Mini 793: Scrubs mafia- GAME OVER

[BrianMcQueso]

You should pick the one with pretty colors.

This is the kind of argument I can get behind

This is also not good. Obviously, wagoning just to wagon is one of the those policies with an exception when you are the object of the wagon. This seems like a rather weak attempt to sling a bit of mud in InHim’s direction.
I also dislike Brandi’s habit of calling people protown- this is unhelpful for the town, and potentially buddying or an attempt to look good later after they die. Like others, I also dislike the “bear this in mind” quote- while her explanation is valid, it just feels more like a scum stashing away an excuse to vote than a townie stating an obvious truth.

Fishy echoes a lot of my sentiments towards Brandi. Then she followed his post with what looks like a lot of defensive, snappy personal attacks. Anyone who votes her seems to get the brunt of it. Even when inHim backs off a little and says he's going to reconsider, Brandi attacks him for that (112). I'm starting to predict a little backlash myself:

unvote, vote: Brandi

[Gorrad]

My inactivity stems from my natural tendency towards D1 lurking and finals. Please bear with it for a bit more. I AM reading when I can.

[Brandi]

BMQ

, I can assure you your connection with those that vote me, and my attacks are not connected. Nothing about my attacks are personal, I'm merely stating my observations. I may be a friendly player, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give you hugs and kisses if I think you're scum. Which, I think that inHim is, though not as sure on Fishy. Obviously, I'm not 100% on inHim EITHER, just my suspicions of him based on his actions outweigh that of any one else at this point and time. If anything, inHim is the one who is being incredibly flippant and making personal attacks. I have not done such. I can see how my saying that he might be a VI might be taken as such, but that doesn't mean I consider him to be an -idiot-, just that his play is either very scummy and/or incredibly anti-town, making the term very fitting.

[Brandi]

Also, if you hadn't noticed, I had issues with inHim and Fishy BEFORE They voted me. I am the one being OMGUS'd. Maybe you should read more Brian, you are on the list of those who have been lurking.

[Brandi]

^Also want to note that inHim was OMGUS'ing me, not Fishy.

[Brandi]

Also, I really need to learn to proof-read things and put all my thoughts in one post.

I meant to say in my first line in PS 127:

"I can assure you your connection with those that vote me, and my attacks are not

related

"

Meh.

I

[Brandi]

Where did that *I* come from. >>; -sigh- Ok before I say anything else stupid I'm going to go do something else =P

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Don't like inHim counting my vote amongst the seemingly serious votes against the Fish, trying to appear to have more support than he does?

Fair enough. But why pose that as a question? I think you're asking approval of the rest of us before you lay down a vote, which happens to be scum-motivated protocol. veerus did do the same, but was not so egregious, as he is still a little more convincing of his intentions.

I like this from inH actually, and see exactly what he is getting at. DDD brought up reasons for voting inH, unvoted his previous vote, and then never voted inH. It was just a post calling him scummy. Seems like he should vote him with what was brought up here, not seemingly searching for approval to vote.

inHim cut my quote which has a way of distorting things in this case as it allows the actual order of things to be flipped. I unvoted as to note that I was not seriously voting for fishy, not to free up my vote to vote inHim. The question mark and tone of the post aren't a reflection of me searching for approval, but instead me presenting a potentially interesting point, but one I didn't have a strong opinion on. Besides, inHim's hypothesis that I was looking for approval to vote doesn't really stand up when you consider the fact that I haven't, ya know, voted.

[Fishythefish]

@Brandi:
It is rather absurd to say that your attack on me and my attack on you were not related, when the attack was pretty well entirely based on my attack.
Rereading the post where you said I looked "VERY bad", I really have no idea where that conclusion came from. The entirety of your argument is that I made points which had been made before (by me or others), and which you had responded to. I think your attack was almost certainly OMGUS fuelled.

Possible limited access notice

I have finals next week. This may or may not significantly affect my activity from Monday to Friday.

Off topic: actually, I'm English, so I've been able to drink legally for three years now

[Slicey]

My inactivity stems from my natural tendency towards D1 lurking and finals. Please bear with it for a bit more. I AM reading when I can.

This is me too, except instead of finals, I've been sick the last few days. When I said I misunderstood inHim's post, I meant the one I quoted. Right now, I have a neutral read on him. I'm keeping my now not random vote on Brandi, for calling people most likely town on P1. There may be other reasons, but I haven't read the last couple pages on account of me being sick.

[hp [leaves]]

Voting lurkers is just like forcing them to post. You can also gather reactions.

What's this?!?! Voting for other reasons? What a novel idea.

Hmm, I may finally have a thoughtful post to make in this game, but I'm going to go do other stuff for the day. I'll be back later.

I don't understand this post. Can someone explain?

[Brandi]

@Fishythefish, I'm talking about votes, not attacks. It isn't because you voted me. Also, it wasn't because it was *me* It was because of the way you were going about things, it seemed "fishy" ;P

[Brandi]

And definitely wasn't OMGUS, when someone attacks someone for stupid reasons, its scummy. You were doing it for stupid reasons, so you got a FOS. Just like inHIM was voting you for stupid, scummy reasons.

[Furry]

inHim cut my quote which has a way of distorting things in this case as it allows the actual order of things to be flipped. I unvoted as to note that I was not seriously voting for fishy, not to free up my vote to vote inHim. The question mark and tone of the post aren't a reflection of me searching for approval, but instead me presenting a potentially interesting point, but one I didn't have a strong opinion on.

Well one thing that I dont get is why anyone would never have a vote out once they even see a slight scum tell. There are just so many reasons to be voting as compared to not voting, if you really want me to list them I will go do that, but it should be fairly obvious. Point aside though.

There is really only two tones, pro and anti-town. I dont really think there is such thing as completely neutral tone unless you basically say "I have no opinion whatsoever". Saying "I think he votes on too little reasoning" is still in a negative light given that voting with little reason is viewed much more widely as a scum telll then anything else. Even if you view it as a null tell, bringing up something that is likely to be viewed as a scumtell is scummy if its not accompanied by a vote.

Besides, inHim's hypothesis that I was looking for approval to vote doesn't really stand up when you consider the fact that I haven't, ya know, voted.

When he is the only person you have seemed to lean to voting for, it kind of does. The phrasing of that statement really was made like you were looking to see if anyone would agree with the idea before you acted on it, even if that was not the intention

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

inHim cut my quote which has a way of distorting things in this case as it allows the actual order of things to be flipped. I unvoted as to note that I was not seriously voting for fishy, not to free up my vote to vote inHim. The question mark and tone of the post aren't a reflection of me searching for approval, but instead me presenting a potentially interesting point, but one I didn't have a strong opinion on.

Well one thing that I dont get is why anyone would never have a vote out once they even see a slight scum tell. There are just so many reasons to be voting as compared to not voting, if you really want me to list them I will go do that, but it should be fairly obvious. Point aside though.

It's not that I don't see the value of voting, but that you're downplaying the detriments of a trigger-happy voting style.

There is really only two tones, pro and anti-town. I dont really think there is such thing as completely neutral tone unless you basically say "I have no opinion whatsoever". Saying "I think he votes on too little reasoning" is still in a negative light given that voting with little reason is viewed much more widely as a scum telll then anything else. Even if you view it as a null tell, bringing up something that is likely to be viewed as a scumtell is scummy if its not accompanied by a vote.

Only two tones? Mafia must be so much easier in your binary world because from where I sit not only do you have to properly define words and actions along a full spectrum from completely anti-town to pro-town you also have to then take the analysis to another level and then determine the likely motivations and explanations for those behaviors.

Besides you said it yourself, "given that voting with little reason is viewed much more widely as a scum tell" and that's what you and inHim apparently expected of me; to vote based on a little reason I found. So, essentially you're faulting me for not behaving in a scummy fashion, peculiar behavior itself.

Besides, inHim's hypothesis that I was looking for approval to vote doesn't really stand up when you consider the fact that I haven't, ya know, voted.

When he is the only person you have seemed to lean to voting for, it kind of does. The phrasing of that statement really was made like you were looking to see if anyone would agree with the idea before you acted on it, even if that was not the intention

Mafia, the only game where ending your sentence in a question mark instead of a period somehow becomes a big issue.

[Gorrad]

V/LA until Sunday

[hp [leaves]]

Mod please prod Maturin

Switching back to

Unvote, Vote inHim

[Furry]

inHim cut my quote which has a way of distorting things in this case as it allows the actual order of things to be flipped. I unvoted as to note that I was not seriously voting for fishy, not to free up my vote to vote inHim. The question mark and tone of the post aren't a reflection of me searching for approval, but instead me presenting a potentially interesting point, but one I didn't have a strong opinion on.

Well one thing that I dont get is why anyone would never have a vote out once they even see a slight scum tell. There are just so many reasons to be voting as compared to not voting, if you really want me to list them I will go do that, but it should be fairly obvious. Point aside though.

It's not that I don't see the value of voting, but that you're downplaying the detriments of a trigger-happy voting style.

Show me where wagoning in the random stage is harmful. Seriously, its a different playstyle but it doesnt mean he is scum. Just try and learn to read it.

There is really only two tones, pro and anti-town. I dont really think there is such thing as completely neutral tone unless you basically say "I have no opinion whatsoever". Saying "I think he votes on too little reasoning" is still in a negative light given that voting with little reason is viewed much more widely as a scum telll then anything else. Even if you view it as a null tell, bringing up something that is likely to be viewed as a scumtell is scummy if its not accompanied by a vote.

Only two tones? Mafia must be so much easier in your binary world because from where I sit not only do you have to properly define words and actions along a full spectrum from completely anti-town to pro-town you also have to then take the analysis to another level and then determine the likely motivations and explanations for those behaviors.

Everything is either anti or pro town once you do all that. Hell if you really wanted me to I could of said "Everything starts out as something that is said. Now, you take the quote and apply your personal standards of if any tells that are in it are pro or anti town. From there you apply it to the situation at hand and draw conclusions. From there you are able to decide if it is a pro or anti town quote". In the end its still going to be a town or scum tell.

Besides you said it yourself, "given that voting with little reason is viewed much more widely as a scum tell" and that's what you and inHim apparently expected of me; to vote based on a little reason I found. So, essentially you're faulting me for not behaving in a scummy fashion, peculiar behavior itself.

I dont view it as a scum tell in the random stage first off. Also what are you saying here? Im missing it. If you see him as the scummiest, even if it is not a lynching tell, you still should vote. I usually am not happy with a lynch untill around page 15, but I vote before then.

[inHimshallibe]

There's not really a lot of meat in this game, even though I feel like we've covered a lot. Must be the effect of having to work so hard early on in the game. ;p

Quick notes I made on my reread:
Looking at all of Brandi's posts, she didn't seem to want to commit to anything until she latched on to me. Now she's mudslinging more than just me; Brian got caught up in some mud as well.

Gorrad and veerus had a weird dialogue, that sort of just... dropped. Gorrad comes out looking a little scummy because of it, as he asked for clarification, seemed to grasp what veerus said, but ultimately did nothing about it. Also, I hold on previous convictions re: Gorrad.

My opinions have not changed on DDD. They have on veerus.

I'm looking to wagon one (or more) of the above three.

Might as well try and knock this one out of the park.

vote: Brandi

[Fishythefish]

Just checking in really, not much to add. We need more opinions from more people. I'm fairly happy with my vote, but I'd like to see more from Slicey, as well the obvious Maturin.

hp has yet to offer much of an opinion on anything. Seems like active lurking.

[Brandi]

Now she's mudslinging more than just me; Brian got caught up in some mud as well.

You just love blatantly out-right lying, don't you? You are the only one slinging 'mud.' You seem to be doing this a lot actually. Whats wrong with latching on to you? You are incredibly scummy. I'm not going to just 'ignore' scum. But that's what you'd like, wouldn't you? None of your arguments hold any water - you just keep repeating the same BS over and over again.

[inHimshallibe]

Now she's mudslinging more than just me; Brian got caught up in some mud as well.

You just love blatantly out-right lying, don't you? You are the only one slinging 'mud.' You seem to be doing this a lot actually. Whats wrong with latching on to you? You are incredibly scummy. I'm not going to just 'ignore' scum. But that's what you'd like, wouldn't you? None of your arguments hold any water - you just keep repeating the same BS over and over again.

I didn't mean that latching on to me was scummy; I was just using it as a frame of reference. Also, I believe the way in which you just attacked my post is a subtle strawman.

You just love blatantly out-right lying, don't you? You are the only one slinging 'mud.'

Also, if you hadn't noticed, I had issues with inHim and Fishy BEFORE They voted me. I am the one being OMGUS'd.

Maybe you should read more Brian, you are on the list of those who have been lurking.

Emphasis mine.

Finally, posts 127-131 seem incredibly scummy to me because of my personal belief that scum are more worried about attaining "posting perfection" than town.

[hp [leaves]]

hp has yet to offer much of an opinion on anything. Seems like active lurking.

giving an opinion on a limited number of things=/=not giving much opinion

Accusing someone of something they haven't done is not a townish idea imo.

[veerus]

What's wrong with the exchange between Gorrad and myself? He wanted me to clarify my comment and when I did, the "weird dialogue" ended.

It looks to me that Inhim is getting desperate and trying to "wagon" anyone he can pile up on with Brandi being the easier choice in this situation.

[hp [leaves]]

He's also not responding to arguments that are against him.