Lynch All Lurkers Mafia! GAME OVER

[Ether]

Top-of-the-page edition:

1 MafiaSSK (Empking)
1 Xylthixlm (populartajo)

7 Unvote (elvis_knits, image, Kinetic, MafiaSSK, ortolan, Stephoscope, Xylthixlm)

9 alive; 5 to lynch.

[elvis_knits]

vote tajo

[Xylthixlm]

Oh yeah, another question for tajo: What did Yos2 say when you PMed him to ask what result you'd get if you were roleblocked? Paraphrase.

[elvis_knits]

I am also still very suspicious of kinetic being so against paraphrasing mason conversations. :/

[MafiaSSK]

Xyl keeps getting to my questions first. And then switching from being scum and being town.

Oh yeah,

Fos Empking

for rediculously short explanation of the protects.

[elvis_knits]

SSK, I asked you before if you're scum. What's the answer?

[ortolan]

Well, then you ahve a doctor and 3 masons, are you going to listen me now? Even after Emp claimed you came out with "oh, look, this is so easy, Emp and Tajo are scum, lynchplox".

The thing is I really wasn't expecting someone to actually claim another power role at that point. The fact it comes from one of the most unconfirmed players is also scummy. tajo may well have asked Empking to claim a power-role to help mask his own fake-claim (which would be a bad move imo cause ironically it makes me more skeptical of each of their claims).

His claim also has bizarre similarities in minimalist phrasing to my fake cop claim in Past Ages Mafia, which he was in (he was going to suicide bomb me if I didn't claim):

Cop.

BSG was town

hohum is town

raider is town

compare to his:

Doctor - Rofl, Rofl, Elvis

Xyl, Claim.

The fact he wants neither image nor tajo lynched also screams scummy to me.

Empking 'n' tajo were late on the zwet wagon (6 and 7) and only after he became obv-scum by announcing his intentions to lurk. Assuming daytalking between the scum this bus becomes criminally easy.

1110 WIFOMs me.

They were 7 and 8 on the Malyss wagon, again next to each other.

Empking votes for Xtoxm in 1332 without explanation, tajo stays off the wagon.

Empking was fourth on DGB's wagon, again voting with no reasons given in 1452.

Empking conveniently isn't around to comment on the Mastin wagon or counter-claim/suspect his doc claim. I wasn't either (although I earlier voted antihero) but this is still a point to be considered.

2336 is his vote on Nuwen, again, no reasons whatsoever.

I'd be more comfortable lynching a claimed vanilla.

Why is this, so close to LYOL?

- Oh bam, I just realised the piece de resistance is why the hell didn't Empking protect tajo the claimed power role? I think we can lynch the scum now.

Empking first, then we can go from there.

Oh and on my re-read Xyl looks very town, as is elvis_knits- so it's pretty much these three (Empking, image, tajo) anyway. Even if one of the masons is scum at least two of them actually have to be scum.

So, Empking first, then tajo/image.

Vote: Empking

tajo: what do you think of Empking?

[Xylthixlm]

- Oh bam, I just realised the piece de resistance is why the hell didn't Empking protect tajo the claimed power role? I think we can lynch the scum now.

That's... a very good question. Why the heck didn't I think to ask that?

[Empking]

Xyl: I didmn't target him because people thought he was scum so I doubted he would be night killed.

Ort: So I'm scummy because I didn't give large reasoning in mass claim, that I wasn't on when Mastin claimed, that I voted DGB the day before so didn't think there was a need to repeat them and because I think false claiming a Post Restriction is scummy?

[ortolan]

Why did you protect roflcopter the first two nights then change to elvis?

[Empking]

As Rofl was less townie-looking compared to Elvis.

[Stephoscope]

ortolan: My gut just tells me that there aren't THAT many vanillas, and that one or more of the claimed vanillas are scum taking the easy fakeclaim.

Anyway, I'm going to be away for the next 48 hours or so. I have family coming in for my graduation (I have no idea why graduation is scheduled for a Thursday, but it is). I'm not trying any funny business--I will have no problem posting on Friday, but if I don't, lynch away.

[elvis_knits]

I could go for an empking lynch.

[populartajo]

Sorry guys, if my V/LA doesnt get better in the following two days, I'd likely ask for a replacement.

Dont worry yet.

Just dont lynch Empking.

[elvis_knits]

4. Xylthixlm Tue May 19, 2009 11:29 pm
5. image Tue May 19, 2009 12:33 am
8. MafiaSSK Tue May 19, 2009 6:23 pm
9. Empking Wed May 20, 2009 6:25 am
12. elvis_knits now
13. q21Kinetic Tue May 19, 2009 1:25 am
14. Stephoscope Wed May 20, 2009 10:15 am
15. populartajo Wed May 20, 2009 10:57 am
17. ortolan Wed May 20, 2009 6:14 am

Just noticing kinetic and image last post within 45 minutes of each other. So we have to be careful about not letting them pull anything funny where we can't lynch both of them if they both go over 72 hours.

[Empking]

Yes we can.

[Xylthixlm]

vote: Empking

[Stephoscope]

this post only serves to bump up my last post time a little. V/LA for the next 48 hours.

[image]

Sorry I didn't post the case I said I was going to last night, I was busier than I expected...

Going to catch up now, then do a reread and post my thoughts.

[image]

The switch of opinion from "Oh look tajo is the only claimed active power role" to "Oh look Emp claimed doc so he and tajo are scumbuddies" worries me; if tajo is suspicious for being the only claimed active power role, you can't say it makes him look more scummy when another power role claims. That's just silly.

---

I would like Empking, populartajo, and image to answer this question: Which of the other two on that list do you think is most likely to be scum?

Mu. I do not, at present, think that either is scum.

@Xyl: There are a few things that have happened this game that I feel haven't been addressed. If you will bear with me, I have a few questions I'd like answered. At the very beginning of the game, you voted tajo over zwet. Later on D1, you put him on your town list, without explaining why until much later, after you dropped him from the list. Why all the flip-flopping over tajo? What do you think his alignment is at present? Why?

In ISO 98, you give a scumlist of me, Antihero, and Malyss. This is the first time you mention Antihero. When later asked to justify why Antihero was on that list, you say it is because of his interactions with zwet and Empking. Why do his interactions with Empking matter? Empking was not on your scumlist, and you had not mentioned him either prior to this. If there was something fisy between Empking and AH, wouldn't that implicate both of them? What specifically made you think AH was scum

at that point

?

In ISO 106, Xyl, you say we should disregard DGB's analysis even if she flips town. Why? (For the record, DGB's most recent scum list at the time of the post is here.)

At the start of D2, ortolan inexplicably shows up on your scumlist, and yet you vote DGB who is

not

on your scumlist. Why? What are your current thoughts on ortolan? Why?

In ISO 358 you changed your gut read on SSK to not scum. Why?

Finally, yesterday, what made you change your position of "I don't think we should be lynching image or Nuwen," (ISO 325) to "I'm feeling decently confident that image and Nuwen are scum here"? You never gave a reason for voting Nuwen. Why did you? Why did you try to push people onto Nuwen's wagon simply because it was the largest when we were still a long time from deadline?

---

And, unfortunately, I wasn't around near the end of the day yesterday. Time to analyse the wagon on Nuwen. I'm unhappy that it went through when I wasn't around, so I didn't get a chance to say anything...

[/url]Anyway, I have nothing to share regarding my mason partners right now, but for me personally, I'm thinking Mastin wouldn't have gone for the 72-hour bonus if we all haven't been on to something.

Unvote
Vote: Nuwen

Why would Mastin sacrifice himself in a way that wouldn't make his alleged scum-buddy look any less scummy? This strikes me as bad, perhaps scummy, logic. Especially since the focus before hand was on me and Elvis, not Nuwen.

@Xyl: Why did you call for a hammer before Nuwen had a chance to claim, especially when she was promising more content? Even if you were 99% sure she was scum (and I don't see what would make you this sure) the extra content still helps in the 1% where she is town, and doesn't hurt anything if she is scum.

@ort: Why did you decide it was a good idea to hammer pre-claim, again once Nuwen had promised content and a claim? What changed from before, when you posted:

[/url]

Vote: image

I think he is scummier than Nuwen but I could be convinced otherwise, my suspicion of Nuwen is to a large extent based on the links between the two.

Why does it seem like a good idea to

hammer

someone

pre-claim

based off of ties to someone

who has not flipped

?

[MafiaSSK]

SSK, I asked you before if you're scum. What's the answer?

No.

[Xylthixlm]

@Xyl: There are a few things that have happened this game that I feel haven't been addressed. If you will bear with me, I have a few questions I'd like answered.

You don't need to be so polite you know

At the very beginning of the game, you voted tajo over zwet. Later on D1, you put him on your town list, without explaining why until much later, after you dropped him from the list. Why all the flip-flopping over tajo? What do you think his alignment is at present? Why?

I felt like his overall style of play was more town (that is, I had a gut read). However I skimmed one of his scum games and realized I don't really have a read on him. The stuff he's actually done has been bad for the town, and I'm inclined to trust roflcopter's read over my own.

In ISO 98, you give a scumlist of me, Antihero, and Malyss. This is the first time you mention Antihero. When later asked to justify why Antihero was on that list, you say it is because of his interactions with zwet and Empking. Why do his interactions with Empking matter? Empking was not on your scumlist, and you had not mentioned him either prior to this. If there was something fisy between Empking and AH, wouldn't that implicate both of them? What specifically made you think AH was scum

at that point

?

I don't remember. Something about his interactions with Empking was bothering me but I have no idea what it was. It wasn't predicated on Empking being scum though; I'm pretty sure I wasn't suspecting Empking at that point.

I think I was proved right on the interactions with zwet though.

In ISO 106, Xyl, you say we should disregard DGB's analysis even if she flips town. Why? (For the record, DGB's most recent scum list at the time of the post is here.)

Because DGB's scumhunting ability is ... erratic. I'd put more trust in throwing darts at a pineapple.

At the start of D2, ortolan inexplicably shows up on your scumlist, and yet you vote DGB who is

not

on your scumlist. Why? What are your current thoughts on ortolan? Why?

I have completely forgotten what my "total read" on DGB was before she went on her berserk self-destruct. I think it was something in this post, or maybe something from rereading the previous day. My memory for why I did stuff that happened 50 pages ago is not that great. Did you ask these questions earlier?

I'm currently leaning town on ortolan, but that's mostly because he seems to agree with me and elvis on who the scum are.

In ISO 358 you changed your gut read on SSK to not scum. Why?

Because as much as I hate to say it, MafiaSSK might play this badly as town.

Finally, yesterday, what made you change your position of "I don't think we should be lynching image or Nuwen," (ISO 325) to "I'm feeling decently confident that image and Nuwen are scum here"? You never gave a reason for voting Nuwen. Why did you? Why did you try to push people onto Nuwen's wagon simply because it was the largest when we were still a long time from deadline?

Answering the last question first, there's no reason to wait until you get close to deadline to lynch. If you think you know who's scum waiting just slows the game down and makes people get bored and forget what's happening.

As for why image and Nuwen, I did a reread on both of them and they came out looking scummy. In Nuwen's case I was also influenced by elvis and rofl; they're pretty good, and I thought/think they're town, so I decided to support their Nuwen wagon instead of going after image. By myself I would have preferred image.

---

And, unfortunately, I wasn't around near the end of the day yesterday. Time to analyse the wagon on Nuwen. I'm unhappy that it went through when I wasn't around, so I didn't get a chance to say anything...

This game goes fast. Of course, I only have your word that you weren't around.

[/url]Anyway, I have nothing to share regarding my mason partners right now, but for me personally, I'm thinking Mastin wouldn't have gone for the 72-hour bonus if we all haven't been on to something.

Unvote
Vote: Nuwen

Why would Mastin sacrifice himself in a way that wouldn't make his alleged scum-buddy look any less scummy? This strikes me as bad, perhaps scummy, logic. Especially since the focus before hand was on me and Elvis, not Nuwen.

Still parsing this.

@Xyl: Why did you call for a hammer before Nuwen had a chance to claim, especially when she was promising more content? Even if you were 99% sure she was scum (and I don't see what would make you this sure) the extra content still helps in the 1% where she is town, and doesn't hurt anything if she is scum.

I deny the "more content can't hurt" argument. I think there's a MD thread about it somewhere.

@ort: Why did you decide it was a good idea to hammer pre-claim, again once Nuwen had promised content and a claim? What changed from before, when you posted:

[/url]

Vote: image

I think he is scummier than Nuwen but I could be convinced otherwise, my suspicion of Nuwen is to a large extent based on the links between the two.

Why does it seem like a good idea to

hammer

someone

pre-claim

based off of ties to someone

who has not flipped

?

[populartajo]

Promisse to post tomorrow. I just got tired rerading another game that needed my presence.

[Kinetic]

Still here. Sorry, sick, posting to avoid lurk timer.

[ortolan]

The switch of opinion from "Oh look tajo is the only claimed active power role" to "Oh look Emp claimed doc so he and tajo are scumbuddies" worries me; if tajo is suspicious for being the only claimed active power role, you can't say it makes him look more scummy when another power role claims. That's just silly.

That is not the argument. The argument is that Empking's claim is itself scummy

Mu. I do not, at present, think that either is scum.

I very much dislike this trio insisting they all find one another town, never giving reasons.

@ort: Why did you decide it was a good idea to hammer pre-claim, again once Nuwen had promised content and a claim? What changed from before, when you posted:

[/url]

Vote: image

I think he is scummier than Nuwen but I could be convinced otherwise, my suspicion of Nuwen is to a large extent based on the links between the two.

Why does it seem like a good idea to

hammer

someone

pre-claim

based off of ties to someone

who has not flipped

?

It wasn't really a good idea, especially as she flipped town. However I was under pressure e.g. from Xyl who seemed to be suggesting I shouldn't be detracting from a healthy bandwagon by starting a new one. There was also the obvious point made that whatever Nuwen claimed she wasn't going to be believed- certainly if she'd claimed vanilla townie, which she was and which she would have; that wouldn't have stopped her lynch.

image: in 2569, I see a whole bunch of questions, mainly directed at Xyl, but not really a whiff of your suspicions. This is apart from you inexplicably (along with both tajo and Empking) suggesting the others in your posse are town without providing reasons. You should have strong suspects at this point in the game- odds are at least 1/3 of the currently living players are scum- I know I certainly have strong suspects. Who are yours? I will need at the very least 2 names with strong cases against them, and up to 4 names would be desirable. My thoughts are that there were probably five scum leaving us three left.

By myself I would have preferred image.

Really? That's not the impression I got- I preferred an image lynch at the time and you seemed to want me to vote Nuwen.