Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[SpyreX]

Mufasa:

Top three suspects with more than one parroted line on why. Go.

[Mufasa]

I don't have a list of 3 suspects right now spryex

[SpyreX]

I'd say I was surprised. But, that'd be a lie. A bald-faced one.

I want to see whats going on with this other issue before I get you hung.

If people are curious why we should hang mufasa, just use that display posts to show mufasas. Pick any one. That should be enough.

The turn around from "Guys why aren't we lynching fast KoC made all the actions go away." to "Guys the replacments MIGHT BE GUN SHOOTING HAPPY DEATH VIGS OHH LORD LYNCH FAST" yesterday may also qualify.

[Mufasa]

Hey so far spryex one of those was accurately called the other has yet to be seen

[Mr. Flay]

@Mr. Flay: I was referring to the unvoting of Isacc. I was under the impression when I started the post that I would be the first or second to unvote, but while I was typing up the post like 4 other people unvoted.

Okay thanks, that makes sense now.

This isn't a strong enough reason to vote for Mr.Flay. Post a case or I'll ask my partner to mess your vote up.

Not that I don't appreciate the support but - guh wha? Your partner can also mess with the votes?

I slept at the windmill, liar.

???

Being as the twilight actions all apparently got cancelled,

Vote: Slicey

- he appears to have in mind who is guilty before he reads (and has since page 22 or so). Plus, the desire to still have someone vig SpyreX yesterday seems forced, given that he didn't comment on him Day 1 when SpyreX still, you know, probably could channel.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Careful Flay, you're about to be accused of role-fishing again.

[Goatrevolt]

Is that rolefishing, flay?

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: Slicey

My guess is.. amateurish obedience of his scumpartner overlords.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Also, MoS- you realize you were the hammer vote (because of spyrex screwing the votes or whatever other reason), did that cause anything else to happen?

Why would you suggest that?

Alright well then stop the BS, if you do not know what I am talking about your not an Aes Sedai like I thought you were. Because of an ability, I know your either Aes Sedai or scum. Therefore your scum.

Vote: MoS

After some research, I believe I know what you are talking about. If you are referring to the fact that Aes Sedai could not hammer in the mini, what makes you so sure it applies in this game?

For the second oath, this means you cannot hammer a lynch unless you know that the person being voted is scum. If you attempt to, your vote will simply not count. I will not reveal that your vote didn't count, I just won't count it.

I refer you to a post made by Kinetic in this game:

Roles are currently being distributed. Please confirm by PM. When greater than 60% of players confirm the thread will be unlocked.

Despite the role PM in the above post voting is not an ability in this game. It was removed at a late stage of the development to avoid some negative ability interactions and I forgot to remove it from that role PM since that post was created before that change was finalized.

The post above will stay as it is, however please disregard the Vote ability. I believe I made sure to remove it from all role PMs before they were sent out, however if I missed it and that ability is in your role PM please ignore it. Thank you.

Voting is no longer an ability, and as such may not apply under the second oath. I would have to be Aes Sedai to know for sure, but this is the conclusion I have come to, regardless.

Secondly, if you think I could be Aes Sedai, why are you trying so hard to out my role?

Yes they were. Ability in question was used twilight 1, not 2. I just read MoS as Aes Sedai till now.

I did not use any active abilities during the first twilight.

Sajin, be sure to consider the possibility that a player might play intentionally dumb on a specific topic so as not to give themselves away as Aes Sedai.

I have been playing this game so as to allow people to think I *could* be Aes Sedai, if they were to inspect my posts for it. All non-Aes Sedai protown players should do their best to act like they could be Aes Sedai, so the scum cannot find the true Aes Sedai. It does not help the town for protown players to contradict themselves in a way that would reveal they are not Aes Sedai.

Why did you not try to investigate which of the two he was until just now?

Perhaps you should reread yesterday. I could not do anything without claiming, now I know I have to and will do so after MoS gives me a solid answer to a few questions.

I don't really see a need for you to claim. I believe if you double-check what you think you know, you'll see that pursuing this discussion any further is pointless, especially since I just nailed 2 unrelated scum in a row (which therefore could not both have been bussing). I believe the matter is best left dropped, although I am sad that you rashly decided to bring it up in the first place. A better plan of action would have been to ask your questions without directly stating any conclusions you think you have made about my role, because whether or not they are true, they draw unnecessary scum attention to me.

Also from Mos: Direct answer please, Where did you sleep twilight 1. Please note that when he "claimed" his location of silo, all he did was put himself into the list and relist everyone.

I slept at the Silo. It was a random assignment.

ABR, for a general overview of the case against Flay, see this post (a reply to Flay):

I didn't assume hasdgfas had a power role. It should be pretty obvious that I typed that part of my post before it was revealed that Isacc didn't kill SK.

You'd be a channeler because most of the scum in the books could channel. It's possible you're not, but I don't think the discussion is invalid just because the possibility exists. It's also *possible* you are protown, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss you being scum, either.

As far as why I think you're scum, I've been voting/FoSing you since day 1. I dropped my vote off you to go after Fabian, remember? Your "jester" actions seem completely scum-motivated, your actions regarding Fabian lead me to believe you're a possible scumbuddy of his (passive defense, early attack on a premise that is easily dropped, etc), and calling out SK as an Aes Sedai doesn't sit well with me (including the subsequent backtracking when you got called on it).

[Goatrevolt]

I'm caught up.

Sajin: You're fishing for info on whether or not MoS is AS. Earlier in the game you were trying to fish for whether or not ABR had broken AS oaths. Why are you so interested in whether people are AS or not? Seems scummy, no?

MoS: You mentioned at some point you believed Flay was a SK. With Isacc dead and SK, how does that affect your opinion of Flay?

Flay: Explain to me how lynching a jester is a pro-town action. You arriving at the conclusion that he's a jester is suspect enough, but I can't begin to fathom how lynching him would ever benefit the town.

Armlx: You're floating through the game throwing your support behind popular wagons. Who are your top 3 suspects now, and why?

Kairyuu: Why do you keep announcing in thread who you plan on motivating? It gives off the distinct impression that you are more concerned with confirming yourself and your role than you are with using your role to the benefit of the town. Can you explain your "motivation" here?

Kison: Can you explain your vote?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't see any reason why we can't have more than one SK, especially in a game this size, but I can see logic behind Flay being Fabian's scumbuddy, too.

[armlx]

V/LA this weekend starting tomorrow. Not sure exactly which yet, but probably the former.

Goat: Flay, Slicey maybe, rando lurker would be my top 3. I've got some good town reads on people, but that's about it.

[Goatrevolt]

Goat: Flay, Slicey maybe, rando lurker would be my top 3. I've got some good town reads on people, but that's about it.

Reasoning on those 2?

[Yosarian2]

Page 4: Now Mr. Flay is trying to say he didn't actually mean that he thought Shadow Knight was Aes Sedi, and it was sarcasm. I have two problems with this. First of all, SK actually was Aes Sedi, and he kind of looked like an Aes Sedi in those early posts, so I don't think "sarcasm" really makes sense here. And secondly, "sarcasm" or not, it still kind of looks like fishing, in that if you were a scum trying to find out Shadow Knight's role, his reaction to a comment like that might help you, no matter if you were being sarcastic or not.

FOS:Mr. Flay

This isn't a strong enough reason to vote for Mr.Flay. Post a case or I'll ask my partner to mess your vote up.

Huh? Who is this post directed at? I'm not voting Mr. Flay right now. MOS is, though.

[julienvonwolfe]

I'm trying to put more time into this game now, even though study continues unabated.

Vote: Mufasa

I don't have a list of 3 suspects right now spryex

Mufasa is basically saying that they can't be bothered playing. Pathetic, and worthy of a lynch.


As for Slicey: I can understand this wagon, but at least he's actually doing something (or said that he would).

As for Kairyuu, I think his attack on me is

horrible

but I don't feel it as a scum tell.

This quote strikes me as odd, though. It might be that they're scumbuddies together.

[Faraday]

Does Mufasa always play like this? Like not paying attention and being generally..unhelpful?

[armlx]

Goat: Flay, Slicey maybe, rando lurker would be my top 3. I've got some good town reads on people, but that's about it.

Reasoning on those 2?

Flay's posts feel like he's holding back, Slicey doesn't seem like he is saying much despite posting and is trying to push the freeroll kill on obv town SpyreX, rando lurker as there's too many and I don't really have a scum read on another active or semi-active.

[Mr. Flay]

Also, MoS- you realize you were the hammer vote (because of spyrex screwing the votes or whatever other reason), did that cause anything else to happen?

Why would you suggest that?

Kinetic: Can you fix the end-of-Day-Two vote count? I have no idea what Sajin's on about here but you said it was screwed up, but never edited it to fix.

Fixed with Mora's vote, which I must have missed in my first pass.

ABR, for a general overview of the case against Flay, see this post (a reply to Flay):

I didn't assume hasdgfas had a power role. It should be pretty obvious that I typed that part of my post before it was revealed that Isacc didn't kill SK.

You'd be a channeler because most of the scum in the books could channel. It's possible you're not, but I don't think the discussion is invalid just because the possibility exists. It's also *possible* you are protown, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss you being scum, either.

As far as why I think you're scum, I've been voting/FoSing you since day 1. I dropped my vote off you to go after Fabian, remember? Your "jester" actions seem completely scum-motivated, your actions regarding Fabian lead me to believe you're a possible scumbuddy of his (passive defense, early attack on a premise that is easily dropped, etc), and calling out SK as an Aes Sedai doesn't sit well with me (including the subsequent backtracking when you got called on it).

That's not a case. As for Fabian, I left the site Saturday the 2nd at 5:43 pm and Fabian self-destructed before I returned Monday morning. Check your timestamps. The only "defense" I can see is post 551:

Unless ABR comes out and counterclaims this, I think it's obvious that Fabian is the scum here. Why are you people not seeing this?

I'm sure you'll

discover

that I'm Fabian's scumbuddy because of this, but have you not considered that the ability to detect usage of the OP every time would be a little overpowered in a Deep South game? Just because it's not location-based doesn't mean there's not some limitation, like how closely the two have posted to each other, or something.

Flay: Explain to me how lynching a jester is a pro-town action. You arriving at the conclusion that he's a jester is suspect enough, but I can't begin to fathom how lynching him would ever benefit the town.

Seriously? I don't mind if people suspect me, but this tendency to vote without a reason is seriously irritating. WHY do people think lynching a Jester is "scum" or "third-party" behavior? Jesters distract from lynching scum. Day One especially, eliminating one would be useful for the rest of the game. If you think there is a Jester in a game, when IS the right time to kill them? The Mafia/SKs aren't going to do it! We've seen no evidence yet of a vigilante, and in any case, they'd have to believe my case to use up their action (and be able to kill third-party roles, if they're Aes Sedai).

I've backed off from thinking SpyreX is a Jester (though I haven't ruled it out), but I really cannot fathom what people think I SHOULD have done with that theory/knowledge. Everyone suspecting me on that score (and that seems to be the primary reason, for those giving reasons at all) should answer this immediately.

[Goatrevolt]

Seriously? I don't mind if people suspect me, but this tendency to vote without a reason is seriously irritating.

Was this directed at me? I'm not voting you.

WHY do people think lynching a Jester is "scum" or "third-party" behavior? Jesters distract from lynching scum. Day One especially, eliminating one would be useful for the rest of the game. If you think there is a Jester in a game, when IS the right time to kill them? The Mafia/SKs aren't going to do it! We've seen no evidence yet of a vigilante, and in any case, they'd have to believe my case to use up their action (and be able to kill third-party roles, if they're Aes Sedai).

I've backed off from thinking SpyreX is a Jester (though I haven't ruled it out), but I really cannot fathom what people think I SHOULD have done with that theory/knowledge. Everyone suspecting me on that score (and that seems to be the primary reason, for those giving reasons at all) should answer this immediately.

Can the town win while a jester is still alive? I was working under that impression, but it just hit me that I'm probably wrong about that.

If the town needs a jester dead to win, then I actually agree day 1 is a good time to get rid of one. If not, then I can't see any convincing reason to waste a lynch on one.

Still, how common are jesters? Common enough to be a legitimate consideration, or no?

[armlx]

Flay, mentioning a Jester brings up lynch WIFOM and therefore makes things even more confounding, which is scummy.

Flay, from what I remember, in the Newbie you replaced into with me, you were far more aggressive then here. Why?

[SpyreX]

Good lordy pay attention. Both SK's partner AND ABR's partner are white ajah and have some kind of Vote Manipulation. They said this, directly.

Anywho.

Lets take a quick look at mufasa.

His three suspects:

spyrex
There is no way I can believe that claim that he was gentled last night, I find him very shifty and even if he is sane right now I believe that he is a dangerous player/role. He most definitely is my top of suspicions

ABR
I found him suspicious day one still find him suspicious and I think his 766 post was a bit odd, why would he think he wouldn't survive the night?

Issac
Although my suspicion on him is much lower than the previous two, I believe that Issac's defense even though he has said he wasn't defending Fabian, it most certainly looked like he had a tie with Fabian, and after Fabian flipped scum it made Issac look even worse.

So, I'm #1 suspect AND ABR is #2. Yet, nor a vote on me and his vote on ABR is parroted based on "others caught him lying".

Also, in a previous post it was Me, Macavity and ABR. Macavity just vanished from the face of the earth. Sweet.

But, that doesn't get me as much as this business:

Ya everyone actions are supposedly void anyway from that persons power that died yesterday, so why wouldn't we go through with a lynch

Also how do we know that one of the two that are being replaced are not a vig and could easily pick off a townie if they were able to come back and pm an action.

In a span of 25 minutes it went from "We can push this lynch, because replacements don't matter since actions are void." to "We MUST push this lynch before the EVIL VIGS show up."

Get lynched.

Vote: Mufasa

[Kairyuu]

@Goatrevolt:

Kairyuu: Why do you keep announcing in thread who you plan on motivating? It gives off the distinct impression that you are more concerned with confirming yourself and your role than you are with using your role to the benefit of the town. Can you explain your "motivation" here?

It's just what I do. Once I have claimed my role I am as open as I possibly can be about it short of actually allowing the town to choose my target for me. I consider this to be pro-town, so my "motivation" is to allow the town as much info as I can give them, since claiming a power role puts a nice "kill me" sign on me for the scum.


@JVW:

This quote strikes me as odd, though. It might be that they're scumbuddies together.

You wanna give some possible reasoning for a scum motivator motivating someone who could have been a townie? I'm treating myself as practically confirmed town here based on my role, which was confirmed by the dead SK, who would have literally no reason to lie about it.

Also, my scum meta does

not

have me rabidly attacking my scumbuddies. I play a very conservative scum game, and avoid the bus if at all possible. You have evidence of this from the Mini.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Page 4: Now Mr. Flay is trying to say he didn't actually mean that he thought Shadow Knight was Aes Sedi, and it was sarcasm. I have two problems with this. First of all, SK actually was Aes Sedi, and he kind of looked like an Aes Sedi in those early posts, so I don't think "sarcasm" really makes sense here. And secondly, "sarcasm" or not, it still kind of looks like fishing, in that if you were a scum trying to find out Shadow Knight's role, his reaction to a comment like that might help you, no matter if you were being sarcastic or not.

FOS:Mr. Flay

This isn't a strong enough reason to vote for Mr.Flay. Post a case or I'll ask my partner to mess your vote up.

Huh? Who is this post directed at? I'm not voting Mr. Flay right now. MOS is, though.

Directed at MoS, since I was under the impression that he borrowed your reasoning to vote for Flay. I don't like the jester argument against Flay. Actually, I don't have a town read on Flay or anything, but I think the arguments or cases so far against him are bad.

[Kinetic]

Silence. It is... too quiet.

- From the Journal of Jardor Calol

The Nineteenth Vote Count

Vote Count

1. (1)
   Mr. Flay - Mastermind of Sin
   
2. (0) fuzzylightning -
   
3. (0) MacavityLock -
   
4. (0) Seraphim -
   
5. (0) julienvonwolfe -
   
6. (0) Benmage -
   
7. (0) Kairyuu -
   
8. (0) Tosarian2 -
   
9. (0) Albert B. Rampage -
   
10. (0) armlx -
    
11. (2)
    Slicey - Mr Flay, MrBuddyLee
    
12. (1)
    Mastermind of Sin - Sajin
    
13. (0) Goatrevolt -
    
14. (0) Moratorium -
    
15. (3)
    Mufasa - Kairyuu, julienvonwolfe, SpyreX
    
16. (0) SpyreX -
    
17. (0) Oozing Golfball -
    
18. (0) Faraday -
    
19. (1)
    Sajin - Kison
    
20. (0) MrBuddyLee -
    
21. (0) Kison -

Votes Required to Lynch:

11

Not Voting (13): fuzzylightning, MacavityLock, Seraphim, Benmage, Yosarian2, Albert B. Rampage, armlx, Slicey, Goatrevolt, Moratorium, Mufasa, OozingGolfball, Faraday

FoS Count

1. (0) Mr. Flay -
   
2. (0) fuzzylightning -
   
3. (0) MacavityLock -
   
4. (0) Seraphim -
   
5. (0) julienvonwolfe -
   
6. (0) Benmage -
   
7. (0) Kairyuu -
   
8. (0) Tosarian2 -
   
9. (0) Albert B. Rampage -
   
10. (0) armlx -
    
11. (0) Slicey -
    
12. (0) Mastermind of Sin -
    
13. (0) Goatrevolt -
    
14. (0) Moratorium -
    
15. (0) Mufasa -
    
16. (0) SpyreX -
    
17. (0) Oozing Golfball -
    
18. (0) Faraday -
    
19. (0) Sajin -
    
20. (0) MrBuddyLee -
    
21. (0) Kison -

Not FoSing (21): Mr. Flay, fuzzylightning, MacavityLock, Seraphim, julienvonwolfe, Benmage, Kairyuu, Yosarian2, Albert B. Rampage, armlx, Slicey, Mastermind of Sin, Goatrevolt, Moratorium, Mufasa, SpyreX, OozingGolfball, Faraday, Sajin, MBL, Kison

Current Deadline:

May 27, 2009 at ~11:59 PM EDT (GMT -4)

First Mod Deadline Review:

May 20, 2009 at ~11:59 PM EDT (GMT -4)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote: julienvonwolfe

Worse than Slicey and Mufasa

together

.

FOS: Kairyuu

Not done with you.