely at Zilla.

[ZazieR]

Post 95, Kevin

There's one post which has my attention. But I'm not planning to comment on it soon though.

Um, what?

There was a post that set off my gut. But if I'd comment on it at that point, the player could possibly change his/her approach in this game. If his/her play stays the same, I'll get back to that post.

Also, you posted some quotes in this post from Zilla. Could you state which of them are scummy to you and why?

[ZazieR]

I have to go soon, so I start at post 103 when I get back. But I'll answer Incog's question first:

@ZazieR: I reasonless voted in this game once, and I happen to know that you dislike reasonless votes. Why did you not call me out about it?

Do you want the long version, or the short, which is that Glork showed me the light ?
Also, I didn't comment on it as you stated a reason for voting Myko. Besides, I know now what response you'll get when you ask why a player voted another without stating his reasons as some players have asked me when I did do this.

[ZazieR]

Howdy Y'all.

I'm sorry for my relative inactivity the last couple days. I've been busy prepping for the Summer quarter and re-settling in Arkansas.

Just so there's no ambiguity at all; I shot afatchick. I had been hemmin' and hawing about daykilling a number of people; VP Baltar, Mykonian, Incognito, Plum, or Zilla. But then, afatchick promised a re-read on Saturday. I realized he was, actually,

in the game

and, furthurmore, that he'd only posted twice in a 6 page game (that's less than ME). When his re-read didn't come for over 24 hours, I got the twitch and made the call (and you better believe I rubbed my belli when he flipped scum PR).

I was also considering hammering Zilla in the next post, but I have this nagging feeling that he's not scum (which I may or may not be able to articulate well). And then Plum made my decision easier with her unvote.

I ~think~ I'd be happier with a Mycon lynch over a Zilla one at the moment, but I'm going to hold off on a vote (hammer?) until I take one more look which, unfortunately, I don't have time to do right now.

What I'd really, really like to see when I get back, if anyone has time, is an analysis of VP Baltar and Llamafluffs interactions with one-another in the game so far. I think I see...~something~ but I'd like an unbiased, second opinion.

What are your reasons for thinking about killing those players?
Also, if you're not a 'full' vig (which you'll have to prove day 2), but a one-shot, expect my vote tomorrow.

[ZazieR]

What are your reasons for thinking about killing those players?
Also, if you're not a 'full' vig (which you'll have to prove day 2), but a one-shot, expect my vote tomorrow.

???

a one shot mafia vig that shoots his own buddy?

very unlikely.

Porkens who doesn't have a lurking Zazie in list of players who he was thinking about killing is very unlikely to be town.

[ZazieR]

What are your reasons for thinking about killing those players?
Also, if you're not a 'full' vig (which you'll have to prove day 2), but a one-shot, expect my vote tomorrow.

???

a one shot mafia vig that shoots his own buddy?

very unlikely.

Porkens who doesn't have a lurking Zazie in list of players who he was thinking about killing is very unlikely to be town.

but he shot a mafia powerrole, and you threaten to vote him if he is a one shot. What does that have to do with who he has on his list?

If he's a one-shot, I find it suspicious that he has used it almost at the start.
Second, his claim. Why would a dayvig claim right away?
Third, I wasn't on his list, while I was lurking as well.

I can see a 1-shot daykill mafia, but not a daykill mafia. This is why I'm giving Porkens a chance for today to prove tomorrow if he's a dayvig. If he's not, point 3 is a very big tell against him.

[ZazieR]

Why would a daykill mafia shoot a powerrole on his team unprovoked, especially one as useful as Governor?

To let others think that he's town?
Sorry, but he should either be a dayvg or have a very good reason why I wasn't on that list in order for me to think something else.

[ZazieR]

Why would a daykill mafia shoot a powerrole on his team unprovoked, especially one as useful as Governor?

He wouldn't. Zazie has to assume a lucky 2nd team mafia, or a daykill SK to make this work. Unlikely, so I won't vote for Porkens tomorrow because of that.

Why would a daykill mafia shoot a powerrole on his team unprovoked, especially one as useful as Governor?

To let others think that he's town?

Sorry, but he should either be a dayvg or have a very good reason why I wasn't on that list in order for me to think something else.

[ZazieR]

There are much easier ways to look town, then to daykill a mafia governor

It's about the succes rate not to find an easy way.
But I'll wait till tomorrow to see if my suspicions are correct.

[ZazieR]

And while waiting, Porkens can of course tell why I wasn't included in that list.

[ZazieR]

To let others think that he's town?

Wouldn't the same thing be achieved by killing a goon?

Who says there are goons present?

[ZazieR]

Ok, I started at the mod scene of afc's death. And first of all,

mod

- eventhough AFC was a werewolf and werewolfes, as far as I know, don't change gender. So could you please keep it this way, and make him a guy again in your flavour?

Second, is this:

afatchic, Forest Wolf Governor, has been pierced through the heart.

This could mean that there are two scum groups, based upon SpyreX previous modded game.

[ZazieR]

@Incog
In post 171, you mention two posts from AFC and you give some comments on it. What were your conclusions from it regarding his second quote and why?:

Ninja'd.

doublevote: afatchic

for the same reason as Llamafluff.

Only scum would wanna lynch two people right at the start!

Serious accusation towards Zilla dressed up as a joke

[ZazieR]

Porkens claims dayvig? Awesome job anyhow! (ducks incoming votes for commenting on what just happened).

Hypocriting (complain that it's not a real verb, and Rena WILL visit you. You've been warned )
Is the part between brackets serious or not?


(Extra note, my computer is very slow today. So it might take more time to post the things I want to say...)

[ZazieR]

I don't think mykonian is scum, because his reason for voting Zilla was crap, and it would be dumb to vote your partner like that if you were scum.

You admit that mykonian's reason for voting Zilla was crap and yet you still come to the conclusion that he's likely not scum? Like

seriously?

Yes. Call it the 'too dumb to be scum' fallacy or whatever, but it's just too sloppy and careless for a scumbag to make, I believe.

Ah, yes, fallacies.

Everybody's

Scum's best friend.
*Will get back to this when I have my thoughts about Zilla and Myko ready*

[ZazieR]

B) I DID understand he charter-lurker comment. But if he will vote CHARTER for lurking, why wouldn't he vote AFATCHIC for the same?
Especially considering that with charter, being scummy is practically a way of life, and someone pointed that out?

I had assumed at the time it was because Mykonian was making that comment based on Charter's meta. This needs more explanation by Mykonian, who dodged this completely.

Judo-speculation: Is camn's interest in afatchic solely based on lurking?

I think it is, personally.

Ok, first of all the first part. If this is before Myko explained why he mentioned Charter, but not AFC, it will be noted down. I 'love' it when other players 'answer' before the aimed player.
And yes, camn hates lurkers. Obv as she doesn't like me

[ZazieR]

[quote="Charter]

the rest are apparently angry at me for voting Porkens on a weak premise (when we were transitioning, thanks to me, out of RVS, I should remind you, with a 75% joke vote)

...and my vote is parked for the day. Zilla is going way too far with all this chest pounding with getting us out of the RVS. Whoopdie freaking doo. It's not a towntell in the slightest, and yet Zilla is trying to make it out like she's town for doing a scummy action to transition out of the RVS using all this "I did it for reactions" bs.

First, I'm not saying I'm town for getting us out of RVS. I'm saying that my vote on Porkens wasn't all that serious. Second, "all this chest pounding?" Not only does that put a disturbing image in my head, but I haven't been saying that I deserve any town-points for being the one to stir up serious discussion. Third, I never claimed to vote Porkens for reactions. Yes, I wanted to see where plum was going with her "is that serious?" but that had nothing to do with transitioning out of RVS. Fourth, this ignores the actual point, that people are suspecting me for a weak vote.

This is why I hate Charter.[/quote]

1. No, you're not saying that you're town. But due to your wording of the first quote of the 'pyramid' above, it gives the impression that we should be 'rewarding' you, instead of [INSERT WORD THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF 'REWARDING']
(Bold for clarification will be done if asked)
2.
3.

I'm not claiming doublevoter. It was a mechanism to draw discussion, which it did. Porkens then asked if I was a doublevoter. That was the reaction I was looking for, and that's why I voted him.

4. Weak AND hypocritical vote

[ZazieR]

@ All: Is not casting a random vote more or less suspect than casting a random vote without jokey reasoning provided? Also, does anyone know if Myk has a history of avoiding voting in the random stage at all?

I have checked four games, as he mostly replaced in in the games I've had with him.
Open 135 - scum - no randomvote
Open 145 - town - randomvote
Mini 738 - scum - randomvote
Mini 724 - town - no randomvote
Based on this, I say that there's 50% chance he's scum
As for your first reason, neither is suspicious to me.

Zazie, show up soon

Here for now, as I'll be going offline in +/- 2 hours for something important
In case you're wondering what, I'll be cheating on my boyfriend XD He knows though, so no biggie

I'll get back later to this post though when I know more about the Myko and Zilla cases.

[ZazieR]

There is no reason to assume Porkens is, at this point, anything but town. I'm interested in the points Zazie is bringing up

Because Plum asked, my reasons for saying this is based upon meta. My first game with Porkens, I was lurker scum as some players here can remember .
My second game with Porkens was a newbie game in which I started active, but in the end became again lurker scum. Porkens even pointed out in that game that I had lurked before as scum.
In our third game, Porkens was scum. I was even a worse lurker there, but he did not mention this at all in that game.
After that, there was a long break till we had our fourth game. I got replaced quite early, and again, was scum.
This is our fifth game, but before this one, I asked him to replace me into a newbie game. In that one, I was quite active. Porkens also know the reason why I replaced out, and I hope that neither he and Kevin (and if Myko knows, Myko as well) will tell what it was. I was town.

Anyway, my point is that all these games should have given Porkens the impression that I lurk as scum. He even admitted this in one game as I already said. And this is one of my reasons (the other two were already mentioned) why I think Porkens is scum. As he didn't consider a lurking Zazie, but shot a lurker.

You do realize that your vote on mykonian placed him at L-1 too right? Were you concerned about ANYONE being at L-1 so quickly when you stated the above or just Zilla?

I'm ashamed to say that I didn't, and I would not have voted him at that point had I realized that. Now that you've unvoted and he's at L-2, well, he remains my top suspect.

mhmm...

[ZazieR]

Also, I have reacted on zazie here, that brought something really unusual up, that is hard to believe to come from town.

Oh? You were suspicious of me for my suspicions against Porkens? I couldn't tell that from the posts which reacted to it.
Also, you've seen worse from me (the stuff you searched which I didn't want you to). So, this is highly noted.

[ZazieR]

There was a post that set off my gut. But if I'd comment on it at that point, the player could possibly change his/her approach in this game. If his/her play stays the same, I'll get back to that post.

Um, fair enough I guess.

I'll probably mention it when I put down my thoughts about each player, but Myko should be able to figure out which post it is

Also, if you're not a 'full' vig (which you'll have to prove day 2), but a one-shot, expect my vote tomorrow.

You'd vote someone who shot scum? Why?

For meta reasons, just explained. Short version, Porkens knows me as lurker scum, but decided to shoot another lurker. And the other two reasons already mentioned.

Are you suggesting that scum have a Governer, Dayvig, and something more powerful? I'm not completely sure what a Governer does, but VP's post suggests that it is powerful

Could be possible, but I think there are two scum teams.

[ZazieR]

Also, I have reacted on zazie here, that brought something really unusual up, that is hard to believe to come from town.

Oh? You were suspicious of me for my suspicions against Porkens? I couldn't tell that from the posts which reacted to it.

I questioned it for the fun of it?

Also, you've seen worse from me (the stuff you searched which I didn't want you to). So, this is highly noted.

we still don't agree.

Then why did you point it out as example that you're not tunnelvisioning if you only questioned it for the fun?

And apparently, we disagree. Though I've always been good at going after players who were 'confirmed'...

[ZazieR]

I am also not comprehending ZazieR's post 202, Porkens is quite definately town in my book. Her explainations don't make sense either (I understand what she's saying, I don't think it's right).

What was I saying according to you?

[ZazieR]

I agree that one shot should not of been used when it was, but its not a scumtell at all. Some people prefer to use one shot roles early, I try and use limited abilities by night two.

It was pointed out by many players that they would be busier this week. Porkens himself was also a player who had something this week.
Also, the game was just less than 4 days after starting. And he already killed a lurker.
Note that he also told that one of his reasons for shooting AFC was because AFC hadn't delivered his promised update.
So why not wait till AFC had posted more? It doesn't matter to me that it was day 1, but that it was done in less than four days. That makes it scummy to shoot a lurker. And, that he didn't shoot me as lurker makes it even worse.

The claim is odd, that one I will give you. Its nothing to lynch him over though by any means. Some roles are ambiguous though when you match up their name and ability, so it may of been fakeable. Porkens should full claim (is his role "Day Vig" or something else).

No, Porkens should not full-claim. In case he's telling the truth, it's time for the scum to guess if he's still has power or not. Porkens can prove tomorrow if he's a full day vig or not. No full-claim needed.
The timing of the claim is scummy. With his ':blam:', he made it obv that he was the one who shot. Had he done it afterwards that he had shot, I wouldn't see it as scummy. But he did it before the result was shown. Very scummy timing.

Im not sure why you even bring up three. Are you accusing him of buddying up to you or something like that?

As pointed out, meta reasons. Why does everybody think I'm accusing him of buddying up to me

The fact that you are railing on Porkens for being scum when he used a day vig to kill scum, who was also a gov (prevents lynch and day goes to night if IIRC), with no concrete evidence... wow.

That I didn't give evidence when pointing this out, doesn't mean I didn't have any.

[ZazieR]

I'm not saying a day one shot is bad, I just dont think it was the right time for it.

This. Why does nobody else question Porkens timing for a lurker kill?

[ZazieR]

Zaz, you weren't on my list because...well, I didn't think of it. No offence, but you aren't a leading wagon, and you haven't been, at least by comparison, as vocal for or against them, either. You weren't even close to the level of lurking that afatchick was, and you didn't promis a re-read and then fail to deliver. In regards to this:

Porkens who doesn't have a lurking Zazie in list of players who he was thinking about killing is very unlikely to be town.

What's your theory? That you and I are scumbuddies?

here you go
And my theory is that you are scum.

While we're at it, what was your reason for 'claiming' before the result was shown?

[ZazieR]

Re: Porkens - I'm inclined to believe the claim and am leaning towards believing he's likely town. Aside from the fact that he killed scum, I think the way he claimed strikes me as very town-ish too; I'm usually a sucker for unprovoked claims more often coming from town than scum, and his explanation for why he killed afatchic before afatchic got around to producing any content (Porkens had a strong level of anxiousness to actually USE his role) goes along with his urge to claim as well. I won't be supporting a Porkens-lynch anytime soon, if at all. I need to reread ZazieR's beef with Porkens because I don't think it makes much sense at this time.

Long story short: Anxiousness to kill and anxiousness to claim = likely Porkens-town.

Or he was anxiousness to claim, because he knew it would give him lots of townie points which is good for him as scum (<-- My thoughts)
This also applies if he's scum from a different scumgroup, and if he's from the same scumgroup, AFC couldn't give any information to us.

[ZazieR]

Have to leave soon, so just pointing out that I'm at post 243 for tomorrow.

[ZazieR]

Two groups? Why?

Scum are coloured in red and have the name of their role included, but there is no name of the mafia.