Open 143: Jungle Republic (Game Over!) before 787

[zwetschenwasser]

I would definitely lynch dust if scum didn't nk him.

Vote Count

zwetschenwasser 4 - Khamisa, dejkha, AshMC1984, Hewitt
AceMarksman 3 - Percy, Mixologist, Dust
AA23 1 - Gorckat

[AA23]

Hence I feel Hewitt is failing to say anything relevent - - he's voting you for making a statement that all of us are more or less on the same page with (the idea that Dust not being NK'd as very suspicious)

Yet between posts 300-302, he agreed with Ace that if Dust were alive tomorrow, he would want a CC.

Kind of a hypocrisy, not very sensible, and I feel like Hewitt is talking out of his hat so he can get out of the lurker stage.

Which he has yet to do for me.

Ace & Hewitt, not looking too hot.

[Dust]

Objection!

This was what I was worried about... I'm positive Zwet is scum. These last pages have given it away.

Why? Lining up a lynch for tomorrow, giving scum a surefire way to get me lynched, and his pursuit of a counterclaim. It all adds up to what I'd feared about werewolves trying to take advantage of my unique position.

So, spelled out, Zwet is scum because of this:

Weak entrance to my wagon on Ace's meta.
Pursuit of a counterclaim after my claim to verify my status as the Seer.
Insistence upon my wagon, even after the Seer claim, invalidating my lynch for today.
Insistence upon lynching me tomorrow, if I don't die tonight.

Well hm! Let's think! What's the scum going to do tonight when you've spelled out your policy? I don't know... How about leave me alive? So that they can then push my lynch the next day, effectively securing a Day 2 town kill.

Sure, AA, my guilt is implied by my survival, but that's a whole lot of WIFOM now, ain't it? If I survive the night, I won't settle for being lynched because of an obvious scum ploy. My goal is one or the other: force the scum to nightkill me, or let them think they can get away with leaving me alive. I will not, however, settle for being lynched regardless of how the day turns out, regardless of how the night turns out, which is what, I believe, Zwet is suggesting, as his posts indicate no desire to give me a fair hearing day 2.

The implications of Zwet's actions are monumental, and I'd stake my livelihood, if I survive the night, on the fact that Zwet is scum.

Ace, you still need to answer my questions, but you're significantly less interesting than Zwet now.

Unvote
Vote: Zwetschenwasser

Does anyone else view Zwet's actions the same way as I?

[zwetschenwasser]

For an uncountered seer you seem overly jumpy, dust.

[Dust]

I know Scum when I see them. You're Scum. Got anything to counter my assertions?

[zwetschenwasser]

Yes. They're all wrong.

[Dust]

Why?

If you can't provide a more than half-assed explanation, I will do everything in my power to see you lynched.

[AceMarksman]

I know Scum when I see them

does anyone else not get the irony of this statement? See, seer, get it?

/bad pun.

Almost done with my read.

[Mixologist]

Scumtells are not going to fall into your lap. I'm asking for your top three more for information purposes. If one of your top three flips the opposite way, I would like to see how interaction/non-interaction occurred between the two of you.

Also before I forget:

@Mod- I will be V/LA the 23rd and 24th. Expect little to no content.

[zwetschenwasser]

Can we expect spament?

[Percy]

And since it was two instructing statements, and there was no if/when, one can assume that it was a nervous scum communicating with a buddy. He jumped the gun (as logic holds it, since we agree the claim was innevitable and expected) - - jumped the gun as a nervous scum buddy, and reinforced that his pal should claim, whilst telling us not to challenge it.

I agree with AA that his read on Emp's post is a possibility. However, I don't think it's a strong one, and he appears to have withdrawn his suspicions.

Now he started analysing the wagon, and has now stopped, instead focussing on Emp. AA, do you find anyone else on the wagon suspicious now? You did devote a lot of time to looking at the possibilities, and appear to be dismissing it as unhelpful now.

Specifically, here is the wagon:

AshMC1984, Empking, AceMarksman, zwetschenwasser, AA23, Percy

Ash's vote was random. You're not going to express suspicion of yourself. You've withdrawn suspicion on Empking. Do you find zwet's, Ace's or my participation in the Dust wagon scummy?

My opinion: Ace's participation was solely due to meta that actually didn't ever happen. He lied. Zwet jumped on for terrible reasons. Both scummy.

Re: Ace:

3. He hates that the lack of a counterclaim is stoppijng him from knowing....."God, if only there was a CC, you know? I'd be able to lynch scum because I love town so much! OH the cross I bare!!!!!!!!!.......ps - nobody CC"

I picked this up too on my re-read. Ace is oozing scumjuice. He still hasn't answered the meta question.

I totally and completely disagree with town would claim it to delay their death and attract a NK. I would not claim seer if I were town and I wasn't.

If you're town and asked to claim and claim town, you will die. The scum will NK someone else, possibly mafia, possibly town, possibly real seer.
If you're town and claim Seer, you don't get lynched. Someone else gets lynched, who could be anyone. The scum will NK you.

I can see the reasons for claiming Seer in an effort to give the town another go at lynching scum, as well as ensuring the real Seer doesn't get NKed. Don't you?

Nice way to shrug off all suspicion of you, dust.

Did he not just claim seer. Do you want to lynch the seer today?

This was a scummy post from zwet, a good question from hewitt, and zwet's response was as hewitt said: exactly how scum would back out of that situation.

I agree wholeheartedly with Dust's opinion of zwet's play. Post 328 is scummy (still talking about not being CCed), 330 is anti-town and 334 is incomprehensible - wtf is "spament"?

[AA23]

Dust it occured to me that leaving you alive would be a tacic, however, you would have results from an investigation, no?

If you were alive tomorrow, and told us wo your investigation turned up scum/town - - I believe that after lynching you, it would not only prove the true identity of who you had a night read on, but we can link their allies and other villains based on the info

(to specify - - Day 2, Dust says "X" is town/scum - - Dust is lynched and flips either way thus informing us of the likely role of "X" - - we kill off "X" and see who interacted with him and how.

It's too risky for the villans to keep you alive, and I'm afraid to big a leap for us not to lynch you if you're alive tomorrow.

Circumstances are always unique though, so we will see how things unfold.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Zwet

Mainly about his "we should lynch Dust if he survives the night."

[Mixologist]

L-1? We all agree zwet is scummy? I'll do it.

unvote

vote zwet

[AA23]

Yeah, but if Dust DOES survive tonight, a lynch would be greatly considered.

We would run the risk of having a mislynch today - a towny killed tonights - and then us lynching someone Dust points to tomorrow? What if it's another towny and after NK2 we're left with 4 innocents dead?

Hence I don't think it's reason enough to L-1 him

And Mix - why jump ship so willy nilly? Because majority said so and this is quicker than trying to get Ace lynched? Post 338 is really disheartening, it seems like you're following the lynch and not the scum - I haven't seen you put any energy into the Zwet case (which is still pretty thin)

[Mixologist]

Zwet isn't going to contribute anything more than non-sensical one liners. Rolefishing for a counter-claim is about as good a D1 scumtell as we're going to get. I intend to see Ace lynched tomorrow. He is scum. However, now we won't have to shift through crap one-liners in the process. This was a good lynch. If you feel different, please feel free to express why. Otherwise, I have nothing else to say on the matter.

[dejkha]

Was that a lynch?

[Mixologist]

zwetschenwasser 4 - Khamisa, dejkha, AshMC1984, Hewitt,

Was the vote count at the top of the page. Dust, Empking, and I voted after that. Lynch.

[hewitt]

Isn't he saying that he would lynch Dust if the scum didn't NK him? Which would suggest Dust is scum and make perfect sense?

And you said you didn't understand the first paragraph - reread post 300-302

You're still not coming across very town like to me - you're unclear and inaccurate

Saying that totally sets up a good scumplay where Dust is the seer, we do not lynch him, scum kills someone else instead of him, and then we lynch our seer. How do you not understand that? I think it's very clear.

my opinions on the seer as I read: As long as there are two werewolves, Dust's claim shouldn't be CC'd as our one seer is more valuable then their lynches. After one is lynched, the seer then should CC (if dust is lying), netting us the two dangerous scum.

I agree with what you're saying mostly. Not quite sure if I agree with when you're proposing he counter-claims (if he's lying) but I don't think he/she should counter-claim now.

But I'm also wondering why there is soooo much attention on him lying at this point. I think most of us are in agreement that it shouldn't be counter-claimed so at this point assume that he's telling the truth and get over it for right now.

Hence I feel Hewitt is failing to say anything relevent - - he's voting you for making a statement that all of us are more or less on the same page with (the idea that Dust not being NK'd as very suspicious)

Yet between posts 300-302, he agreed with Ace that if Dust were alive tomorrow, he would want a CC.

Kind of a hypocrisy, not very sensible, and I feel like Hewitt is talking out of his hat so he can get out of the lurker stage.

Which he has yet to do for me.

Ace & Hewitt, not looking too hot.

Actually, I did not say that. Do not misrepresent me I did not say that I want a counter-claim tomorrow if he's not nightkilled tonight.

Never underestimate scumplay AA, playing the WIFOM and saying that leaving the seer alive is a risky move for scum is only speculation. It could end up being a brilliant move on their part. We'll see tonight I guess.

[zwetschenwasser]

Wahh.. Go town!

[AA23]

Mix - you want to lynch Zwet so you don't need to put up with one liners, and you still maintain Ace is scum? - Why would you move from the scum you're more sure of to a suspected one you're annoyed of?

And Hewitt- - you're still not coming across very clear - - you've got numerous posts and I can't truly say what you stand for or think on any matter - - only that you want to defend a scm move like keeping Dust alive as a "brilliant" move - - are you trying to talk yourself up so it works?

It sounds like an emotional scum trying to toot his own horn - -

If Dust were not the real seer, a CC isn't necessary - you're telling me the real seer is amongst us and has chosen to show NO interest in questioning him or persuing his lynch by other means?

[hewitt]

That's not at all what I'm doing AA. You and zwets have been setting this all up so that if Dust were not nightkilled tonight and Dust really is the seer then that's an easy lynch for you tomorrow. That's all assuming you're scum that is, and I'm going to assume that he's the seer.

[ThAdmiral]

Life is tough in the jungle.
And zwetschenwasser found this out the hard way.

Basically he was lynched.
He was a

townie

Fianl Vote Count

zwetschenwasser 7 - Khamisa, dejkha, AshMC1984, Hewitt, Dust, Empking, Mixologist
AceMarksman 1 - Percy
AA23 1 - Gorckat

Night will last for a couple of days or until night targets are sent in.

[ThAdmiral]

You wake up to find Dust torn apart.

He was indeed the

seer

.

Day 2 has begun.

With 10 alive it is 6 to lynch.

[AA23]

That's not at all what I'm doing AA.

You and zwets have been setting this all up so that if Dust were not nightkilled tonight and Dust really is the seer then that's an easy lynch for you tomorrow. That's all assuming you're scum that is, and I'm going to assume that he's the seer.

This is an outlandish statement to make before you simply agree with the very thing I was saying: I felt Dust was seer - if he were alive day 2, a lynch would be heavily considered - all circumstances are different

How is it you can be so lurkish for the majority of D1, so useless at the end of it, and still have contributed to a mislynch without anyone but me raising an eyebrow?

There's hell to pay on this one. I'm not impressed at ALL.

Zwet isn't going to contribute anything more than non-sensical one liners. Rolefishing for a counter-claim is about as good a D1 scumtell as we're going to get. I intend to see Ace lynched tomorrow. He is scum. However, now we won't have to shift through crap one-liners in the process. This was a good lynch. If you feel different, please feel free to express why. Otherwise, I have nothing else to say on the matter.

Mix - - you hammered, as this post suggests, based on UTILITY and the idea that NO CASE would be better than "Zwet fishing for a CC" - - why did this not occur to you when you were kicking and screaming about Ace?? Why would you only toss it out the window so QUICKLY and EASILY just because Zwet's picked up the most fast.

And on TOP of being a utility lynching hypocrite, on top of being OPPORTUNISTIC, you had the balls to suggest who our D2 lynch should be!

That reads NOTHING but scum to me.

I'm seriously concerned about YOU, and Dej - - I've played with him before, and he does NOT miss POOR and TERRIBLE logic such as what lead to this lynch unless it were DELIBERATE.

Mix, Dej, and Ace are what I regard as villains, however Ace is seperate from the other two, opposite, they want him dead.

Vote: Mixologist