Mini 788 - Fantasy Mafia [OVER]

[Kmd4390]

Vote Andycyca

I've seen you around and never played a game with you. And there's a bandwagon.

Eh? Since when do you random vote somebody else than a player you know?
And why Andy, and not Sudo?

I know Andy from GTKAS and occasional appearances in ScumChat. I've never played mafia with him. He seemed like a good place to put my random vote.

Kevin, what was your opinion of Bear (Orto) at the time you wrote Post 53?

Make me look back at my posts...



Really though. That was the one where I asked why he was being intentionally scummy. My opinion was that he thought he was helping by getting reactions.

Kevin, don't you agree that you should look into the player you are voting for?
If so, why aren't you doing that regarding Andy?

I looked at as much as I could. The reason for a back-and-forth with Goat, and not Andy, was simply the fact that Goat was more active.

[Andycyca]

Wow, now Zazier will be the first replacement in every game I'll mod.

Regarding Andy's vote against Orto, can you rephrase this part of your explanation:

Oh I see now. Here's what I meant: I didn't know whether your post was serious or not, but I assumed not, since we were already discussing meatier events. However, You were making a very weird statement (vouching for his towniness). Since we were already discussing non-jokes I read it as stalling other discussions.

Ok, here it is:

1. I didn't knew whether his post was serious or not
2. I read the overall discussions at that time. I find them as non-joke
3. I thought that, since we were already discussing relevant things, his post was either intentionally scummy or still random
4. I think that both attitudes are antitown, since they can stall discussion.

[ZazieR]

I try to take all my mafia experience into consideration when I play any game.

The games that I spoke of were "all power" games. There weren't any "you are just town and all you can do is vote". Some people were immune to lynch, some immune to vig, others could block someone's actions. I wouldn't be surprised at all to run into these type of roles here on this site. It was just an idea of what MAY be, especially because this is a FANTASY themed mafia game.

It just may be worth the thought is all.

Ok, if I remember correctly, you brought possible powerroles up as Kevin's vote against Andy could be a cover. And this was the only thing that is holding you back on Kevin. Which means you think that Andy is scum. So why no vote?
I also would like to know your reason for discussing possible roles now, while we haven't had one day or night finished yet. It seems like you're making up a reason not to vote Kevin.

[ZazieR]

I think it's a perfect time to speculate of roles. What if we end up voting out someone who is a potential help for the village?

End what if we end up outing a powerrole due to the discussion?
If we end up voting a player, there's most of the time time enough for that player to claim. So if he has a powerrole, he can be saved from a lynch.
Discussing powerroles is bad, and if needed I can look again what I've said about it in a different game.

[ZazieR]

EBWOP
Also, the quote in the above post from Star, was in response to this post:

Star, taking shots at "everyone" is me thinking I have the 3 scum found and going after those three players. How am I being insulting or defensive?

Goat, you (or anyone else here) probably won't face my real wrath. I've been warned by a List Mod recently, but the game is ongoing. XD

Star, I'd say we should probably stop discussing roles that could be in the game. There is no reason to speculate on anyone's roles just yet.

I see, I see what Goat didn't see and that's that Star missed a question.
So Star answer it, and Goat explain why you didn't comment on this.

[ZazieR]

You have a point. All I was doing was discussing. But seeing how quickly you jumped, you just got a bit more of my suspicions.

This to me doesn't make sense at all. Kevin disagreed, which is why he responded. She later admits that he has a point, yet it's scummy to her that he 'quickly' jumped on.
If you disagree, you try to stop it asap. So I want to hear why it's scummy according to her.

[ZazieR]

I think it would be beneficial, probably day 2 or 3 (some time later on) if we did a mass flavor claim. Anyone agree? Disagree?

Depends on what has happened. I say that it should be discussed later on, and not now. But why did you bring this up, OP?

[ZazieR]

Vote; Starbuck

- Speculation.

Why in this post (post 188) and not post 174?

[TonyMontana]

Star, taking shots at "everyone" is me thinking I have the 3 scum found and going after those three players. How am I being insulting or defensive?

The

3 scum? Really? Not just 3 scum, but

the

3, implying you know how many scum there are.

[ZazieR]

Vote: Empking

Bandwagoning.

It just seemed very opportunistic and he basically repeated what has already been said.

I don't like this vote due to the reason given.

[Empking]

Vote; Starbuck

- Speculation.

Why in this post (post 188) and not post 174?

It looked scummier when I came back to it.

[ZazieR]

The only argument mentioned in the post Goat votes Kevin I can agree with is:

Being on Andycyca for as long as he was without commenting on him at all is a definite scum tell.

But I'll get to this in my response to Kevin's last post.

Also, regarding this:

I also dislike his assertion that he missed my questions when he had answered the rest of my post. It's a dishonest answer, and he had no reason not to simply tell the truth as town.

What's the truth, according to you then?

Also, three of the four mentioned arguments were already present before you voted. The only one absent that happened between the post before you voted and the post in which you voted, was the Star vote. So why did you only vote later?
Not to forget that you've also been very long on the Andy wagon, yet you didn't mention him after the post in which you voted and in the post you voted. So why do you attack him for something you did as well?
I'm interested to hear your elaboration about the 'no scumhunting' argument, as I think it's untrue.
Which leaves the Star vote. Why is it weak? Because Star is scummy, and depending on the responses to my post, she's one of the players who can get my vote. I'll reveal the others later.

[ZazieR]

Ok, that's what happens when you first respond and afterwards continue reading >.<

I don't think you missed part of it. I think you chose not to answer part of it. The post in question is post 94, which was a short post. Claiming you simply missed those questions altogether, when they were literally the first thing in the post and when you were the first response to the post is, quite frankly, hard to believe is true.

This is scummy as hell. Now, Goat attacks Kevin as he thinks Kevin's lying about his reasong for not answering a question. Had Kevin gave the reason Goat expected, he probably would have been attacked by Goat for not wanting to answer a question. Seems like Goat is looking for reasons to attack Kevin.

What exactly is weak about my vote? Starbuck had NO reason to be speculating about the roles that are in this game if she is town.

You attacked my vote on TM under the guise that I was experienced and should know better. Do you consider Starbuck experienced enough to know better? Do you really think blatant, undisguised rolefishing like that is an actual scum-tell or an inexperienced-tell?

Wait. Does this mean you think it's a weak vote, because you see Star as in-experienced?

Asking questions can be scumhunting, certainly. I'm not arguing that asking questions is scummy. I'm saying that all you've really done is ask questions, and I believe

that

is scummy.

I disagree, as he's asked questions and has discussed what in his eyes should be discussed.

[ZazieR]

Star, regarding the powerroles.
The scum know which powers they have. If our powerroles will claim, they will know what each player has as role and can take down the stronger ones.
We'll only know what our side has. So we'll be fighting an invisble enemy.

Is this good or bad according to you, and why?

[Kmd4390]

Star, taking shots at "everyone" is me thinking I have the 3 scum found and going after those three players. How am I being insulting or defensive?

The

3 scum? Really? Not just 3 scum, but

the

3, implying you know how many scum there are.

In a mini, I usually assume 3. It's not always the case, but usually is.

[ZazieR]

O.o I hadn't seen yet that my posts had filled the previous page that much...

Anyway, Kevin's response. Like I said, there's one argument from Goat I agree with. Which is why this bothers me a lot:

Kevin, don't you agree that you should look into the player you are voting for?
If so, why aren't you doing that regarding Andy?

I looked at as much as I could. The reason for a back-and-forth with Goat, and not Andy, was simply the fact that Goat was more active.

As many might remember, post 96 was Andy's first 'real' post after he got back. Kevin is the first to respond after this post, yet doesn't address any of it, while an explanation was made for post 24. The same can be said about Goat, as he was the second to post after post 96. Both were voting Andy, yet both didn't address the part in that post which addressed their reason for voting him.
Kevin did ask if others saw a Goat - Andy scumteam, with as reason 'distancing', after this post. But later, this isn't mentioned anymore.
Though later, Kevin's stubbornness returns regarding Star.

[ZazieR]

Wow, now Zazier will be the first replacement in every game I'll mod.

Uhm, that's not a good idea >.<

Oh I see now. Here's what I meant: I didn't know whether your post was serious or not, but I assumed not, since we were already discussing meatier events. However, You were making a very weird statement (vouching for his towniness). Since we were already discussing non-jokes I read it as stalling other discussions.

rephrased

1. I didn't knew whether his post was serious or not
2. I read the overall discussions at that time. I find them as non-joke
3. I thought that, since we were already discussing relevant things, his post was either intentionally scummy or still random
4. I think that both attitudes are antitown, since they can stall discussion.

Ok, then there's nothing wrong with that post.

[ZazieR]

Star, taking shots at "everyone" is me thinking I have the 3 scum found and going after those three players. How am I being insulting or defensive?

The

3 scum? Really? Not just 3 scum, but

the

3, implying you know how many scum there are.

I've learned now a few times that 'slips' are bad to follow. So I don't think it's important.
However, you are also one of the few who voted Andy at the start of this game. What's your opinion of him now?

[Kmd4390]

As many might remember, post 96 was Andy's first 'real' post after he got back. Kevin is the first to respond after this post, yet doesn't address any of it, while an explanation was made for post 24.

Nothing in 96 stood out as anything I should be responding to. It's all directed at other players.

Kevin did ask if others saw a Goat - Andy scumteam, with as reason 'distancing', after this post. But later, this isn't mentioned anymore.
Though later, Kevin's stubbornness returns regarding Star.

Their posts looked like playful distancing. That's the only point I have towards a connection though.

Is something wrong with my vote on Star?

[ZazieR]

So, I only need to check the discussion between Sudo and Bear, Goat and Kevin.

Anyway, at this moment I'm not liking Star and Goat.
So I'll post later why in a seperate post, after I've gotten through the just named discussions.
Also, some players need to get more active. Be quick, or Rena will hunt you down if you are one of them

[ZazieR]

Nothing in 96 stood out as anything I should be responding to. It's all directed at other players.

Though he once again called post 24 a joke in this post. Yet, the only time you address 'his joke vote' is here:

KMD: Why are you voting Andy?

The way he went after Goat and then called it sarcasm.

So there was something you could address.
Also, Bear does respond to this post. And makes some points against Andy. Yet, you didn't look into those and posted your opinion about them. And this kinda reminds me of Open 139 (lovers game). Discussing with somebody else, while voting another player.

Is something wrong with my vote on Star?

Check my posts. You'll see that Star is one of my top suspicions. So no. Not to me.

[Kmd4390]

Hmm. Thought I did say more about that vote. Looking back, I really didn't.

What's wrong with discussing things with multiple players? (Which lovers game was 139? The one where I was scum with Plum? Kirroha was lurking in that game, so I didn't really get a chance to discuss anything with her. This would be true regardless of my alignment there.)

What did you mean about "stubbornness" if there's nothing wrong with the vote?

[ZazieR]

What's wrong with discussing things with multiple players? (Which lovers game was 139? The one where I was scum with Plum? Kirroha was lurking in that game, so I didn't really get a chance to discuss anything with her. This would be true regardless of my alignment there.)

Is it that hard to remember your games >.<
Open 139 is indeed the game with Plum.
There's nothing wrong with discussing things with multiple players, however when you vote somebody you focus mainly on that player. Kirroha may have been lurking, but you didn't make any case against her, other than that she could have been a partner with everybody. Which is why I was planning to check over other scum games first. Besides, my meta attacks have been proven many times wrong now, so it's not a major point. It is something that I'll keep in mind though may your scum games match your play.

What did you mean about "stubbornness" if there's nothing wrong with the vote?

Mainly attacking the player whom you're voting, and less paying attention to the other discussions around you. And you'll get the impression that you're right, making you even more determined not to let go of these attacks. aka stubborn.

[Kmd4390]

I don't know the numbers of games. I know the names of the games and the Mods.

I tend to focus on a select few players who grab my attention regardless of alignment. You can judge that on your own though. XD

So what else should I be paying attention to that I'm not around the time I vote Star? I try to respond to everything that stands out. The second part, I can agree that I have a habit of going after my suspicions, and only my suspicions, once I think I'm right.

[ZazieR]

So what else should I be paying attention to that I'm not around the time I vote Star?

I don't understand this question
Can you rephrase?