Mini 792 - Tofu Mafia. Game over!

[Ectomancer]

Before I forget

unvote

vote Adel

All of the promises of graphs and analysis and what not has become her defensive mechanism to avoid dying day 1. People usually let her ride until Day 2 for her promised Holy Grail of Analytical scum, and to be quite honest, I've rarely found that they help me find scum, and I dont see where Adel's play has improved either. Adel deserves the hardcore pressure cooker.

[Porkens]

agreed.

unvote, vote: Adel

[Ectomancer]

Ok, since this has become a topic (and partly due to the VLA thread in MD), I felt compelled to make a response. Yes I'm on heavy drugs that if taken at the dose I'm now on will knock your dick in the dirt.
I did quit playing mafia for 2 months and flaked on 4 games at once (still having problems spelling), I did not want to flake on the only one that I helped create.
Someone said I can't believe that I would take the time to make a post here. Back near when I first started, I had to sit with pillows propped to keep me upright so I wouldn't drown from the fluids caused by pneumonia (First time I though I was about to die within a day or two). I actually posted quite a bit there.

I'll say this, though my being tells me not to do it. Ectomancer is my persona nearly everywhere, and I would hate to have to retire him.

So please leave this in thread.

I realize that by saying it, I no longer have control over the information, but I'll say it anyhow. I had pictures, but the doc through it would be detrimental to my situation. So....
Long story short (please don't ask questions about it, I'm not asking for, not do I want any help, I've got it
I took one of those orange box cutters from home depot or something where you just snap off the blade for a new one when the old one gets worn out and dull. I made 134 slashes and words between 2 and 14-15 inches across my chest and stomach and went through 5 of those snap off blades. I got interrupted or there would have been 500-1000 (depends on long the blades last).

So there you go. Mafia is therautic for me, so I do enjot playing, I just wish my damn fingers would remember where the latters on the keyboard are!!

Once again, leave it here please. If you want to meta me, know that I both start and drive games and I hate lurking as a tactic ti wiun,.

[Herodotus]

Scumhunting: trying to find who the scum are, and gathering evidence that will support an argument against them.
The fact that you're focusing on someone who is town makes me feel that what you're doing will not be helpful to the town. From my POV, it is, therefore, not "potentially useful scumhunting." And I don't see you doing any scumhunting that could lead to a scum.

Other than the fact that Zorblag was going in an activity crusade, not. You think he is scum?

I'd put him as suspicious enough to mention, but he's not my biggest suspect.

For each of Spring, Adel, and Zorblag, suppose that they are scum. What do you see as the strategic goals they are trying to accomplish with what they have written so far?

What is the point of this question? Im far from thinking they are scum. Stop deflecting the attention.

The point was to find out who the scum might be. Stop deflecting the question.

Why are you calling my vote in post 32 random, after I said it wasn't? Why would I claim to have a motive for placing a vote that was really random?

My problem with your first two posts is that they feel fabricated and you have admitted that. Its weird enough for a first random vote when everyone was making jokes.

Answer the questions.
Also, is "fabrication" a scum-tell? And in what way was post 31 "fabricated?" Did I not really want to know about Porkens's suspicions?
It was not your first vote. Are you saying that your page 1 vote was not random?

My question is what do you think of Adel? And why doid you vote her?

I am not voting Adel, and don't find Adel to be the most scummy.

My current read on Adel is that Adel is not suspicious enough to warrant an FoS or vote. In some ways, I agree with Artem's 316, though I am relatively patient. I have already explained why I voted Adel: nonparticipation and a contradiction. Adel is now participating, even if he's being mysterious. I think viewing omissions to answers of the 5 questions as an honesty test to be weak, but it still mitigates the contradiction.
Now tell me why you are asking questions over and over when some of them were answered before the first time you asked.

I singled out your "case"

That wasn't exactly my case, though it was similar. It was an example of what I was looking for from you. In the question you deflected.

a) Im not freaking lurking. Dont you read what I post?

You are, and I have. As of when I voted you, I saw plenty of meaningless posts, and one double-post (ISO 25/26) with significant content. Given that I've discussed your double-post, and given your tendency to ask already-answered questions, I find your accusation ironic.
Your calling Elmo town was not my primary motivation for saying that you were buddying with him.

c) Im not calling almost everyone town. Please see above.

You just said:

Im far from thinking they are scum.

about the people who were supposedly your top three candidates beside myself. But more importantly, you were unwilling to comment on the hypothetical situation of any of them being scum. Either you find more than one person suspicious, or you don't. If the scummiest parts of your list have changed, tell us the amendments.

d)What useless point? What distancing? Please be more concise.

Twice, you have argued with Adel over things that were not relevant to finding the scum.

[Zorblag]

Troll be voting for someone who might have been V/LA over a weekend but then started posting that she was reading when she got prodded on Monday, followed with the question to the mod, posted a single question about the posts just before it on Tuesday and finally got to contributing on Wednesday. Again, if you had something holding you back about some interactions on Monday when you asked the mod the question that no be a reason to give nothing past that.

So if I'm reading this correctly, you're saying that s-lullaby deliberately stalled her post until Wednesday when she had something ready(ish) on Monday. Calling someone out for lurking is simple enough, but you seem to be giving a somewhat detailed schedule of s-lully's lurking...?

Troll be basing that schedule on what springlullaby said in post 233:

If you are meant to ask why I asked that question, it's because it crossed my mind while reading some interractions; it is a relevant question because it give an idea as to scum prepardness and it is one which would have deserved a public answer.

Troll took this to mean that springlullaby did have something to comment on on Monday when she asked the question but was putting it off. Troll can accept that springlullaby could have been busy and not had time to make the posts but there no was any indication that this was the case based on what she posted during that span.

Troll be fairly unimpressed by populartajo's answer to Troll's question (which him quoted as though it were from Herodotus but that no trouble's Troll too much) in post 350:

populartajo, Troll sees that you have looked through the game at this point though the path from your observations to your conclusions be a bit murky in some cases. Troll wonders if you could explain what it is that makes Herodotus your clear first choice for a vote at this time?

Hero is the only player that has caught my attention since page 2. Also this:

Really, the only one that hasnt given me protown vibes is Hero. There is a group that feels obvtown than the rest (town group) and also lotsa people feeling prob town (the fact that the elite is playing here prob is the reason) in the neutral groupings.

Saying that Herodotus be the only one that has caught his attention since day two no explains why Herodotus be the clear choice for the lynch any more than the previous post had. That much was clear but it no goes into the reasons why Herodotus has caught pupulartajo's attention. Further, having at least probably town reads on everyone else at this stage in the game be surprising. That the neutral leaning scummy classification for Adel and Troll be because populartajo no finds either to be obvious town seems something of a copout when comined with that. Placing springlullaby into the category based on more familiarity with her also no gives Troll any more to work with.

On the whole Troll agrees with what Herodotus has been saying about populartajo. Troll no be seeing an attempt to find scum and looking active by asking questions that have already been answered previously no seems productive. If populartajo be willing to classify Adel, springlullaby and Troll as neutral, leaning scum then Troll does agree that it be fair to expect an answer about what scum strategy might be being followed.

unvote

,

Vote: populartajo

springlullaby has played a game that be overly reactive since her V/LA but at least she be taking stances on players that can be used later. populartajo seems to be tunneling on Herodotus and not finding anyone else scummy which be a problem for Troll.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[caf19]

Votecount

Herodotus (3): Elmo, populartajo, Vi
populartajo (3): Adel, Herodotus, Zorblag
Artem (3): SpyreX, springlullaby, Korts
Porkens (1): Artem
Adel (2): Ectomancer, Porkens

Not voting

[populartajo]

The fact that you're focusing on someone who is town makes me feel that what you're doing will not be helpful to the town. From my POV, it is, therefore, not "potentially useful scumhunting."

And why would I have to know this from my own POV?

I'd put him as suspicious enough to mention, but he's not my biggest suspect.

Why do you think he is suspicious?

Also, is "fabrication" a scum-tell?

Yes, specially when its random stage and no one should be fabricating things. And when your next post is a "random" vote.

Did I not really want to know about Porkens's suspicions?

You think he was being serious?

Now tell me why you are asking questions over and over when some of them were answered before the first time you asked.

Needed clarification. You did vote Adel. Do you think he is helping town?

But more importantly, you were unwilling to comment on the hypothetical situation of any of them being scum. Either you find more than one person suspicious, or you don't. If the scummiest parts of your list have changed, tell us the amendments.

It hasnt changed. I can comment on the hypothetical situation of any of them being scum. I wanted to find out why you wanted me to post that.

1. Adel isnt giving me townie vibes for his refusal to comment his votes and analyze things even when he promised to. Pretty obvious here.

2. Zorblag isnt giving me townie vibes because he voted people that were not active instead of scumhunting properly.

3. Spring agression, only when attacked, also for obvious reasons dont give me townie vibes but as I stated, Im starting to think that this is a nulltell coming from Spring.

In neither of these cases, my suspicions indicate obv scumminess which is the reason why they are neutral leaning scummy. This isnt so hard to understand.

Twice, you have argued with Adel over things that were not relevant to finding the scum.

So now you are accusing me of distancing with Adel? WTF?

[populartajo]

Saying that Herodotus be the only one that has caught his attention since day two no explains why Herodotus be the clear choice for the lynch any more than the previous post had. That much was clear but it no goes into the reasons why Herodotus has caught pupulartajo's attention.

I did explain why Hero caught my attention.

Herodotus 31. Arg.

Porkens:
Was the point of your quote block in 21, particularly your fos on Ectomancer, sincere?

This just doesnt feel right. As I said before, it feels fabricated.

32 is also weird. Its an unexpected return to random stage after a weird question in 31. (with smiley included)

Heros'106 is an interesting move. Why the vote on Adel when you said you didnt have any significant degree suspicions? Are you always that liberal with your votes??

I also hate his Artem unvote and posterior fos, scared of I dont know what. I also hate his vote on me after Ive been "lurking" (according to him) only after Adel brougth this to the table. I also hate his relation with Adel that somehow goes to

Vote: Adel
You may be planning to contribute a lot soon, but so far you have not.

to this:

My current read on Adel is that Adel is not suspicious enough to warrant an FoS or vote.

Further, having at least probably town reads on everyone else at this stage in the game be surprising.

It shouldnt. These people are good looking town.

populartajo seems to be tunneling on Herodotus and not finding anyone else scummy which be a problem for Troll.

I am not tunneling oin Hero. I think he is scum and he should die. What do you think of him?

Also, I would like that your provide a list with your thought of every player here.

[Adel]

unvote, vote: Herodotus

he bailed on Atrem, and now is wagoning Tajo. I don't think that either of those players are scum.

If Herodotus is scum, I see Elmo as being his most likely buddy.

[Ectomancer]

Also, I would like that your provide a list with your thought of every player here.

I hate demands like this. Even if I make them.

unvote, vote: Herodotus

he bailed on Atrem, and now is wagoning Tajo. I don't think that either of those players are scum.

If Herodotus is scum, I see Elmo as being his most likely buddy.

Pairings on Day 1 is like the wagon leading the mule.

You are voting someone because they have voted people you don't think are scum. I'm not that medicated.
If you have something you can put together for those 2 people to be town enough to get someone else a vote, I'll give a listen, but I dont know how you could find those cases.

[SpyreX]

unvote, vote Adel

unvote, vote: Herodotus
he bailed on Atrem, and now is wagoning Tajo. I don't think that either of those players are scum.

meanwhile he has made more than 70 other posts on this site.

Bandwagon now, please.

meanwhile he has made more than 70 other posts on this site.

Bandwagon now, please.

unvote, vote:populartajo
reason: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... opulartajo
he is actively posting in other games, joined a large game, and is actively lurking in this game.

[Vi]

It looks in that pair of posts like you consider everyone except me to be town. As a townie, that leads me to conclude that you aren't doing any potentially useful scumhunting.

"Neutral slightly scum" doesn't really look like "I consider these people Town".
Counterpoint:

What is the point of this question? Im far from thinking they are scum. Stop deflecting the attention.

So... your focus is only on one person right now...? Three other people are throwing a "big red flag" (370) and you described why you suspect them (381), but you're "far from thinking they are scum"?

SpyreX 372 doesn't really add much to anything.

Prolific is what you all have been. Its hard to catch up, but a couple guesses here. Scum is on one of the big wagons and its probably not a bus.
Scum has already squared up against a town member, and though wants to look "on the case", wont actually push theirs to a lynch to avoid the obvious
"who was involved in lynching town"/

That's vague, but what you get from a skim (and Im not done yet)

Names, please.

Porkens, you seem to be playing noticeably differently than I remember. Is it just my imagination?

@Herodotus saying tajo was arguing with Adel over trivialities - Could you point me to specifically where they are so there's no confusion?

The fact that you're focusing on someone who is town makes me feel that what you're doing will not be helpful to the town. From my POV, it is, therefore, not "potentially useful scumhunting."

Imagine how I see your attempts to push Artem-probTown.
This also seems like a license to call people who accuse you scummy.

Adel 383 needs considerably more explanation than what was given considering the complete 180 on tajo.

If Herodotus is scum, I see Elmo as being his most likely buddy.

wha

Outside of what I pointed to above I don't really have a problem with tajo.

-----

Something that's been bothering me since the subject came up with Artem.
Open question: Does an argument necessarily lose credibility because someone else said it first?

[Adel]

lol, when did I say that tajo was scum? I simply wanted him to pay more attention to this game, and give opportunistic scum a chance to wagon with me.

[Vi]

lol, when did I say that tajo was scum? I simply wanted him to pay more attention to this game, and give opportunistic scum a chance to wagon with me.

'Seems like a recurring theme.
How many more wagons are you planning to not seriously start/join?

[Herodotus]

The fact that you're focusing on someone who is town makes me feel that what you're doing will not be helpful to the town. From my POV, it is, therefore, not "potentially useful scumhunting."

And why would I have to know this from my own POV?

I didn't say you did. I was only talking about my own feelings and my own POV.
But the fact is that if you're only interested in one person all day, and that person is town, then your play has not included useful scumhunting, whether you know it or not.

I'd put him as suspicious enough to mention, but he's not my biggest suspect.

Why do you think he is suspicious?

For the same reason I've already stated. I have not done a reread of him since then.

Also, is "fabrication" a scum-tell?

Yes, specially when its random stage and no one should be fabricating things. And when your next post is a "random" vote.

SMH
Did you miss the part where I asked why I'd make a random vote and have a substantial reason for that vote?

Why do you think my vote is random when I said myself that it wasn't?

I'm not sure we're using the same definition of "fabricating." Why should townies not be "fabricating" things, if it could lead to useful information? I'd like to know why you think that my plan (which I've already explained) was scummy.

Did I not really want to know about Porkens's suspicions?

You think he was being serious?

*headdesk*
Is this supposed to be a joke?
I asked him if he was being sincere

because I wanted to find out his answer.

If I already knew whether he was serious, then why on earth would I have asked?

Now tell me why you are asking questions over and over when some of them were answered before the first time you asked.

You did vote Adel. Do you think he is helping town?

I think it is more likely that he is trying to help the town than that he is not. I don't think his actions have yet produced a lot, but the same is true for anyone. As Artem can confirm, I don't mind apparently erratic, dramatic play.

But more importantly, you were unwilling to comment on the hypothetical situation of any of them being scum. Either you find more than one person suspicious, or you don't. If the scummiest parts of your list have changed, tell us the amendments.

It hasnt changed. I can comment on the hypothetical situation of any of them being scum. I wanted to find out why you wanted me to post that.

1. Adel isnt giving me townie vibes for his refusal to comment his votes and analyze things even when he promised to. Pretty obvious here.

2. Zorblag isnt giving me townie vibes because he voted people that were not active instead of scumhunting properly.

3. Spring agression, only when attacked, also for obvious reasons dont give me townie vibes but as I stated, Im starting to think that this is a nulltell coming from Spring.

In neither of these cases, my suspicions indicate obv scumminess which is the reason why they are neutral leaning scummy. This isnt so hard to understand.

So, will you be providing an answer to the question I actually asked?

I also hate his Artem unvote and posterior fos, scared of I dont know what.

Your decision not to answer my questions about that is noted.

Why do you hate that my suspicions of Adel have decreased? This is somwhat analogous to how I viewed Artem, I think. I tend to find someone suspicious, then if that person looks less scummy or someone else looks scummier, I move on. See my play day 1 in Moving Day Mafia. I think that shifting focus and/or votes during the day depending on what people say or do is a good idea when looking for the scum.

I am not tunneling oin Hero. I think he is scum and he should die.

I do not think "tunneling" means what you think it means.

"Neutral slightly scum" doesn't really look like "I consider these people Town".

His conclusions seemed to suggest he felt they were townish, just not obv-town.

@Herodotus saying tajo was arguing with Adel over trivialities - Could you point me to specifically where they are so there's no confusion?

His ISO 14-16 (though I do agree about not revealing alts,) 19-20, 29-30.
It was all 2-way, and a little of it involved you, too, but I don't currently have a scum read on you or Adel.

The fact that you're focusing on someone who is town makes me feel that what you're doing will not be helpful to the town. From my POV, it is, therefore, not "potentially useful scumhunting."

Imagine how I see your attempts to push Artem-probTown.
This also seems like a license to call people who accuse you scummy.

You are welcome to think that my pushing Artem was not useful scumhunting. If he turns out to be town, I will agree with you (though in that case, I would still want to believe that I helped to demonstrate his towniness via my pressure.) The difference is that I've considered more than one possibility. Also, I'm a little confused, since at one point you also seemed to be suspicious of Artem.

lol, when did I say that tajo was scum? I simply wanted him to pay more attention to this game, and give opportunistic scum a chance to wagon with me.

Like with Spyrex? Who was the scum who wagoned with you then?
Cue circular logic in 3, 2, 1...

[Korts]

Dammit I look away for one day and you have a completely new wall of text.

Expect me to go through it tomorrow.

[Vi]

I don't think

[Adel's]

actions have yet produced a lot, but the same is true for anyone.

What do you define as "produced a lot"?

His ISO 14-16 (though I do agree about not revealing alts,) 19-20, 29-30.

Regarding the first two sets: Do you think those answers (and objections) were relevant to the questionnaire? Do you think the questionnaire is itself relevant?

29 and 30 seems like a cheap shot at best and a misrepresentation of what constitutes triviality at worst. The type of lurking Adel was accusing tajo of is a pretty blatant universal scumtell; protesting it hardly seems trivial.

Also, I'm a little confused, since at one point you also seemed to be suspicious of Artem.

You're right. Since then the reasons driving his wagon have turned really sour, and I think I have a better read on Artem's intentions thanks to it.
To that end, I DO have a reason to thank you for pressuring him.

Like with Spyrex? Who was the scum who wagoned with you then?
Cue circular logic in 3, 2, 1...

...how do you NOT have a scummy read on Adel?

[Artem]

@Tajo: you asked me about my suspicions. Why? It feels like you dropped the subject.

Open question: Does an argument necessarily lose credibility because someone else said it first?

No, not necessarily.

But...

All of the votes on Adel are due to Adel being mysterious and withholding information (except SpyreX, who I think is voting Adel due to an inconsistent view of Tajo). While each new vote is based on the same reason as the previous one, the reason is legit and so are the votes. However, that makes it all the easier for scum to use the same reason (which still has credibility) to hop on Adel's wagon if Adel is town.

Porkens has been echoing a lot of sentiments that other players have. While each one may be a valid concern and having a second person echo it may be good, repeatedly doing so without generating own original content is a scumtell to me. (or at least a laziness-tell, but why would town be lazy in this game?)

@Adel: I think you should be more in-depth about your reasoning. It's hard to understand what you're thinking from one-liners. It's great that you have everybody's alignments figured out in your head, but you can't expect everybody else to take your reads seriously if you don't provide details.

Somebody mentioned that you like long posts. When I first saw that, I thought that you like to post long posts, which has not been the case so far? Do you only like to read long posts, or was that somebody wrong (I should probably go back and find the quote)? Or what?

Why should townies not be "fabricating" things, if it could lead to useful information?

But more likely it will lead to confusion and the lynching of the said townie.

Hero: Was your post 31 fabricated? If so, for what reason?
Tajo: Why do you think post 31 was fabricated?

@Spring: post

[Adel]

lol, when did I say that tajo was scum? I simply wanted him to pay more attention to this game, and give opportunistic scum a chance to wagon with me.

'Seems like a recurring theme.
How many more wagons are you planning to not seriously start/join?

this is how I play.

an example:
9 out of the 21 votes were cast by me. We (the town) won that game... as Ecto should recall, since he posted

Nice job Adel. I would have lynched Korts.

after we won in endgame (he was already dead at that point).


~~~

@ Korts: I know you are hella busy on site, and that some of these players have diarrhea of the hands in this game, but please try to get more involved here.

[Porkens]

Porkens has been echoing a lot of sentiments that other players have. While each one may be a valid concern and having a second person echo it may be good, repeatedly doing so without generating own original content is a scumtell to me. (or at least a laziness-tell, but why would town be lazy in this game?)

I get it that part of this attack is payback for when I called you out on

the same thing

, but it doesn't really stick in my craw because, well, every time you say it's scummy, your reinforcing

your own scumtells

.

If you really think I'm just following along, I'm flabbergasted. But even worse; otherwise, this is just a half-assed OMGUS.

[Artem]

The difference is that you were accusing me of following somebody else with my

votes/unvotes

. I'm accusing you of following others in your

arguments

. What original case have you brought to the table besides pointing out that Tajo was sitting on the fence?

Your recent vote for Adel is no different.

[Porkens]

I've been asking Adel to come out with her analysis for at least 10(?) pages.

[Adel]

I've been asking Adel to come out with her analysis for at least 10(?) pages.

you are talking to a person that thinks in terms of

days

instead of mere

pages

. I think you may need to find a new stalling tactic -- this one isn't going to get you anywhere.

[Porkens]

you are talking to a person that thinks in terms of days instead of mere pages. I think you may need to find a new stalling tactic -- this one isn't going to get you anywhere.

this post doesn't make sense because...

A: I'm talking to Artem, not you, at the moment.
B: Days or Pages, same difference in this case.
C: YOU are the one who's stalling, what do you accuse

me

of stalling?

[Adel]

unvote, vote Adel

unvote, vote: Herodotus
he bailed on Atrem, and now is wagoning Tajo. I don't think that either of those players are scum.

meanwhile he has made more than 70 other posts on this site.

Bandwagon now, please.

meanwhile he has made more than 70 other posts on this site.

Bandwagon now, please.

unvote, vote:populartajo
reason: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... opulartajo
he is actively posting in other games, joined a large game, and is actively lurking in this game.

Adel 383 needs considerably more explanation than what was given considering the complete 180 on tajo.

lol, when did I say that tajo was scum? I simply wanted him to pay more attention to this game, and give opportunistic scum a chance to wagon with me.

@SpyreX: since I established that there was no contradiction between my vote on tajo and my unvote, you've posted 13 times on this site. Why is your vote still on me?