Open 148: Jungle Republic (Game over) before 800

[Sotty7]

Confirm

[Sotty7]

How to win:
Outnumber the mafia and werewolves.

GG. Town wins with 7 to 5.

Good work, guys. I'd like to nominate OhGodMyLife for MVP for that well-placed /confirm.

Winning a game without even posting. What a feat

Still I'm gonna go ahead and

Vote: Mastin

Leaving him swinging from the nearest tree is the only way to quell the bitter taste of defeat for him me thinks. I'm only too happy to help with that.

[Sotty7]

*Touches nose*

NOT SCUM

YOU DIDN'T TOUCH YOUR NOSE! YOU MUST BE SCUM!!

Wow, I'm getting good at this game.

[Sotty7]

Oh, yeah, that's the other reason fallen angel is scum, almost forgot; I dislike the mastin vote. Between ignoring the nose touching thing and voting for mastin, I like my fallen angel wagon.

I pretty much voted Mastin because of his self vote and juicy scum claim, it seems like he wanted attention so I gave him some. Felt like a fitting start to the RVS. Do I think he is scum? Right now I am leaning towards no. I have never had the pleasure (?) of playing with Mastin and when a player claims to be Zwet only times 10 it's enough to make me want to run away from the game crying my eyes out. But he does seem to be eagerly hunting scum right now. I can't hate on that

Mastin do you always vote yourself/claim scum/perform some other crazy gambit at the start of games?

I voted him for voting himself and because he freaking said he was scum! Then he recanted. Inconsistency is anti-town, unless it is for a good reason (IMO).

Seriously?

Giving newbie 763 a brief look over Fallen does seem to be handing Mastin completely differently. I think we could be on to something here.

Unvote, Vote: Fallen Angel

[Sotty7]

Take the alleged werewolf softclaim. How is that a claim at all? I mean in my day to day life, I encounter all kinds of people, and some of them make me worried about the world's future. That has nothing to do with this.

What exactly are you talking about here?

Seriously?

Giving newbie 763 a brief look over Fallen does seem to be handing Mastin completely differently. I think we could be on to something here.

Unvote, Vote: Fallen Angel

I can't really put my finger on it, but something about this vote is giving me bad vibes.

Try.

Unvote, Vote: Caboose

Gives his support to the fallen angel wagon by way of agreeing with a point made by Mastin, then turns around and calls bad vibes on Sotty7 for

voting for fallen angel

.

True. But it is possible to like a lynch but not like a certian vote on that wagon for one reason or another. Would be better if he but his worries into words rather than the old "bad vibes" fall back however.

Gives his support to the fallen angel wagon by way of agreeing with a point made by Mastin, then turns around and calls bad vibes on

Sotty7 for voting for fallen angel.

Also, the bolded part isn't true. The vote on fallen angel didn't matter to me. The entrance onto the wagon did (ie - A vote on fallen angel wasn't what I was calling Sotty7 down on, it was the akward way she did it).

How was it awkward?

There has got to be more then enough information that you should be able to cast a random vote.

Unvote, Vote CJMiller

You've clearly never played with CJ. I'm not an expect on town vs scum CJ, but he's always that stupid. Can't hold it against him since he was town and stupid lynched by it.

Also, you are trying to deflect on CJ.

I endorse this post.

CJ, why is it that the only thing you're concerned with is not looking scummy?

Because I'm trying to last until the end of the game.

Also, I will claim now.

I am a

seer

. Each night, I can investigate someone to find out if they are a human or a werewolf. Basically, I'm a flavor cop. I win when the town outnumbers the mafia and werewolves combined.

OMG

Why do you think claiming in a game where there is no protective roles will help you last until endgame?

Yeah, that's true. I was voting for you, then clicked Preview and saw CJ's claim. I guess I wasn't thinking too clearly and over-reacted. There's really no reason to vote for a seer claim at this point.

Unvote, Vote: OGML

CJ:

Why do you think it was a good idea to claim Seer?

Err wow...

The cynical side of me can't help but think this quick 180 has a lot to do with Yosarian's post 105. The logical side of me understands the CJ frustration.

A lot.

Mod: Is there any chance we can have a clearer vote count?

[Sotty7]

How are these signs of scum?

[Sotty7]

Can anyone explain the case on fallen angel? Was there even a case?

There was a case, if you were around you might have seen people post about it. In fact you unvoted your random vote when the wagon on FA was at it's peak. If you didn't see/agree with the case then, why didn't you mention it?

[Sotty7]

OGML seemed the most suspicious to me when I first voted him, was the most suspicious until the hammer, and remained the most suspicious when FA flipped. And thus far nothing has happened today that would change my mind about that.

What exactly is suspicious about him?

OK, for one, let's consider the reasons for votes on the fallen angel lynch.

Yosarian2 - Random Vote. Later explained by random reasons.
Mastin - Rolefishing?
Iamusername - not quite sure, looks a little random
Sotty7 - based on meta. Note that FA is fairly new has only completed two games.
OGML - No explanation in vote post. probably agreeing with earlier suspicions.
CJMiller - For being last to confirm and yelling NOT SCUM. Note that this was the same person who claimed seer under no pressure.
Caboose - Based on her "plan", which actually has good reasoning, but note that it was the hammer.

This case was weak, and with no deadline pressure (I think), we chose this simple lynch? I'm going to say that at least two of the people on this lynch are scum.

Again I ask, if you really felt this way, why didn't you bring this up

yesterday

? You came in and unvoted as FA was being wagoned and instead of even talking about him you throw some dirt on CJ. Looking back you didn't even mention FA at all yesterday almost like you were content to let us all lynch him without having to commit either way.

I also want to know who you think is scum Khamisa.

[Sotty7]

....Who do you think is scum?

[Sotty7]

I'm really confused. What exactly am I getting lynched for? Pointing out the reasonlessness and swiftness of the FA lynch?

The case against you is pretty clear actually. Your complete ignoring of the FA wagon despite posting about other matters while he was being run up. Only for you to come on today and practically lord his townie flip over us all by saying there wasn't much of a case. I don't buy your reasoning as to why you didn't comment yesterday. You had time and plenty of it, you chose to stay quiet because you were content to have him take the fall. Add to that, getting you to scum hunt today is like pulling teeth.

I'm willing to hammer, but I'll wait a little to see if Mastin comes back.

[Sotty7]

Spidey senses are tingling - Tarballs and Sotty as wolves. Calling it now.

Any reasoning why me and him?

My picks for the third mafia are Sotty7 and Caboose. It has to be one of them, but I'll need to reread to be totally sure.

Has to be?

You know something I don't?

Vote: Tar

Sotty7 isn't tremendously scummy, but Sotty is on my list primarily because she hasn't posted much. She posts about as much as Caboose, but I feel Caboose has made much better points in his posts than she has. So, much like Caboose:

@Sotty7: Why are you lurking so much in this game?

*sigh*

I guess I have been lurking, looking at my post count (I thought I wasn't). There is a reason but it's not game related so I'll just say my bad and take the heat. Consider this my “will do better post” As for Caboose making “much better points” than me I will call BS. Caboose pretty much came on yesterday and echoed everything that had already been said by me (things you gave me props for yesterday remember) and others before asking for a vote count.

I want to see what great points he gave that weren't just him regurgitating what had been said by others.

[Sotty7]

Tar's reaction to the seer claim was scummy/jumpy.

I am a

seer

. Each night, I can investigate someone to find out if they are a human or a werewolf. Basically, I'm a flavor cop. I win when the town outnumbers the mafia and werewolves combined.

Oh for god's sake, what was the idea in that? If your claim really is true, do you still expect to be around tomorrow? That's contradicting your goal to make it to the end of the game in the worst possible way.

Seriously, I don't know what to think about this. In the best case scenario, you're lying. In worst case scenario, you just doomed the whole town.

Unvote, Vote: CJMiller

CJ, claiming was dumb, thats why you're getting yelled at.

Tarballs, voting him for the claim is dumber by several orders of magnitude.

Yeah, that's true. I was voting for you, then clicked Preview and saw CJ's claim. I guess I wasn't thinking too clearly and over-reacted. There's really no reason to vote for a seer claim at this point.

Unvote, Vote: OGML

CJ:

Why do you think it was a good idea to claim Seer?

Bows to OGML instantly and unvotes and yet votes him with no reasoning.

What exactly is suspicious about him?

OGML wanted a quick FA lynch on day 1 and even fossed Mastin for "stalling the lynch".

I had to prod him to for him to say why he found OGML scummy.

Today he went right with Caboose and myself with no reasoning, not mentioning OGML as scummy at all. At this point I think he is a probable wolf

[Sotty7]

My picks for the third mafia are Sotty7 and Caboose. It has to be one of them, but I'll need to reread to be totally sure.

Has to be?

You know something I don't?

How could I know? And if I somehow miraculously did, would it make me scum? Your vote seems like an opportunistic hop on a wagon.

One vote a wagon does not make. Nice try though.

Anyways, my reason for suspecting the two of you was that you weren't on Khamisa's wagon yesterday, and I don't believe that the mafia would be very interested in intentional bussing when they possess no nightkill, but are still in danger of being nightkilled themselves. That might sound like WIFOM, but in my experience the danger of being nightkilled really does prevent bussing quite effectively.

You weren't on the Kham wagon either so all this applies to you too right?

I also suggest you go back and re-read the day. I was all over Kham and getting ready hammer once Mastin had checked in. You noted yourself that the mod got the vote count wrong, so how does even apply?

Tar's reaction to the seer claim was scummy/jumpy.

We dealed with that matter already. No need to bring it up again. Now it looks like you're trying to gather more "evidence" against me to justify your earlier, weakish vote.

It's evidence that you are a poss wolf so yes I am going to bring it up again. I know you would rather we ignored it, but no. Also, how exactly did we “deal” with it?

Also my vote is “weakish”? Now that's weak.

Funny how Caboose's vote is

almost like an exact replica

of Sotty's, after I pointed both of them out for being possible mafia.

So, you use that as retroactive evidence of me and Sotty being scum?

I still want to know the

real

reason for the

first

accusation.

Seconded.

[Sotty7]

Just popping in from my BlackBerry to mention that I am nearing 100% certainty on Yos2 being a bad guy of some flavor.

And, just like the last 3 times you said that, you're 100% wrong.

Just because he got it wrong the last three times, doesn't mean he is wrong this time.

That said, I would like some reasoning as to why OGML thinks this way.

[Sotty7]

You weren't on the Kham wagon either so all this applies to you too right?

Yes, I suppose it does. I am also a potential mafia, but from my point of view it's clear that I am not mafia.

Yeah, I think you are wolf. Not sure who I would peg as the last mafia.

It's evidence that you are a poss wolf so yes I am going to bring it up again. I know you would rather we ignored it, but no. Also, how exactly did we “deal” with it?

Also my vote is “weakish”? Now that's weak.

I gave an explanation why I voted for CJ, so I no longer feel the need to discuss about it.

And judging from your post 231, the only reason why you voted for me was because I "knew" that either you or Caboose is mafia. So yes, I would call that a weak reason.

Eh.. I can give you this. I should have posted my concerns about your reactions to the seer claim also factored into my vote. What I quoted was just enough to push me over the edge and vote you.

Is switching targets scummy?

Occasionally switching targets?
No.

Often switching targets?
Yes.
If my memory is correct, and you often have switched targets, then, yes, it is scummy.

Why is one scummy and not the other?

If your memory is correct? Why didn't you check first before making the statement?

Dunno about Yos, but you're already at least half-wrong. I'm alone, I have no buddies, I'm just a pro-town player who doesn't have a buddy. I *wish* I did. It'd be so fun, being the last scum alive.
Nope.
It'd be good for me to be a werewolf due to how close they are to winning.

Ha. I wish.

And, really.
I, as a werewolf...
Would kill players who I know to be good.
OGML, Yos, and Iamausername all fit that category--I've spectated some games they are in, know they're good, and have played games modded by them.

The rest of you...really, not that much.
Kore was not a night-kill I'd do. Kore was a suspect, and the Werewolves killed Kore, anyway.

Icky WIFOM.

Not sure what to make of Yos v Mastin. Seems to be meta v meta, not a fan of that at all. Interested in seeing Mastin's cases however.

[Sotty7]

You weren't on the Kham wagon either so all this applies to you too right?

Yes, I suppose it does. I am also a potential mafia, but from my point of view it's clear that I am not mafia.

Yeah, I think you are wolf. Not sure who I would peg as the last mafia.

This bothers me because you seem unconcerned with the other wolf. This means that either you know who the other wolf is OR you are bussing your partner so didn't think of it. This could be a slip, but I may be reading too much into it.

I don't see what you are trying to say. If anything Tar slipped. He said that it's clear he's not mafia and I agreed with him and said that I think he is a wolf. That was my whole point, that he slipped, almost gloating he is not the last of the scum team so that makes him a wolf. I then went on to say that "I don't know who I would peg as the last mafia" as a continuing thought about the mafia group that Tar brought up by stating "it's clear I'm not mafia".

You're reaching here.

[Sotty7]

Especally after the strong arguments OMGL made yesterday linking Kore to Khamisa, it seems pretty obvious why Kore was killed.

Strong arguments? If I remember right you weren't buying the idea Kore was scum yesterday.

OGML, why is is that you ALWAYS think I'm scum?

Anyway, I agree with you about Khamisa and tarballs are both looking scummy, and I'd be willing to go along with a lynch on either one. Kore, I don't really see the case on her.

Me showing utter disdain for CJMiller is not 'unnecessary' or an 'overreaction', because CJMiller FUCKING SUCKS. I hope he gets EATEN BY A SHARK.

I joined this game in the 11th slot out of 12 because I thought it had a really good player list. Then goddamn CJMiller took the last slot. That pissed me off. Then he claims, making it clear that the mafia gods have deigned to give the only power role town has to the world's greatest fuckwit. I think my irritation is understandable, in the circumstances.

The first post was definitely not unnecessary, because I know from experience that if CJMiller is not cajoled into playing the game, CJMiller WILL NOT play the game.

My "overreaction" stems from some very small and probably futile hope that CJMiller is actually capable of learning. If I am able to get across to him that claiming seer for no reason in an open game where it is known that no other power roles exist is really, really dumb, perhaps others will not have to deal with that stupidity in the future. It was not an overreaction, because any lesser reaction would certainly have no hope of getting that message through that neanderthall skull into the mushy peas that he calls a brain. It was the necessary amount of reaction.

(Here is my previous experience of CJMiller, FYI. He sucks and I am never going to play another game with him. If he signs up for a game I have I already signed up for, I will politely ask the mod to decline him entry because he sucks, and if the mod does not do so, I will drop out of the game myself.)

I completely and totally agree, backup and endorse everything said here. Times a million.

Okay, I have finally read though the back and forth and this is where I stand. I hate Mastin's play style soooo much. I hate the whole “I would never do this as scum!!” argument that centers around the Kore kill. Considering this is a game with two scum teams, you would think that the wolves would be trying to figure who the mafia are and killing them to give them a better chance of winning. It's WIFOM and nothing we can trust. I hate the whole attacking of the attackers BS, I hate the justification of posting in this manner by telling people never to suspect him. I find a lot of what he posts as defense to be pretty damn scummy.

As far as I am concerned this takes away from his creditability when it comes to people listening to his cases. From time to time I could see what he was trying to say about Yos, but then either Yos would come back with some logical explanation or Mastin would say something else that is complete crazy and I would be back to square one.

Mastin can you just list all the things you find scummy about Yos? Just a bullet point list so I can look back and see if I do agree with you or not. Your huge posts make hard for me to look back and see for myself without losing my train of thought/will/desire to finish your post.

This would be really helpful.

[Sotty7]

Ugh game stall.

Can we get some prods on caboose and OGML please? Even a vote count would be nice...

[Sotty7]

<--Is about to have an internet failure.

I'm loading both pages 12 and 13 to work on this game offline. I'll build up my defense of my actions, and further attack Yos2, with Iamausername as his buddy. (Seriously, people, get the message:

I don't care what's said. When you're in a game and a pro-town player is at L-1 for DAYS with people expressing a willingness to hammer, BOTH the scum are ALREADY on the bandwagon:
Yos2,
Iamausername,
and OGML.

Yos2's my #1, with Iamausername as his buddy. OGML is also a possibility, and I haven't ruled out what I saw as suspicious play from him.)

We're still a while from deadline; hammering a pro-town player before they build their case-->Mistake.

No. Just no.

It's nothing but excuses with you it seems. You held up this game for days and now you want us to wait even more? You ignored my call for a simple easy to follow case on Yos and you seem to be doing nothing but stalling the game.

Enough is enough, it's time for a change.

Vote: Mastin

[Sotty7]

[Sotty7]

Vote: Yosarian2

I am about 100% certain he's wolf.

So he's your partner? That's the only way you could be 100% sure. You also really don't give any solid reasons as to why he's scum outside of the lack of night kill.

As it stands right now all three of Tar, Yos and Caboose look pretty bad. In my opinion I think Tar is more likely to flip wolf. His reaction to the seer claim was jumpy and yesterday enjoyed pointing out that it's clear he wasn't mafia. Iaaun has pointed out a lot of inconsistencies with him and his stances too.

I have had a bad feeling about Yos for awhile, something I can't quantify and Caboose has been a non factor. I am more comfortable with a Tar lynch over the other two at this point.

Vote: Tarballs

[Sotty7]

Hm...why would tarballs fit that? Sotty, UN?

Like I said, check his post history. His last post in this game on D3 was also his last post on site until ~5 hours before the night ended.

Pretty much this.

Iaaun, why don't you see Yos as Tars possible partner?

[Sotty7]

In other news, I could also go with a Caboose lynch, since he's going to be lynched at some point anyway and this game is pretty much lost if he doesn't flip wolf.

Unvote, Vote: Caboose

That should be 3 votes on Caboose and 2 votes on me.

So your soul reason for dropping your 100% vote on Yos seems to because Caboose is going to be lynched at some point and to bump him above you in the vote tally.

Weak.

[Sotty7]

I feel like I let my scum team down some what with my play in this game. For that I'm sorry.

I was kinda lurking at the start because truthfully I was annoyed that the mod kept posting in the game, almost as if he was a player. Then he went ahead and lynched Kham before she reached the amounted needed. Just really left a bad taste in my mouth and made me unhappy.

Wulfy you played pretty well really. There was only one time I thought you might be the wolf and it wasn't strong enough to push. Congrats on the town for pulling this out though. It was a shame the game didn't quite live up to the player list potential in the end.