The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Lamont_Cranston]

Amished is probably scum.

Is Pablo your scum buddy?? You would do better to bus him because this crap argument isn't going to fly.

[Amished]

Which "noobie quiz" are you referring to, AJ?

@Xtoxm: The game we were in together the longest was newbie 694, where I was the doc. That was also my first game, and I've completed 3 more, been NK'd/lynched in 4 more. The other one that we've had together you replaced in on Day two after I did. You thought I was a bit more townie than I was, and I ended up being lynched that day (as scum) and you were NK'd that night. Both cases you saw me in a non-D1 scenario, and in the first case, I was at my noobiest. Please, point out to me a solid D1 meta that you can really construe into being scummy.

@AJ: A *random* vig, especially D1 before any mislynches can occur (say 1/4th of town is scum/anti-town) is then therefore 3x as likely to give information that a person is protown (with a chance of hitting a pro-town powerrole), and then they'll no longer be available to help the town rather than hit a scum. Directed D1 vigs are another story, and I have no problem with those. Even a reasoned out day1vig without outside interference I have no problem with as long as the reasoning and vig appear to have pro-town motivations.

Further delving into the Chzo theme, everything is rather gruesome and brutal, with a lot of supernatural happening. Until I thought about the Blessed Order of Agonies (a rather *huge* part of the Chzo experience), I was leaning towards a volunteer taking the potion if they felt the risk was worth it. I would disagree with them vehemently, but as it was not my choice I could only argue against drinking it and not be happy with them taking it.

However, with the BOoA that I feel is likely to be in the game, the order would have knowledge of various Chzo related artifacts, and they could very well volunteer to drink something that they know the significance of just to fulfill part of their win condition, help the Evil in some way, or perhaps make it easier for them to recruit into their cult (all anti-town outcomes). All of these guesses are reasonable just based on knowing the games and the objective of the cult. I don't even consider this outguessing the mod, it's taking stuff from the theme that the game is based on, and applying it to a likely situation here. Therefore I'm now trying to give out what I think about the game, correlate that with what I know about the theme, and give caution because of what I do know about the theme.

Xtoxm's rush to grab/drink/take the decanter is what has me worried, as it does seem like a thinly veiled attempt to get something with known effects to him. Your (AJ's) posts seem to be more information oriented, so if you want to drink the liquid, you would probably be my top candidate as your posts and stance seem solely dependent on information, and not blind rushing into it, while I also find your stance on the liquid the most reasoned out compared to the others. Your stance seems to be against what I feel a BOoA stance would be, negating that. I still wouldn't want to drink the potion, but if you want to take the risk, I still disagree with you, but I have no power to stop you.

[Stephoscope]

Conversely, I think not wanting anyone to drink the drink is anti-town. It's usually a townie who gets lynched on day one. Throwing a wrench into things and making the game more interesting should lead to more things to analyze, more discussion, and more chances to find scum...and I think all of that is very much pro-town.

what is the point of the second sentence in this post?

The point is that, more often than not, scumhunting is unsuccessful before anything really happens in the game. On Day One, unless something like this comes up, all there is is talking...and it has been my experience that the player acting scummiest is usually just a townie playing poorly that everyone can justify lynching. I am looking past the arguments of what the drink may or may not do to any one player, and looking at the big picture of more effective scumhunting starting right now.

[Stephoscope]

I will not vote for anyone until either someone drinks the drink, or we come to a consensus that no one is going to drink the drink.

I still think we should force Lamont to chug it.

are you a lyncher stephoscope? cuz if you are i think this is just precious

I don't know exactly what you mean by this. I am certainly not a premature lyncher.

For the record, I'm really not looking to build any hostility between Lamont and myself. While I don't agree with him, I do understand his manner of thinking, and I did think he did a fair job of summarizing my point of view in his post a while back.

[Amished]

EBWOP:

Only scum want items going to waste.

I disagree. I feel the scum would have more of an inkling as to some of the effects of various artifacts/items around and would base their opinion off of that. If it was a good effect, they'd want to take it for themselves/their scumpartners. If it was a bad effect, they'd want the town to take it. If unknown, and then now taking into account my stance on how I think it's bad, I'd still want a townie to take it. I find none of these really match up with wanting an item to go to waste.

[Sironigous]

Xtoxm's rush to grab/drink/take the decanter is what has me worried
*snip*

Amished,
are you implying you think other people have inside information about the decanter or items in general?

---

Ok so..

I still really don't care who drinks the decanter...

---

I agree with Alaska.

this is pure speculation...
but what if it gave him an advantage? Say he drinks it, and then he can see everyone's roles...
Seeing as we don't know if he's scum or townie... how does that help?

I think its Hohum's decision whether to use it or not.

I say let him make the decision because then he alone is responsible for the outcome. If we sit around bickering about whether or not to use it, we're all still just pointing a finger at each other.

But then again, pointing the finger might help us all... so if we all agree to use it, I think Xtoxm should drink it, seeing as he volunteered.

wow

vote: Naomi

That's almost a complete relinquish of any responsibility for a misdeed. ;/

Vote: Naomi

[Lamont_Cranston]

I am looking past the arguments of what the drink may or may not do

to any one player, and looking at the big picture of more effective scumhunting starting right now.

This is the problem with advocating drinking the elixir here in this game. What affects one town player affects the entire town.

Looking past what the elixir is likely to do based on the evidence we DO have is ANTI-town. It is FAR more anti-town then simply bypassing an informational source. The potential results of the liquid when considered with the anti-town bias of the Mod and theme are more likely to hurt the town than help it.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Blindly saying "This is an informational source, we need the info regardless of what it does and anytone who opposes this is scum" is not helpful to the town.

Why advocate this way??

[Amished]

Xtoxm's rush to grab/drink/take the decanter is what has me worried
*snip*

Amished,
are you implying you think other people have inside information about the decanter or items in general?

Yes, themewise in the game that this is based off of, there's a religious cult (Blessed Order of Agonies) that exists for the sole purpose of bringing Chzo (a God of Pain from another dimension) to this world. They have extensive studies about Chzo and the artifacts surrounding bringing him to our world. They're a major part of the x days series that this is based on, and I see no reason why they wouldn't be included here. So I am saying that it's highly likely that they would have knowledge of any artifacts related to Chzo. While they might just be construed as the scum for the purposes of this game, they might also be a cult, giving us another worry.

Of course, this particular item might not have anything to do with Chzo and they're as much in the dark as we all are, but I still take more stock into having a faction or at least one player that knows what the items do.

[Amished]

Building on Lamont's 432: We don't even know if *we'll* get information out of it. It could be just for the player and they're forbidden to talk about it. Or give them something that will affect later actions, without being told. There's still no guarantee that we're getting any information out of somebody drinking this at all.

[Devestation]

gaaaah, dont post so much, Now I need to get a grip on whats happened >_<

[Pyromaniac]

I am upgrading my FoS into a

MAJOR FoS:Naomi

He appears to be our second best (IMO) lead.

[Pablo Molinero]

Your idea helps the mafia lynch power roles more easily. If you know who the regular townies than you know who isn't a power role. Also, if power roles claim that they are townies then that contradicts the point of you proposal. Thank you for pointing out that you volunteered, for this is evidence against you. Your proposal contradicts the volunteering system, this leads me to believe that the only reason why you volunteered is not look suspicious.

Hah, yeah, because speculation in my motivation is real accurate. Sorry, fellas, there is no underlying sinister motivation here, chalk it up to plain curiosity. There's an easy way to check this after all: call my "bluff". I'm wondering why Lamont is so adamant about the idea of it changing people's alignment. That's only one of many, many possibilities.

However, I do see your point in exposing the volunteering townies making it easier for mafia to pick off PRs, so it's obvious that we shouldn't have a whole lot of people raising their hands and saying "pick me!" A few have done it already, no need for any more.

Good call on the Brotherhood, Amished. I completely disregarded them since I'm more thinking this game in the 5 Days a Stranger sense (since it's in the mansion). We have to respect that possibility, though.

[Pyromaniac]

Your idea helps the mafia lynch power roles more easily. If you know who the regular townies than you know who isn't a power role. Also, if power roles claim that they are townies then that contradicts the point of you proposal. Thank you for pointing out that you volunteered, for this is evidence against you. Your proposal contradicts the volunteering system, this leads me to believe that the only reason why you volunteered is not look suspicious.

Hah, yeah, because speculation in my motivation is real accurate. Sorry, fellas, there is no underlying sinister motivation here, chalk it up to plain curiosity. There's an easy way to check this after all: call my "bluff". I'm wondering why Lamont is so adamant about the idea of it changing people's alignment. That's only one of many, many possibilities.

However, I do see your point in exposing the volunteering townies making it easier for mafia to pick off PRs, so it's obvious that we shouldn't have a whole lot of people raising their hands and saying "pick me!" A few have done it already, no need for any more.

So you are saying that you are contradicting yourself and then pointing it out? Not likely. Seems more like a Freudian slip. Also, how do we know that those are regular townies? They could be masons or power roles not wanting to look obvious. Or mafia.

[Amished]

Well, there were always only 6-9 (depending on your counting methods) people in the mansion, and for this game to have 19 (had 23 but 4 were cut out) people it almost has to have people from throughout the series.

[NuevaVida]

Naomi_Saotome wrote:
this is pure speculation...
but what if it gave him an advantage? Say he drinks it, and then he can see everyone's roles...
Seeing as we don't know if he's scum or townie... how does that help?

I think its Hohum's decision whether to use it or not.


Naomi_Saotome wrote:
I say let him make the decision because then he alone is responsible for the outcome. If we sit around bickering about whether or not to use it, we're all still just pointing a finger at each other.

But then again, pointing the finger might help us all... so if we all agree to use it, I think Xtoxm should drink it, seeing as he volunteered.

After reading thrugh this thread I have cometo the conclusion that Naomi is scum

Vote Naomi

[Devestation]

Okay, between Amished and Xtomx I am going to have to go with Amished, simply because of my hard line anti use thingy. Didnt yo mamma ever tell you to not drink anything that someone else gave to you... nobody knows what the mod mightve put in there

FoS Naomi

Based on post 440
I'd like to see him/her try to explain that before I vote.

[Pyromaniac]

He did in 387, however his answer is not exactly satisfactory to me (as I pointed out in 388, 389 or 390. What ever it is).

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm wondering why Lamont is so adamant about the idea of it changing people's alignment.

I am using just as one example of a result that is even worse for the town than an outright townie death.

We are Chzo manor! Its a deadly and ugly place. Its not a pro-town place.

[Amished]

(Naomi is a girl, I know her IRL)

[Lamont_Cranston]

i agree that we should do this randomly,

but if the randomly chosen person does not want to do it, then they don't have to.

ORLY?

Please explain to me how that is RANDOM??

Just be honest: Its a bad idea to drink this.

That is far better than the schizophrenic kind of thinking you just exhibited.

I find this statement to be incredibly scummy sounding.

FoS AJ

[NuevaVida]

THen noone would ever take it

FoS AJ

[Devestation]

Before you two go nuts, It might be nice to check that fact with the mod.

[Devestation]

and besides, at last check I didn't think it was the best idea to consume the thing AT ALL.

[Amished]

Devestation: I think what AJ was trying to say was that the top voted/"randomized" (even though it then wouldn't be randomized..) should have a chance to refuse. Of course, that doesn't make anything random, but I don't know if AJ ever really advocated for a random dispersal, just using it? I'm not sure right now and I don't know if I'm sober enough to check >_>