Mafia 93 - A Roccisi Summer - Over!

[Axelrod]

axel, i see no proof that he's lying. 1shot jailer, doc and) is a perfectly plausible role, and completely understandable as a role that someone would think to call jack of all trades.

It's just that if he's being completely truthful, then - in addition to being an idiot for claiming in his second post - he's

also

made numerous mistakes when claiming his "abilites." We're talking pretty bad mistakes too - like saying he could Doc protect himself, and that the only ability he didn't have from the "meta" in the rules posts was vig.

Add to that his weak justifications - I did it to "draw" the Mafia kill. I did it because I

knew

that people would look at my "meta" (oh, really?) and people who had played with me before would think I was stupid and I could get good reads on them.

Top it off with his incredibly retarded "how can I be scum when I win with the town!" "Why would you lynch someone you know is town," remarks, and you have a trifecta of complete and utter worthlessness.

I just don't get how you are defending this guy.

[roflcopter]

axel, all of his mistakes regarding his shifting claim make sense as legitimate misunderstandings based on inexperience. they all seem sincere.

as for why i'm defending him, its because i think he is town and don't want a mislynch. simple as that. why are you so against me thinking he is town?

[Mixologist]

Quick re-read, quick post to answer question directed at me.

@charter - Fence sitting probably wasn't the best of wording. Reading that over it appeared to be a convenience factor to me. Meaning, that you want Mufasa lynched, however if OGB got close to being lynched you would swing your vote that way. Mind you, I'm not implying that this is your thought, but that is the way it read to me.

Will post thoughts before I go to sleep tonight. Will be

V/LA this weekend

due to a wedding.

[TDC]

Vote Count

OozingGolfBall (6): roflcopter, SpyreX, ekiM, Mixologist, alvinz95, iamausername
Seraphim (3): Korts, Mufasa, inHimshallibe
inHimshallibe (3): X, skitzer, Seraphim
Mufasa (2): charter, OozingGolfBall
Starbuck (2): populartajo, ThAdmiral
alvinz95 (1): Caboose
Korts (1): HowardRoark

Not Voting (4): darkdude, Axelrod, tubby216, Starbuck

12 to lynch.

[Starbuck]

@charter: Why am I your second choice?

I am right with you about Mufasa and OGB. I couldn't give a damn if either one was lynched/vigged/killed, so we could continue on without their distractions (and now non play).

I jumped off for now because of what I stated earlier. It seems like right now it doesn't matter what type of action I take because it will all be labeled scum, even though I'm NOT.


This statement you made is what I have been trying to say all along (you just did it better):

We aren't lynching Mufasa because he has the best chance of being scum. We're lynching him because he is definately lying, it will be easy to catch scum using his lynch, he displays no interest in scumhunting, and I see him as a huge detriment to town. The fact that he could be scum (a fair chance) is just gravy.

@ThAdmiral & populartajo: Why mudsling? You were going for my throat. I can't use a little bit of sarcasm? I guess I need to start using my <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags.

So you are for voting off unhelpful people even if they are town? I can sort of understand that, especially on day one.
Can you explain what you mean with "riling up all of us town"?

I would rather mislynch someone who we know is just going to keep distracting us from finding Mafia rather than take a shot in the dark (at least on day 1) until we have some confirmations.



@Axelrod: How can you not hit nerves in a game like this? And how did myself and Seraphim do so?

I don't understand why some think Mufasa is scum but not OGB or vice versa. Anyone care to explain?

I have been suspicious of both. As I said up farther in this post, neither is being very helpful and they are detracting from our scum hunt.

[ThAdmiral]

I don't understand why some think Mufasa is scum but not OGB or vice versa. Anyone care to explain?

Why do they both need to be the same alignment?

[TDC]

Prodding Mufasa, OozingGolfBall and tubby216.

[skitzer]

You think he is scum for that? Anything else?

he's mv bigest suspect. This vote is at least better than Mufasa. I've decided that he can be dealt with later.

axel, i see no proof that he's lying. 1shot jailer, doc and) is a perfectly plausible role, and completely understandable as a role that someone would think to call jack of all trades.

But the problem with Mufasa's claim is how he claimed it. he claimed under no pressure, and clearly didn't have a good hold of what his role actulaly was, so he ended up tweaking it a few times. yes, the

final

role he has finally decided on is plausible, but the method he took to get there isn't really truthful.

(Axelrod explained this but I'm leaving it ehre anyway)

[inHimshallibe]

But the problem with Mufasa's claim is how he claimed it. he claimed under no pressure,

After reviewing the thread, I think this is just a case of bad play.

and clearly didn't have a good hold of what his role actulaly was,

Again, this is most likely just bad play.

so he ended up tweaking it a few times. yes, the

final

role he has finally decided on is plausible,

Your wording here isn't fair, as "decided on" implies we already know he is scum who lied about his role. IE, this is spin.

but the method he took to get there isn't really truthful.

"isn't really?" You don't sound convinced, and more like you're starting to disbelieve your own case.

2 FOS in a row warrant a vote.

unvote
vote: skitzer

[SpyreX]

But the problem with Mufasa's claim is how he claimed it. he claimed under no pressure, and clearly didn't have a good hold of what his role actulaly was, so he ended up tweaking it a few times. yes, the final role he has finally decided on is plausible, but the method he took to get there isn't really truthful.

And every step of the way was stupider and stupider. True. That doesn't make it less truthful - in fact, the sheer volume of stupid (not to be confused with scummy) lends to bad town versus bad scum.

Not that it changes the fact a bullet would do his cortex wonders in this game.

[Korts]

Damn I need to post here. Will do soon.

[tubby216]

damn i am sorry i cannot get handle on this game hopefully soon,,

prolly monday for a real post

[roflcopter]

hey everyone, lets take a look at a meta example of a stupid town player making a day one power role claim out of the blue: this post from zwetschenwasser in medieval mafia. and in short order the

entire scum team

was on his wagon because they thought they could score a power role mislynch due to zwets' stupid play.

i mention this because i see parallels between that zwets wagon and this mufasa wagon

[charter]

Starbuck, you are incredibly scummy. I explained why in my last post, how you just jumped off Mufasa, though it seems you're still suspicious of him. Also your response to legitimate questions was very scummy. I'm also not seeing you scumhunting or where your questioning is going.

inHim has cemented his position of scumbag with his latest post. Bad play comes from scum too. His skitzer vote is very weak.

[inHimshallibe]

Bad play comes from scum too.

Yeah, but it doesn't equal scum play, as skitzer was so very much implying. Given my previous thoughts on the Mufasa matter, I thought it was inherently clear that I was making the point of "bad town play." I also think you've got a bit of tunnelvision involving Mufasa, which may be cluttering your views on other players.

His skitzer vote is very weak.

I don't think anything regarding Seraphim is going to move on this Day, and I don't like the OGB wagon - blown way out of proportion, in my opinion.

[tubby216]

well i do not see any reason not to vote for ogm so

vote: ogm

step it up or get hung.

[inHimshallibe]

well i do not see any reason not to vote for ogm so

vote: ogm

step it up or get hung.

Dammit, I meant to add:

IF

OGB continues to lurk, I will gladly push this wagon.

[roflcopter]

this is a memo to all of the people who are refusing to see the light of day and vote for ogb

---

Hi guys. I am a alt. Feel free to start the guessing game.

ogb's first post. there have been multiple explanations of why this was at least marginally scummy, and worth an early wagon.

and here follow all direct and indirect responses to that post by ogb between when it was made and the next time he posted:

Hi guys. I am a alt. Feel free to start the guessing game.

unvote, vote OGB

No one cares. You're only trying to fire up wild goose chases instead of hunt scum or take a stance on anything in the RVS.

Hi guys. I am a alt. Feel free to start the guessing game.

Attention whore alert.

vote: OGB

Hi guys. I am a alt. Feel free to start the guessing game.

unvote, vote OGB

No one cares. You're only trying to fire up wild goose chases instead of hunt scum or take a stance on anything in the RVS.

i agree. that post alone is enough grounds to lynch.

unvote, vote: oozinggolfball

Vote: OGB

for not liking Jews.

Hi guys. I am a alt. Feel free to start the guessing game

Hmmm. This post sucks. Congrats. You fail the random voting stage.

Unvote
Vote: OGB

so that is six posts that in some way deal with ogb himself or with ogb's first post, including 1) charter's very straightforward explanation for why he deserved to be voted, in the english language, 2) ekim's very straightforward criticism of "attention whore alert" and 3) a pile of votes and general agreement with the point raised by charter. how does ogb respond? with this:

Unvote; Vote: Mixologist

Why are people voting me?

placing a vote with no explanation whatsoever, and playing stupid. it has been a total of 10 posts since the last time he posted, and he has demonstrated that he speaks the english language, so there is

absolutely no excuse

to pretend he doesn't understand why he has received votes rather than respond to any or all of the points raised against him.

moving on again, from this post until his next contribution we get the following posts directed to or relating to ogb:

Unvote; Vote: Mixologist

Why are people voting me?

Because you refused to take a stance during the random voting stage and claimed to be an alt instead. It's clear you're an alt(probably a zwet alt) even without the claim.

Why are people voting me?

that has already been made abundantly clear, playing stupid will get you nowhere

who the account is an alt of is not the issue, it doesn't even matter. ogb tried to distract from the actual game of mafia by making this into a game of guess who. scummy enough to lynch right now.

who the account is an alt of is not the issue, it doesn't even matter. ogb tried to distract from the actual game of mafia by making this into a game of guess who. scummy enough to lynch right now.

You're blowing this way out of proportion, rofl.

If it requires a game of guess who to figure out who is controlling the OGB account, then you've either never heard of DGB or you need help.

everyone should note that caboose is clearly playing defense for ogb with this post

who the account is an alt of is not the issue, it doesn't even matter. ogb tried to distract from the actual game of mafia by making this into a game of guess who. scummy enough to lynch right now.

You're blowing this way out of proportion, rofl.

If it requires a game of guess who to figure out who is controlling the OGB account, then you've either never heard of DGB or you need help.

i've had plenty of experience with dgb, and ogb is not dgb.

you're only helping make this about who ogb is instead of who is mafia.

caboose, why exactly do you think i am blowing this out of proportion? what pro town motivation do you see for asking the players to guess who is controlling an alt account?

at this point two players (seraphim and caboose) have diverted energy away from the main focus of the game to actually try and figure out who ogb's main is and one player (caboose) has actively attempted to deflect negative attention away from ogb, and once again there is an abundance of reasoning for what makes ogb scummy written out in plain english over the course of a short series of posts. and how does ogb respond to all of this?

I'm not a zwet alt.

...

really? really? and people still don't want to lynch him? people are still willing to

defend him

?

oh, but there's more! continuing, here's another series of posts about ogb.

I'm not a zwet alt.

you're also not doing anything that remotely resembles scumhunting.

is it to early to call active lurking?

Oh. OGB isn't DGB?

I failed.

Never mind. Off that subject. rofl was right.

caboose acquiesces and slinks off into the shadows because even he has realized that ogb is becoming indefensible. too late caboose, you've already made it obvious you are scum with ogb, your time will come soon.

woof. i don't like korts' post 49. mostly the fact that he's deflating the ogb wagon by removing himself from it.

I have found a better one. Seraphim presenting others' points as his own, labelling a completely normal reaction backtracking, and having general scummy tone is better than wanting players to identity-guess.

i can't agree that there's any better place to vote until ogb actually starts participating. the fact that he's obviously following along enough to post useless crap here, and simultaneously has been posting in other threads, but can't seem to bring himself to actually be anything but a useless sack is impeding my ability to vote for anyone but him.

In the 14 minutes between this post of yours and the previous one OGB didn't post at all. Do you expect him to post every five minutes, and if not, what was the purpose of this comment?

korts, please refer to everything i've written so far and take it as a complete refutation of your ridiculous defense of ogb based on the fact that it had only been 14 minutes. as you can see, what happened during those 14 minutes is of much more importance than the mere length of time. i'm omitting the rest of the back and forth between korts and i on the subject for the sake of saving space. korts' aggressive ogb defense based on this faulty premise makes him number two in the "ogb's scumpartners" logbook.

rofl, if OGB consistently ignores the game, he is scummy. If he ignores it over the span of three posts, I don't see where he is all that damaging to town.

No, he is spending his posts ACTIVELY trying to derail the town. The quantity of his posts is irrelevant. The quality of them is incredibly scummy.

ok, thats actually quite enough of that to make my point. now i'll move on to ogb's later (non) contributions.

I'd love to hear some reasons why I'm scum besides you pile of wifom that is your misrep of my first post.

get your head out of the wiki, you obviously don't understand anything you found in there. please explain why what i said was either wifom or a misrep. you know what, scratch that, don't even bother because its obviously an impossible task, just shut up and get lynched.

You may be the more retarded than me, wow you level of comprehension in that last statement was next to none. Seriously look at your pm and look at the examples they don't state much of an ability.

Nice ad hom.

Unvote; Vote: Mufasa

Too much jumpiness in your posts.

once again proving you have no real grasp of any of the fancy terminology you found in the wiki - what mufasa said was not an ad hom fallacy because mufasa was not using the personal insults as the basis for refuting an argument or placing a vote.

and thats it. thats all we've gotten from the esteemed ogb, who so many people have demanded be given enough time to really start participating before we crucify him for daring us to guess who he's an alt of. well, he's had plenty of time to participate, and his participation has ALL BEEN SCUMMY. it is time to lynch this joker.

[X]

Except, roflcopter, his meta shows that he's done similarly as town. And it doesn't take long to check, I promise.

IHSIB is definitely reading scum to me. He's barely explaining himself, unclear, and sometimes contradictory. He also seems to want to end the Day.

His first post:

vote: Caboose

I'll be back maybe tomorrow, but I'm checking in and putting my vote on the most likely scum that I see. Mostly the doublespeak on voting OGB and reactions to Mufasa is my reasoning.

When he later clarifies "doublespeak," he says:

Doublespeak, to clarify, would be Caboose's alvinz spiel, which I more or less see as fencesitting (one of my favorite words in my mafia vernacular).

Caboose never gave a spiel, so he's referring to something non-existent as his definition.

rofl: I dunno, rofl. You haven't seen Mufasa's past play. I've certainly been weighing whether or not he's town in my head.

...

Unvote

Don't like the speed of this wagon at all. Mufasa is definitely still my #1 suspect but pressuring him with votes isn't going to do any good.

unvote
vote: Seraphim

What is there to pressure Mufasa about anyway? I don't like how you've backed off his lynch train.

This is what I call doublespeak - saying there's nothing to pressure Player A about, and not liking that Player B stopped pressuring Player A.

Since a consolidation has been requested, and I very much like the idea, I'll go ahead and

unvote
vote: OGB

In other news, HowardRoark and Korts are probably the same faction.

1. Goes along with the idea of only voting for voteleaders to end Day earlier.
2. Gives a statement without supporting it.

Shameless bandwagoning.

unvote
vote: Mufasa

Bring 'em out, bring 'em out.

Shameless bandwagoning is a scumtell in my book, outside of RVS (or deadline, but that's actually reluctant bandwagoning).

Hmmm, I actually don't like my vote now.

Given the high modularity (holy hell, that's a word?) of the game, I'm going to attribute Mufasa's role as a credit to TDC's innovation as a mod.

I'm normally pretty cut-and-dry on my LAL policy, but I'm thinking it's pretty obvious Mufasa is town. To those of you who have said this before, sorry good buddies, I'm a few pages behind on the times.

I agree with Korts that Mufasa is helpful to the town alive rather than dead, but I'm not so keen on pushing votes on charter or ekiM, who I think are just headstrong town at the moment.

Looking back at some of the wagon patterns on Mufasa, I'm returning to my Seraphim vote.

unvote
vote: Seraphim

I believe that whether Mufasa is town or not, he is helpful to the scum while alive.

My votes on voteleaders are most of the time for the sake of voting on voteleaders.

He wants to end the day soon and/or only joins cases that others have elaborated for him.

Shameless bandwagoning.

unvote
vote: Mufasa

Bring 'em out, bring 'em out.

I'm a few pages behind on the times.

You're behind, yet willing to "shamelessly bandwagon"?

Unvote, vote inHimshallibe

You've taken the second quote out of context. Also, it pretty obviously doesn't mean what you're implying.

"behind on the times" reads as "late to the party"

FOS

, for what good those do.

I don't understand this post.

But the problem with Mufasa's claim is how he claimed it. he claimed under no pressure,

After reviewing the thread, I think this is just a case of bad play.

and clearly didn't have a good hold of what his role actulaly was,

Again, this is most likely just bad play.

No elaboration whatsoever.

[Caboose]

Clearly I said OGB was scumtarded.

So has everyone else. What are your thoughts on the rest of the game outside of those three?

I would like alvinz to answer this.

[Mufasa]

I have given you guys every piece of truthful information that my role has and it certainly should be enough to easily to tell my allignment to the town.

I am finding things are going pretty slow and I believe if OGB is town then we will have to check around tm.

[X]

I am finding things are going pretty slow and I believe if OGB is town then we will have to check around tm.

Do you seriously think that we should end D1 now?

[Mufasa]

I believe we have gotten a good loaf of information out of it. We can always not have enough information but I think e have enough to make some good hacks

[charter]

Right now I'm going along the lines of inHimshallibe/Starbuck/OGB/Caboose/(maybe alvinz/Howard) as the scumteam.
Starbuck and OGB are assuridly scum together, and Caboose looks mighty fishy with them both as well. Starbuck seemed eager to vote for Mufasa but barely mentioned OGB. She is probably the only to not say something about OGB (instead parroting what others have said).
inHim I'm actually not as sure about based on his haphazard voting which seems to be for whoever is under the most suspicion at the time (excluding his most recent skitzer vote, very puzzling).
OGB is scummy for reasons previously mentioned as well for adding zero to this game.
Caboose has an unnatural fixation on alvinz. alvinz has also yet to add something new to the game.

unvote, vote OGB

I swear... If Mufasa is alive tomorrow, bad things will happen...

Also, I'm pretty happy with who is voting for OGB and Starbuck right now. Do those voting them think they are scum together? or just the one that you're voting for? The reason I'm voting OGB over Starbuck is because he has more votes right now.

Going back over Howard's posts as well, he gets bumped into the OGB/Starbuck pairing. He hasn't mentioned either of them once (and pretty sure they haven't mentioned him either).

[Starbuck]

It seems like no matter what you post, you are automatically scum and there's nothing you can do about it. I'm definitely nobody's scum buddy.


I said before I really don't care if the vote goes to OGB or goes to Mufasa. Honestly, I don't think they are contributing (at least in a helpful way) and I will go whichever way the town prefers.

Vote: OGB