Open 143: Jungle Republic (Game Over!) before 787

[Empking]

Kham: Who's scum?

Vote Count

Mixologist 2 - AA23, AshMC1984
AA23 2 - Empking, dejkha
AceMarksman 2 - Mixologist, Percy

[Percy]

Khamisa - Just because there's beef with me doesn't mean there is any scum evidence on me - -

everything people are saying is completely opinionated,

you can't prove

that I'm putting on a face of any sort

- - so there's no clearing, there's innocent until proven guilty (hence my vote isn't on Dej, it's on Mix)

Khamisa's post essentially slammed AA for using emotional appeals, calling it a scumtell.

However, AA's reply seems to imply that Khamisa's post said "I have evidence that AA is scum". Whatever the reason, he became quite defensive against Khamisa's attack (see bolded/italicized section).

Then says something about innocent until proven guilty, as if that explains his vote on Mix.

AA, do you have evidence to believe Mix is guilty? What kind of evidence makes you withdraw the presumption of innocence?

Why do you even have a presumption of innocence? I find it safer and better to assume everyone is more guilty than you, and work from there.

Percy - You're telling me what I should have done about Zwet Day1 - - I was doing the same thing Mix was doing - I was looking/working on a case I felt to be stronger in hopes that people woudl realize it as such, and move to the stronger wagon

Yet he didn't think to mention that he didn't like the weaker wagon, and thought it would lead to a mislynch. He thought it was better to keep that to himself. Encouraging the stupid people to think, without telling them they're stupid (until today, of course, when it's open season).

Alternatively, he attacked another (rather obvious) target, hoping the zwet lynch would proceed, so that he could attack the "townie-murdering" wagon the next day.

If scum know that a mislynch is going to happen (or at least a lynch on someone who isn't one of your buddies), then staying off the wagon and attacking it the next day sounds like a good strategy to defend a buddy, or to take the focus off yourself for another day as the righteous defender of the lynched.

However, AA's "YOU MURDERED HIM OH GOD WHYYYYYYY YOU'RE ALL SCUMMY ANIMALS ANIMALS I TELL YOU" attitude is too overstated.

Your entire thought on the matter is assuming that everyone on the wagon was constantly active and supporting -- that's not the case

Can you point to

even one sentence

that relies on that statement? Just one that would be destroyed in the presence of this fact?

My last post was far more focussed and specific to be casually brushed aside with a patronising handwave.

I posted 351, so you can't shut me up when I made the post.

lol I can shut you up when you tell me to provide you with proof that you said it - - it's actually MORE SAD that you typed it and FORGOT lol so thank you, I agree

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

Here's a summary of what just happened, for those playing at home.

dej

: You're not quoting, you're just throwing accusations around without proof.

AA

: I shut you up with 351.

dej

: Er, I posted 351. wtf?

AA

: You told me to provide you with proof

(where?)

that that you said it

(said what?!)

so I can shut you up

(what are you talking about?)

, you typed it and forgot it that makes it more sad so thank you.

dej

: ... wtf was that?!

AA, please explain.



I am satisfied with Mix's defence, and think there are better leads worth pursuing. Unless you have something new, I will remain unmoved on the issue.



At the moment, I'm thinking Ace is almost definitely scum. He lied, but it's worse than that - why did he lie?

His lies resulted in the death of the Seer. He (as scum) wasn't to know that Dust was the actual Seer, but if he was a werewolf, he would have a strong motive to have Dust's lynch proceed (freeing up their NK), and strong reason to believe Dust was telling the truth. Pushing his lynch along with meta that he thought was unverifiable (which turned out to be a little more verifiable than he had liked) would be pretty standard scumplay. Now, with no answers, he's flaked and/or lurking.

Ace has got to go. AA, you've got some explaining to do, *especially* if Ace flips werewolf.

[Percy]

Just checked Ace's activity. He posted on MS on Friday, but not in this game. He posted in one game three times, posted in another game twice, went back to the original game and posted twice more, then came back five hours later and posted again.

Ace, have you abandoned this game?

[AA23]

Percy - if you read - Dej wanted to know where he had even suggested in the slightest that he didn't care about Zwet or Emp and that he would lynch them no matter what - - he told me to prove he said that - 351 does - - - clear? lol-----------------------------------------


After the claim from Dust - -

Zwet had three votes on him:

Dej
Khamisa
Ash

Oh, forgot Ash should be added to that list.

hewitt, khamisa, zwet, Ace, Ash

At this point in time Dej was the only person not lurking for the most part - - why would I consider the wagon a threat if they're not active? I took their inactivity as "I have time to find scum = weaker votes come off lame wagons and onto (whay I hoped would be) a strong one" - - -

Zwet ASKED us if we wanted to CC in 108 (and NEVER pushed it, Dej told him why it would be bad and he let it lie)

You'll all notice if you check back as I did - that Mix didn't post anything TO or ABOUT Zwet in ANY way about ANYTHING - -

in post 248 he finally pipes up to him and asks him who's scum.
---------------------------------
Mix said he doesn't like hopping on a wagon early or first. There were three people on the wagon and two were lurkers and the other was Dej - the wagon wasn't a threat to me.

Not the evidence never grew on Zwet after people regarded his inquiry as pressing a subject (extremely weak) - - I had done my best to express my own opinions on CC and claiming, and it did nothing for him as a result (In essence, I technically had the same views and questions on a CC, and nobody voted ME, they just kept theirs on Zwet.

I'd like to point out that in addition to Dej and his prejudice, there is Ash on the wagon who also has a tag that suggests policy lynching Zwet - - I'm not a fan of players who take pride in how quick they get players killed over how many scum they catch - - - mind you I'm only making these connections today because my mind is drawn to it as per the lynch - - - D1, my mind was on my own cases and wagons, simple as that.

Now, three votes on the wagon, no evidence change, and Mix hasn't said a word about Zwet and only speaks of his own case.

Could a man not inquire to Zwet? Investigate? Share his thoughts on how he feels about the wagon for Ace he's trying to build versus the wagon on Zwet he is seemingly oblivious to?

I don't believe him when he says he had thoughts, feelings, and judgement between the two cases. I believe he was full steam ahead on his Ace case and only moved to Zwet because he was at L-1. Only moving to a player for that reason is opportunistic. It is EVIDENCE to me that the reason is because of the L-1 because there is ZERO evidence that Mix had any thought toward the Zwet PRIOR to this. That is my case.

And in retrospect, the Ace case was stronger, or at least worth taking a risk on.

Lynched someone for bringing up CC? I brought up a CC (granted, with better articulation)
Lynched someone with prejudice? (two players on the wagon who lynch Zwet without care and cross their fingers that he's scum) - - not to mention the rest of the wagon were lurkers who I wouldn't have thought to be AROUND for my questions and case making - - they were WAY too quiet.

1.WHAT I'm saying is that Mix is scum for being opportunistic (as we've heard me chatter on over and over) - - he's opportunistic for letting nothing but an L-1 lure his vote (which means you're hungry for Night/Death - very anti town) - - and I feel it was ONLY the L-1 because he made NO post and NO comment of ANY sort and BARELY conversed with Zwet or in his direction until the L-1 came.

Also, since you are voting Empking instead of Ace, do you believe Empking to more likely be scum than Ace?

Are we to assume that he is SELECTIVE in cases he compares, or just says he compares them on D2 when called scum? I think he's back tracking.

His vote isn't dirty for soley being the hammer - it's dirty because it came out of NOWEHERE.

2.My hostility to Dej = = Looking back is important for us to better see ahead. If we can't look at a wagon and think "that wasn't good, now that I think of it", then we're not swallowing our pride and admitting a mistake. I feel only scum would not admit such a wagon was dirty (or at least take the time to consider)

zwetschenwasser 7 - Khamisa, dejkha, AshMC1984, Hewitt, Dust, Empking, Mixologist

Khamisa, Ash, Hewitt - lurkers - 3

Ash voted. Yet coming closer to the lynch, before lurkin again, said

1. Zwet. If someone's meta is null, then it should be thrown out and just focus on the current game. Statements like ''If this was anyone but Zwet I would be voting right now" don't make sense to me if it's generally agreed that his meta is null.

or,

2.

Ace. I can't write that off as just a wee exaggeration.

Okay...so we still have a vote on Zwet? And we all agree Ace is scum?
Hewitt

That was the perfect answer for scum. Scum can send in a nightkill on anybody else other than Dust and then support lynching Dust because he wasn't nightkilled (a.k.a. "proving" he's scum). You totally walked right into that one zwets and I think I've totally caught scum here.

Vote: zwets

So he's made Zwet was lining up a lynch for tomorrow in his eyes?....that was scummy and deserved a vote?

Why? Lining up a lynch for tomorrow, giving scum a surefire way to get me lynched

We're sure? Lining someone up is scummy?

Unvote

Vote: Zwet

Mainly about his "we should lynch Dust if he survives the night."

Alright, if we say so!!!

I intend to see Ace lynched tomorrow. He is scum.

This was written whilst voting Zwet.

Ace lied, twice. Lynch all liars. It really is that simple.

Ace has my vote, but zwet is my solid #2. hewitt is at #3.

We had a number of people (percy being the only one off wagon in my quoting) that felt Ace was more likely scum

Even Dej said so, even Mix - - you all lynched someone for something you were doing?

And then

@Mod - Can we get prods on Ash and Khamisa?

With only 5 game relevant posts, I must say, Hewitt, you're unusually quiet.

there are agreeably lurkers on the wagon.

Mix says nothing about a wagon with lurkers. He says nothing about Zwet - and I do mean that PLEASE read, everyone - - look bad from page 5 until now- not a PEEP about Zwet!

Here is his post before the L-1 came

Scumtells are not going to fall into your lap. I'm asking for your top three more for information purposes. If one of your top three flips the opposite way, I would like to see how interaction/non-interaction occurred between the two of you.

Also before I forget:

@Mod- I will be V/LA the 23rd and 24th. Expect little to no content.

this was him still talking to me trying to get a list of three (which not even he supplied) and trying to sell the Ace wagon to me.

Then the votes came and suddenly

L-1? We all agree zwet is scummy? I'll do it.

unvote

vote zwet

Oops. Mix didn't tell us his thoughts, contribute in any way, or even ACKNOWLEDGE this wagon....shit...this is going to seem opportunistic...

The vote was at 7:47 am.......okay. Better take care of this...

At 12:23pm

Zwet isn't going to contribute anything more than non-sensical one liners. Rolefishing for a counter-claim is about as good a D1 scumtell as we're going to get. I intend to see Ace lynched tomorrow. He is scum. However, now we won't have to shift through crap one-liners in the process. This was a good lynch.

If you feel different, please feel free to express why. Otherwise, I have nothing else to say on the matter.

He mentions evidence that has existed from page 1-5. He spent page 5-14 pushing the Ace wagon and being oblivious to the Zwet case - not even ACKNOWLEDGING it. And now he says he hopped over for reasons that could have put him on the wagon way earlier? Where he wouldn't be first on or early on the wagon?

He says he doesn't like being first or early....he was second on the Ace wagon...

He gave evidence hours after the hammer as to why he hopped over with as I've pointed and proven NO signals but OPPORTUNITY - - and those reasons existed since page 5! He's contradicted himself - - it does NOT MAKE SENSE

Does anyone else see why I've been so aggressive? It blows my mind when people don't acknowledge things like this.

The evidence could have had him 4th on the wagon as of page 5 - - - he had NOTHING to do with it until he hammered on 14!!! He was pushing the Ace case, he said he doesn't like being early yet he was number 2 on it - - -the wagon was dirty with lurkers and prejudice and people voted Zwet for plannign a lynch yet everyone was planning the D2 lynch of ACE!

THAT is why I'm all built up.

I can swallow my pride and say I was involved with my own scumhunting to have tried and reached out to ignorant lurkers that were constantly in need of clarifying and re-reading - - I can swallow my pride and say that I didn't see the lynch coming so fast - - those last three votes were all on the same HALF of a page - - and I can swallow my pride and say that in the excitement of Mix's obvious scum move, I was shovingthe case down throats and regarded anyone against it as dirty.

Now can anyone else swallow the same pride and finally acknowledge our town mistake, and try to do what I'm trying to do - - which is LEARN from it - - I'm not focusing on it for no reason, these aren't things that I could have done D1.
------------------
THAT is my case - THAT is my reasoning.

And if you all re-read, I did indeed protest to the reasoning of the Zwet case - primarily after Hewitt's vote.

I will not have Percy, who has equally lurked, try to throw that in my face.

Now PLEASE read it over, I know it's a headache with much repetition in between, but I promise it should be nothing short of illuminating of nothing less than my REASONING.

Much appreciated.

[AA23]

So to put a short version (doesn't do it justice, but if you're in a rush)

I find the wagon dirty, looking back.

I protested to the reasoning of Zwet's wagon after Hewitt voted D1

I find Mix scum.

He opportunistically voted Zwet when he was at L-1.
He did not speak to Zwet, he did not acknowledge the wagon in a SINGLE POST from page 5 - - all the way to 14 where he hammered him out of nowhere.
D2 - Mix says he did this because he doesn't like being on wagons early - hypocrite, he was on the Ace wagon second.

there were three people on the Zwet wagon as of page 5 - - all the evidence mentioned by everyone including Mix existed on page 5 - - logic shows, Mix should have gone over - he would be on the wagon later than second, no?

He contradicted himself in his defense saying he doesn't like being on wagons early, yet being second on another. He only lynched to kill and go into night (one or the other depending on his allignment) and it was clearly opportunistic as the Zwet case was never mentioned in a single post by him until the kill.

[Percy]

Percy - if you read - Dej wanted to know where he had even suggested in the slightest that he didn't care about Zwet or Emp and that he would lynch them no matter what - - he told me to prove he said that - 351 does - - - clear?

No, it's not. He never said that he would lynch zwet or emp "no matter what". You also said that he said "there happened to be a vote on them as well", which I can't find anywhere.

So I think you're trying to say that dej had poor reasons to vote zwet, but you

still

brush aside dej's original statement, which I paraphrased as "You're not quoting, you're just throwing accusations around without proof." Saying "you're doing it too" does not address these accusations in the slightest.

Zwet ASKED us if we wanted to CC in 108 (and NEVER pushed it, Dej told him why it would be bad and he let it lie)

No.

*facepalm*

Counterclaims, anyone?

Unvote

I just said that people shouldn't counterclaim.

Unvote

Yes, they should counterclaim.

Why is a counterclaim bad? We kill guaranteed scum...

...and then he says:

I'm not pushing for a counter. It just seemed helpful.

...and continues:

It would have lynched confirmed scum.

...before abandoning the idea:

I realize that [it was a bad idea to ask for a CC] now.

...which you immediately excuse him for:

It's okay - - In the event of a counterclaim, there is always the question of countering.

You grossly misrepresent the chain of events.

You'll all notice if you check back as I did - that Mix didn't post anything TO or ABOUT Zwet in ANY way about ANYTHING - -

in post 248 he finally pipes up to him and asks him who's scum.

See, I actually checked.

Also

FOS zwet

for fishing.

Actually after re-reading both zwet and Ace in isolation I'm more interested in Ace

...

zwet might not be the brightest crayon in the box, but I doubt he would purposefully link himself to his scum buddy. I'm liking Ace more as Mafia

and zwet as Wolf

at this point.

...and a few other comments. So your statement is false. You didn't make any claims as to the content, so you can't turn around now and say that Mix's discussion of zwet was scummy (even though that would have been a more reasonable interpretation). Right here, you lied. Either you didn't read the thread (and lied about it), or you didn't represent what you had read faithfully (that is, lied about it).

Could a man not inquire to Zwet? Investigate? Share his thoughts on how he feels about the wagon for Ace he's trying to build versus the wagon on Zwet he is seemingly oblivious to?

Yes, he did. Also, hypocrisy - you still haven't addressed the fact that you yourself didn't mention the zwet lynch at all until after it happened, beyond talking about the CC in the early stages and NOTHING when it was looking like he was the lynch candidate.

His vote isn't dirty for soley being the hammer - it's dirty because it came out of NOWEHERE.

He surely did hammer without giving a proper explanation. Your interpretation that the L-1 lured him is probably right. However, he had established his suspicion of zwet, zwet was looking scummier and being uncooperative, Mix hammered. Scummy, but certainly not the smoking gun you're trying to make it. That is, I can see a townsperson hammering at that point. Sometimes, days are just finished, and the town needs more info to proceed. I can see Mix-town doing it just as much as I can see Mix-scum doing it.

I can swallow my pride and say that I didn't see the lynch coming so fast - - those last three votes were all on the same HALF of a page

...in the middle of which you posted, when zwet was on 5 votes and Ace on 2. Ignorance is not a good plea at this point.

I will not have Percy, who has equally lurked, try to throw that in my face.

Equal to hewitt? In what sense?



AA's attack has been overblown. He's lying and misrepresenting to make his case fit. He's guilty of most of the scumtells he's attributing to Mix, only more so. It's looking more and more scummy with every elaborative post.

FoS: AA

.

@Everyone: Do you find Mix scummy, as AA has suggested?



Ace is still the lynch today, however. He has posted in

four

other games since my last post. This is not flaking. This is scum with nothing else to say.

[AshMC1984]

there is Ash on the wagon who also has a tag that suggests policy lynching Zwet - - I'm not a fan of players who take pride in how quick they get players killed over how many scum they catch

Huh?

---------------------------------

Still happy with my vote on mix. I don't agree that his defense was satisfactory.

I would also endorse lynching Ace today, who has again posted elsewhere and not here. Given up? I don't think replacement would help in this case.

[Empking]

I don't find Mix overly scummy.

[hewitt]

I can't wait till you turn on hewitt/Emp lol

... I'm not in a "group" with dejkha and Empking so there's no reason for them to "turn" on me. I don't understand the point of this statement.

Case on Mix

He hopped on the Zwet wagon when the only thing to change was a number of votes - he chased a lynch to get his night actions started, he threw away his commitment to the Ace case and HYPOCRITICALLY and OPPORTUNISTICALLY

killed a towny

Such a stupid appeal to emotion, he wasn't the only one who "killed" a townie and I for one and most likely a couple others on the wagon did not know he was a townie. You're using this way too much to your advantage.

So here was my thought process on switching my vote.

zwet's playstyle is null. Let me say that up front. However, if you read him over, can't mention specifics as some of the games are currently ongoing, there is a very distinct difference between scumzwet and townzwet. I truly believed that zwet was scum. Now, I never mentioned that before my switch. That, if I am lynched today, will be my downfall. In my honest opinion, the zwet wagon had more backing to it than the Ace wagon. Meaning, that there was more reasoning to it. All I have on Ace, because he refuses to take part, is the fact that he lied. It's as simple as that. I believed that a zwet lynch would: 1) flip scum 2) be more informative. I was right on one of those two. If we continued with an Ace lynch, and he flipped town, we would have absolutely zero content to proceed off of it.

@AA - What is your opinion on Empking now? You're entire wagon you were building on him yesterday was due to the fact that he communicated to his "scumbuddy" Dust. Dust flipped Seer.

So you voted for meta over lying? I don't buy it, at all.

Kham: Who's scum?

You're in this effing game too? Do something so you're not so flipping forgettable.

I don't like Mixologist, I agree with the speculation that he was chasing a lynch and not scum which is so incredibly anti-town I can't believe it. Bloodthirsty scum? Yes, I think so.

Vote: Mixologist

[AA23]

Percy - you showed the quotes of Zwet and the CC issue -

It does NOT look like he pushed it at ALL - Emp's only defense against a CC was "I just said not to" - - Even

I

wouldn't accept that, it was still a valid idea to bring up, it's natural for a CC to be questions in the event of a counerclaim - - Zwet ASKS what makes it a bad idea, Dej gives him a better answer than "i told you so" - and he DROPS it

You're only proving how OTHER PEOPLE blew it out of scope - it wasn't scummy.

----------
And you're reaching on the Dej comment -

I am basically telling him that he is prejudice and would have lynched Zwet no matter what, and the quote I presented supports that - - that's final, anything else is simply semantics and reaching, you can't know my line of thought, and if you misinterpret what I've written, consider this to be a clear up, pal!

You'd have to be pretty ignorant to read that quote and not find him prejudice.

Also, I doubt you've played with me enough to know that

I don't care if Zwet and/or Emp are lynched for poor reasons. They could be lynched for

nothing

for all I care, I'll lynch them both on policy.

I just

happened

to have a reason this time.

Just happening to have a reason this time?
Doesn't care if they're lynched for poor reasons?
Lynched for NOTHING for all he cares?

You're the one with a pretty bloated case, Percy - - I think you're trying to compensate for the lurking, and you're doing it with empty hands.

And
1.I'd like the post numbers of your quotes where Mix apparently addresses the Zwet case beyond thos tidbits - -
2.I would like to read them in context
3.And I'd like to read what else was in the quotes.

4.Also - your opinion on the hypocrisy of him not moving to the wagon earlier.

Here's proof that you're logic is near sighted at this time:

You completely ignored the fact that Mix didn't jump over earlier -- that he preferred his Ace case -- that he felt evidence that existed on page 5 was only worth believing as "the best we'll get for D1" until page 14!! after he spent the entire time hunting for the Ace lynch

He says he felt Zwet was the best lynch for D1 based on early as shit evidence, but didn't want to hop on the wagon first and early WHILE he was SECOND on his own wagon thus contradicting himself? And it took pg5-14 for him to show actual interest and vote? And it was only sparked by an L-1

That's opportunity, Percy.

While I appreciate you taking interest in this game and not lurking - I'm not sure how I feel about you ignoring things I pull up to be considered/evidence in exchange for things you can try to twist into incriminating me. - (for the record that constitutes lynch hunting - why don't you be a good little boy and wait to see if I do something scummy, like lynch opportunistically, lurk, etc)

[AceMarksman]

I see that most of the players here find me scum, so why aren't they voting me? I don't like that at all. Why not?

[hewitt]

I see that most of the players here find me scum, so why aren't they voting me? I don't like that at all. Why not?

I don't like this post, it's a blatant attempt to appear to be pro-town.

[AA23]

Ace - you are suspect one for a lot of people based on a suspicious act.

Mix is someone I'm voting based on a scummy act.

I don't find you a priority to Mix in light of his behavior.

[AA23]

dej: Mind you

I've only seen him in one game as scum

, but he started it the same way.

Contradiction anyone?

zwet might not be the brightest crayon in the box, but I doubt he would purposefully link himself to his scum buddy. I'm liking Ace more as Mafia and zwet as Wolf at this point.

unvote

vote AceMarksman

FOS hewitt

I checked the conent of both of those posts you gave me.

The second one is directed to suspicions toward Ace - and primarily at that.

And the first is a response the was general and not persued or further expressed.

Page 5-14, Percy - - find me the evidence where Mix had a single care for that wagon.

He listed why he hammered, and every reason and line of thought existed on pg.5 - - why not investigate? why not switch over early? - - answer: he wasn't at L-1

Mix spent 5-14 pushing the Ace wagon. Prove otherwise or stop reaching.

[Thesp]

I am replacing gorckat. I will wait to post substantively until this is confirmed in-thread by ThAdmiral. Thanks.

[Mixologist]

Ace is scum so bad it hurts. He is blatantly ignoring this game. Why? There is -zero- pressure on him to contribute. As long as he isn't under any pressure to contribute, he will continue to actively lurk.

Look back at the end of D1. Ace, again, was under -zero- pressure as everyone was focusing in on zwet. Percy and I, again, were the only ones voting him.

@AA- The people you are accusing me of dirtly hoping behind, Ash and hewitt, are now shamelessly hoping on behind you. What do you make of that? Also, re-reading you AA, it should said that speaking in absolutes like you are concerning me actually implicate you. Saying that someone is 100% scum when you are not an investigative role implies that you have knowledge that the rest of us don't. Saying that implies that you are scum. Are you scum?

Also...

Ace - you are suspect one for a lot of people based on a suspicious act.

..misrepping someone -is- a scummy act, not a suspicious act. Regarding Ace, you go from saying...

Ace lies about a meta to put a vote down and gets caught/suspected of it later - - this could make him a villain and the reasons for lying suggest Dust being a villain of the opposite variety to him.

...to saying...

I based the first part of what you quoted me on from you and Dej saying he lied - - in between that and me realizing it was semantics, I read back to his statement - - it's purely hyperbole hat can be exploited as a scumtell - I'm not lynching someone for that.

...to saying...

FoS:Ace
For using hyperbole to strengthen a vote against Dust and opportunistically distancing yourself to take it off.

...to

finally

saying...

Why go for a guy that believed something, instead of the person who was caught in a LIE...

...so, please pick a side on this issue.

@dej/Emp- More pressure on Ace, when he flips scum we can worry about AA tomorrow.

@hewitt- You don't even mention Ace and the fact that he lied. Why did you vote zwet over Ace?

[AA23]

unfortunately, Mix -

you're preaching to the converted.

How do you have the nerve to tell me to pick a side on the issue when you yourself picked your side D1 (between Zwet and Ace, you picked Ace and went FULL STEAM AHEAD) - to switching on a whim?

I did NOT say Ace is not scum, I am expressing why YOU are a priority to him.

Ace is most certainly someone I'm interested to investigate - - remember there are

5

villains - - not one.

Howevery - - if Ace flips villain (which is a good chance) you will use that as a shield to defend yourself, which is why it's important that you flip villain before he does.

There are 5 people to investigate and lynch - - you're priority one for me because I find you most scummy- Ace is priority number two because I find him most suspicious -

You're splitting hairs over whether I go from thinking Ace is scummy to just suspicious -- any evidence or questionable things on him aren't even in the same league as your scummy act with Zwet, Mix - you're not going to change my vote.

[AA23]

Mix-

In addition to your weak rebuttle an hypocrisy about picking sides (you being mr. out of the blue "flip flopper")

Can you defend ANY of the points against you?

Lets start with a simple one.

All the evidence that put you on the Zwet wagon for the hammer existed on page 5.

You spent 5-14 trying to lynch Ace, and didn't investigate Zwet at ALL.

You said you didn't switch over because you don't like starting a wagon, or being early on one.

On page 5--- where all the evidence that "convinced" you already existed, there was 3 people on Zwet's wagon.

You were the second person on Ace's.

This is hypocrisy. Please explain.

[Khamisa]

Kham: Who's scum?

AA23's weird defense without provoking has me suspicious. I wasn't questioning how his playstyle made him bad. I was just questioning his playstyle.

However, if you actually read it. AA23's case on Mix isn't all that bad. He did change his vote without instigation or explanation.

Ace's case is also good. Especially with the new info that he's practically ignoring this game.

AA23's case on dejkha, however, is bad, IMO.

In other news-Welcome, Thesp.

[Mixologist]

you're preaching to the converted.

I hardly see conversion.

How do you have the nerve to tell me to pick a side on the issue when you yourself picked your side D1 (between Zwet and Ace, you picked Ace and went FULL STEAM AHEAD) - to switching on a whim?

More appeal to emotion noted. Your posts are laden with them.

You went from saying Ace lied, to saying you weren't going to lynch someone for semantics and hyperbole, to a weak fos, to saying he lied. Yes. I am telling you to pick a side, because you have demonstrated that you will choose whichever is more suitable for yourself at the moment.

Please respond to the other statements I made.

[Mixologist]

You said you didn't switch over because you don't like starting a wagon, or being early on one.

Nice attempt to misrep what I said. I prefer starting wagon, or being on them late. That does not mean that if I find someone uber scum I'm not going to jump on them.

I didn't get on the zwet wagon earlier because Ace was, and still is, flying under the radar.

I switched my vote, as I have stated before which you seem to have overlooked, that I believed that zwet would flip scum and prove more informative. There are several people that totally ignored my comments that I made about Ace and attached themselves onto the zwet wagon. After Ace is lynched today, I plan on laying each of them out nicely.

[AA23]

I don't like being on a wagon early, unless I am the one starting it.

Liar - - you didn't start the Ace wagon, you followed Percy - - and he shared the same reason, the lie.
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Appeal to emotion? I'm incredulous to you - - do you even know what appealing to emotion IS? lol

Now, without mixing yourself up mix....

You didn't start the Zwet wagon OR the Ace wagon.

You were on the Ace wagon second, and the Zwet wagon LAST

You could have (with the evidence present) been on Zwet on page 5

You chose to ignore Zwet and persue Ace from 5-14

You hammered Zwet out of the blue.

Why? Why so early? Why did you lie about only being on wagons if you start them and not liking to be on them early when you were on a wagon second and could have been on Zwet from page 5 as the 4th person (which isn't early, is it?)

Explain yourself...

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Khamisa - there is no case on Dej from me - to clarify

[dejkha]

Percy - if you read - Dej wanted to know where he had even suggested in the slightest that he didn't care about Zwet or Emp and

that he would lynch them no matter what

- - he told me to prove he said that - 351 does - - - clear? lol-----------------------------------------

For the record I never said that in this game (I might've said it in others). I said I would lynch them for nothing. It's not the same thing.

@dej/Emp- More pressure on Ace, when he flips scum we can worry about AA tomorrow.

Fine with me. As said earlier, I think they're both scum. And given Ace recent nothingness post...

Unvote Vote: Ace

[AA23]

Dej - I'm not saying Ace is innocent, but his flipping villain WILL be a card for Mix to play - - what makes this a bad thing is Mix being a villain himself

In the post above your last from me to him - - you see no scum characteristics from him?

Once again - I have no case on you, but your refusal to be open minded to things makes me uneasy - if I'm missing something, help me out, but this case is far from opinionated.

Mix has lied, been hypocritical, opportunistic, and is failing to justify his actions

What say you?

[AA23]

Lied

about when he votes

opportunistically

hammered Zwet out of the blue and with no sign of investigation or interest in the case (over Ace's at the very least)

hypocritically

states who he intends to see lynched in future days (Ace D2, me D3) yet has no problem letting that be a point on Zwet's wagon when he said Dust would be lynched if he survived as a claimed seer

He's failing to defend himself - I request you please read the case