Newbie 785 - Game Over

[Cyren]

I'm really sorry, I'll be able to respond tonight to you guys.

I just want to say I'm a girl and its Cyren, not Cyrus lol.

Also want to ask what PBPA is.

See you guys in a few hours

[qwints]

A PBPA is a post by post analysis. Basically, you go through the game and comment on all of someone's posts. The point of this is to find trends in the behavior and build a case against against them.

Now, for me to catch up...

[qwints]

Ok, first on the question of my defending myself against accusations - I honestly don't see anything I haven't responded to at some point; Let me know if you want me to and I will. Most of the points on my seem to be inactivity, I wrote something like 85 pages last week on finals and end of term papers. Now I'm only working 40 hours a week, so I should have time to post

As for other cases - I really don't buy corp's case against Shotty; talking about how to be pro-town is not scummy, especially in a newbie game.

I really like Cyren's approach to the game so far. I haden't picked up on what was wrong with his WIFOM point on phily. Keep it up.

Lastly,

unvote

Phily's still kind of crazy, but it's gonna take time to filter the weirdness out to figure out if he's towny or scummy.

[Papa Zito]

First of all, I misread the vote count. Turns out I didn't have a vote on anybody. What a way to start.

Anyway, here are my thoughts on the current crew. These are always fun.

falkomagno

- Hasn't done any scumhunting thus far. His early attempt to pressure someone through an FoS was weird. I'm cool with all the stuff about not liking the RVS since I feel kinda the same way. I'd like to see some more content. Neutral read.

GadgetArcrep

- Amazing lack of content for the number of posts. Scumhunting has been limited to chiming in on someone else's observations. Almost classic active lurker. Scummyish vibe.

Giskard

- Good poster. He(?)'s posting original observations and questioning things. Good pro-town vibe.

PhilyEc

- Philey has been dishing it out and taking it. There's not a whole lot for me to add here except for one observation. Since he brought up the meta defense - Phily was in my prior game and was lynched Day 1 mainly for lurking. He was vanilla townie in that game. I'm unsure on him.

qwints

- Good scumhunting, good advice. I wish he had more posts. Solidly pro-town.

Shotty to the Body

- No content from Shotty. He keeps asking for people to post cases and observations while skating by without posting his own. Only attack was on a lurker. Shotty's my #1 suspect thus far.

The Corporation

- Great scumhunting. I like people who are actually paying attention and posting cases. Solidly pro-town.

Cyren (replaced Toledo88)

- Toledo was off to a good start and Cyren has continued that trend with her wall of text. Solidly pro-town


So, in conclusion:

Pro Town

qwints
The Corporation
Cyren

Slightly Town

Giskard

Neutral

falkomango
PhilyEc

Slightly Scummy

GadgetArcrep

Scummy

Shotty to the Body

[The Corporation]

Ok, first on the question of my defending myself against accusations - I honestly don't see anything I haven't responded to at some point; Let me know if you want me to and I will. Most of the points on my seem to be inactivity, I wrote something like 85 pages last week on finals and end of term papers. Now I'm only working 40 hours a week, so I should have time to post

As for other cases - I really don't buy corp's case against Shotty; talking about how to be pro-town is not scummy, especially in a newbie game.

I really like Cyren's approach to the game so far. I haden't picked up on what was wrong with his WIFOM point on phily. Keep it up.

Lastly,

unvote

Phily's still kind of crazy, but it's gonna take time to filter the weirdness out to figure out if he's towny or scummy.

It's not about being pro-town IMO. It's about, for lack of a better term, all fluff and no substance. There is a lot of pro-town talk, but very little that actually drives at finding scum. The vote is for lack of probing posts over a long series of posts - the pro-town cheerleading is just something to look through.

[falkomagno]

Well, I think that we have something now to start a real pressure in someone....My vote was for qwirt, but Now I noticed that people who has seen later post, can see things that maybe the people who has been from the very beginning hasn't noticed of.

Apparently, the main suspects, by now are:

Gadget and shotty ...

but I can not see so much scumminess from they...I'll reread both of them, and hopefully build a case

[PhilyEc]

PhilyEc - Philey has been dishing it out and taking it. There's not a whole lot for me to add here except for one observation. Since he brought up the meta defense - Phily was in my prior game and was lynched Day 1 mainly for lurking. He was vanilla townie in that game. I'm unsure on him.

I think if you look back my excuse was I'd discovered Mass Effect for the xbox at that time, and since I turned up town I wasn't lying to defend my scummy behaviour :3 I'm usually rather active as town, again meta defense but you brought it up.

Shotty to the Body - No content from Shotty. He keeps asking for people to post cases and observations while skating by without posting his own. Only attack was on a lurker. Shotty's my #1 suspect thus far.

I can seriously endorse this after getting Corps outlook on the posts hes made so far. Qwints is more neutral in my eyes due to the fact that he had slipped away for so long but I think I was some recent posts from him while scrolling up this thread. (to be fair) Like how your two scumspects are two of the three scumspects I have, making me feel I grasp the direction this games going in well.

@Qwints, you've been gone for a while but I assume you've read over the new content in this thread. Anything stand out to you that should get some attention?

@Falko, a point has been made that you havent done any scumhunting yet. Perhaps you should take up some initiative and pull your own weight? Tell us who your main suspects are, dont build up a case on someone because theyre the main suspects for town. You should have your own opinion by now like.

Apparently, the main suspects, by now are Gadget and shotty ... but I can not see so much scumminess from they...I'll reread both of them, and hopefully build a case

[Shotty to the Body]

Okay time to do some explaining I suppose, sorry for the weird hours for yet another post. So far in Day 1 I've been paying more attention to the way people play/post then attacking specific people. I've made a case against lurking because I think letting someone go under the radar is a bad idea, so calling me out is legit and I'll try to explain my 'fluff.' The posts you quoted Corp, while not containing a whole ton of scum hunting, I thought included some very useful advice for town to follow especially since a lot of us are new. Don't bandwagon, don't quick lynch, making sure a lynch gives us something to work with the next day. That's been the gist of my play so far, trying to make sure we learn the most about each other and can study the day more closely for clues after we lynch. The longer the day is, the more inconsistencies there will be to see from scum in my opinion. I haven't made any strong accusations because I don't have a strong read on everyone, especially with two replaces. I commented on the cases that were made, to give an idea of what I thought about it at the time. I didn't post a case because I didn't have one to post.

I'm planning on doing rereading over the weekend and will be posting more thoughts then and hopefully a PBPA then. Also welcome Papa Zito. Seeing as there's been a swap and activity, joyous activity.

Unvote

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

qwints - 1 (falkomagno)

GadgetArcrep - 1 (Cyren)
Shotty to the Body - 1 (The Corporation)

Not Voting - 6 (GadgetArcrep, Giskard, Papa Zito, PhilyEc, qwints, Shotty to the Body)

5 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Saturday, May 30th (Eastern, GMT - 4).

[Papa Zito]

First, a warning about something that may irritate you guys: I sometimes post two or three times in a row in order to keep discussions separate. Also helps prevent walls of text somewhat.

Well, I think that we have something now to start a real pressure in someone....My vote was for qwirt, but Now I noticed that people who has seen later post, can see things that maybe the people who has been from the very beginning hasn't noticed of.

Apparently, the main suspects, by now are:

Gadget and shotty ...

but I can not see so much scumminess from they...I'll reread both of them, and hopefully build a case

See, this is a perfect example of what I was saying in my little summary post above. There's no content here, and you're basically saying "The town seems to be leaning towards

x

, so I will follow whatever the town does" which is exactly what scum try to do - blend in.

If you don't see them as scum, then why try to build a case? Why not determine who

your

top suspect is and build a case on that person?

[Papa Zito]

PhilyEc - Philey has been dishing it out and taking it. There's not a whole lot for me to add here except for one observation. Since he brought up the meta defense - Phily was in my prior game and was lynched Day 1 mainly for lurking. He was vanilla townie in that game. I'm unsure on him.

I think if you look back my excuse was I'd discovered Mass Effect for the xbox at that time, and since I turned up town I wasn't lying to defend my scummy behaviour :3 I'm usually rather active as town, again meta defense but you brought it up.

I only brought it up because you did. But this isn't something I'm going to pursue because I don't really buy the whole meta thing anyway. I just thought I'd throw it out there since a few people seem to take meta seriously.

[Papa Zito]

Okay time to do some explaining I suppose, sorry for the weird hours for yet another post. [1]So far in Day 1 I've been paying more attention to the way people play/post then attacking specific people. [2]I've made a case against lurking because I think letting someone go under the radar is a bad idea, so calling me out is legit and I'll try to explain my 'fluff.' [3]The posts you quoted Corp, while not containing a whole ton of scum hunting, I thought included some very useful advice for town to follow especially since a lot of us are new. Don't bandwagon, don't quick lynch, making sure a lynch gives us something to work with the next day. That's been the gist of my play so far, trying to make sure we learn the most about each other and can study the day [4]more closely for clues after we lynch. The longer the day is, the more inconsistencies there will be to see from scum in my opinion. [5]I haven't made any strong accusations because I don't have a strong read on everyone, especially with two replaces. I commented on the cases that were made, to give an idea of what I thought about it at the time. I didn't post a case because I didn't have one to post.

I'm planning on doing rereading over the weekend and will be posting more thoughts then and hopefully a PBPA then. Also welcome Papa Zito. Seeing as there's been a swap and activity, joyous activity.

Unvote

I'm not buying this, for a few reasons. Note: I've added some numbers within his post to make following this easier.

1. Getting a feel for how people post and scumhunting are not mutually exclusive activities. You can do both. Sitting back and watching doesn't help the town.

2. I'll give you several reasons why your lurker case was bad. First, lurking in and of itself isn't a scumtell. There are reasons for townies to lurk just as much as mafia. Second, we're in the early stages of Day 1, making it much too early to start campaigning to lynch lurkers. You need to see a pattern of lurking before you go after someone for it. Last, lurkers are statistically more likely to be town than scum. You have a much better shot at hitting scum if you try to hunt them out vs. lynching random inactives. What I think was really happening here was you were going after an easy target, one which you could try to explain away later by just saying "lynch all lurkers, lol".

3. Useful advice.

Papa Zito's List of Commonly Used Abbreviations

EBWOP: Edit By Way Of Post. Because actual editing of posts in mafia games is forbidden on MafiaScum, the only way to "edit" a post which contains an error is to make another post containing the correction.
FOS: Finger of Suspicion. Used to indicate that you find someone suspicious but are not going to vote them, for whatever reason (often because you are voting for someone even more suspicious)
L-#: Number of votes required before someone is lynched. So L-1 means 1 vote before lynch, L-2 means two votes, etc.
LYLO: Lynch-Or-Lose = A stage in the game where the town must lynch scum or they will lose the game
PBPA: I've seen this used as Point By Point Analysis, Post By Post Analysis, or Player By Player Analysis. You'll have to figure out which one it is by context.
RVS: Random Voting Stage. Most Mafia games start with a phase where people vote for silly reasons, until someone slips up or makes a legitimate accusation.
V/LA: Vacation/Limited Access. Lets others (especially the Moderator) know that a player won't be checking on the game for more than a few days.
WIFOM: Wine in Front of Me. From a famous scene in the Princess Bride involving poisoned cups of wine. See here: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... ront_of_Me

That's helpful, right? Several people have asked what various acronyms mean in this game already. But has posting this list gotten us any closer to finding mafia? No.

4. If you're not willing to hunt out the scum, how is a lynch going to happen? Only by other players taking a stand and coming to a conclusion; a conclusion you'll either be able to ride along with or just ignore so that you aren't on a vote list Day 1.

5. It's Day 1, I'd be amazed if you had a strong read on someone yet. The only way you'd have a strong read on someone at this stage is if they posted just tons and tons of content or if they majorly screwed up. You have to work with what's available and come to some kind of conclusion.

Hey look, a case.

Vote: Shotty to the Body

And thanks for the welcome.

[Giskard]

Okay, I am back.

Well, I think that we have something now to start a real pressure in someone....My vote was for qwirt, but Now I noticed that people who has seen later post, can see things that maybe the people who has been from the very beginning hasn't noticed of.

Apparently, the main suspects, by now are:

Gadget and shotty ...

but I can not see so much scumminess from they...I'll reread both of them, and hopefully build a case

See, this is a perfect example of what I was saying in my little summary post above. There's no content here, and you're basically saying "The town seems to be leaning towards

x

, so I will follow whatever the town does" which is exactly what scum try to do - blend in.

If you don't see them as scum, then why try to build a case? Why not determine who

your

top suspect is and build a case on that person?

I can't believe that you are the first person to point this out. I read this post by Corp

I really challange the town to take a read through Shotty's 10+ posts in the thread and ask 'Are these really helping us lynch scum?'. I'd be intrested on other thoughts because it is possible I'm reading too much into this and it could be his style. To that end I'd like to hear from Shotty.

And it made me think about Shotty. But, it made me think more about falko. Here is a PBPA of falko's activity:

11. Random Vote
20. The much debated "just advice me when the RVS stops, and the serious voting start" post
37.

ok...let put some pressure right now...since it's early and there is not real reasons to put in danger anybody...but, the explanation of qwints doesn't be enought...

unvote, Fos qwints

This post is essentially the same as the ones that the case against Shotty is being built upon.
51. Responds to some questions and votes for quints for vague reasons. This was (at the time) the third vote for quints and I seem to recall reading somewhere that the third person on a bandwagon is likely mafia.
64. Responds to questions regarding post 20. Clarifies that he voted because quints is "creating confusion" although I did not find anything confusing about quints accusations.
78. More defense of post 20.
93.

yeah...I saw meta...metagame and others like that, and I'm curious.

Talking about the game. I think that we have to clarify who are lurking and who is away for legitimate reasons

Not much of value in this post.
111. Comments about the lack of activity by Toledo and Cornelius.
125.

What do you mean lack of activity...I'm been as active as I can, and I've done at least 2 post in any page...

but, to be honest, right now I can not suspect strongly about noone, I think that, if somebody ahs noticed some argument fissure, we can go deeper in that way. I didn't see anythig so suspicious lately

Another post with no real content.
141. Comments about qwints absence.
148. Saying goodbye to Toledo.
159.

well, it seems like we are stuck...the person with most votes has 1 grwat votes. I think tha scum is doing well since we don't have someone to attack...

Yet another post with no real content.
180. Quoted above.

The only posts that he made that have any real content are 51 and 64. Both or these posts give what seem to me has terrible reasons for putting quints at L-2 and that has me very suspicious of falko.

[falkomagno]

I got what you saying. That I'm not compromising my word,and I've been acting as the town shows, with no scumhunt by now. That's true. Usually, I react when someone attacks me for something, and suddenly I'm in the focus of the game, But in this game, it seems like we're been so polite by now.

To start, this is my opinion of some players in the game:

Papa Zito (replaced Cornellius Alfredo)
Has been pro-town with is analisys, but it's true that he comes with innocence halo, since he is a replacement


falkomagno
Didn't compromise his word so far. Reckless to accuse people

Giskard
He just vanished for times. nothing so strong

PhilyEc
Is a fierce player, who says loud what he thinks.

qwints *
He say that he was serious, when he wasn't. Confusing


The Corporation
Has point some valid issues, but hasn't accomplish a real pressure in anybody

Cyren (replaced Toledo88)
starts so good, but I didn't see her lately


That just let shotty and gadjet, but , to be honest, I didn't re-read their post. I'm been busy lately.

To me, until I read their post, my main suspicious is qwert.

[Cyren]

@ Corporation - "I would've said 'If I'm not around take a look at...' but words like that from people who aren't L-1 sound kind of tried hard scum to me" I honestly didn't understand the "sound kind of tried hard scum to me" but I understood what the over all meant. From your actions you didn't seem like you were trying to Lynch him but your words had.

what other things do you agree on? Disagree?

Post 167: - From what you've quoted he seems to be genuinely trying to get more people talking while simultaneously trying to get attention off of Phily... After posting that if Phily were scum one of the people not posting were probably scum too, then he pushes CA from then on. He doesn't really attack Phily so I don't think Shotty really believes that he is scum. So I'm now very confused about what might be going on in his head.


@Phily -

I think theres only random votes and votes on true scum to be made in a game. Putting a vote on someone isnt pressure in my eyes unless it pops them into L-1. You can unvote when you arent sure someones scum anymore. Votes to apply 'pressure' is BS when its something like L-5.

One vote can lead to L-1 even on a BS reason.

When you say, "Vote on true scum" does that mean the person you find the most anti-town at the time?

It made more sense at the time, but yes I shouldnt defend him, I had misunderstood the situation. (Considering if Im going to have to repeat this anymore times)

This was to the chainsaw defense thing (I don't know how to do multiple quotes in one yet, haven't played around with this) but the chainsaw defense is you attacking another player for attacking a diff one. Even if you don't say anything to defend that player your only reasoning for suspicion of Qwints was that he voted Falko.

Again okay? Are you trying to make a case here now or just being snidey? o-o My playstyle still needs improvement since I always want to get involved in things, strangely enough I do the opposite as scum. I think this is why I turned to meta when people didnt like how I 'defended' Falko.

Neither. The playstyle thing was just a reasonable suggestion on my part. From what I've read in other games you probably would have been voted off in others for what happened here. Just trying to be helpful really.

I'm not that used to having to defend myself when I get town roles to be honest. I still need to get better at that, but I get quite paranoid over the roles of those questioning me. The interogators could be opportunistic scum, town with poor scumdars or logical town merely ironing things out. Makes me react as how you saw.

I think that is what makes the town role harder IMO. No information makes you paranoid and attack your own kind. I'm going to re-read the thread.

Greek men thrive on emotion <3

Damn, should have married a greek lol

@Gadget - Really, that's all you're going to say? Could you PLEASE explain your post that I quoted and said I didn't understand. Saying that taking Phily's warnings and leaving him alone may leave us with a townie or good scum? Sounds like you don't believe he is a townie and suggesting that everyone leave him alone with no reason to is a little scummy. As far as I know, mafia wouldn't kill each other at night. So being mafia WOULD save him from a NK.

Also you don't mention the second paragraph at all, you know where I mention my reasoning for voting you. Again, not sharing your thoughts and information, and now I'll throw in ignoring posts is not helpful.

All I really read was the fact that I was voted for.

/shakes head in disappointment.

@Falko I'm becoming more suspicious of you. I KNOW I asked you questions that it seems you've blatantly ignored. I doubt you've been reading thoroughly (sp?) through the thread either. which means you can't scum hunt properly either. Read the whole thread, don't just read up on the suspects. IMO that is just as bad as scum jumping on the bandwagon.

Even your attempt at a PBPA (I guess I started a trend?) is very lack in information or self opinions.

Also, who or what is qwert?

@ Qwints I've come to the conclusion that I'm an aggressive player :/ In this game at least.

[PhilyEc]

Post 167: - From what you've quoted he seems to be genuinely trying to get more people talking while simultaneously trying to get attention off of Phily...

I think I just happened to be the one interacting with Shotty at the time he was questioning me, I think it was the behaviour of Shotty that Corp was highlighting in 167. The entire post seemed to be about that afterall, not about clearing me.

@Phily -When you say, "Vote on true scum" does that mean the person you find the most anti-town at the time?

(Second time im typing this since my laptop overheated as I was typing)
Basically, a vote on true scum is a vote of mine on someone Im positive is scum. I really only vote for someone if they are obvscum after I've been satisfied with the way they've answered my questions. Anti-town behaviour doesnt mean the person is scum (due to existence of bad townies) but alot of it does gain attention and starts questioning. Anti-town gameplay can lead to gaining votes, yes. Is that clearer?

It made more sense at the time, but yes I shouldnt defend him, I had misunderstood the situation. (Considering if Im going to have to repeat this anymore times)

This was to the chainsaw defense thing (I don't know how to do multiple quotes in one yet, haven't played around with this) but the chainsaw defense is you attacking another player for attacking a diff one. Even if you don't say anything to defend that player your only reasoning for suspicion of Qwints was that he voted Falko.

Originally, my reason for voting Qwints was because he attacked someone who didnt want to make a random vote. It seemed extremely opportunist, like trying to point out the odd one out. Later I was alerted that Falko did indeed random vote but wanted to skip the RVS and get on with the real game (hopefullly right this time).

Again okay? Are you trying to make a case here now or just being snidey? o-o My playstyle still needs improvement since I always want to get involved in things, strangely enough I do the opposite as scum. I think this is why I turned to meta when people didnt like how I 'defended' Falko.

Neither. The playstyle thing was just a reasonable suggestion on my part. From what I've read in other games you probably would have been voted off in others for what happened here. Just trying to be helpful really.

Okay, thanks.

I'm not that used to having to defend myself when I get town roles to be honest. I still need to get better at that, but I get quite paranoid over the roles of those questioning me. The interogators could be opportunistic scum, town with poor scumdars or logical town merely ironing things out. Makes me react as how you saw.

I think that is what makes the town role harder IMO. No information makes you paranoid and attack your own kind. I'm going to re-read the thread.

Makes sense, I advise you look into Gadget's gameplay while you get the chance.

[PhilyEc]

Oh now im emotive and FIERCE >:]

[GadgetArcrep]

Low amout of time today, going to read up later today and post.

Consider this a BRB.

[Cyren]

I'm confused, why do you say,

Makes sense, I advise you look into Gadget's gameplay while you get the chance.

when he is already my main suspect and the person I voted for? Are you trying to say I should re-think it?

[PhilyEc]

I'm confused, why do you say,

Makes sense, I advise you look into Gadget's gameplay while you get the chance.

when he is already my main suspect and the person I voted for? Are you trying to say I should re-think it?

When I see a questioning post, I quote it, and in preview cut off the pieces not addressed to me. I didnt see what you said about Gadget but ill read now. I guess giving him particular attention during a re-read would make it biased though so nvm.

[GadgetArcrep]

Time to work through 2 days of posts...

Allrighty then.

Firstly, Disregarding Leaving/Replacement "Innocence Halos" as Falkomagno stated, Its true that people believe every time when someone leaves and another arrives, via replacement obviously, that they are automatically considered to be good.

It is posible for the pair of the newcomers to be both scum, as they can hide behind a big PBPA of everyone to claim they are town, Cyren, However is playing her posts more than Papa, in my opinion.

Also, Regards to Your Reply Cy. What I mean is he is throwing out the suggestion that we leave him alone, if we took that, we could be making one right move, or one wrong move, same goes for the other way, His pleas to be left alone were scummy sounding, yet there was a posibility he was down to begging for his freedom, lynching could yeild a scum result, given his overaggressiveness and his desperation, or he could be someone who just wants to say, to be honest, I suspect him of the former, sorry.

Gonna post the rest of this post later as I got sidetraced while writing this.

[PhilyEc]

@Falko, a point has been made that you havent done any scumhunting yet. Perhaps you should take up some initiative and pull your own weight? Tell us who your main suspects are, dont build up a case on someone because theyre the main suspects for town. You should have your own opinion by now like.

Apparently, the main suspects, by now are Gadget and shotty ... but I can not see so much scumminess from they...I'll reread both of them, and hopefully build a case

/sigh

[Papa Zito]

Firstly, Disregarding Leaving/Replacement "Innocence Halos" as Falkomagno stated, Its true that people believe every time when someone leaves and another arrives, via replacement obviously, that they are automatically considered to be good.

It is posible for the pair of the newcomers to be both scum, as they can hide behind a big PBPA of everyone to claim they are town, Cyren, However is playing her posts more than Papa, in my opinion.

So I agree that you can't just ignore what our predecessors did. Part of the burden of being a replacement is that you have to account for the actions of the one you replace. Cyren and I shouldn't be considered "innocent" just because we replaced in, so if you have an issue with something our previous selves said, feel free to question it.

It is possible that Cyren and I are both scum, yes. It is also possible that only one of us is, or that neither of us is. So this statement doesn't help anyone. What I would suggest is instead of saying we're "hiding" behind PBPA posts (which doesn't make sense to me, btw, because by making those posts we're both sticking our necks out) you instead analyze what we said and see if any of it strikes you funny. Mafia are free to make PBPAs just as much as townies are, but if you dig deep into them you may see some logical fallacy which would expose the poster for what he/she is. I welcome any such critique of my posts, since the discussion can only help the town.

One more thing - "Cyren, However is playing her posts more than Papa, in my opinion" - what does this mean?

[PhilyEc]

we're "hiding" behind PBPA posts (which doesn't make sense to me, btw, because by making those posts we're both sticking our necks out) you instead analyze what we said and see if any of it strikes you funny.

I agree with Gadget unforunately, the entire PBPA + Replacement puts you both into a safer position, I saw what you did as scum in that other game btw Papa, well played. You replaced into that one as well right?

Also if you're scum and prepare a PBPA, I'd expect you to try to be as accurate as any townie to avoid any immediate slip up. Its a null tell for me at the moment on you. Slightly negative since you've placed someone so early into the game.

[Papa Zito]

we're "hiding" behind PBPA posts (which doesn't make sense to me, btw, because by making those posts we're both sticking our necks out) you instead analyze what we said and see if any of it strikes you funny.

I agree with Gadget unforunately, the entire PBPA + Replacement puts you both into a safer position, I saw what you did as scum in that other game btw Papa, well played. You replaced into that one as well right?

Also if you're scum and prepare a PBPA, I'd expect you to try to be as accurate as any townie to avoid any immediate slip up. Its a null tell for me at the moment on you. Slightly negative since you've placed someone so early into the game.

I'll freely admit that in that other game (http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10973) I replaced in and did a PBPA right off the bat as scum. Since this is a meta attack, I'll provide a meta defense - I (try to) play exactly the same as both town and scum so that you can't tell which one I happen to be. Again, though, I'd ask you actually look at my arguments and judge those. Also, I have to question how the point in time I replace someone can possibly be viewed as a negative?